baron-pierreIV Posted September 27, 2008 Report Share Posted September 27, 2008 Sydney wasn't overly complicated, it was the simple fact that they had not tested it with an actual flame to see if it work, in which had they did and saw the stalling, would have reconfigured it to go up more smoothly. The concept of fire over water is simple and symbolic, once the cauldron got over the hurdle of the that "bug", it went up the stadium more smoothly. I say Sydney has the best torch lighting. Who says Barcelona will never be topped? There can easily be torch lighting moments where the flame is given to an Olympic/Paralympic archer at one end of the stadium, only to fire it towards the other end, which has the cauldron, which then extends itself, over an extravagant waterfall feature, so that it can be clearly seen from miles around. Beijing's torch lighting was good, innovative, but if only the torch lighter had not "run" faster than the projected scroll, or had there been some proper rehearsal or syncing of the moving scroll. I say Barcelona will NEVER be topped. There was such ease, simplicity, levity about the lighting -- an airborne majesty about it. Nothing like Beijing or Sydney...for which you needed f*cking machinery, and cables and pulleys and winches, and pools of water, and projections, etc., etc., to carry them off. Yes, Sydney's was also very impressive but there was a lot of prep work and construction, etc., to accomplish it. Beijing's concept was similarly imaginative -- on paper -- but the whole thing was too contrived and so f*ckingly COMPLICATED to set up. About your claims that there weren't enough tests? Nonsense. All of these had several tests. It's just that Sydney and Beijing were trying too hard that it couldn't quite go right. How do the old sayings go? The best laid plans of mice and men... and Less is more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Beijing's concept was similarly imaginative -- on paper -- but the whole thing was too contrived and so f*ckingly COMPLICATED to set up. There must've been at least 15 people hoisting, guiding and directing Li Ning behind the scenes and pointing those projections in sync, for him to get to that damned scroll-torch. Antonio Rebollo was the ONLY one needed to light the Barcelona cauldron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savas Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Actually Barcelona was topped, at least for me. I loved the simple but perfect arranged idea of the cauldron bowing down to the athlete in a so natural and logical way. The direct lighting and the fantastic, dramatic music of Debussy and Shostakovich were just amazing. The Athens cauldron is perfectly integrated into the stadium. I like the Barcelona lighting very much. The only thing that bothers me a little bit is that the arrow didnt really lit the cauldron. A not direct lighting isnt perfect for me. Sydney was also quite nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Actually Barcelona was topped, at least for me. I loved the simple but perfect arranged idea of the cauldron bowing down to the athlete #1 - Why should the cauldron 'bow down' to the athlete? It's not a living thing. #2 - Barcelona's arrow was NOT meant to land smack in the cauldron. Have you ever lit a gas stove? You only brush it lightly with the flame. That's all that's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savas Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 Why not? It was a symbolic act. Even if it is not a living thing it can have a symbolic and emotional value. In the same way as a family house has a strong emotional value or as an airplane can fly in the sky as birds do. Human always relate to artificial human creations an emotional characteristic. As i said i think Barcelona was great but the lighting was not a direct one. Perhaps we can meet someday and you can show me how to lit a gas stove with an arrow that flies with a spped of 310 feet per second above it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 It's pointless to argue with you, savas, because like pyrros, you greeks are ... exceedingly jingoistic -- yours is always best whether it is or it isn't. It shows in nearly every statement you (and he) post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 I say Barcelona will be very, very difficult to top. There was such ease, simplicity, levity about the lighting -- an airborne majesty about it. Nothing like Beijing or Sydney...for which you needed f*cking machinery, and cables and pulleys and winches, and pools of water, and projections, etc., etc., to carry them off. Yes, Sydney's was also very impressive but there was a lot of prep work and construction, etc., to accomplish it. Beijing's concept was similarly imaginative -- on paper -- but the whole thing was too contrived and so f*ckingly COMPLICATED to set up. About your claims that there weren't enough tests? Nonsense. All of these had several tests. It's just that Sydney and Beijing were trying too hard that it couldn't quite go right. How do the old sayings go? The best laid plans of mice and men... and Less is more. Small change, otherwise I agree with this post completely. Sydney's was fantastic, better than Beijing's in my opinion, but Barcelona still tops them all. In terms of emotional impact Atlanta takes some beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savas Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 It's pointless to argue with you, savas, because like pyrros, you greeks are ... exceedingly jingoistic -- yours is always best whether it is or it isn't. It shows in nearly every statement you (and he) post. Huh,.. what's now wrong? This was a quite friendly response Baron and ment to be a joke. Relax a little bit,... don't take everything as an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicGames Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 As i said i think Barcelona was great but the lighting was not a direct one. What do you mean it "was not a direct one"? The flaming arrow flew through the cloud of natural gas rising above the cauldron and ignited it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 What do you mean it "was not a direct one"? The flaming arrow flew through the cloud of natural gas rising above the cauldron and ignited it. Not meaning to speak for savas, but what he means is a 'direct' transfer of the flame from the final torchbearer's hand/torch DIRECTLY to the cauldron -- no interruption of the line of the flame. Barcelona's flame moved from Epi's torch to the arrow -- and then a break from human contact when it left Rebollo's bow...flew into the air...and then lit the cauldron. Unlike say...Montreal, Lake Placid, LA, Nagano, Sydney, Salt Lake, yes, Athens, etc., etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruling Czar Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Barcelona still remains the most exhilirating by far with Sydney second. yet it can still be topped.............by a flaming javlin or better yet a flaming hammer ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY20?? Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 In terms of emotional impact Atlanta takes some beating. I think the way Atlanta tried to woo everyone was with Muhammad Ali. If so, it worked. I always here people talk about how they felt when they saw him emerge from the shadows to receive the flame, nevermind the lame lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Yes, that's what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY20?? Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Oh, my bad. I took "takes some beating" the wrong way. W/e, moving on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonafin Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Barcelona still remains the most exhilirating by far with Sydney second. yet it can still be topped.............by a flaming javlin or better yet a flaming hammer ! Lol, for that to happen, the organisers of the ceremony would have to clear out the side of the stadium that has the cauldron. Flaming trajectories are always dangerous, very good idea on paper, but yeah, dangerous and kinda like an overblown Barcelona lighting. Even if the person who was going to do it practiced many times, a lot of factors outside of the person's control would still be present, the doves of Seoul ring a bell. Did those doves really fly into the flame?? From videos that I have seen of the lighting sequence, it seemed to me, that that doves were just sitting on the cauldron top (not flying through the flame), and it was only after it was lit that some of the unfortunate burning birds tried to get away... Sydney would have to be at the top for me, being the first one I have ever seen. Which then got me interested in the whole Olympic movement... Barcelona was great and simple, as was Athens. However Beijing for me, would have to be a close second, even though some people here thought it was overly complicated. Using too much technology and crap like that, i guess is a fair arguement for some people to use in deciding what they think is a better way of doing things. But yeah, as human beings, our technology plays a big part in who we are, and my guess is that as technolgy is only gettin better, its going to play a bigger part in all ceremonies, let alone the way to light a cauldron. On that note, what do people actually think of the design of the cauldron (not the way it was lighted or by whom)?? Do people prefer those cauldrons that look more like a traditional bowl for the flame to sit in (eg. Barcelona)?? Or are the more modern designs (Nagano, Sydney, Salt Lake City, Athens and Beijing) more acceptable?? --- I personally think that as long as it ties in with the theme (which may be a more recent part of the relay) and the torch, that the design of the cauldron is successful, regardless of personal taste. Isn't the main goal of the cauldron, to display the flame so that everyone can see it and gather inspiration from it? Another point that makes all cauldrons successful. The cauldron itself, is a mere vessel. Design wise, I like Beijing's, Nagano's, Sydney's, and Athens's cauldrons. Take Care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY20?? Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 On that note, what do people actually think of the design of the cauldron (not the way it was lighted or by whom)??... I personally think that as long as it ties in with the theme (which may be a more recent part of the relay) and the torch, that the design of the cauldron is successful, regardless of personal taste I agree, but I do think personal taste must have some say in it. Anyway, out of recent or so editions, my two favorites would be Salt Lake 2002 and Beijing 2008. Salt Lake's integrated both the design of the torch and rest of the SL2002 brand- namely the Look and slogan/motto. And Beijing's was a huge and dramatic interpretation of the torch's scroll design furling up from the Bird's Nest's upper rim; really creative. Oh and thank Jesus they didn't go with some ridiculous dragon / phoenix / swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA84 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 I say Barcelona will NEVER be topped. There was such ease, simplicity, levity about the lighting -- an airborne majesty about it. Nothing like Beijing or Sydney...for which you needed f*cking machinery, and cables and pulleys and winches, and pools of water, and projections, etc., etc., to carry them off. Yes, Sydney's was also very impressive but there was a lot of prep work and construction, etc., to accomplish it. I haven't read these posts in awhile because it always becomes a pissing match. But as per usual, the Baron makes the most valid point. Take away the hydraulics, computers, wires wizardry - the eliminates everything from LA to Bejing. Except one - Barcelona. Prior to that - Moscow and Melbourne as the most noteworthy from a "wow" standpoint. You try and carry a cherry bomb! Whoever suggested a javelin lightin a torch - I am sending that to Chicago 2016 Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA84 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 P.S. - the best entrance of a torch EVERY into the stadium. This will never be surpassed. Atlanta's was cool coming out of the ground in the center of the stadium but nothing like this. Clicky Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicGames Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 I haven't read these posts in awhile because it always becomes a pissing match. But as per usual, the Baron makes the most valid point. Take away the hydraulics, computers, wires wizardry - the eliminates everything from LA to Bejing. What kind of "Hydraulics, computers, wires wizardry" did LA have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA84 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 What kind of "Hydraulics, computers, wires wizardry" did LA have? Rolled in a stairway that hydrologically raised it up to the spout that carried the flame to the cauldron. See at 0:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicGames Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Rolled in a stairway that hydrologically raised it up to the spout that carried the flame to the cauldron.See at 0:29 Eh, barely. And "hydrologically"??? Try "Hydraulically" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA84 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Eh, barely. And "hydrologically"??? Try "Hydraulically" Thank you spelling police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicGames Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Thank you spelling police. Dude, "hydrologically" isn't even a case of criminal spelling, it's a case of pure ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA84 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Dude, "hydrologically" isn't even a case of criminal spelling, it's a case of pure ignorance. An example of why New Yorkers get such a bad rap for being rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 /\ Actually, I think I've seen a L'Oreal ad which uses 'hydrologically' or something close to that. Yaknow how those beautiful-skin products are...leading edge technology and language!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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