The Voice Referendum in Australia

[Sir Rols]

This topic has started to be brought up in the Brisbane threads to the point where it has started to become disruptive to normal discussions there (I suspect in some cases deliberately so). I figured it would be more productive to move such discussions here.

Basically, in 2017, Australian indigenous leaders met and issued what has become known as the Uluṟu Statement from the Heart, a document stating their wishes to non-indigenous Australians, setting forth a path general reconciliation, and calling for, in particular, a “Voice to Parliament”, a formal body to represent Aboriginal interests and advise the Government on matters specifically pertaining to the country’s Fist Nation people.

The Labor Party, under Anthony Albanese, came to power last year with a campaign promise to put the notion to the people through a referendum to establish such a voice and grant Aboriginal people recognition in the constitution.

That referendum will be held here on October 14.

Sadly, it’s become a divisive issue here. The main opposition party, the Liberals, have refused to support it, setting it up for almost inevitable defeat. There’s many reasons behind this, and a lot of finger pointing and heated arguments going on, which I won;t go into right now but which may get brought up in this thread.

I myself strongly support the Yes case for the Voice. I believe it is a modest proposal to advance reconciliation in this country. I do not believe it cedes any sovereignty and point to the fact that it is proposed as merely an advisory body with no extra powers beyond advice on strictly aboriginal matters with no onus on any government to enact such advice.

If I see posts, particularly disruptive posts, in the Brisbane threads, I will be moving them here.

 

 

 

[Australian Kiwi]

Thanks for taking the time to remove this important matter from the ridiculousness that the 2032 discussions have descending into. Apologies for my part in fuelling that but I feel pretty agitated by the obstinance of others. 

This week was rough, the comments by JNP were truly shocking and was at a Holocaust denial level of insanity. 

 

[AustralianFan]

 

On 9/2/2023 at 9:09 AM, Sir Rols said:

You only have to look at our upcoming referendum - what should be a commonsense and uncontroversial enshrining of an Indigenous Voice to Parliament is quite possibly facing an embarrassing and tragic defeat because of the forces of division and extremism. Mainstream political parties and the “sensible centre” can’t be taken for granted any more, and Australia’s not immune. And neither are the Olympics.      

Fully agree.

[AustralianFan]

Brisbane Olympics body throws its weight behind Voice’s Yes campaign

The Brisbane 2032 Olympic organising committee has joined other powerful sporting bodies in throwing its support behind the Yes campaign for an Indigenous Voice to parliament.

Credit: Brisbane Times - 4 September 2023

[AustralianFan]

Mitch Tambo performs The Voice in Gamilaraay language.

Can see Mitch in either of the Brisbane 2032 Ceremonies at the Gabba or whereever they are staged..

 

[Sir Rols]

I know we have Australian members here who identify as indigenous. I hope discussion here goes respectfully towards you. But I also have a question for you.

if the referendum fails, what will be your feeling? And how do you think the reaction will be among the indigenous community? One of betrayal? Anger? Is there likely to be a strong backlash in result of failure?

[AustralianFan]

Yes, makes it possible ❤️

 

 

 

[Australian Kiwi]

51 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I know we have Australian members here who identify as indigenous. I hope discussion here goes respectfully towards you. But I also have a question for you.

if the referendum fails, what will be your feeling? And how do you think the reaction will be among the indigenous community? One of betrayal? Anger? Is there likely to be a strong backlash in result of failure?

We know that referendums in Australia are almost always likely to fail.

My fear is that like Trump it can be perceived as an event that emboldens the right. This is why JNP worries me so much - shes playing with matches and throwing her own people under the bus for her own personal gain. Regardless of where you stand on the matter its objectively horrifying gaslighting. Like a Jewish grandchild denying the Holocaust happened to gain approval from the right. 

I feel like the left is usually in discourse held to a much higher standard than the right. There is a lot of onus on the left to make assurances that it will work, but there doesnt appear to be much heat on the No campaign on what their vision is if they succeed (which they will). Dutton has already said he'll hold another referendum, JNP disagrees with this - so its evident they haven't exactly given it much thought. 

I'm also worried about some of the blunt instrument blind tactics being employed by both sides (and very much including the Yes) that isn't meaningful and only superficial. Its sadly already exhibited here in this thread. This is happening more broadly and will be a major factor in the Yes vote failing as (surprise surprise) people don't react well to an onslaught of PR spin and messaging. Its a sad, dehumanising state of affairs. 

[Sir Rols]

4 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

We know that referendums in Australia are almost always likely to fail.

My fear is that like Trump it can be perceived as an event that emboldens the right. This is why JNP worries me so much - shes playing with matches and throwing her own people under the bus for her own personal gain. Regardless of where you stand on the matter its objectively horrifying gaslighting. Like a Jewish grandchild denying the Holocaust happened to gain approval from the right. 

I feel like the left is usually in discourse held to a much higher standard than the right. There is a lot of onus on the left to make assurances that it will work, but there doesnt appear to be much heat on the No campaign on what their vision is if they succeed (which they will). Dutton has already said he'll hold another referendum, JNP disagrees with this - so its evident they haven't exactly given it much thought. 

I'm also worried about some of the blunt instrument blind tactics being employed by both sides (and very much including the Yes) that isn't meaningful and only superficial. Its sadly already exhibited here in this thread. This is happening more broadly and will be a major factor in the Yes vote failing as (surprise surprise) people don't react well to an onslaught of PR spin and messaging. Its a sad, dehumanising state of affairs. 

Yes, very much Dutton has all along played this as his chance to get a punch in on Albo and resurrect their (and his) fortunes after being so defeated in last year’s election (as much by the Teals as by Labor). It’s classic culture war stuff to rebuild their base. And sooo cynical.

And I agree the debate has gone beyond civility - on both sides. So many lies and disinformation on the right. And the left does need to control its indignancy and not rely so much on superficial spin. Sadly, I think it’s too late.

[AustralianFan]

47 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I know we have Australian members here who identify as indigenous. I hope discussion here goes respectfully towards you. But I also have a question for you.

if the referendum fails, what will be your feeling? And how do you think the reaction will be among the indigenous community? One of betrayal? Anger? Is there likely to be a strong backlash in result of failure?

Of 44 referendums held in Australia, 8 have been successful.

Against the odds and against what pre-poll pundits predicted, a majority of Australians in a majority of states voted Yes in the 1967 Referendum.

The 1967 Referendum to this day remains the most successful in Australian history.

We didn’t have social media and so much electronic news and forumsback then, but on 27 May 1967, Australians voted Yes to both of these questions:

1. The first question, referred to as the 'nexus question', was an attempt to alter the balance of numbers in the Senate and the House of Representatives.
2. The second question was to determine whether two references in the Australian Constitution, which discriminated against Aboriginal people, should be removed. 

The removal of the words ‘… other than the aboriginal people in any State…' in section 51(xxvi) and the whole of section 127 were considered by many to be representative of the prevailing movement for political change within Indigenous affairs.

As a result of the political climate, this referendum saw the highest YES vote ever recorded in a Federal referendum, with 90.77 per cent voting for change.

Back then, just 56 years ago, literally a minute ago when compared to the 65,000 years that First Nations peoples have lived and cared for their various lands, Australia did not count it’s own Indigenous peoples in the National Census.  We came under the category of Flora and Fauna.  So, in other words, we didn’t exist as far as the Australian Consitition and machinery of government was concerned … in our own country.

So, @Sir Rols, I am only representing my view here and I cannot for any other Australian voting on 14 October.

30% of voters are reported to be in opinion polls still undecided, so that huge sway number keeps getting lost when speculating about which way the Voice vote will go.

I trust and pray that Australians will do the right thing.

 

 

[Sir Rols]

That’s all any of us can do is express personal views, and why most of us are here.

So, you, personally, would you feel angry or betrayed? I think that’s how I’d feel if I was indigenous.

[AustralianFan]

9 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Of 44 referendums held in Australia, 8 have been successful.

Against the odds and against what pre-poll pundits predicted, a majority of Australians in a majority of states voted Yes in the 1967 Referendum.

The 1967 Referendum to this day remains the most successful in Australian history.

We didn’t have social media and so much electronic news and forumsback then, but on 27 May 1967, Australians voted Yes to both of these questions:

1. The first question, referred to as the 'nexus question', was an attempt to alter the balance of numbers in the Senate and the House of Representatives.
2. The second question was to determine whether two references in the Australian Constitution, which discriminated against Aboriginal people, should be removed. 

The removal of the words ‘… other than the aboriginal people in any State…' in section 51(xxvi) and the whole of section 127 were considered by many to be representative of the prevailing movement for political change within Indigenous affairs.

As a result of the political climate, this referendum saw the highest YES vote ever recorded in a Federal referendum, with 90.77 per cent voting for change.

Back then, just 56 years ago, literally a minute ago when compared to the 65,000 years that First Nations peoples have lived and cared for their various lands, Australia did not count it’s own Indigenous peoples in the National Census.  We came under the category of Flora and Fauna.  So, in other words, we didn’t exist as far as the Australian Consitition and machinery of government was concerned … in our own country.

So, @Sir Rols, I am only representing my view here and I cannot for any other Australian voting on 14 October.

30% of voters are reported to be in opinion polls still undecided, so that huge sway number keeps getting lost when speculating about which way the Voice vote will go.

I trust and pray that Australians will do the right thing.

 

27 May 1967

The Most Successful Referendum in Australia’s History

This photo is of my Dad on the left holding the phone getting yes and no vote numberd on Referendum night in 1967.

Dad s on the left holding the phone and was a ❤️❤️ respected Aboriginal Elder and Leader.  Dad is with two other respected Aboriginal Elders and Leaders, the poet Uncle Jack Davis (centre) and Uncle Charlie Pell (right) together anxiously counting ‘Yes’ and ‘No’ Votes in our own makeshift Tally Room at the Aborginal Centre, 201 Beaufort Street , Perth.

An emotional and an historic night in Australia on 27 May 1967 as the result came in.  I was 10 years old and had stood with Dad outside North Perth Primary School polling place earlier that day handing out “Vote Yes for Aborigines” leaflets.

I remember beung startled later that night when Mum ❤️ and Dad ❤️ suddenly jumped up crying their eyes out and hugging each other Australia when the results finally came in to show Australia had Voted Yes in huge numbers (90%) right across the country in the biggest and most successful Referendum in Australia’s history - a record which still stands to this day.

 

14 October 2023

The question:

A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.

Do you approve this alteration?

[AustralianFan]

The late great Archie Roach

 

[Australian Kiwi]

47 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

27 May 1967

The Most Successful Referendum in Australia’s History

This photo is of my Dad on the left holding the phone getting yes and no vote numberd on Referendum night in 1967.

 

Is this your family or is this a cut and paste from another source? Not doubting, but its just a bit unclear and ambiguous.

[AustralianFan]

34 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Is this your family or is this a cut and paste from another source? Not doubting, but its just a bit unclear and ambiguous.

You’ve got to be kidding me.

Not doubting?  That’s obviously exactly what you are doing. Doubting.

It’s not unclear or ambiguous who my father is.  I already graciously posted this precious photo revealing that this  is my late father on the left in our family photo holding the phone in his hand.  Dad passed in 1984 in Perth.

And no, I am not about to reveal my own name nor my father’s name or anyone in my family.

Are you going to reveal your name?

I didn’t think so.

I choose for my identity to remain private, like everyone else here on Gamesbids.com.

[AustralianFan]

49 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Is this your family or is this a cut and paste from another source? Not doubting, but its just a bit unclear and ambiguous.

My Dad in the photo is my family obviously, but the only one who is.

To everyone in the community my Dad, the Elder, was known as and respectfully called “Uncle ……”

Uncle Jack in the centre is a famous Australian poet and playwright, but not related to me. To everyone in the community, he was known as Uncle Jack.

The same goes for Uncle Charlie, who I am also not related to.

That’s the way it is in Aboroginal culture in Australia today.

Male Elders are respectfully called “Uncle ….” by everyone.

Female Elders are respectfully called “Aunty ….” by everyone.

Here is some info on Uncle Jack:

 

 

[Scotguy II]

Just realised that this referendum is happening on the same day as the NZ general election and the end of the Ardernish Era

[Australian Kiwi]

7 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

You’ve got to be kidding me.

Not doubting?  That’s obviously exactly what you are doing. Doubting.

It’s not unclear or ambiguous who my father is.  I already graciously posted this precious photo revealing that this  is my late father on the left in our family photo holding the phone in his hand.  Dad passed in 1984 in Perth.

And no, I am not about to reveal my own name nor my father’s name or anyone in my family.

Are you going to reveal your name?

I didn’t think so.

I choose for my identity to remain private, like everyone else here on Gamesbids.com.

You are right, I was indirectly doubting you and that wasn't my place to do that. I apologise. 

[AustralianFan]

22 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

You are right, I was indirectly doubting you and that wasn't my place to do that. I apologise. 

Thankyou, apology accepted.

[AustralianFan]

Love this.

 

[Sir Rols]

Just been to do my bit - voted Yes early.

Cross fingers…

[Bear]

Good luck, Australia. I hope the outcome is a favorable one, especially for indigenous Australians. When can we expect to see the results?

[Sir Rols]

52 minutes ago, Bear said:

Good luck, Australia. I hope the outcome is a favorable one, especially for indigenous Australians. When can we expect to see the results?

Likely not take too long, just a simple count of numbers across states. My guess is Saturday night our time, lunchtime in Europe and late Friday/early Saturday in the US.

Polls show Yes gaining but No still in the lead. To pass it has to gain an overall majority and also a majority of states.

 

[Scotguy II]

The NZ media here are reporting that YES is leading, is that correct?

[Sir Rols]

17 minutes ago, Scotguy II said:

The NZ media here are reporting that YES is leading, is that correct?

Unfortunately, not that I've seen