Paris 2024 Ceremonies - Verdict

[sebastien1214]

9 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

I'm admittedly basing it on second-hand sources. 

I also know that what I like, various other people don't like, and visa versa. But unless what's being judged is too ambiguous to know for sure, I'll probably have the same opinion based on other sources. Things like legal complaints alone indicate something was really off about 2024's opening.

There have been way less controversial aspects of past Olympic games that I didn't care for, so if this is exceptionally controversial, I doubt my opinion would change if I watched it with my own eyes. But, okay, I won't deny I'm no authority on the details of Paris 2024.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0xj358y7n5o

 

I feel like I'm hearing my 4-year-old cousin tell me he doesn't like surimi sticks even though he's never tasted them.

Except my 4-year-old cousin doesn't write me an essay explaining why surimi sticks aren't good.

[JMarkSnow2012]

1 hour ago, AustralianFan said:

The Athens Olympic Stadium was a decades old stadium which was given a refresh for the Games and a roof placed on it for the Games.

True- but it was built (in the 1980s) as part of the forward planning for the centenary Olympic bid.

1 hour ago, AustralianFan said:

Here are the actual Field dimensions at the time of their respective Olympic Games:

Sydney 2000 Olympic Stadium:

160m x 118m

 

Athens 2004 Olympic Stadium:

105m x 68m

The Athens dimensions you've given there are for the football field. Unlike Sydney, which had straight ranks of seating on the long sides for good views of the jumping, Athens' seating followed the elliptical shape of the stadium, meaning that the shortest distance from front row to front row was similar to Sydney's- Google Maps measurement suggests maybe even over 120 metres.

[AustralianFan]

2 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

True- but it was built (in the 1980s) as part of the forward planning for the centenary Olympic bid.

The Athens dimensions you've given there are for the football field. Unlike Sydney, which had straight ranks of seating on the long sides for good views of the jumping, Athens' seating followed the elliptical shape of the stadium, meaning that the shortest distance from front row to front row was similar to Sydney's- Google Maps measurement suggests maybe even over 120 metres.

I don’t think you have actually visited the Athens Olymoic Stadium. I have worked there ans attended two ceremonies there.

When they put the track in at OAKA, everyone knew it was a very tight fit and at the ends especially.

Here are two overhead photos which starkly shows the Athens 2004 Olympic Athletics Track practically touching the fence at the ends and in between a much narrower margin.

 

The Sydney 2000 Olympic Athletics Track has clearly m u c h   w i d e r  margins between spectator fence and the edge of the track all the way around.  See for yourself in the photos.

The Athens spectators, all 75,000 of us were without question much closer to the action in the 2004 Opening Ceremony than the comparative “airport sized” Sydney field.

 

[hektor]

Being French, I was upset that the ceremony focused solely on Paris; I did not see anything representing France as a whole, apart from the Tahiti segment. I believe that in previous ceremonies, the balance between showcasing the host city and the country was better.

And of course, the ceremony tickets were borderline a hoax. The visibility was poor, and no goodies or other advantages were provided. It would have been more honest to price them all at 100 euros and organise a lottery to allocate them. But charging between 1000 and 3000 euros? I wonder if some foreign guests will consult their lawyers.

[JMarkSnow2012]

Speaking of Athens 2004, Dimitris Papaioannou has finally presented his side of the story in detail:

https://www.lifo.gr/stiles/optiki-gonia/dimitris-papaioannoy-birthplace-20-hronia-meta

(I draw AustralianFan's attention to a photo about a third of the way down, looking along the stadium from the seating at one end)

[baron-pierreIV]

32 minutes ago, hektor said:

Being French, I was upset that the ceremony focused solely on Paris; I did not see anything representing France as a whole, apart from the Tahiti segment. I believe that in previous ceremonies, the balance between showcasing the host city and the country was better.

And of course, the ceremony tickets were borderline a hoax. The visibility was poor, and no goodies or other advantages were provided. It would have been more honest to price them all at 100 euros and organise a lottery to allocate them. But charging between 1000 and 3000 euros? I wonder if some foreign guests will consult their lawyers.

The IOC's contract is with the City of Paris.  They are the host jurisdiction and the sports played in Tahiti, Lille, Marseille are all ANSWERABLE to Paris 2024.  That is the arrangement.  

As for tickets, buyer beware.  Each prospective buyer should have assessed their chances insofar as expecting to see the "Whole" show or just portions of it.  I am sorry for them but that is the buyer's respnsibility.  

[AustralianFan]

18 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

I draw AustralianFan's attention to a photo about a third of the way down, looking along the stadium from the seating at one end

This has got nothing to do with anything.   The entire field and athletics track was covered for the Opening Ceremony.

I draw your attention @JMarkSnow2012 to the two overhead photos I just posted of the athletic tracks of both stadiums which clearly show the Athens track almost touching the spectator fence at both ends,  whilst there is a considerable gap of several metres to the fence all the way around the entire Sydney track.

As I said, you. clearly have not set foot in the Athens Olympic Stadium and have this baseless idea that the Sydney 2000 and Athens 2004  fields were the same size.

No. They were not.  Athens 2004 was much smaller.

I was going to transfer this discussion to the Athens 2004 thread but it has been archived. 

[AustralianFan]

@JMarkSnow2012 have just transferred this discussion to a new thread ‘Olymoic Stadiums”:

 

[Olympics2028]

4 hours ago, hektor said:

Being French, I was upset that the ceremony focused solely on Paris; I did not see anything representing France as a whole, apart from the Tahiti segment.

 

The theme didn't seem necessarily that Paris-centric or even French-centric. However, the final moment was appropriately Eiffel-Tower-centric, featuring a singer I associate with Canada instead of France or Paris.

No big deal to me that a sound track was used instead of live sound. Although I prefer hearing imperfections of a live performance instead of what comes out of a studio soundboard. However, the imperfection of flying the Olympic flag upside down during the 2024 opening had to be due to a lack of enough rehearsal.

 

 

[mr.bernham]

After sitting with the ceremony for a few days, I've really come around to it. In true French fashion, Paris gave us a grower and not a shower! 

The highlight for me is still the laser show at the Eiffel Tower. The use of 'Supernature' was genius and perfect for the moment. 

On that point, @Sir Rols, do we have any idea on when or if an album/soundtrack is going to be released for the ceremony? The music was probably the best of any recent ceremony I can remember. 

As for the debate around Athens, I think we can all agree that Athens was a perfect traditional ceremony and a highlight in ceremony history. But every host city and host nation has a different relationship with the games, and I appreciate that Paris didn't go the traditional route and really struck out on its own. Personally, I feel like we will remember this ceremony a lot longer than some recent ones. Pretty much every ceremony from the last decade was supremely unmemorable. 

[Sir Rols]

2 hours ago, mr.bernham said:

After sitting with the ceremony for a few days, I've really come around to it. In true French fashion, Paris gave us a grower and not a shower!

I’m warming to it as well. I rewatched it the other day (well, the first hour or so up to the Marseillaise until I switched over when I heard the Triathlon was starting) and I thought what I saw again was really pretty good. Probably has a lot to do with watching it without expectations any more, and not having half one’s attention on the keyboard for the Live Chat, but it seemed to flow and was a lot more coherent than I’d remembered. Of course it was after this point that I remembered it seemed to drag, and get wetter (I’ll rewatch the rest at some stage), but certainly those opening segments are making me reassess it a lot.

[DamC]

3 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

The theme didn't seem necessarily that Paris-centric or even French-centric. However, the final moment was appropriately Eiffel-Tower-centric, featuring a singer I associate with Canada instead of France or Paris.

No big deal to me that a sound track was used instead of live sound. Although I prefer hearing imperfections of a live performance instead of what comes out of a studio soundboard. However, the imperfection of flying the Olympic flag upside down during the 2024 opening had to be due to a lack of enough rehearsal.

I'm still surprised to see people refer to the ceremony as "not French-centric". Every segment featured heavily french references and influences: the opening segment played on French clichés and was a tribute to French music hall, then the second segment showcased French craftmanship in a very obvious Louis Vuitton product placement, followed by a musical performance featuring the republican guard in front the Académie française (can't get more French than that), a fashion show showcasing young up-and-coming Parisian designers. You also had a whole section about the French revolution, and various references to French literature.  

The only sections which were not "French" were the Eurodance party - a tribute to European unity, France being a founding nation of the European Union by the way - and the Imagine performance. 

[ejaycat]

On 7/26/2024 at 5:20 PM, guilherme b said:

 A ceremony meant to shock rather than entertain. The circus of horrors in Paris.

More than a disappointment! What I witnessed was easily the worst Olympic opening ceremony...

 

Edited August 1, 2024 by ejaycat

[Sir Rols]

10 minutes ago, ejaycat said:

But at least it wasn’t “woke”

[JMarkSnow2012]

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

I rewatched it the other day (well, the first hour or so up to the Marseillaise until I switched over when I heard the Triathlon was starting) and I thought what I saw again was really pretty good. Probably has a lot to do with watching it without expectations any more, and not having half one’s attention on the keyboard for the Live Chat

I feel it's partly to do with predictability. In conventional ceremonies you could calculate times for a break or two . during the parade of nations. On Friday that was impossible- another cultural section could turn up at any moment (but sometimes frustratingly didn't, as in “Fraternité”). Rewatching, memory helps to ease that tension.

[yoshi]

Gamesbids rule 32b: every discussion about any ceremony of any kind must eventually become a debate about Athens . One thing that's interested me from the media guide is where it mentions the ring presentation. Now I thought there wasn't really one (tbh I assumed they were gonna use drones but you know, weather), but the guide puts it in the Eiffel Tower section. Watching that bit on iPlayer I assume they mean the rings being part of the light show or maybe that envelope thing that appeared. It's not very clear... what did they mean? What was the envelope? It wasn't mentioned by the commentators...

(PS I don't envy the commentators. Having to describe what was going on without a rehearsal, only able to see the screen, with a media guide that seems pretty light, all while being drowned? They all deserve appreciation)

Edited August 1, 2024 by yoshi

[Bear]

4 minutes ago, yoshi said:

Watching that bit on iPlayer I assume they mean the rings being part of the light show or maybe that envelope thing that appeared. It's not very clear... what did they mean? What was the envelope? It wasn't mentioned by the commentators...

im pretty sure it was referring the reveal of the 1913/14 drawing of the Olympic rings

[sebastien1214]

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I’m warming to it as well. I rewatched it the other day (well, the first hour or so up to the Marseillaise until I switched over when I heard the Triathlon was starting) and I thought what I saw again was really pretty good. Probably has a lot to do with watching it without expectations any more, and not having half one’s attention on the keyboard for the Live Chat, but it seemed to flow and was a lot more coherent than I’d remembered. Of course it was after this point that I remembered it seemed to drag, and get wetter (I’ll rewatch the rest at some stage), but certainly those opening segments are making me reassess it a lot.

We must look at this ceremony as a unique and audacious experience which will probably never be repeated (which is very... French, but people who haven't even seen it think it's not French enough), with its lot of imperfections. A truly experimental object which will serve as a potpourri for the ceremonies of the next 20-30 years, in the sense that there have been so many new ideas tested that future host cities will be able to look into it to pick up good ideas or on the contrary avoid ideas that would not have been satisfactory. In a way, there is a chance that this ceremony will be one of the most influential in history because of this experimental aspect, despite everything that can be said about it.

[Olympics2028]

1 hour ago, ejaycat said:

 

With the woman boxer today being flattened in a few seconds by a non-DNA female, the 2024 games are so far turning out to be quite memorable. Ironic too. The 1936 games were also sort of similarly ironic.

https://presidentlincoln.illinois.gov/learn/educators/educator-resources/teaching-guides/exposing-the-hypocrisy-of-the-1936-berlin-olympics/

Quote

Following the 200m dash, Owens and other athletes were returning to the field to broad jump. Hitler was congratulating athletes for their performances, however, when he saw Owens, he turned away and returned to the stands. Many media outlets at the time referred to this as Hitler’s snub of Jesse Owens, however, the failure of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt to interact with Black athletes after the Olympics had a larger impact on Owens.

Following the Olympics, athletes were traditionally sent to the White House to receive praise from the president, as a form of thanking them for upholding American athleticism; however, Black athletes were not invited to the gathering in 1936. As Owens noted, “Hitler didn’t snub me. It was (Roosevelt) who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.” (Ramsey, 2021).

 

 

 

 

[sebastien1214]

3 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

 

With the woman boxer today being flattened in a few seconds by a non-DNA female, the 2024 games are so far turning out to be quite memorable. Ironic too. The 1936 games were also sort of similarly ironic.

https://presidentlincoln.illinois.gov/learn/educators/educator-resources/teaching-guides/exposing-the-hypocrisy-of-the-1936-berlin-olympics/

 

 

 

 

The comparison between Hitler's games and a woman accused of being transgender, I didn't see it coming in my bingo

[Bear]

3 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

by a non-DNA female

Full offense - are you stupid? of course you immediately bringing up the 1936 Olympics in response answers my own question.

[FYI]

Regardless of that, still find it telling, though, how president roosevelt dissed black athletes from those Games.

[yoshi]

10 minutes ago, Bear said:

im pretty sure it was referring the reveal of the 1913/14 drawing of the Olympic rings

Ah, the envelope - was that actually the first ever drawing of the rings? Significant moment if so, & basically missed by the BBC commentary. But like I say they had a hard job - & the media guide doesn't put much emphasis on that being what it is. 

[sebastien1214]

2 minutes ago, yoshi said:

Ah, the envelope - was that actually the first ever drawing of the rings? Significant moment if so, & basically missed by the BBC commentary. But like I say they had a hard job - & the media guide doesn't put much emphasis on that being what it is. 

Yes, but above all: it seems to me that this is the original document that they showed. Not a copy.

[yoshi]

I assume they got it out of the Olympic Museum? I assume it's there, still never been. A nice acknowledgement of the importance of Paris to the founding of the Olympics - that really should've been emphasised more? I mean if that is the original first drawing of the Olympic rings, that thing is one of the most significant objects in the history of sport.