Paris 2024 Ceremonies - Verdict

[baron-pierreIV]

But people forget that Leonardo da Vinci wasn't EVEN ALIVE at the time of Jesus Christ.  The famous "portrait" is merely a figment of his imagination!!   He wasn't EVEN 20 miles of the actual event OR LOCATION -- and missed it by what? 15 CENTURIES??  

[JesseSaenz]

On 7/27/2024 at 7:27 AM, FYI said:

The weather was beyond the organizer's control, though. Can't fault them for that.

Not New York, Toronto or Singapore. The very tall skyscrapers alone in those cities, would block all the views for everyone, on the ground & on TV.

Just no more city ceremonies unless it's free to spectators. Cause boy did Paris' fall flat.

Thankfully it will be remembered for Celine Dion on the Tower. But the rest did not work.

The entire thing should have been in one location.

I'm willing to bet the closing will be much better and more exciting. Hopefully.

[sebastien1214]

48 minutes ago, Michelle said:

But Sebastien, we can’t have a world where if someone calls out or criticises a portion of a ceremony… they’re automatically labelled. People can have opposing views but be civil. 
 

im a Christian, and I found this element of the ceremony crass. However, at the time when I saw the drag queens walk on the catwalk, I called someone out for mocking .. and said it represented diversity. I stand by that. 
 

for me, I don’t like any religion being parodied. It’s just insensitive. 
 

Those calling out this section on social media, a lot of them are clearly homophobic. That is wrong and should also be called out. 
 

that’s my last word on this topic. I’d rather focus on the sports and the games experience. 

I am absolutely not in the position where we should label criticism. I opened this thread precisely to have this space for exchange less frantic than a livechat thread. Because I think it is interesting to have a space where we write our feelings, as severe as they may be, and confront them with the feelings of other people. But there are limits, for me, not to be crossed, it is when we attack minorities, whether sexual or otherwise.

I know a few Catholics who found this scene not at their "taste". But they just said "I didn't like this sequence" as they would for any other sequence they didn't like for various reasons. They didn't focus on the presence of drag queens, didn't make it an obsessive subject for hours. I have no problem with that. We have the right to not like sequences, and this one too.

What really bothers me, however, is when the presence of drag queens is explicitly mentioned to express rejection. So what? If they weren't drag queens but white men, would that be acceptable? Wouldn't drag queens have the right to parody unlike other categories of the population? Yes, it's a form of discrimination that adds to all the discrimination that these minorities are victims of and who suffer from it. We call that homophobia. And it must be denounced.

And the truth is that today a very significant portion of the opinions that express the rejection of this sequence do so by targeting drag queens. And from this moment on, we must be very careful. Because if someone on their side makes repeated or even obsessive criticisms of this sequence without specifically targeting the presence of drag queens, it does not prevent that this also reinforces the media discourse of the majority of homophobic opinions. It's a bit like adding fuel to the fire.

This is not about claiming a right to blasphemy. Personally, I think that blasphemy must be protected; that is the philosophy of my country, by the way. However, I know that this is a more debatable notion in other countries, including Western ones. On the other hand, this is about fighting against discrimination. That should be the subject of a unanimous consensus and without any possible debate. It is quite mind-boggling that in 2024 we still have to remind people of this.

I am sure that given the number of people on this forum, statistically there must be one or more homosexual people. I am not interested in knowing who and how many. But also think that the homophobic remarks that some people make can be felt by some users of this forum as a real injury, an insult.

I don't want to prolong this discussion any longer. I think I've said what I had to say, any additional message would simply be copy and paste that is not necessarily useful. I prefer 1000x people to burn the opening ceremony by saying that Tokyo was better because at least, even without necessarily agreeing, there is no one who is offended.

[olympian.br]

I don’t even care about the last supper parody (or whatever that was), this ceremony was chaotic and disjointed and should be an example of what NOT to do when planning an olympic ceremony.

Having said that, the last minutes were very good, Miss Dion was a highlight.

[Bear]

1 hour ago, guilherme b said:

Stay calm while the OC activates damage control mode. YouTube took down the opening videos and disabled all comments. 190,000 views for only 2,000 likes. Videos criticizing the ceremony with images are being taken down from the internet.

girl thats because of copyright

[baron-pierreIV]

Just now, olympian.br said:

Having said that, the last minutes were very good, Miss Dion was a highlight.

By which time, many folks in the "Troc" arena had already left -- spectators, athletes and VIPs -- which is why they never showed any full-shot footage of the "Troc" arena at that time.  

[olympian.br]

3 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

By which time, many folks in the "Troc" arena had already left -- spectators, athletes and VIPs -- which is why they never showed any full-shot footage of the "Troc" arena at that time.  

The trocadero part was such a misfire. The staging was kind dull, few athletes, and that horse “transition” was laughable, at best lol 

The Eiffel tower special effects were quite good but it took so long, then that random dancer started doing his Michael Jackson thing, really the more I remember the worst it gets.

[Olympics2028]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

Those calling out this section on social media, a lot of them are clearly homophobic. That is wrong and should also be called out.

 

Isn't it actually transphobic? Or what's the label for people who don't like seeing transvestites? Tranvestitephobic?

Regardless, why Olympic ceremonies now like including so many wacky, wild, crazy things is a big "Huh?!"

The next Olympics in Milano Cortina should feature a segment that honors kitchen sinks, since just about everything but those are now featured in opening and closing presentations.

[Olympics2028]

1 hour ago, olympian.br said:

The Eiffel tower special effects were quite good

The planners should have made the entire ceremony the last few minutes. As the saying goes, less is more.

[Rob2012]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

But Sebastien, we can’t have a world where if someone calls out or criticises a portion of a ceremony… they’re automatically labelled. People can have opposing views but be civil. 
 

im a Christian, and I found this element of the ceremony crass. However, at the time when I saw the drag queens walk on the catwalk, I called someone out for mocking .. and said it represented diversity. I stand by that. 
 

for me, I don’t like any religion being parodied. It’s just insensitive. 
 

Those calling out this section on social media, a lot of them are clearly homophobic. That is wrong and should also be called out. 
 

that’s my last word on this topic. I’d rather focus on the sports and the games experience. 

Thanks, and since this is your last word, don't feel you have to reply.

What I would say is that this looks like a giant shitstorm about nothing. It looks like it was Greek Gods being depicted after all, and that the outrage from the usual suspects in the right-wing media has made other people outraged and so we end up with a stupid culture war.

I will say that the commentary and the direction could've been much better, but I don't think even that could've avoided the bad faith actors grifting for clicks.

I'm going to have to disagree with you very strongly that religion shouldn't be subject to parody/artistic interpretation. And if this was a depiction of the Last Supper it was whacky and irreverent rather than in any way malicious - just like much of the rest of the ceremony. But it almost certainly wasn't the Last Supper anyway, so the point is moot.

Lastly, of course, I appreciate you calling out homophobic takes.

Edited July 28 by Rob2012

[Michelle]

15 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

Lastly, of course, I appreciate you calling out homophobic takes.

Discrimination of any kind should be called out. 

[guilherme b]

 

 

 

[FYI]

^Just the usual anti-'liberal' "woke" (what a silly rants supposed TBW) rants from conservative media. So what is new.

[FYI]

2 hours ago, sebastien1214 said:

The same people who always end up shouting about cancel culture and who end up literally doing what they denounce. So ironic.

I've called that out here before as well. But lately, they've seem to have recoiled a bit from that angle here, cause they're way too busy trying to "cancel" the other side again in an election year here.

2 hours ago, venuedesignlover said:

Do we think this is putting a damp on the games?

No. It's only "dampen" the conservative nutjobs (it's only a big deal to them. Oh, & of course to the GB's ceremony verdict thread, as usual). Everyone else, like the spectators, & especially the athletes on the ground in Paris, are focusing on the sport & their competitions, as it should be. 

[FYI]

1 hour ago, sebastien1214 said:

I am sure that given the number of people on this forum, statistically there must be one or more homosexual people. I am not interested in knowing who and how many. 

I guess then that you missed this little juicy comment from the very poster that you're responded to, about "it's gayer here (meaning this website of GB's) than down the yellow brick road with Judi Garland". Cause it's definitely more than "one" or two on here that are. 

Which then brings me to this, I know you just said in that last part that you don't care to know who is or isn't gay here, or how many there are here. But now I'm a little curious to know if you are or aren't gay then. Because that seems like a bizarre thing to say if you are.

1 hour ago, Olympics2028 said:

Isn't it actually transphobic? Or what's the label for people who don't like seeing transvestites? Tranvestitephobic?

You would think. But to the haters, it's all the same to them. 

[Rob2012]

Youtube vids from Newsmax, TalkTV, and GBNews eh? Been a long while since I utilised the ignore list on this forum, but this one's going on there.

[guilherme b]

 

[sebastien1214]

37 minutes ago, FYI said:

Which then brings me to this, I know you just said in that last part that you don't care to know who is or isn't gay here, or how many there are here. But now I'm a little curious to know if you are or aren't gay then. Because that seems like a bizarre thing to say if you are.

No I'm not. I just wanted to say that no matter if we are concerned or not, no matter if there are people concerned in the community where we are or not, we should all oppose and denounce any form of discrimination. (but I guess it sounded better in French than in English)

[Olympics2028]

1 hour ago, guilherme b said:

 

 

FWIW, Da Vinci's Last Supper is a fresco in Italy, not a moveable object per se. If Thomas Jolly wanted a more Paris/French-centric opening, he could have done some gimmicky thing themed to the Mona Lisa. That painting is the highlight of the Louvre museum in Paris. But knowing him, he'd have shown the Mona Lisa with a mustache or something like that. However, that segment of the show have been more regionally fitting or conceptually appropriate.

[Sir Rols]

 

10 hours ago, LOUIS said:

I 've never talked about the opinion of the people of your own country... My exact words were " I 'm glad that the French liked it". My post was about international reactions on the net. Maybe I'm wrong, but I 've never seen anything like that in the past...

it’s actually pretty on par with social media discourse in this day and age. Where Star Wars and Marvel moves get review bombed before release if they cast a woman, Asian or gay in a role. Where an upcoming Where peer-reviewed science and medical advice is pummelled by crackpot conspiracies. Where democratic elections are swamped in a mire of shouting disinformation to destroy trust in objective truths. The latest reactions are right in tune with this era where the alt-right has seized on the megaphone of digital media to amplify “outrage” and poison public debate through manufactured “culture wars”. 

7 hours ago, guilherme b said:

 

I don't think defending my view on an attack on my religion makes me homophobic, nor does it give you the right to call me that. Believe me, I consider myself much more liberal than most people. In fact, I don't care about anyone's sexual orientation,

Sorry, you don’t get to pull that line when you also come on here to post vile sh!t like:

On 7/27/2024 at 10:20 AM, guilherme b said:

 

A complete freak show, without cohesion, sense, continuity, or connection to the Olympics, athletes, and the games.

It seems someone on the committee decided to put a bunch of gays and make a totally woke ceremony, defending the progressive agenda, to then intermingle with athletes and try to relate it to the games. The result was an amalgamation of exaggerations with a circus of aberrations.… Instead of can-can, we have trisal sex; instead of eternal works of art, we have a gay Last Supper. Instead of ballet, we see vogue dancers waving their hands as if swatting flies in the middle of strokes. Instead of the best classical music and opera, techno and rock performances.

I make no apologies for calling that out as homophobia slurs.

3 hours ago, Michelle said:

But Sebastien, we can’t have a world where if someone calls out or criticises a portion of a ceremony… they’re automatically labelled. People can have opposing views but be civil. 
 

im a Christian, and I found this element of the ceremony crass. However, at the time when I saw the drag queens walk on the catwalk, I called someone out for mocking .. and said it represented diversity. I stand by that. 
 

for me, I don’t like any religion being parodied. It’s just insensitive. 
 

Those calling out this section on social media, a lot of them are clearly homophobic. That is wrong and should also be called out. 
 

that’s my last word on this topic. I’d rather focus on the sports and the games experience. 

Michelle, I do accept and respect your views. We’ve often disagreed, but respectfully, and you’ve always been a great ally to us gays on the board. I also have other close catholic friends who are nothing but supportive of gay rights while also sensitive to their faith. I respect their, and your, beliefs as long as they don’ denigrate my right to be visible. I don’t think you’ve ever crossed that line.

For my part, I would just suggest that the ceremony, and the now notorious image, were not attacks on faith. There was no depiction of cross burning, bible profanation or clergy ridicule. Merely a blink or you’d miss it tableau mimicking a cliched pose in popular culture. I see it as a huge stretch to ascribe to it anything but a playful poke at diversity, rather than a deliberate anti-clerical attack or rejection of faith.

Edited July 28 by Sir Rols

[Citius Altius Fortius]

3 hours ago, JesseSaenz said:

€2,700!

Just to see it on a small screen! 

 

Those tickets should have been €100 at absolute most. Not even kidding.

I think I paid about 800 € for a ticket at the 2012 OC - I really understand your anger about the „ceremony“ last Friday! 

[Rob2012]

3 hours ago, JesseSaenz said:

€2,700!

Just to see it on a small screen! 

 

Those tickets should have been €100 at absolute most. Not even kidding.

That's insane.

This is the REAL scandal of this ceremony.

I hope you manage to enjoy the rest of the Games still.

Edited July 28 by Rob2012

[Olympics2028]

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

I see it as a huge stretch to ascribe to it anything but a playful poke at diversity, rather than a deliberate anti-clerical attack or rejection of faith.

The IOC and the 2024 OOC and everyone else just need to be open and transparent about their politics.

I'd rather the IOC/2024 OOC come out and express why they think their ideology or cultural philosophy is good and leave it at that. Then rightwingers can come out and articulate their opinions and leave it at that. Or visa versa.

False apologies or fake flattery is insincere.

[Sir Rols]

1 minute ago, Olympics2028 said:

The IOC and the 2024 OOC and everyone else just need to be open and transparent about their politics.

Which is quite clearly diversity, tolerance and globalism - it’s their whole point.

[Michelle]

15 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Michelle, I do accept and respect your views. We’ve often disagreed, but respectfully, and you’ve always been a great ally to us gays on the board. I also have other close catholic friends who are nothing but supportive of gay rights while also sensitive to their faith. I respect their, and your, beliefs as long as they don’ denigrate my right to be visible. I don’t think you’ve ever crossed that line.

For my part, I would just suggest that the ceremony, and the now notorious image, were not attacks on faith. There was no depiction of cross burning, bible profanation or clergy ridicule. Merely a blink or you’d miss it tableau mimicking a cliched pose in popular culture. I see it as a huge stretch to ascribe to it anything but a playful poke at diversity, rather than a deliberate anti-clerical attack or rejection of faith.

Gamesbids has always been an inclusive forum, which I uphold. Anyone being inflammatory towards gay people has no right being on this site. 

It is possible I’m just particularly sensitive at the moment, as I have had to lean on my faith due to personal circumstances. 

I’ve drawn a line under this issue. I understand some are boycotting the games over the issue; obviously that is ludicrous and wrong! 

And yes, we have often disagreed! It feels like a lifetime ago when we were active on these boards! I’d like to think we are both more refined with a few more years behind us!