mich@el Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 If Russia were so "first world", then they'd be in the European Union, but they're not. Do you really think that Russia needs entering the EU????? It is not even going to. Because being a member of the EU means not having only advantages. This means also having a lot of responsibilities. Russia don't want to have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Another International Herald Tribune article here. Link: International Herald Tribune: Cities Present Bids For 2014 Winter Olympics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taichi Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I can see it now. Whoever gets the winter games for 2014 will be showing at the closing ceremonies in Vancouver for what's in store for 2014. I'm still dreaming on what's going to happen in 2014. Good luck to Salzburg, Pyeong Chang and Sochi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamus21514 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 I hope salzburg wins, because Russia is seemingly losing its democracy, and Salzburg has good slpoes nearby, and of course, is one of the world's most cultured cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamus21514 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 I hope salzburg wins, because Russia is seemingly losing its democracy, and Salzburg has good slpoes nearby, and of course, is one of the world's most cultured cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich@el Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 I hope salzburg wins, because Russia is seemingly losing its democracy, and Salzburg has good slpoes nearby, and of course, is one of the world's most cultured cities. Well... I don't think that you know a lot about democracy in Russia... Your (and not only your) sources are newspapers, TV programms and so on.. I live in Russia and I can't say I approve everything that our goverment does, but since Putin became the president of Russia people started living better. And that is the main thing... Russia is now growing economical and political power. So there is a strange thing: when Eltsin was a president Russia was a country that agreed everything it was said to do... And no one doubted in it's democracy. Now when Russia became independent from other countries politics and other people from all over the world say that it is losing it's democracy. Hey, stop that. We're russia people and we decide what is good for us and what is not. And speaking about OG. Is Chuna democratic country? No. It's the country where still communist party is the main (and in fact the only one) poltical power. But that meant nothing when China was given SOG 2008. So what is the problem, huh? Russia can organise brilliant WOG... It is the fact... So the only question is: will IOC believe in it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Well... I don't think that you know a lot about democracy in Russia... Your (and not only your) sources are newspapers, TV programms and so on.. I live in Russia and I can't say I approve everything that our goverment does, but since Putin became the president of Russia people started living better. And that is the main thing... Russia is now growing economical and political power. So there is a strange thing: when Eltsin was a president Russia was a country that agreed everything it was said to do... And no one doubted in it's democracy. Now when Russia became independent from other countries politics and other people from all over the world say that it is losing it's democracy. Hey, stop that. We're russia people and we decide what is good for us and what is not. And speaking about OG. Is Chuna democratic country? No. It's the country where still communist party is the main (and in fact the only one) poltical power. But that meant nothing when China was given SOG 2008. So what is the problem, huh? Russia can organise brilliant WOG... It is the fact... So the only question is: will IOC believe in it... mich@el, mich@el, 2014 will prove to be a good learning curve fo Sochi. I think the experience Sochi 2014 picks up this time will help you for the 2018 run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 3 months to go until the vote. Do you guys agree with the new BidIndex numbers that has come out yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 3 months to go until the vote. Do you guys agree with the new BidIndex numbers that has come out yesterday? Yeah, I do actually. The reasonings Rob gave were pretty convincing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Yeah, I do actually. The reasonings Rob gave were pretty convincing too. I second that, roltel. It does seem to be that it could be a close call, in terms of the IOC vote in Guatemala City, and Rob gave good explanations for determining the numbers used here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!VamosSochi! Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Rob gave good explanations for determining the numbers used here. Cannot disagree more. IMHO very biased argument selection with regards to Sochi. Sochi has LESS construction to do and MORE resources guaranteed than London. But London was not predicted by BidIndex either anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggler Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 I´m waiting till the evaluation report is released before i take any predictions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 "IMHO very biased argument selection with regards to Sochi". Not any more "bias" than what your arguments are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Do you guys agree with the new BidIndex numbers that has come out yesterday? Most definitely. Not even factored in there is the all-out push being made by the uber-influential TOP sponsor, Samsung. That will definitely be a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!VamosSochi! Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Not any more "bias" than what your arguments are. I agree. However, I do not pretend I'm unbised (see my nick) and the index does pretend to be objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Does Sochi not require the most contruction versus Salzburg & Pyeongchang? It's calling the bids how they are, so how is that "pretending" to be objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Does Sochi not require the most contruction versus Salzburg & Pyeongchang? It's calling the bids how they are, so how is that "pretending" to be objective. Yes. However, it doesn't mean that it does not have the potential to win in the end. In fact, this is starting to remind me of this very same scenario back in the 1980s, if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 No one is saying that Sochi doesn't have the potential, because we all know that bids full of promises (*cough* Beijing) have won in the past, but it's in reference about the bid index being tagged "pretending to be objective", when in fact it's very objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!VamosSochi! Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 it's very objective. Just think about it. What's NEW happen in the last three months (since the previous edition of the Index) in terms of constructing the venues to suddenly down Sochi and top PC? The number of things to construct was known ever since the questionnare times. I do not have enough information to conclude that the Index is not objective, may be it is (relatively). My point is that the Index is a 'black box' and the few arguments selected to illustrate the recent movements look like the strengths of one city vs the weaknesses of the other two. E.g. PC is praised for legacy, when Sochi would build Russia's (and surrounding Caucasus, Central Asian and Middle Eastern countries) ONLY bobsleigh track, ski jump and alpine course. Just think about this legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 "What's NEW happen in the last three months (since the previous edition of the Index) in terms of contructing the venues to suddenly down Sochi and top PC? The number of things to construct was known ever since the questionaire times." Just think about it. The IOC Evaluation Commission's RECENT visits to the bid cities & the news conferences thereafter. And I'm sure once the IOC E.C. report comes out, the bid-index will change yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 "What's NEW happen in the last three months (since the previous edition of the Index) in terms of contructing the venues to suddenly down Sochi and top PC? The number of things to construct was known ever since the questionaire times."Just think about it. The IOC Evaluation Commission's RECENT visits to the bid cities & the news conferences thereafter. And I'm sure once the IOC E.C. report comes out, the bid-index will change yet again. Indeed. When I read the Evaluation Commission's press release on Sochi, the tone in the article made it sound as if the EC thought Sochi really just had too much to do before 2014. I think it's great they're an Olympic power and all, but they'll still be an Olympic power for decades to come, and to give the Games to a city that isn't ready to host just because the country is an Olympic power is to give in to extreme sentimentality. Why doesn't Sochi start building up infrastructure and then bid again in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!VamosSochi! Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 The IOC Evaluation Commission's RECENT visits to the bid cities & the news conferences thereafter. I remember at the three press-conferences there were both strong and weak points mentioned for all the three cities. Yet suspiciosly only one kind was selected to represent the Index movements for the cities. And I'm sure once the IOC E.C. report comes out, the bid-index will change yet again. As a matter of fact on the eve of the 2010 vote the Index predicted the exact opposite to the actual results of the first round of voting. So changing it before the 2014 vote will likely increase its creditworthiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 "I remember at the three press conferences there were both strong and weak points mentioned for all the three cities. Yet 'suspiciously' only one kind was selected to represent the Index movements for the cities." Yes, but also remember that Sochi received the most criticism out of the three. So really it's only your plain & absolute bias that wants to plummet Salzurg & Pyeongchang to the same degree, when that is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!VamosSochi! Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 received the most criticism out of the three Untrue, IMHO. I was present at two of the three press-conferences and I can assure you that Sochi got ZERO criticism, unlike the other cities. When specifically asked about any 'weak points' in Sochi plan, the chairman said there was none. Rather he noted a couple of 'challenges', one of which was the amount of construction to do. I can witness that he spoke of the construction 'challenge' as an oppotunity to produce a perfect Games. He even quoted previous OWGs that had similar construction amounts and were wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm Jeremie Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 When specifically asked about any 'weak points' in Sochi plan, the chairman said there was none. Rather he noted a couple of 'challenges', one of which was the amount of construction to do. I can witness that he spoke of the construction 'challenge' as an oppotunity to produce a perfect Games. If you have studied the olympic bid races for quite some times, you know that "Challenges" is the IOC diplomatic version for weak points. I am not saying that Sochi stands no chance but one has to admit that the construction task has been pointed out as a "challenge", that can be indeed turned into an opportunity but that is nevertheless a weak poit for Sochi compared to Salzburg and, to a lesser extent, to PyeongChang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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