Alpes Françaises 2030

[baron-pierreIV]

Well, with 2 new hockey rinks required. if they use only ONE set of plans, then there will be significant savings in design fees!!  

Edited December 3, 2023 by baron-pierreIV
x

[iceman530]

I know there is no real way to know, but are there any working assumptions why Lyon and maybe Marseille would have said no, and Nice said yes?  Lyon felt like it was never at any point interested, why would that be?  Would politics shut that one down?  Would Nice always be a preferred option if the choice is between it and Marseille?  Just trying to get an understanding of why Nice was the choice of city.  I think much of it is implied, but I am trying to understand at a deeper level too.

[baron-pierreIV]

38 minutes ago, iceman530 said:

I know there is no real way to know, but are there any working assumptions why Lyon and maybe Marseille would have said no, and Nice said yes?  Lyon felt like it was never at any point interested, why would that be?  Would politics shut that one down?  Would Nice always be a preferred option if the choice is between it and Marseille?  Just trying to get an understanding of why Nice was the choice of city.  I think much of it is implied, but I am trying to understand at a deeper level too.

Cruise ships can dock there and provide additional housing stock -- which you cannot do in Lyon?  And there's also Cannes and Monaco nearby for additional accommodations.  

[Sir Rols]

I’m sure there’s some technical/political reasons which the French here might be able to explain. But let’s face it - Nice is a far sexier anchor than the other too. I wouldn’t be half as warm for it if it was either of the others. I think Nice also gives it an excellent differentiation from Frances other winter hostings.

[FYI]

I'm not so sure about that. As been noted, but Nice is not a 'wintery' city, neither is Marseille for that matter. Grenoble seems to fit the bill much better in that sense. Very Innsbruck-picturesque & would've made good for nice "TV shots". But they weren't interested for whatever reason. Maybe the investment would've been too much them. Nice just seems more like a summer playground than anything having to do with wintery activity.  

[baron-pierreIV]

Another factor for Nice.  Looking at the French plan and its graphics, it seems Nice has lots of free land on which to build the additional venues needed including the ALL-IMPORTANT Village #1.  Per the plan, it seems that the 1,500 beds designated for the Nice OV1 will neatly fill Nice's housing needs post-Games for the city's growing lycee-age student population.  Perhaps Lyon and Marseilles do not have the free acreage with which to build the needed facilities and venues.  

[Sir Rols]

18 minutes ago, FYI said:

I'm not so sure about that. As been noted, but Nice is not a 'wintery' city, neither is Marseille for that matter. Grenoble seems to fit the bill much better in that sense. Very Innsbruck-picturesque & would've made good for nice "TV shots". But they weren't interested for whatever reason. Maybe the investment would've been too much them. Nice just seems more like a summer playground than anything having to do with wintery activity.  

It’s eye of the beholder of course. Neither really was Sochi, and Beijing city is hardly a winter wonderland. We’re past the times where we have many options off anchor cities that can provide the mountain postcard settings.

What, to me at least, Nice gives is the whole French Riviera glamour. It’s not winter associated, of course, but it’s a very different stamp than other French WOGs.

[yoshi]

I think Nice is seriously wealthy, surrounded by places that are even more seriously wealthy. I agree Lyon would make more sense as a city but it's in Auvergne & I assume PACA is putting up the money... plus who'd say no to spending a couple of winter months on the Riviera, a few minutes from Cannes and Monaco?

...We wouldn't, which is why our annual logo comp is there! (Partly). They'll need a logo eventually, so why not help them outdo Milan? It shouldn't be hard...

https://www.gamesbids.com/forums/topic/35604-17th-annual-gamesbids-olympic-logo-competition-logo-submissions

[Australian Kiwi]

Just think - if you live in Turin you might have three Winter Olympics within 250km radius of your home within 12 years (if Switzerland 2038 comes to fruition). 

 

[baron-pierreIV]

11 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

It’s eye of the beholder of course. Neither really was Sochi, and Beijing city is hardly a winter wonderland. We’re past the times where we have many options off anchor cities that can provide the mountain postcard settings.

What, to me at least, Nice gives is the whole French Riviera glamour. It’s not winter associated, of course, but it’s a very different stamp than other French WOGs.

Well, plus, of course, Nice's most prominent boulevard is Promenade des Anglais which, of course, would delight the world's Anglo-Saxon press more than anything else!  However, Nice Int'l -- unless plans are underway to extend the runways -- has some of the shortest runways for a modern 21st century airport that SHOULD handle A350s and 787 Dreamliners.  
 

Edited December 4, 2023 by baron-pierreIV

[FYI]

14 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

It’s eye of the beholder of course. Neither really was Sochi, and Beijing city is hardly a winter wonderland. We’re past the times where we have many options off anchor cities that can provide the mountain postcard settings.

What, to me at least, Nice gives is the whole French Riviera glamour. It’s not winter associated, of course, but it’s a very different stamp than other French WOGs.

Yeah, I get that. Vancouver also isn't necessarily a winter city, either. But how many here have given those cities strikes for not really being in the winter category, especially Beijing. And FWIW, at least Sochi was located in a wintery-sport nation. And it's what many here say that it would be nice for the Winter Olympics to return once again to those wintery outposts. 

Time-&-again that's been said, including ironically, recently with Switzerland (which other than Zurich & maybe Berne, doesn't have major cities to accommodate everything in one locale) & Sweden trying to vie for 2030. How many here revere Lillehammer 1994 as the best Winter Olympics ever & would like to see that again? But with the current trend of the Winter Olympics still growing, despite with of the so-called talk of sustainability & cost-effectiveness, then we'll never have another Lillehammer-type winter Games ever again.

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, FYI said:

But how many here have given those cities strikes for not really being in the winter category

And that’s a fair enough opinion to have. In a perfect world, most of us would probably be happy to see wintery, charming mountain town hosts. Hopefully, it can indeed happen now and then. But between the growth of the scale of games and the likely impact of global warming, that’s probably less and less likely as time goes on.

We all have our own personal checklists of preferences, and those preferences aren’t always consistent or logical - it could all boil down to whether we are a fan of the particular country or whether it rained that day or a waiter was rude to us when we visited there. To me, personally, if the French can tick of all their venue, technical and political constraints and still offer up what to me is a glamour anchor city in Nice (I’ve never been to Nice, so never had the pleasure of being snubbed by a waiter there), I’m on board with it.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Sir Rols

[StefanMUC]

5 hours ago, FYI said:

Yeah, I get that. Vancouver also isn't necessarily a winter city, either. But how many here have given those cities strikes for not really being in the winter category, especially Beijing. And FWIW, at least Sochi was located in a wintery-sport nation. And it's what many here say that it would be nice for the Winter Olympics to return once again to those wintery outposts. 

 

If you need a wintery outpost: Just saying we had the biggest snowfall since records started here on Saturday: 44 cm in one day. All public transport, train lines and airport completely stopped (and still not fully back). 
 

 

Extreme weather can also mean extreme snow, even in times of global warming.

[Quaker2001]

5 hours ago, FYI said:

Yeah, I get that. Vancouver also isn't necessarily a winter city, either. But how many here have given those cities strikes for not really being in the winter category, especially Beijing. And FWIW, at least Sochi was located in a wintery-sport nation. And it's what many here say that it would be nice for the Winter Olympics to return once again to those wintery outposts. 

Time-&-again that's been said, including ironically, recently with Switzerland (which other than Zurich & maybe Berne, doesn't have major cities to accommodate everything in one locale) & Sweden trying to vie for 2030. How many here revere Lillehammer 1994 as the best Winter Olympics ever & would like to see that again? But with the current trend of the Winter Olympics still growing, despite with of the so-called talk of sustainability & cost-effectiveness, then we'll never have another Lillehammer-type winter Games ever again.

The 1994 Games were somewhat destined to be the last of their kind.  Lillehammer had 61 medal events and 1,737 athletes.  The number of athletes for 1998 jumped by more than 25%, mostly due to adding curling and women's hockey.  In 2026, there will be 116 medal events, so it will have taken the Winter Olympics 30 years to nearly double in size.  The notion of a quaint mountain town being able to shoulder the load are gone forever.  It still boggles my mind sometimes to think that Lake Placid, a village of only 2,500 people, hosted the Winter Olympics in my lifetime.

It'll still be the French Alps, so the cameras will have plenty of scenics to shoot, even if the city component isn't as photogenic from a Winter standpoint as we want to imagine.  The goal, especially with a rushed bid effort like this, was to get the most capable host region for the games, not necessarily the one that most screams Winter.  As a couple of people noted, highlighting the French Riviera may have made this a more attractive deal for the IOC.  And like with Italy, we can probably be pretty sure that the venue plan that we have from last Wednesday probably won't look the same as what we get come 2030.

[neige]

The mayor of Nice has always been interrested by hosting the WOG.
Nice was a candidate for 2018 WOG. During the  preselection, Nice got 9 votes, Grenoble 10 votes and Annecy 23 votes.

Here an article about the PACA region project at the beginning of the year (2034 or 2038 at that time !)
https://sportetsociete.org/2023/01/14/jo-2034-2038-renaud-muselier-reitere-son-ambition-pour-les-alpes-du-sud/
It is explained that they will have to make a choice between Marseille and Nice.
The history of the 2018 candidacy is also recapped.
Some interresting comments in 2008 (google transaltion from this article):

In an interview for “Corse Matin” in September 2008, the three-time Olympic Champion of the 1968 Olympic Games notably explained: Annecy and Grenoble have enormous assets to showcase, but Nice has no less. On the contrary. Nice has its image of prestige and light. An exceptional site already equipped with all the major infrastructures in terms of transport, accommodation and know-how in terms of tourist reception. The Winter Olympics involve 3,500 athletes, 8,000 journalists and around a million and a half spectators: the Côte d’Azur knows how to manage that. And everyone is aware of it. But Nice has another card in its game. A secret card. That of surprise. The capital of the Côte d'Azur has a real high country, a very old Alpine tradition, real know-how in winter sports that goes back a long way. In Nice and on the Côte d’Azur, everyone knows it. Beyond that, maybe not. Hence certainly the totally ridiculous feeling that Nice's candidacy for these Winter Olympics is preposterous.

[baron-pierreIV]

How about Avignon and Arles?  Avignon has a great arts festival every summer and it's on the TGV line.  

[StefanMUC]

They’re even further away from the mountains and much smaller than Nice. So what about them? A Van Gogh inspired logo, or curling on the Pont d’Avignon with the stones not hitting the house falling into the Rhône?

[FYI]

6 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

And that’s a fair enough opinion to have. In a perfect world, most of us would probably be happy to see wintery, charming mountain town hosts. Hopefully, it can indeed happen now and then. But between the growth of the scale of games and the likely impact of global warming, that’s probably less and less likely as time goes on.

 

1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

The 1994 Games were somewhat destined to be the last of their kind.  Lillehammer had 61 medal events and 1,737 athletes.  The number of athletes for 1998 jumped by more than 25%, mostly due to adding curling and women's hockey.  In 2026, there will be 116 medal events, so it will have taken the Winter Olympics 30 years to nearly double in size.  The notion of a quaint mountain town being able to shoulder the load are gone forever.  It still boggles my mind sometimes to think that Lake Placid, a village of only 2,500 people, hosted the Winter Olympics in my lifetime.

Perhaps I'm not conveying this properly. Like anyone else around here that's been following these things for quite a while now, I know that a 21st Century Winter Olympics is now beyond the capacity by themselves of sleepy, winter villages like Lillehammer, Ostersund & Lake Placid. I only mentioned Lillehammer 1994 because many here revere it as the best Winter Olympics ever. It'd be nice to try & get that again as much as possible, something which I see would be harder to do with larger cities. Which for the winter Olympics, which are only the 1/3 of the size of the Summer Olympics, it would seem that large megalopolises aren't as necessary.

And as a matter of fact, Grenoble is actually a bit larger than Nice metro-wise, so it's not like Grenoble is some small, little town, either. Perhaps the timing is just off, not to mention the time constraint that 2030 was now under didn't help. That said though, don't take this that I'm downright disappointed with the selection of Nice, cause I'm not. Just saying that Grenoble in my view would've truly been more of a wintery setting, ala Innsbruck or Salzburg. I can say though, that Nice will still be a more exciting setting than Sochi or Beijing for a winter Games.

[FYI]

1 hour ago, neige said:

Nice was a candidate for 2018 WOG. During the  preselection, Nice got 9 votes, Grenoble 10 votes and Annecy 23 votes.

That's interesting. Cause the smallest winter candidate got the domestic nod there then.

3 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

If you need a wintery outpost: Just saying we had the biggest snowfall since records started here on Saturday: 44 cm in one day. All public transport, train lines and airport completely stopped (and still not fully back). 
 

 

Extreme weather can also mean extreme snow, even in times of global warming.

Just over 17 inches? Pfft, that's nothing. Try going to the Great Lakes region over the winter, where over three-feet of snowfall is not uncommon in some areas. Particularly around Buffalo, NY, which was literally paralyzed for a few days last Christmas after a massive snowstorm. And they're actually prepared for that sort of stuff, but that was just too much, even for them.

[Roger87]

Now going over the political aspect: Nice's mayor is Christian Estrosi and the president of the PACA region is Renaud Muselier. Both perhaps two of the main figures if the right lobby group of the current government coalition. 

And I was thinking it was Waiquiez's. Muselier seemed to have won the political battle against him another time

For Estrosi, this is part of his prior idea to rebuild Nice as a bigger and more cosmopolitan city. Some of the proposed projects were actually Estrosi's old ones but we're in stand by or halted. Now it looks he has free path to do this.span widget

[Quaker2001]

8 hours ago, FYI said:

Perhaps I'm not conveying this properly. Like anyone else around here that's been following these things for quite a while now, I know that a 21st Century Winter Olympics is now beyond the capacity by themselves of sleepy, winter villages like Lillehammer, Ostersund & Lake Placid. I only mentioned Lillehammer 1994 because many here revere it as the best Winter Olympics ever. It'd be nice to try & get that again as much as possible, something which I see would be harder to do with larger cities. Which for the winter Olympics, which are only the 1/3 of the size of the Summer Olympics, it would seem that large megalopolises aren't as necessary.

And as a matter of fact, Grenoble is actually a bit larger than Nice metro-wise, so it's not like Grenoble is some small, little town, either. Perhaps the timing is just off, not to mention the time constraint that 2030 was now under didn't help. That said though, don't take this that I'm downright disappointed with the selection of Nice, cause I'm not. Just saying that Grenoble in my view would've truly been more of a wintery setting, ala Innsbruck or Salzburg. I can say though, that Nice will still be a more exciting setting than Sochi or Beijing for a winter Games.

I wonder what would have been the result if this whole process have been planned and thought out rather than thrown together at the 11th hour with little regard to what makes the most sense.  Either way, there's definitely a vibe that France wanted to put forth a plan that combined the French Riviera with the French Alps and thought that would be most appealing to the IOC.  And apparently it was.

We now live in an era where a more regional bid (as opposed to a city-mountain pair) seems like it'll be the norm rather than an exception.  We'll see what Switzerland puts together in the coming years.

[neige]

20 hours ago, iceman530 said:

Lyon felt like it was never at any point interested, why would that be?  Would politics shut that one down?

The president of the AURA region initiated a project a few years ago but, as already said, the mayors of Lyon, Grenoble and Annecy all come from green parties. It seems that he didn't even try to talk to them (at least that's what the mayor of Grenoble said).
I could'nt find any comment about the bid from the mayor of Lyon. I interpret this silence as “I have much more important things to do”

Here a comment from the mayor of Annecy:
https://www.ledauphine.com/culture-loisirs/2023/12/01/jo-2030-ni-pour-ni-contre-le-groupe-politique-du-maire-d-annecy-sera-vigilant

"neither for nor against, the political group of the mayor of Annecy will be “vigilant”

Here a comment from the mayor of Grenoble:
https://www.ledauphine.com/jeux-olympiques/2023/11/30/jeux-olympiques-d-hiver-2030-dans-les-alpes-grenoble-n-a-toujours-pas-ete-consultee-eric-piolle-reagit-a-l-avancee-de-la-candidature-francaise
 

“Grenoble has still not been consulted”: Éric Piolle reacts to the progress of the French candidacy
“I said it, I am leaning towards a model of Winter Olympics which would take place in 6 to 8 locations, to stop building, artificializing, making cold beds and infrastructures which are of no use. In this context, the French Alps have their place. But there is also the question of consultation with citizens…”

[iceman530]

1 hour ago, neige said:

The president of the AURA region initiated a project a few years ago but, as already said, the mayors of Lyon, Grenoble and Annecy all come from green parties. It seems that he didn't even try to talk to them (at least that's what the mayor of Grenoble said).
I could'nt find any comment about the bid from the mayor of Lyon. I interpret this silence as “I have much more important things to do”

Here a comment from the mayor of Annecy:
https://www.ledauphine.com/culture-loisirs/2023/12/01/jo-2030-ni-pour-ni-contre-le-groupe-politique-du-maire-d-annecy-sera-vigilant

"neither for nor against, the political group of the mayor of Annecy will be “vigilant”

Here a comment from the mayor of Grenoble:
https://www.ledauphine.com/jeux-olympiques/2023/11/30/jeux-olympiques-d-hiver-2030-dans-les-alpes-grenoble-n-a-toujours-pas-ete-consultee-eric-piolle-reagit-a-l-avancee-de-la-candidature-francaise
 

“Grenoble has still not been consulted”: Éric Piolle reacts to the progress of the French candidacy
“I said it, I am leaning towards a model of Winter Olympics which would take place in 6 to 8 locations, to stop building, artificializing, making cold beds and infrastructures which are of no use. In this context, the French Alps have their place. But there is also the question of consultation with citizens…”

Interesting.  With the recent success of Nice OSC, would any of the infrastructure being built here go to facilitation of expanding that stadium? or possibly a new one?

[neige]

29 minutes ago, iceman530 said:

Interesting.  With the recent success of Nice OSC, would any of the infrastructure being built here go to facilitation of expanding that stadium? or possibly a new one?

Do you mean the Nice Football Club (OGC Nice)?
The answer is no... They have a quite recent 35000 seats stadium (2013).
And for the WOG the need is to build to ice rinks. I can't see how it could be used for Football.
By the way, nobody knows what they can do with them!
Here what it is written in feasibility assessment file:

[neige]

Here is the average attendance of the hockey team: