¡hola! From Santiago

[HFB-Melbourne]

G´day

After my brief but clearly shining time on the forum, I set off for South America. I´ve been in Santiago for a couple of weeks now, and I head over to Argentina tomorrow.

Santiago could host an Olympics. No doubt about it, winter or summer. It´s a fantastic city. Although, if i´d made this post 2 days after arriving, i´d´ve said something more along the lines of ´Santiago is a shithole and if this is the most westernised city in Latin America then there´s a probablem over here´.

It isn´t perfect, of course, and there are many negatives in olympic host potential terms, and other terms as well, but...

It is a great city, and the people are great...I expected Santiago to be a 1-week jetlag recovery session, but i´ve fallen in love withit. My Spanish has gone from nada to muy poco, but there is a long way to go yet.

I can only recommend it to you all in moderate terms as a place for a short visit. If you´re here to see a couple of sights for a couple of days before heading off somewhere, it´s worthless. But if you come and spend a couple of weeks here, you´ll fall in love with it too. It´s not historic London or romantic Paris; stunning Sydney or busy New York, it´s pleasant Santiago. I´ll miss it, and i´m not even a local.

Anyway, on to Argentina. I expect to enjoy it too, but Santiago will always be special to me, I think.

Maybe not quite as special as home, but special enough that i´ve enjoyed having it as my home for a couple of weeks, and the games would too.

HFB

[Sir Rols]

Sounds like you're having a great time. Yeah, I agree, Santiago is a place that grows on you, and is certainly up to the Olympic task (even if the Chileans don't believe it themselves). I remember when I went to South America, I expected Argentina (Buenos Aires) to be the rich, bustling prosperous one and Santiago to be the middling backwater. Instead I found it the other way around. It's a pity you would have left already, I could have given you some Santiago visitors advice. Anyway, enjoy Argentina!

[KRATK]

Qué bueno que te haya gustado Santiago!!!

Now, enjoy Buenos Aires... and dance some tango

Where did you stay? Which places did you visit?

I'm sorry that you visited when we didn't have snow... Santiago looks amazing after the rain and with the Andes completly covered with snow like today.

Come back any time!!

[HFB-Melbourne]

Qué bueno que te haya gustado Santiago!!!

Now, enjoy Buenos Aires... and dance some tango

Where did you stay? Which places did you visit?

I'm sorry that you visited when we didn't have snow... Santiago looks amazing after the rain and with the Andes completly covered with snow like today.

Come back any time!!

Sí, lo gusto Santiago, pero yo hablas muy poco catillano...which caused some problems.

I stayed the first two nights at Hotel Nippon, 2 blocks south of Alameda near Plaza Italia. On a major bus route, which was just LOVELY.

Then, 11 nights at Hostel San Patricio, on Cathedral, near Cumming Station in Barrio Brasil. Everyone says it´s a dangerous area but it was really nice, and I spent a lot of time in Plaza Brasil, had some convos with Pinguinistas etc....how is that going by the way? I heard Bachelet gave in to a lot of their demands but they weren´t saisfied...will the LOCE get changed?

I vbisited a lot of areas rather then sights-I mean, people are far more interesting then statues. That said, I did visit Estacion Mapocho (I think that´s what it´s called, at the end of the Parko de los Reyes) and the Museum of Fine Arts. I walked through most of the Pizza-wedge Centro, and spent a lot of time near Plaza Brasil. I also went east along Av. Providencia, and took the metro to Los Leones one night and Escuela Militar another, where I met up with a friend and we spent some time in that area and in El Golf. Also went to Bellavista another time with the same guy, and I spent some time around USACH when I was buying my ticket to Mendoza.

Santiago was wonderful, i´m looking forward to getting back there.

The trip across the Andes was enough snow for me-i´m Aussie after all-and the drive up to the border crossing on the Chilean side was AMAZING, especially that 20-something fold serpentine up one of the mountains. The Argentinian side wasn´t as nice, but we crossed over at dusk so it was dark after a bit anyway.

Mendoza was alright, sort of like three Traralgons stuck together. Perfectly pleasant, but boring until you get out of town, and I didn´t really have time for that. Now i´m in Córdoba after a truly awful bus trip-the scenery was boring, and 11 hour bus trips are never good. In San Luis province especially, all you get is dead boring low shrubbery that all looks the same. Mendoza and Córdoba provinces were a bit better, but not much. San Luis (the town) was just a hole, although we were only there for a little while. Mercedes was not much better, but it was actually better.

Córdoba, I was informed, was a great place. It isn´t. Mendoza is far nicer, although I think it might just be the fact that they actually have trees there. I was planning on staying here for a few days, but i´ll be going on to BsAs pretty soon I think. The only problem is that check out is at 10am and the first bus I can find that goes to BsAs leaves at 10:20pm. But I´ll try and find somewhere at the bus station I can leave my big pack at least.

I´ll reserve my judgement until I´ve spent at least a week in BsAs, but so far my impression of Argentina is that it is just an uglier, less friendly, cheaper Chile, with most of the good parts of Chile taken away. But I only saw Santiago, and maybe Chile´s smaller cities are like Argentina´s, so...I´m open to having a good time in BsAs, but so far Argentina hasn´t been all that great.

HFB

[HFB-Melbourne]

Buenos Aires is seriously overrated. Montevideo is next, then Colinia, then up to the Iguacu Falls, then camping in Paraguay (muy barato) then back to Cordoba, and back to Buenos Aires as hops down to Puerto Madryn, where I'll spend some time, head across to Peninsular Valdes, Trelew etc., and then cross Patagonia to Bariloche, then across the Andes to Puerto Montt in Chile, then southern Chile in August (hey, i'm australian, I can cope with the cold), then back up to Santiago and then home.

BsAs is alright, but...it just isn't that great. Everyone says it's fantastic, but...it really isn't. It's just a dirtier, busier, ruder, less interesting Melbourne or Santiago or any other big city. Maybe it's better in summer, but in winter at least, it's nothing spesh.

Bring on country number 3...i'll probably leave around Friday, but I have to get over my flu first (that hasn't really helped improve my position on BsAs)

HFB

[Sir Rols]

Hope you're having a great time despite the flu! When you head to patagonia, will you be visiting Chilean patagonia _ Punta Arenas, Puerto Natales, the peaks of Torres del Paine _ I'd really recommend doing so, the area is spectacular!

You've been missing heady times in Australia with the WC. We're all disappointed we missed out on the quarter finals, but the support and interest here has been amazing!

And I agree with you on BA _ I wasn't impressed either. I always think of the phrase "faded glory" whenever I think of BA.

[Faster]

I am trying to find this place at the tip of Argentina that roughly translates to the ends of the earth I believe, any help?

[jimjam]

Hmm – I LOVED Buenos Aires. I thought it was fantastic and beautiful. I agree with the faded glamour – but for me it just made it atmospheric. I also thought that the people were really friendly (some especially if you know what I mean ).

Argentina was my favourite country in South America by quite some way – I loved the food, the wine, the people. It was summer in Buenos Aires and really hot when I was there and if anything that was the biggest problem for me (being very pale skinned). It did mean that the south of the country was good though – and I agree Torres del Paine is great. The Moreno Glacier is also worth a visit.

Santiago is a great city too – but for me it doesn’t come close to BsAs.

Hope you are enjoying your trip though. If you are getting the chance to go to Bolivia do the famous bike ride from La Paz – scary as sh1t but a great day out.

I am trying to find this place at the tip of Argentina that roughly translates to the ends of the earth I believe, any help?

Maybe you are thinking of Ushuaia? There is something like the 'Train at the end the world' there (or something similar). Ushuaia is also the kick off point for most tours around the South Pole region. Not really a great town - but lots of wildlife etc makes it worth a visit if you have the time.

[KRATK]

Sí, lo gusto Santiago, pero yo hablas muy poco catillano...which caused some problems.

I stayed the first two nights at Hotel Nippon, 2 blocks south of Alameda near Plaza Italia. On a major bus route, which was just LOVELY.

Then, 11 nights at Hostel San Patricio, on Cathedral, near Cumming Station in Barrio Brasil. Everyone says it´s a dangerous area but it was really nice, and I spent a lot of time in Plaza Brasil, had some convos with Pinguinistas etc....how is that going by the way? I heard Bachelet gave in to a lot of their demands but they weren´t saisfied...will the LOCE get changed?

No, Barrio Brasil it's quiet. I has an apartment next to the Plaza that I rent so I know the place... it's beatiful. About the "pingüinos" (well, I was one of them at least next year)... it's very complicated... I hope Bachelet fulfill her promess and I hope that the LOCE will be changed but I don't know, now we have to wait

I vbisited a lot of areas rather then sights-I mean, people are far more interesting then statues. That said, I did visit Estacion Mapocho (I think that´s what it´s called, at the end of the Parko de los Reyes) and the Museum of Fine Arts. I walked through most of the Pizza-wedge Centro, and spent a lot of time near Plaza Brasil. I also went east along Av. Providencia, and took the metro to Los Leones one night and Escuela Militar another, where I met up with a friend and we spent some time in that area and in El Golf. Also went to Bellavista another time with the same guy, and I spent some time around USACH when I was buying my ticket to Mendoza.

Santiago was wonderful, i´m looking forward to getting back there.

I can't believe you survived to USACH it's the most commie University here and most of the days you stayed here were in protests xD...

The trip across the Andes was enough snow for me-i´m Aussie after all-and the drive up to the border crossing on the Chilean side was AMAZING, especially that 20-something fold serpentine up one of the mountains. The Argentinian side wasn´t as nice, but we crossed over at dusk so it was dark after a bit anyway.

Mendoza was alright, sort of like three Traralgons stuck together. Perfectly pleasant, but boring until you get out of town, and I didn´t really have time for that. Now i´m in Córdoba after a truly awful bus trip-the scenery was boring, and 11 hour bus trips are never good. In San Luis province especially, all you get is dead boring low shrubbery that all looks the same. Mendoza and Córdoba provinces were a bit better, but not much. San Luis (the town) was just a hole, although we were only there for a little while. Mercedes was not much better, but it was actually better.

Córdoba, I was informed, was a great place. It isn´t. Mendoza is far nicer, although I think it might just be the fact that they actually have trees there. I was planning on staying here for a few days, but i´ll be going on to BsAs pretty soon I think. The only problem is that check out is at 10am and the first bus I can find that goes to BsAs leaves at 10:20pm. But I´ll try and find somewhere at the bus station I can leave my big pack at least.

I´ll reserve my judgement until I´ve spent at least a week in BsAs, but so far my impression of Argentina is that it is just an uglier, less friendly, cheaper Chile, with most of the good parts of Chile taken away. But I only saw Santiago, and maybe Chile´s smaller cities are like Argentina´s, so...I´m open to having a good time in BsAs, but so far Argentina hasn´t been all that great.

HFB

Emmm... I haven't crossed the Andes ever but I stayed at Portillo before so I know the experience of being there... it's just amazing. The problem with Argentina is that the influence of the Pacific is null so it's very dry... Mendoza was like desert until some years when they began to put a lot of trees and now it's a very touristic place for Chileans (because it's so cheap =D )... but the rest of the cities weren't nice.

The South of Chile and Argentina is totally different... it's amazing... especially in winter with all of this snow over the Andes and the Seven Lakes... Puerto Montt and Bariloche are incredible... then you HAVE to visit Chiloé and all of its wonderful culture (and food... I remember when I eat fresh salmon ~~~). If you can, visit San Rafael Glacier before going to Puerto Natales, Punta Arenas and Torres del Paine (I haven't visited there yet).

Faster... probably you're talking of Ushuaia, the southest city of the world (because Puerto Williams, at the other side of the Beagle Channel in Chile lost its title of city some years ago) and I believe it means "the end of the world" in selknam' or kaweshkar... jimjam, most of the travels to Antarctica start at Punta Arenas, not Ushuaia.

[Faster]

Its a point on the group of Islands south of Tierra del Fuego

[jimjam]

jimjam, most of the travels to Antarctica start at Punta Arenas, not Ushuaia.

As per the Lonely Planet website

"The only way to access Antarctica independently is by private yacht and even these craft are increasingly offering passage for fare-paying customers. The French seem to like arriving at Antarctica by yacht and most of the yacht-based tours of the region are offered by French skippers. But sailing to Antarctica is serious stuff and yachties should not be flippant about the perils. In the last 30 years more than 150 private sailing vessels have anchored at Antarctica. The main tourist gateway city to Antarctica is Ushuaia (Argentina), about a two-day voyage to the South Shetland Islands, which are just north of the Antarctic Peninsula and a major Antarctic destination themselves. Be aware that some tour operators will include as many as three nights in South America as part of a 14-day Antarctica itinerary."

Link to Antarctica page on the Lonely Planet website

[KRATK]

Its a point on the group of Islands south of Tierra del Fuego

Cape Horn?

jimjam... I guess most of the crusiers from Punta Arenas also pass to Ushuaia... but the difference is that the flights to Antartica only starts from Punta Arenas to Villa Las Estrellas

[HFB-Melbourne]

Alrighty, well and truly back.

In the end, I did come to love Buenos Aires. Once I left the centro a bit more, and got over the flu, I started to enjoy it. I'd walk down to Puerto Madero more or less every day which I know is about the most westernised place in latin america, but I liked it, and also went out a few times in Palermo and stuff.

Then headed over to Montevideo. I fell in love with it. It was foggy and cold and I was low on cash when I got there, and basically spent a week wandering around. Spent an absolutely fantastic da6y along the rambla with an Irish guy before having dinner at a restaurant which had a live candombe show that night. Stunning. That day was one of my top 3 days for the whole trip.

After Montevideo I went to Colonia del Sacremantio, but it was raining all day the first day so I stayed a second and saw the town. Interesting enough, but not worth two days, because it meant that I missed the boat re: camping in paraguay.

From Colonia, I was trying to get straight to iguacvu. Not bloody easy. What I ended up doing was heading over to Fray Bentos for a night and then on to Rosario.

I found Fray Bentos to be really charming actually. I think the people there have the best way of living i've ever seen. No pretentions, little mettallic caravans selling hamburguesas, papas fritas and the ever-present heart-attack-in-waiting, CHIVITAS. A really nice riverfront with every teen in the town heading down there at dusk and sipping mate de fruta. Quite streets with hidden, beautiful parks; complete safety and the friendliest people. Uruguay was absolutely STUNNING, I loved it, and Fray Bentos certainly gave me a good send-off. I wish I could have stayed longer, but I already had my forward ticket on to Roasio, so I wasn't able to. I'll be back there though.

So, next stop Rosario. Initial plan was for one night only, but after some major accomodation problems, ended up in a great hostel about a 20-30 minute walk along the river from the town center. Great location, actually, because it gave me a glimpse into what passes for surburbia in Argentina (much better than our sprawl over here; kinda like a much duller inner city suburb rather than a Cranbourne or Craigieburn.I also found out that you could buy a two storey, two bedroom, reasonably well-looked after townhouse in Rosario for $30,000 pesos or so...$12,000 Aussie or something.I'm considering doing something like that in the future...even after the $2000 return air fares, you'll still be ahead over a beach house or something like that here after two decades, easy.

Rest later.