Paris 2024 Ceremonies - Verdict

[sebastien1214]

Yes, it mostly resembles the usual specifications of each opening ceremony. Which each director adapts to his liking.

[Ikarus360]

The most saddening thing of this is that there will probably be big consequences regarding how ceremonies will be done in the future.... The IOC clearly went on autopilot mode for this year and let the organizing comittee have absolute control of what they wanted for the show. Probably as another attempt from Champion in Fencing 1976 to attract younger audiences.

After the waves of criticism its getting, i'm afraid Milano Cortina and L.A organizers might now play it too safe by the book and the IOC also decides to hold a tighter control in creativity and what they can't/cannot do. Depictions of religion are most definitely going to be banned after this.

Now we have people in social media saying how the ceremony was "satanic" due to other details like the mechanical horse (calling it a reference to the Horsemen of Death) and the brazen bull in Trocadero (that weird head besides the flagpole)being a reference to Moloch...while I admit some limits shouldn't be crossed, its obvious that everyone from both sides has gotten very radicalized over the last 8 years (2016 was truly a disaster for this timeline).

[sebastien1214]

21 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

The most saddening thing of this is that there will probably be big consequences regarding how ceremonies will be done in the future.... The IOC clearly went on autopilot mode for this year and let the organizing comittee have absolute control of what they wanted for the show. Probably as another attempt from Champion in Fencing 1976 to attract younger audiences.

After the waves of criticism its getting, i'm afraid Milano Cortina and L.A organizers might now play it too safe by the book and the IOC also decides to hold a tighter control in creativity and what they can't/cannot do. Depictions of religion are most definitely going to be banned after this.

Now we have people in social media saying how the ceremony was "satanic" due to other details like the mechanical horse (calling it a reference to the Horsemen of Death) and the brazen bull in Trocadero (that weird head besides the flagpole)being a reference to Moloch...while I admit some limits shouldn't be crossed, its obvious that everyone from both sides has gotten very radicalized over the last 8 years (2016 was truly a disaster for this timeline).

Well, the La Grande Seine documentary clearly shows that this is not the case. The IOC may have given us a little more freedom than in other past editions, but it was quite clear that the IOC kept total control over the content of the ceremonies for months and months before July 26. Like for example the sequence where Thomas Bach asked that there be no guillotine. (He's really not funny...)

So the IOC knew perfectly well what was going to be proposed in this ceremony months before. It's not as if they had been taken in by surprise.

[JMarkSnow2012]

26 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

Now we have people in social media saying how the ceremony was "satanic" due to other details like the mechanical horse (calling it a reference to the Horsemen of Death) and the brazen bull in Trocadero (that weird head besides the flagpole)being a reference to Moloch...

... and if you point out that the sculpture is a permanent feature of the Trocadéro, made in 1937, they'll say "Aha, more Predictive Programming by the evil élites" ...

[JMarkSnow2012]

48 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said:

the IOC knew perfectly well what was going to be proposed in this ceremony months before

What the IOC knew was what is really in the ceremony, not what politically-motivated trolls are claiming is in the ceremony.

[sebastien1214]

Raw data from the poll on the French people's opinion on the opening ceremony.

https://harris-interactive.fr/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2024/07/Rapport-Toluna-Harris-La-perception-de-la-ceremonie-douverture-Jeux-Olympiques-de-Paris-2024-par-les-Francais-Paris-2024.pdf

Poll conducted on a representative panel of 1,488 French people aged 18 and over. For comparison, this is a sample of a classic and usual size compared to polls of voting intentions for elections (and in France, during the last legislative and European elections, they were very good). The margin of error is 1.8% with a 95% confidence interval.

 

[MisterSG1]

14 hours ago, PikyoK said:

So true! Ceremonies are meant to be uniting not dividing

I know it’s probably before your time, but what do you think of Midnight Oil’s performance at Sydney Closing?

The fallout of that kind of thought process is having serious repercussions into how AUS, NZL, more recently since the late 2010s CAN operate.

I think NZL’s uniform at this Olympics is very telling as to the kind of division seen into how the country runs.

[Olympics2028]

This article deals with the segment in a way that shows the planners want it both ways, while the writer generally says, "so what!?" The author says, "the Christian right...have all the bite of a Chihuahua." Is that a good thing or a bad thing? How do Muslims deal with their theology? Is that a good thing or bad thing?

People on the political left and political right just need to be totally transparent about their philosophy. That includes the IOC and the 2024 OOC. They need to explain what motivates them, what makes them tick.

For instance, the two sides can theorize why the child below was included in a scene that spoofs a famous fresco in Italy, one where Leonardo Da Vinci (a "practicing homosexual") portrayed only adults.

https://www.vulture.com/article/olympics-last-supper-controversy-explained.html

In an inspiring moment proving that we can still have cultural controversies centered around the Christian right that have all the bite of a Chihuahua, Christians have gotten annoyed by one segment of the Parisian Opening Ceremony....

The Opening Ceremony organizers, meanwhile, denied the connection. Thomas Jolly, Olympics and Paralympics’ artistic director, told BFMTV that, “You will never find in my work a desire to denigrate anyone or anything” and explained that the reference was just to a regular pagan feast and the gods of Olympus. That’s it!

Anyway, all of this might be a moot point since we think Leonardo da Vinci would have been at the drag shows. Historians like Serge Bramly and David M. Friedman have contended that he was an actively practicing homosexual, and he was, in fact, charged with sodomy during his lifetime.

[JMarkSnow2012]

1 hour ago, Olympics2028 said:

the two sides can theorize why the child below was included in a scene that spoofs a famous fresco in Italy, one where Leonardo Da Vinci (a "practicing homosexual") portrayed only adults.

No, no, no, no, no.

As I explained in an earlier comment in this thread, the scene spoofs a 17th century picture in France, which portrays Greek gods, cherubs etc.

[Sir Rols]

*sighs*

sucks that this thread has turned into a culture war battleground. 

7 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

I know it’s probably before your time, but what do you think of Midnight Oil’s performance at Sydney Closing?

The fallout of that kind of thought process is having serious repercussions into how AUS, NZL, more recently since the late 2010s CAN operate.

I think NZL’s uniform at this Olympics is very telling as to the kind of division seen into how the country runs.

Sydney 2000 actually achieved significant leaps forward in the cause of indigenous reconciliation in Australia. The example and profile of Cathy Freeman was embraced wholeheartedly by the nation, while Midnight Oil’s performance presaged and helped momentum towards the 2007 of official apology for past injustices. Having reached another impasse, another such significant gesture at Brisbane would do wonders to getting us to the next stages.

You can’t seriously be suggesting that progressive movements should just shut up and stop being visible so they don’t annoy conservatives? LGBTQ+ people should all just go back in the closet and hide themselves? Indigenous people should know their places and be happy for when the “mainstream” begrudgingly gives them some charity. Women should go back in the kitchen? If not for the Suffragettes, the Gandhis, Rosa Parks, the Stonewalls, the Mandelas and the Greta Thunbergs of the world, injustice can never be undone, wrongs would never be righted and humanism would never progress..  

Edited July 30 by Sir Rols

[MisterSG1]

21 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

*sighs*

sucks that this thread has turned into a culture war battleground. 

Sydney 2000 actually achieved significant leaps forward in the cause of indigenous reconciliation in Australia. The example and profile of Cathy Freeman was embraced wholeheartedly by the nation, while Midnight Oil’s performance presaged and helped momentum towards the 2007 of Ila apology for past injustices. Havin reached another impasse, another such significant gesture at Brisbane who’d do wonders to getting us to the next stages.

You can’t seriously be suggesting that progressive movements should just shut up and stop being visible so they don’t annoy conservatives? LGBTQ+ people should all just go back in the closet and hide themselves? Indigenous people should know their places and be happy for when the “mainstream” begrudgingly gives them some charity. If not for the Rosa Parks, the Stonewalls, the Mandelas and the Greta Thunbergs of the world, injustice can never be undone, wrongs would never be righted and humanism would never progress..  

The real question about this whole land acknowledgment nonsense is what exactly the end game is. I’m not totally sure on the situation of AUS or NZL, if you’re living on stolen land as you like to say, then why don’t you lead by example and move to your ancestral home? What becomes of your property for example if you are declared to be living on stolen land by law?

I saw during the 2023 Women’s World Cup that you made yourselves look extremely defeated and wrote all your cities’ names in indigenous languages, what exactly is that trying to prove but to create division, hostility, and anger? Heck, will you even call it “Brisbane” by the time 2032 rolls around?

This is precisely why I was jumping for joy when Vancouver pulled out of 2030 because it would have been a political quagmire considering the legal situation they’d have you believe involving First Nations, British Columbia, and Vancouver.

I’m a man of integrity, I used to be a big fan of Toronto sports, but when they started saying land acknowledgments, I haven’t went back since. Again, what purpose do they have other than to divide people?

[baron-pierreIV]

45 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

No, no, no, no, no.

As I explained in an earlier comment in this thread, the scene spoofs a 17th century picture in France, which portrays Greek gods, cherubs etc.

Which in itself looks like that artist's take-off on da Vinci's more famous Last Supper painting.  

[Sir Rols]

14 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

I saw during the 2023 Women’s World Cup that you made yourselves look extremely defeated and wrote all your cities’ names in indigenous languages, what exactly is that trying to prove but to create division, hostility, and anger?

Defeated???  A simple token gesture to just simply acknowledge the original inhabitants of the land? A gesture to show national history didn’t start only when British colonialists stepped off their boats. To me it’s a nice touch of national and cultural distinctiveness.

How exactly does that harm you, your self worth and well-being? 

14 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

then why don’t you lead by example and move to your ancestral home?

So “coloured” people should just shut up and o back to their reservations. How petty.

Edited July 29 by Sir Rols

[MisterSG1]

10 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Defeated???  A simple token gesture to just simply acknowledge the original inhabitants of the land? A gesture to show national history didn’t start only when British colonialists stepped of their boats. To me it’s a nice touch of national and cultural distinctiveness.

How exactly does that harm you, your self worth and well-being? 

So “coloured” people should just shut up and o back to their reservations. How petty.

What purpose does that serve to have a land acknowledgment? If we recognize that we are on stolen land, that gives indigenous groups a significant trump card in court, and indeed that’s what’s starting to play out. Two First Nations have made a land claim demanding all of New Brunswick, the question becomes, if the land claim is successful, what does this mean for property owners, how can the province function if it’s all reserve land? British Columbia is also tricky because it doesn’t involve any treaties, meaning that tribes probably will try to make a land claim eventually that all of Vancouver is indigenous land, see the concern that has? This starts to question the real political sovereignty of Canada at this point.

Midnight Oil spoke of paying the rent and giving it back. What does that mean? Is “rent” a one time reparation, or is it a continuous rent for eternity? Likewise you have to notice the extreme unfairness and unjustness of the whole thing, based on ancestry, one group is entitled to money which the other group has to pay out. It almost in a way makes indigenous people like royalty.

Similarly, to give it back, if Australia is stolen land, what does that mean to you if it’s under total indigenous control, obviously the tribes would only be in it for themselves, and thus you’ll be at the mercy of whatever system they have.

As for city names? Use your brain, was there any kind of native settlements in the spots where modern Australian cities are today? No, it’s a defeatist attitude, a national guilt shaming exercise to show the people we are on stolen land.

Toronto, which itself is an indigenous word, has its roots in the late 1700s as a temporary Fort called York which became a permanent settlement, this settlement got renamed in 1834 and eventually we became the flagship city of Canada. Other than a few wigwams by Lake Ontario, there was NO settlement in where Toronto sits today.

What I meant by going back to your ancestral home, if we understand Australia only belongs to the indigenous, this means that everyone who is not indigenous is therefore a “colonizer”. No matter what race, anyone who isn’t indigenous could be considered that way and that’s a common thing being portrayed in the media these days.

[Sir Rols]

So, those damn natives didn’t have any civilisation till the Europeans came and set them right.

Okay, we’ve both marked our respective stances. This is getting nowhere and is ridiculously off topic. As I said, so sad this thread has devolved to culture wars (and I knowledge I’ve played my part in that). I’m out and off to watch some surfing.

Edited July 29 by Sir Rols

[MisterSG1]

Well to put it simply, tell me about civil engineering wonders that the indigenous in Australia made before European contact.

I’m making this point because of the situation when ceremonies go too far, like Sydney Closing and now Paris Opening.

[Sir Rols]

12 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

Well to put it simply, tell me about civil engineering wonders that the indigenous in Australia made before European contact

So that’s the mark of cultural identity, eh?

Edited July 29 by Sir Rols

[sebastien1214]

8 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

Well to put it simply, tell me about civil engineering wonders that the indigenous in Australia made before European contact.

I’m making this point because of the situation when ceremonies go too far, like Sydney Closing and now Paris Opening.

Oh yes, these are the old colonialist arguments from the 19th century based on "we are bringing civilization to these backward peoples". I don't know the history of the United Kingdom and its former colonies, but for France, the truth is that the Western way of life that we brought to the colonies was only for the white settler neighborhoods, and that concerning the local peoples, not only did we bring them nothing (still as much illiteracy and cut off from access to modern care), but that in the end the only thing that the local peoples got from us... was to have been killed by tens of thousands. (colonial wars, exploitation in unworthy conditions...). It took the Algerians to get us out of Algeria in 1962 so that they could discover all these beautiful neighborhoods in Algiers that we had built but reserved exclusively for Europeans, real universal access to education, medicine... even though we had occupied Algeria for 132 years.

[sebastien1214]

2 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said:

Oh yes, these are the old colonialist arguments from the 19th century based on "we are bringing civilization to these backward peoples". I don't know the history of the United Kingdom and its former colonies, but for France, the truth is that the Western way of life that we brought to the colonies was only for the white settler neighborhoods, and that concerning the local peoples, not only did we bring them nothing (still as much illiteracy and cut off from access to modern care), but that in the end the only thing that the local peoples got from us... was to have been killed by tens of thousands. (colonial wars, exploitation in unworthy conditions...). It took the Algerians to get us out of Algeria in 1962 so that they could discover all these beautiful neighborhoods in Algiers that we had built but reserved exclusively for Europeans, real universal access to education, medicine... even though we had occupied Algeria for 132 years.

Oh, yes, by the way: the observation I make is also totally valid today, in 2024, in New Caledonia. (although it is less serious than Algeria in 1962; but in 2024 you still have in Noumea mind-boggling things like the European neighborhoods protected by local militias, neighborhoods that have much better health and education infrastructures than the Kanak neighborhoods and cities)

[Gonzo]

47 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

I saw during the 2023 Women’s World Cup that you made yourselves look extremely defeated and wrote all your cities’ names in indigenous languages, what exactly is that trying to prove but to create division, hostility, and anger? Heck, will you even call it “Brisbane” by the time 2032 rolls around?

LOL, don't even get me started on this topic

It is nothing more than self-loathing white hating virtue signalling from the 'progressive' elite

As leading Melbourne errr sorry Naarm Aboriginal Elder Ian Hunter has said in the past

Quote

 

Wurundjeri elder Ian Hunter questioned the term Naarm for Melbourne, saying he had never heard of it growing up.

“How could Aboriginal people have named a place that never existed? A lot of young people in recent years have come up with the word Naarm, but I’ve never seen it.”

 

Meh ... what would he know? The college educated white latte sipping chardonnay socialist folk from the inner city know more than any pesky Aboriginal guy!

So yeah so those Colonial names of Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth are now offensive and replaced with made up names but my favourite remains Canberra. Canberra the evil national capital of those evil colonialists, not named after any British thing, but how dare those colonialists 100 plus years ago actually name the place Canberra after what the local indigenous people called the area. BUT NO! That's not acceptable to the 'progressive elite' - we can't have the name Canberra! So they in turn originally renamed it Ngunnwal (not that Ngunnwal is a place but rather the local tribe of the area), so that name stuck for a year or two until the other local tribe (Ngambri) in the Canberra area got angry so now Canberra is referred to as Ngunnwal-Ngambri. It's all just laughable and stirring division

[JMarkSnow2012]

57 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Which in itself looks like that artist's take-off on da Vinci's more famous Last Supper painting.  

As I also explained in the earlier comment, it looked a lot less like the Last Supper until some unknown former owner who had apparently seen the Last Supper chopped off a large portion at the left side to change the axis of symmetry and make it look like a parody of the Last Supper. Trolls existed long before the internet.

[Gonzo]

Oh and the Ngunnwal & Ngambri people still hate each other to this day

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-04/ngunnawal-leaders-say-governments-ngambri-apology-an-affront/102299678

 

 

[krow]

i see this thread is having a completely normal moment the past few days. 

[PikyoK]

7 hours ago, sebastien1214 said:

the IOC knew perfectly well what was going to be proposed in this ceremony months before. It's not as if they had been taken in by surprise.

Yes. They sure did. It's even in the Operational Requirements section of the Host City Contract.

Chapter 6: Ceremonies -> Pages 47 - 49 -> CER Annexes 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08

CER 02 - Creative approach and vision of the Ceremonies
• Provide the initial presentation on the general creative approach and vision of the Ceremonies for IOC approval.

CER 03 - Concepts and detailed production master plans for Ceremonies
• Submit concepts and detailed production master plans for all Ceremonies for IOC approval. Thereafter, any substantive or thematic changes shall be resubmitted for IOC approval.

CER 04 - Protocol elements for Ceremonies
• Ensure that protocol elements comply with the order and the description included in CER Annex 3 - Specifications on Protocol Elements for Ceremonies (with the understanding that artistic segments may be interspersed between the protocol elements).

CER 06 - Preview of Ceremonies
• Provide access to all representatives, designated by the IOC, to preview such Ceremonies in their substantive entirety during any rehearsal process, including backstage access, in order that such representatives can ensure that these Ceremonies will be held in conformity with the requirements set forth in this HCC and the written plans for such Ceremonies approved by the IOC.

CER 07 - Coordination with OBS
• Consult and collaborate with OBS regarding the progress and development of the Ceremonies; understanding that the OCOG will be responsible for the production of the Ceremonies in accordance with the OCOG’s requirements contained herein and that OBS will have final authority and control with respect to the broadcast coverage of the Ceremonies.

CER 08 - Approvals of Opening and Closing Ceremony-related elements
• Submit the following elements related to the Opening and Closing Ceremonies to the IOC for approval:
− the initial presentation on the Opening and Closing Ceremonies concept including integration of Olympic protocol elements;
− the detailed creative concepts and Olympic protocol elements associated with the Opening and Closing Ceremonies, along with a master plan including a production budget, high-level production schedules and staff/production plans;
− a detailed operational plan for the athletes;
− the marching order, based on Host Country language (if different from French or English); and
− the final, detailed and complete script; all subsequent editions shall be submitted with changes clearly highlighted.

 

Reference: https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Document Library/OlympicOrg/Games/Host-City-Contract/HCC-Operational-Requirements.pdf 

[PikyoK]

6 hours ago, MisterSG1 said:

I know it’s probably before your time, but what do you think of Midnight Oil’s performance at Sydney Closing?

 

I was born a few months after the Sydney Games. My first time hearing about the Olympics was in 2004 with the Athens Games. I very much remember the excitement and hype, particularly within the Greek diaspora in Australia. 

As an Australian, I do believe that Indigenous Australia and Indigenous Australians have every right to be included in the Sydney ceremonies. After all, it's part of our history. But when artists like Midnight Oil include political messages like 'sorry' on their black shirts, it opens up a can of worms and goes too far. I feel as though that was a big no-no when it comes to political messaging and virtue signalling. Non-Australians must've been scratching their heads when they saw their shirts. The past can't be rewritten but we can learn from it...by not shaming each other.