Paris 2024 Ceremonies - Verdict

[MisterSG1]

8 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Don’t be confused.

I am an Indigenous Australian. That is me, that is who I am and my history, always has, always will be.

My profile name on Gamesbids.com is AustralianFan.  That’s only an onscreen electronic profile name.

But you just said the word “Australia”.

That’s a word Europeans made for the giant island in the south, I’m sure the indigenous must have had other names for it.

Like how the indigenous here claim that North America was known to them as “Turtle Island”, many versions of the land acknowledgment mention Turtle Island, and say sort of derogatorily, “now known as Canada”

[Sir Rols]

3 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

But you just said the word “Australia”.

That’s a word Europeans made for the giant island in the south, I’m sure the indigenous must have had other names for it.

They didn’t

What do Aborigines call Australia?

[AustralianFan]

3 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

But you just said the word “Australia”.

That’s a word Europeans made for the giant island in the south, I’m sure the indigenous must have had other names for it.

Like how the indigenous here claim that North America was known to them as “Turtle Island”, many versions of the land acknowledgment mention Turtle Island, and say sort of derogatorily, “now known as Canada”

Yes,  I live in the continent of Australia along with many other Australians.

Below is a map of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australia showing the many different groups, each with their own culture, customs, language and laws.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples in Australia are the world’s oldest, surviving cultures.

These maps are from the Australian Government AIATSIS.

This third map closeup below shows the Wudjari country where I am from in south western australia:

Visit the AIATSIS website for clearer reproductions of the map than I can present here.

[AustralianFan]

Let’s get back on track with the topic of this thread “Paris Ceremonies - Verdict, which has unfortunately triggered in some a diverse and extreme range of personal views and cultural opinions.

[Sir Rols]

Let’s get back on track…

On 7/29/2024 at 6:55 AM, sebastien1214 said:

The scene in the library with the 3 characters who seduce each other is a tribute to French literature and theater which has a habit of telling stories that tell a love triangle (hence the book covers that we saw).

Let’s not forget it celebrates that other great French invention…

[Sir Rols]

 

[FYI]

Amen!!!

[JMarkSnow2012]

Time for a bit of controversy. Having rewatched the whole thing at double-speed, I can now reveal some statistics.

The ceremony was 3 hours 59 minutes long.

Separating the various chunks of parade from the interspersed cultural bits (many of which were only a few seconds long, particularly during the fashion show), we find that it was only about 1 hour 23 minutes long. The use of boats meant that teams which normally spread themselves out as they entered got very short screen times: Spain, the most notorious, got just 22 seconds; the USA 43. Interestingly, the barge headed by Team GB was seen from the air for 22 seconds before they got 31 seconds of standard coverage. France got 4 minutes 13 seconds- very parsimonious compared with the normal stadium parade.

Including the Marseillaise, the many, many cultural segments added up to 1 hour 23 minutes, of which 26 minutes (including 5 for Lady Gaga) were on video.

The protocol sections totalled 1 hour 11 minutes, of which 6 minutes (Olympic history and Laurel award) were on video. Both the speeches were 7-and-a-half minutes long. The flag was on the mechanical hippopotamos for 12 minutes, then over 2 minutes on the real horse. The torch was on the river for over 10 minutes, then relayed through the Louvre & Tuileries for another 10.

 

 

[sebastien1214]

Another topic: the TV production fiasco.
From what I've read in various press articles/interviews or on Twitter, there are these elements that weren't broadcast but that nevertheless happened during the ceremony (and weren't canceled because of the rain):

- Choreography of firefighters on one of the bridges in Paris
- Dancers on several rooftops of buildings (I thought it had been canceled; but looking closely at the background at the time of the sequence on the star dancer, we could still clearly see people on the rooftops in the background so I have the impression that it was still done? But there should normally have been a drone shot that was supposed to fly over them, and it wasn't done)
- The red heart made by the Patrouille de France. In fact we only saw it... 2 or 3 seconds on TV. But in the background, it wasn't even on a shot dedicated to that.

- The blue-white-red flag by the Patrouille de la France. That wasn't even shown for a single second

And maybe other things. That's really the big problem of the ceremony...

3 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Time for a bit of controversy. Having rewatched the whole thing at double-speed, I can now reveal some statistics.

The ceremony was 3 hours 59 minutes long.

Separating the various chunks of parade from the interspersed cultural bits (many of which were only a few seconds long, particularly during the fashion show), we find that it was only about 1 hour 23 minutes long. The use of boats meant that teams which normally spread themselves out as they entered got very short screen times: Spain, the most notorious, got just 22 seconds; the USA 43. Interestingly, the barge headed by Team GB was seen from the air for 22 seconds before they got 31 seconds of standard coverage. France got 4 minutes 13 seconds- very parsimonious compared with the normal stadium parade.

Including the Marseillaise, the many, many cultural segments added up to 1 hour 23 minutes, of which 26 minutes (including 5 for Lady Gaga) were on video.

The protocol sections totalled 1 hour 11 minutes, of which 6 minutes (Olympic history and Laurel award) were on video. Both the speeches were 7-and-a-half minutes long. The flag was on the mechanical hippopotamos for 12 minutes, then over 2 minutes on the real horse. The torch was on the river for over 10 minutes, then relayed through the Louvre & Tuileries for another 10.

 

 

I was curious to know the total duration of each part (parade - show - protocol). Thank you!

I suspected that in reality the parade part lasted less time than in previous editions. But I didn't have the courage to do the calculation myself. Here it is.

[Rob2012]

48 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Time for a bit of controversy. Having rewatched the whole thing at double-speed, I can now reveal some statistics.

The ceremony was 3 hours 59 minutes long.

Separating the various chunks of parade from the interspersed cultural bits (many of which were only a few seconds long, particularly during the fashion show), we find that it was only about 1 hour 23 minutes long. The use of boats meant that teams which normally spread themselves out as they entered got very short screen times: Spain, the most notorious, got just 22 seconds; the USA 43. Interestingly, the barge headed by Team GB was seen from the air for 22 seconds before they got 31 seconds of standard coverage. France got 4 minutes 13 seconds- very parsimonious compared with the normal stadium parade.

Including the Marseillaise, the many, many cultural segments added up to 1 hour 23 minutes, of which 26 minutes (including 5 for Lady Gaga) were on video.

The protocol sections totalled 1 hour 11 minutes, of which 6 minutes (Olympic history and Laurel award) were on video. Both the speeches were 7-and-a-half minutes long. The flag was on the mechanical hippopotamos for 12 minutes, then over 2 minutes on the real horse. The torch was on the river for over 10 minutes, then relayed through the Louvre & Tuileries for another 10.

Thank you for bringing this thread back to proper GamesBids nerd territory. I mean that.

Are you basically proving what was obvious to all of us, but with Hard Numbers - that the faff:content ratio in this ceremony was higher than in previous ones?

Paris 2024, the American Football of opening ceremonies.

Edited July 30 by Rob2012

[JMarkSnow2012]

1 hour ago, sebastien1214 said:

- Choreography of firefighters on one of the bridges in Paris
- Dancers on several rooftops of buildings (I thought it had been canceled; but looking closely at the background at the time of the sequence on the star dancer, we could still clearly see people on the rooftops in the background so I have the impression that it was still done? But there should normally have been a drone shot that was supposed to fly over them, and it wasn't done)
- The red heart made by the Patrouille de France. In fact we only saw it... 2 or 3 seconds on TV. But in the background, it wasn't even on a shot dedicated to that.

- The blue-white-red flag by the Patrouille de la France. That wasn't even shown for a single second

Oops. The BBC commentators mentioned one lot of dancers were firefighters, but I didn't put that info in my spreadsheet!

Yes, the skywriting heart was very perfunctory. They'd been alternating video library lovers with live sway-poles for several minutes, and it looks as if they mis-timed it. As for the flag though- they got that in the pre-show of London 2012 from the Red Arrows, as TF1's commentators happily noted at the time.🤗

[JMarkSnow2012]

52 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

Are you basically proving what was obvious to all of us, but with Hard Numbers - that the faff:content ratio in this ceremony was higher than in previous ones?

Yes. The flag and torch journeys along the Seine were presumably designed to please the paying spectators, but the unusually long torch relay from the Louvre wouldn't even benefit them. The EU pop & dance segment, which was halfway between cultural (mostly not French) and protocol (just what is the official status of Imagine?), was just under 18 minutes.

[yoshi]

Imagine is protocol, as its use is mandated by the Charter iirc. Although obviously it's a piece of protocol that the organisers can stage however they want. Interesting about the TV filming, there was a lot which felt odd or missing which I kinda assumed was due to the rain, but being unable to have a rehearsal probably made it all a struggle. I'd particularly like to know what that long shot at the end of La Marseillaise was supposed to be showing. Tbh I'd really like to read the media guide, we normally get those on the Olympic World Library site after a while don't we?

[sebastien1214]

There was no overall artistic rehearsal but there were several technical rehearsals. This mainly concerned the boats but also the cameras (we see it in part two of the documentary). So I imagine that they still had to rehearse the camera shots? (by filming the empty roofs and facades, for example). All this is very strange. In addition, the director is not unknown, he is a director chosen by the IOC and who has already filmed Olympic ceremonies.

[Michelle]

Some of the old guard struggling to move on! 

asking for respect and to be seen and then continually denigrate others is beyond hypocritical. 
 

MAGA types don’t represent the many legitimate views of many others who actually consider their faith important. Who knew I’d have to make that clear, but seemingly I do.

 

Edited July 30 by Michelle

[Rob2012]

The people still making noise about this - as opposed to not liking it but accepting there was no bad intent and moving on (like you) - are MAGA types and Christian Nationalists. So I think Rols pointing out their hypocrisy when it comes to this kind of thing is fine.

And any high ground they had over this (and they never had much in the first place) is now firmly the rear-view mirror.

I was happy to move on, but I've just seen this and it obviously needs to be posted as relevant news....

 

Edited July 30 by Rob2012

[Michelle]

In what way is this relevant? 

online abuse is directed at every one for seemingly the most innocuous reasons. This is hardly new. And Barbara Butch posted some inflammatory stories on their ig … whether or not that is inviting criticism is down to your personal take I suppose. 

all of this is just beyond ridiculous now. Both sides are at fault. There is no middle ground in this. No one will take accountability and no one will back down. The culture wars still rage. 

Edited July 30 by Michelle

[guilherme b]

 I will tap my sign too

Olympic charter

"50 Advertising, demonstrations, propaganda

 2 No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas."

There was a reason why in ancient Greece they left the everyday crap of daily discussions aside for a few days to hold the games

They could have followed the rule, but no. You don't hijack the ceremony for your political agenda and then expect people to stay silent. That's not how it works. I wish I could unsee this garbage, just like for my children. The choice of image for this Olympics was intentional and very well orchestrated. Now endure the internet's echo chamber."

[Rob2012]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

all of this is just beyond ridiculous now. Both sides are at fault. There is no middle ground in this. No one will take accountability and no one will back down.

The IOC has said sorry if people were offended, the ceremony director has too whilst explaining the content, its intent, and the fact there was no malice meant. What more should they do? It was a seconds long bit in a four hour ceremony that none of us even spotted in the live thread, and they've more than gone out of their way to ease things.

The other side, including posters in this thread who have only registered this week to post bile*, doesn't want to let this go at all and are becoming more fundamentalist and openly bigoted as it goes on.

It seems to be only one side actually wants to move on.

-----

* and I'm pleased the Old Guard here have told them where to go especially since the owner of this site doesn't moderate it anymore.

Edited July 30 by Rob2012

[krow]

as a pro-genocide fascist, i was deeply offended by the song "imagine" and its clarion call for peace and tolerance. my religious beliefs teach hatred and you're actually the intolerant one for not respecting that.

as a white ethnostate nazi, i was appalled by the inclusion of athletes from nonwhite countries.

any opinion i hold is reasonable and you must respect it, and i reserve the right to throw around false equivalences whenever i like and complain on the internet for the better part of a week. 

[krow]

has anyone considered that i might be the real victim at all times and in every circumstance? 

[Michelle]

23 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

 

The other side, including posters in this thread who have only registered this week to post bile*, doesn't want to let this go at all and are becoming more fundamentalist and openly bigoted as it goes on.

You're right there's no middle ground at this point. At this point, it's idiots vs decent people who were either fine with it or who didn't care for it but are happy to accept no harm was meant.

 

Oh I pay little attention to those people. You can see their intention, it’s clear and dangerous. 

The fear I have is that people get lumped together, when opinions merge … however, I suspect if I was in the U.S., I’d be accused of being one of those angry cat ladies by the right … and ‘too religious’ by the left. There is no middle ground in that country or on any issue evidently. 

There are fundamentalists on both sides; it’s those we need to ignore. Tho I appreciate it’s difficult to do as they tend to be the loudest. 

(I was unaware of the lack of moderation. There has been a few suspect posts that I thought could have been moderated. But now I see why they weren’t). 

Edited July 30 by Michelle

[sebastien1214]

Do we tell them now that Thomas Jolly is also doing the closing ceremony (and those of the Paralympics) where we still have to wait a little longer?

[Michelle]

3 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said:

Do we tell them now that Thomas Jolly is also doing the closing ceremony (and those of the Paralympics) where we still have to wait a little longer?

Wondering why the French decided on Jolly for everything. Is that unusual? I am not an aficionado on Olympic ceremonies though. Maybe Baron could enlighten us. 

[JMarkSnow2012]

1 hour ago, guilherme b said:

 I will tap my sign too

Olympic charter

"50 Advertising, demonstrations, propaganda

 2 No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas."

There was a reason why in ancient Greece they left the everyday crap of daily discussions aside for a few days to hold the games

They could have followed the rule, but no. You don't hijack the ceremony for your political agenda and then expect people to stay silent. That's not how it works. I wish I could unsee this garbage, just like for my children. The choice of image for this Olympics was intentional and very well orchestrated. Now endure the internet's echo chamber."

It's only propaganda if you choose to see it as such. The image being recreated was of ancient Greek gods- the original Olympians. What's more, the recreation was considerably less risqué than the original 17th century painting in Dijon. It was modern young people celebrating modern French style.

As Krow hints in another comment, "Imagine" is far more political (on which topic- does anybody have a post-2015 copy of either the IOC Protocol Guide or the Ceremonies protocol?)