Paris 2024 Ceremonies - Verdict

[JMarkSnow2012]

8 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

the Sochi opening was a pastiche of what had worked best in previous years!

9 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Most are - hence why I’m a bit jaded with the tradional format.

I'd disagree with that to a fair extent. My theory is that each ceremony makes a conscious attempt to distinguish itself from its immediate predecessor: Athens' cool minimalism responding to Sydney's "people's story" and in turn triggering Beijing's artistic and aristocratic maximalism, followed by London's Shakespearean subaltern approach, then Rio's rejection of 2012's over-complexity ...

With Sochi, on the other hand, you can pretty much tie any given aspect, from the flying girl to the ballroom pillars, to some previous success.

[Sir Rols]

24 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

I'd disagree with that to a fair extent. My theory is that each ceremony makes a conscious attempt to distinguish itself from its immediate predecessor: Athens' cool minimalism responding to Sydney's "people's story" and in turn triggering Beijing's artistic and aristocratic maximalism, followed by London's Shakespearean subaltern approach, then Rio's rejection of 2012's over-complexity ...

With Sochi, on the other hand, you can pretty much tie any given aspect, from the flying girl to the ballroom pillars, to some previous success.

True to a point, of course each ceremonial tries to stramp its identity and bring its own artistic spin. But I’d argue they’re steps of evolution from the basic template first really introduced by Moscow. Barcelona advanced the stadium artistry and theatre, Athens advanced the iconic tableaux, Beijing ramped the spectacle to 11, and in a sense I think since Rio they’ve been treading water and consciously not trying to out-match the previous spectacle. Even Paris trying to shatter the mould still built on much (including the parts that worked best) from the template.

I just think Sochi got the balance between artistry, spectacle, levity and solemnity just right. Even though I’m all too  uncomfortably aware that it really was, as you put it so well above, “a magnificently creative work forever associated with a despicable motivation”.

Edited August 6, 2024 by Sir Rols

[sebastien1214]

49 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

That raises a point about Olympic Broadcasting Services: their approach to ceremonies does not favour ambition. Dimitris Papaioannou was unhappy with their work in 2004; in 2012 they were pretty much at war with the ceremonies team. They can do broad-brush work like 2008 and 2016, but the more detail they have to work with, the worse they perform.

You can add 2024 to the list. Thomas Jolly himself critcised the TV production

[Olympics2028]

https://www.politico.eu/article/anne-hildago-paris-mayor-olympics-opening-ceremony-critics/

Quote

PARIS — Anne Hidalgo is not holding back. When religious and political officials voiced outrage in response to the 2024 Paris Olympics opening ceremony, the International Olympic Committee chose diplomacy, apologizing to anyone who may have been offended.

Hidalgo, on the other hand, said, “**** the reactionaries, **** this far right, **** all of those who would like to lock us into a war of all against all,” in an interview with Le Monde published Tuesday, using the expletive in the original English.

Critics have targeted Hidalgo’s push for anti-car initiatives and greener urban policy in the French capital. Also the city’s plan to clean up the Seine in time for Olympic water sports was met with ridicule and mockery. The Seine cleanup has seen mixed results, with heavy rains affecting water quality. It was described as “marginally acceptable” at the most recent of three Olympic triathlon events held in the famed Parisian river.

 

[JMarkSnow2012]

8 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

in a sense I think since Rio they’ve been treading water and consciously not trying to out-match the previous spectacle

What Rio and Paris have in common is a refusal to use the track & field stadium for a summer opening ceremony. In Rio, the Maracana's much smaller field-of-play was a major factor in reducing the budget (and making life easy for the TV team who probably spent most of their working lives covering football matches- ditto in Sochi 2014, though that definitely did not reduce the budget). 2018, 2020/1 and 2022 were all held in the historic Sinosphere, so the relationship between them was always going to be unusual (albeit perhaps a little less unusual on the original plans for Tokyo).

[Anthony]

23 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

That raises a point about Olympic Broadcasting Services: their approach to ceremonies does not favour ambition. Dimitris Papaioannou was unhappy with their work in 2004; in 2012 they were pretty much at war with the ceremonies team. They can do broad-brush work like 2008 and 2016, but the more detail they have to work with, the worse they perform.

I quite liked the cinematography of Athens 2004. It was much better than Beijing, London (all though there is this one sweeping shot during Pandemonium that I LOVE) and Rio. Beijing 2022 stepped it up from Beijing 2008.

[baron-pierreIV]

On 8/6/2024 at 4:03 PM, JMarkSnow2012 said:

That raises a point about Olympic Broadcasting Services: their approach to ceremonies does not favour ambition. Dimitris Papaioannou was unhappy with their work in 2004; in 2012 they were pretty much at war with the ceremonies team. They can do broad-brush work like 2008 and 2016, but the more detail they have to work with, the worse they perform.

Nah.  I think what OBS is thinking -- whakindda **** is this amateur auteur trying to pull on us?    Some stupidly overly AMBITIOUS show when all we really need is a simple show to open the Games.  Don't blame the messenger.  

[Red Centaur]

2 hours ago, Anthony said:

I quite liked the cinematography of Athens 2004. It was much better than Beijing, London (all though there is this one sweeping shot during Pandemonium that I LOVE) and Rio. Beijing 2022 stepped it up from Beijing 2008.

I agree - what is interesting is how the design visualisations created by DP to explain the ceremony for presentations were replicated by the cameras on the night. 

[kevzz]

5 hours ago, Anthony said:

I quite liked the cinematography of Athens 2004. It was much better than Beijing, London (all though there is this one sweeping shot during Pandemonium that I LOVE) and Rio. Beijing 2022 stepped it up from Beijing 2008.

Athens had the best cinematography. Every camera shot is carefully considered, some of them are poetic even, capturing some scenes from an unexpected angle. It makes such a difference to how the OC came across on TV. 

I realised the camera work in the original Greek broadcast (if that’s what you called it) is much better than the NBC/ IOC ones that you find on the official IOC YouTube channel. I’m not sure why there are different versions of the broadcast but you can tell the Greek version is properly considered and I’m sure is the direction of Dimitris Papaianou himself. 

[baron-pierreIV]

2 hours ago, kevzz said:

I realised the camera work in the original Greek broadcast (if that’s what you called it) is much better than the NBC/ IOC ones that you find on the official IOC YouTube channel. I’m not sure why there are different versions of the broadcast but you can tell the Greek version is properly considered and I’m sure is the direction of Dimitris Papaianou himself. 

One version is supposedly in HDTV -- the very first time this was used; and the other (for where HDTV would not broadcast) was just regular TV.  That would account for the differing versions you speak of.  

[LOUIS]

3 hours ago, kevzz said:

I realised the camera work in the original Greek broadcast (if that’s what you called it) is much better than the NBC/ IOC ones that you find on the official IOC YouTube channel. I’m not sure why there are different versions of the broadcast but you can tell the Greek version is properly considered and I’m sure is the direction of Dimitris Papaianou himself. 

I can't find the complete greek version now. Indeed much better.

[JMarkSnow2012]

10 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

I think what OBS is thinking -- whakindda **** is this amateur auteur trying to pull on us?    Some stupidly overly AMBITIOUS show when all we really need is a simple show to open the Games.

 

6 hours ago, kevzz said:

I realised the camera work in the original Greek broadcast (if that’s what you called it) is much better than the NBC/ IOC ones that you find on the official IOC YouTube channel. I’m not sure why there are different versions of the broadcast but you can tell the Greek version is properly considered and I’m sure is the direction of Dimitris Papaianou himself. 

Papaioannou himself, interviewed for Greek newspaper Eleftheros Typos just before the Beijing 2008 opening ceremony, agreed with the Baron [incidentally, technically speaking I shouldn't have called the host broadcaster OBS, as they didn't formally take over until 2008, but 2004 had essentially the same arrangement, just under an Athens banner]:

Πώς σας φάνηκε η τηλεοπτική μετάδοση;
Ε, δεν μου άρεσε. Κοίταξε, αγωνιστήκαμε πολύ γι’ αυτό το αποτέλεσμα που είδε ο κόσμος. Ολη η αλήθεια είναι πως αν υπήρχε πραγματική διάθεση για συνεργασία στα τόσα χρόνια που προηγήθηκαν της τελετής -εμείς το ζητήσαμε, η τηλεσκηνοθεσία θα ήταν καλύτερη. Δεν έγινε όμως κάτι τέτοιο. Υπήρξε πρόθεση για συνεργασία μόνο και μόνο για να καθησυχαστεί η δική μου υστερία να είναι όλα από πριν σχεδιασμένα. Περισσότερο μου φέρθηκαν σαν να ήμουν ένας ημίτρελος σκηνοθέτης που απαιτεί, παρά συνεργάτης. Οταν στο τέλος είδαν ότι εννοούσα στα σοβαρά ότι θα παραγάγω αυτή την τελετή, κόψανε τον κώλο τους, αλλά δεν διέθεταν το πνεύμα να το κάνουν όπως έπρεπε. Πάντως, στη high definition έκδοση όπου ο σκηνοθέτης ήταν πιο συνεργάσιμος, τα πράγματα ήταν πολύ καλύτερα. Δυστυχώς, δεν βγήκε αυτό το αποτέλεσμα στις δικές μας τηλεοράσεις.

Google translation:

What did you think of the telecast?
Well, I didn't like it. Look, we fought hard for this result that people saw. The whole truth is that if there had been a real willingness to cooperate in the many years leading up to the ceremony - we asked for it, the TV direction would have been better. But nothing like that happened. There was an intention to collaborate just to appease my own hysteria that everything was pre-planned. I was treated more like a half-crazy demanding director than a collaborator. When they finally saw that I was serious about producing this ceremony, they cut their asses, but they didn't have the spirit to do it properly. However, in the high definition version where the director was more cooperative, things were much better. Unfortunately, this result did not appear on our televisions.

[JMarkSnow2012]

Just now, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Unfortunately, this result did not appear on our televisions.

Although technically the first fully-international broadcast of an HD Opening Ceremony, in practice the HD version was not seen in most countries.

[kevzz]

9 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

What did you think of the telecast?
Well, I didn't like it. Look, we fought hard for this result that people saw. The whole truth is that if there had been a real willingness to cooperate in the many years leading up to the ceremony - we asked for it, the TV direction would have been better. But nothing like that happened. There was an intention to collaborate just to appease my own hysteria that everything was pre-planned. I was treated more like a half-crazy demanding director than a collaborator. When they finally saw that I was serious about producing this ceremony, they cut their asses, but they didn't have the spirit to do it properly. However, in the high definition version where the director was more cooperative, things were much better. Unfortunately, this result did not appear on our televisions.

This is super interesting, I remembered watching his version on TV and it used to be on Youtube. The two scenes I remembered mostly about his version was the shot of the solo drummer from behind with his counterpart on the big screen right in front of him, and the cauldron lighting moment with the cauldron bowing in front. The NBC version is completely different and lack the poetry of those shots.

[JMarkSnow2012]

2 hours ago, kevzz said:

This is super interesting, I remembered watching his version on TV and it used to be on Youtube. The two scenes I remembered mostly about his version was the shot of the solo drummer from behind with his counterpart on the big screen right in front of him, and the cauldron lighting moment with the cauldron bowing in front. The NBC version is completely different and lack the poetry of those shots.

If only it were even half that simple! There are at least 4 versions of the 2004 opening ceremony, none of which is, strictly speaking, Papaioannou's.

Athens Olympic Broadcasting provided a standard definition version of the ceremony and a separate HD version. The latter seems to have required fully wired-in cameras, which therefore could not move around much (and couldn't be used on the blimp for aerial shots). NBC, as always, took those two feeds and messed around with them, using its own cameras where necessary. However, even NBC saw no reason to cut out or replace the SD shot of the drum dialogue- but the HD versions of that scene simply couldn't duplicate the SD perspective because there was no HD camera able to move to just the right position.

Papaioannou seems to have preferred the necessarily simpler output of the HD cameras, but I think all us ordinary viewers prefer the more versatile SD camerawork.

[baron-pierreIV]

13 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Although technically the first fully-international broadcast of an HD Opening Ceremony, in practice the HD version was not seen in most countries.

And even in the more advanced countries, only if you had an HD-TV set at home could it have been watched.  If you still had the old analog receivers, then that's the signal you got.  The "smart" TV sets were just coming into their own 20 years ago.  

[Ikarus360]

Won't even bother giving a veredict for whatever the hell was that.

Thomas spent all the money on his Seine show. These were the consequences.

Even Tokyo 2020+1 closing, done with massive restrictions because of the Covid pandemic, was x1000 better.

 

[sebastien1214]

I didn't like it.

I understand Jolly's intention to want to give meaning to his shows; I mean, in this closing ceremony he was trying to develop a whole reflection around the fact that the Olympic Games are fragile, that they can disappear etc etc, hence this dark atmosphere.

But it is sometimes not appropriate, and indeed we all expected a moment of celebration. Even more so in Paris since the Games were exceptional. Sometimes, it is better to be content with simple basic things: partying.

And, contrary to what some may think: I don't think it's a question of budget. The very structure of this ceremony caused these problems for me. In the closings, there are still several parts in the artistic segments. Here, there was only one of 45 minutes, and which was especially long.

However, this ceremony will not ruin my overall opinion of Paris 2024. In any case, even if it was great, life goes on and tomorrow we will be at a protest in France again for many things, we will start complaining about everything again. There are much worse things in life, right?

[Rob2012]

My memory for closing ceremonies is very poor, so it's not even as though I'm comparing it to what other cities have done.

But it was weird wasn't it? The space stuff felt for all the world like an opening ceremony sequence (and it was strangely engaging, if slow), the music choices were odd, the pacing was off again, there were sound feed issues throughout. But mostly, there wasn't much joy in it, it didn't feel like the closing party to such a fantastic Games that most would've wanted. Utterly perplexed.

I really hesitate to give it mark out of 10, because it feels like the student - Monsieur Jolly - was given the wrong exam paper. But I will, and it can't be higher than the 6 I gave the opening. So....4/10.

Oh well, I'm not one to watch these things back much.

Thankfully, the filling of Paris' Olympic sandwich was much, much tastier than the bread.

[FYI]

Quote

My memory for closing ceremonies is very poor, so it's not even as though I'm comparing it to what other cities have done.

Interesting. And it's exactly what I was trying to convey in the other thread.

[baron-pierreIV]

That Closing wouldn't even get Jolly into a Special Events/Ceremonies course on the internet!! 

[Rob2012]

6 minutes ago, FYI said:

Interesting. And it's exactly what I was trying to convey in the other thread.

Yeah, but many, many people here do remember these things and/or watch them back, so can make comparisons. I'm just not one of those people.

I tend to remember opening ceremonies much better.

[Sir Rols]

17 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

But mostly, there wasn't much joy in it, it didn't feel like the closing party to such a fantastic Games that most would've wanted. Utterly perplexed

That’s the thing, isn’t it. I can’t recall many closings vividly myself, but I do know that Sydney’s, London’s and Rio’s I heartily enjoyed because they were so joyously celebratory after parties. I can’t believe Paris would want o sign off such a wonderful games on such a downer.

17 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

I really hesitate to give it mark out of 10, because it feels like the student - Monsieur Jolly - was given the wrong exam paper. But I will, and it can't be higher than the 6 I gave the opening. So....4/10.

You’re generous - I’d give the closing a 2/10. Whereas I’d I think I’d give a point more than you for the opening.

12 minutes ago, FYI said:

Interesting. And it's exactly what I was trying to convey in the other thread.

I still don’t see how that negates having favourites. Of course you remember the ones you liked best better. I hope I forget this closing forever - I’ll still know it definitely wasn’t among my favourites. 

Edited August 11, 2024 by Sir Rols

[Olympian2004]

2 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

I tend to remember opening ceremonies much better.

I think that comes with the territory: More often than not in Olympic history, the closing ceremonies were only an afterthought of the opening ceremony. London 2012 was maybe the only example in recent Olympic history where the closing ceremony was more dazzling than the opening. So it's not surprising that we forget the closing ceremonies more easily than the opening ceremonies.

[Guilga]

Well, here we are. I don't have a negative opinion as the rest, but that just be that watching stuff with your family is cozier, i guess. But anyway, liked the world map stage, that was pretty cool, same with the calduron segment at the Tullieres. Then we had the protocolar stuff, which was an drag but is to be expected. But now, the artistic part...

I will only say two things. 1: This just might be Paris attempt at saying they should had been given the 1996 centenary games instead of Atlanta, seems fitting in a way of the 2800th anniversary of the thing(as mentioned at the ceremony), given the emphasis on the origins and return of the games. 2: Quite an edge, huh? An dark and sollemn end for a bright games, which i didn't mind, the ones thinking it should be part of an opening ceremony may have a point here but i was more, eh. It didn't suck, but didn't blow it away.

Then we had the SPEECHES, and later the music acts. The handover section was more enjoyable to my parents, if its any consolation, precisely by the music there. But Thomas (the fencing gold medallist 1976) still had to officialy close the games...and the lantern came to the stadia and was symbolically blown away with Bach meddling in the middle of the athletes representatives of all continents: a microcosmos of these sport politicians getting in the way of the people and things we really care about, right? Ok, went too philosophical to that scene credit, it didn't had even a special lighting or music to make the moment punch hard at all.

But hey, as the ceremony said in the final music act, they did things their own way. Better than not trying at all. And we still have more to come at the Concorde, at the 28th.

Protocol: 6. Artistic: 6. Cohesion: 7. Pacing: 6. Overall Score: 22/40, Grade: 5,5/10.

PS: Also about the flame extinguish...They should have played this:

Happy birthday, Olympic Games! Hope you keep up strong for the next 2800 years and counting...