Stockholm/Åre 2030

[AustralianFan]

50 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

As Bear said, they’re just hitching a ride rather tha initiating anything. Anyway, don’t see why Norway would ever be interested in snubbing their own new-ish Lillehammer run  in favour of Latvia. Poland would make more sense, but I guess they’re more preoccupied with what’s happening in their neighbour Ukraine. And besides, neither of them have made any public indications of even considering a bid anyway.

Also, I don’t see why Latvia would get any naming rights IF (the huge if) Sweden 2030 went ahead. It’s nothing different from their role in the 2026 Stockholm-Åre bid. Just a very junior partner of convenience. What next? Paris-Tahiti 2024? LA-Oklahoma City 2028?

Depends in how many events that Latvia end up getting as they have expressly said this time around they would like to host more events using some of their indoor ice arenas, eg short-track speed skating, some ice hockey preliminaries.

 

 

[AustralianFan]

9 minutes ago, FYI said:

This still fails to acknowledge that an Australian regional bid was mainly "allowed" because of powerful influential & very pushy tactics by a certain (bias) IOC VP, that rushed through the anointment of the 2032 host in middle of a raging global pandemic (all the while, the 2030 host has yet to be determined, & may not even be determined for at least another year).

Absolute nonsense.

You seem to have somehow forgotten that Regional and International bids are now allowed in this New Norm era.

That’s why they call it the “New Norm”.

The 2026 Milano Cortina Winter Olympics preceding these 2030 are spread right across the Northern Italy regions.  Likely the most spread out Regional Winter Games in living memory.

 

 

[AustralianFan]

13 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Depends in how many events that Latvia end up getting as they have expressly said this time around they would like to host more events using some of their indoor ice arenas, eg short-track speed skating, some ice hockey preliminaries.

Baltic News:

“This time, the Latvian side wants to go a step further. Sweden is considering candidacy for the 2030 Winter Olympics, while Latvia wants a bigger share of the pie this time than in the previous run.”

“Theoretically, all competitions in rink sports would take place in Sigulda, but unofficially it is said that Latvia would like to host at least part of the hockey tournament, curling and also short track.”

 

Credit: Latvia and Sweden are discussing the possibility of jointly hosting the 2030 Winter Olympic Games - Baltic Times

[AustralianFan]

1 minute ago, AustralianFan said:

Baltic News:

“This time, the Latvian side wants to go a step further. Sweden is considering candidacy for the 2030 Winter Olympics, while Latvia wants a bigger share of the pie this time than in the previous run.”

“Theoretically, all competitions in rink sports would take place in Sigulda, but unofficially it is said that Latvia would like to host at least part of the hockey tournament, curling and also short track.”

 

Credit: Latvia and Sweden are discussing the possibility of jointly hosting the 2030 Winter Olympic Games - Baltic Times

By “rink sports” the media report above is actually referring to Sliding Events”.

[Sir Rols]

8 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Depends in how many events that Latvia end up getting as they have expressly said this time around they would like to host more events using some of their indoor ice arenas, eg short-track speed skating, some ice hockey preliminaries.

 

 

They’ve basically said “Sigulda’s waiting for you if you need it, and, by the way, we can also offer up a few indoor venues if you want them”. There’s absolutely no obligation, or need, on the part of Sweden to indulge them. Even if they did throw a few prelims their way, it’d still fall far short of a co-hosting “naming rights” role.  

[yoshi]

I still don't see why they haven't thought of Gothenburg, using Lillehammer's track - it's a different city, avoiding the often viscerally anti-Olympic Stockholm, second cities tend to be crying out for international attention, and it'd have the sliding a lot closer than Latvia. Is Gothenburg's connection with Are much worse than Stockholm's?

[FYI]

21 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Absolute nonsense.

You seem to have somehow forgotten that Regional and International bids are now allowed in this New Norm era.

That’s why they call it the “New Norm”.

The 2026 Milano Cortina Winter Olympics preceding these 2030 are spread right across the Northern Italy regions.  Likely the most spread out Regional Winter Games in living memory.

And there's the rub, for WINTER Olympic bids, the plans lately have to been so spread-out more, because basically, you need two anchors now for the ice & snow events, since no city-center alone can accommodate for all the winter disciplines. For the Summer Games, bigger cities can handle most of the events on their own. And last I checked, 2032 is a SUMMER Olympics, in case you've somehow "forgotten" that.

Just because the new-norm now "allows" for certain things to be more flexible, doesn't mean the IOC won't exercise their best interest on a case-by-case basis (like they've always done). That hasn't changed. What's "absolute nonsense" (which is always your overused petty insult line when you don't like differing opinions on these boards), is that you continue to drink the "new norm" kool-aid. But even that is not set in stone, since the IOC can change on a dime whenever they feel like it, as long as it suits them, & damn the "new norm" if they feel in the end that it's no longer of any use to them.

[stryker]

22 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

They’ve basically said “Sigulda’s waiting for you if you need it, and, by the way, we can also offer up a few indoor venues if you want them”. There’s absolutely no obligation, or need, on the part of Sweden to indulge them. Even if they did throw a few prelims their way, it’d still fall far short of a co-hosting “naming rights” role.  

This. I cannot see Stockholm giving some premier ice events just because Latvia has a few suitable ice arenas. Logistically the IIHF would protest over flying teams back and forth to Riga for ice hockey prelims for example. Remember the uproar over basketball and handball matches in Lille and that's only a train ride away. Now if Stockholm did fold it would raise an interesting perspective if Latvia suddenly decided to carry on with all the indoor ice events. The question then becomes whose a willing partner. I think for long term survival of the WOGs there has to be a willingness to consider host cities that can host say all of the ice events (London, Amsterdam, Helsinki) who could then partner with someone else.for the sliding and ski events. Perhaps only shooting some events akin to hosting requirements of a world championships could get the likes of Norway and Germany back in the fold. Then again, that proposed tri-national bid a month or so ago fizzed as fast as it was announced.

 

14 minutes ago, yoshi said:

I still don't see why they haven't thought of Gothenburg, using Lillehammer's track - it's a different city, avoiding the often viscerally anti-Olympic Stockholm, second cities tend to be crying out for international attention, and it'd have the sliding a lot closer than Latvia. Is Gothenburg's connection with Are much worse than Stockholm's?

Gothenburg would have far more spending required on indoor arenas.

[Sir Rols]

10 minutes ago, yoshi said:

I still don't see why they haven't thought of Gothenburg, using Lillehammer's track - it's a different city, avoiding the often viscerally anti-Olympic Stockholm, second cities tend to be crying out for international attention, and it'd have the sliding a lot closer than Latvia. Is Gothenburg's connection with Are much worse than Stockholm's?

I assume most of the more recent and more bid-ready plans are Stockholm-centric. Remember, time is of the essence here, so I’d guess re-planning around Göteborg would be like unnecessarily going back t the drawing board, before you even start to consider whether it’s as facility-ready as Stockholm. 

As to Lillehammer’s track - I’m not convinced it’s even much closer or accessible transport-wise as Sigulda. Also considering the Swedish-Norwegian rivalry/antipathy, both may well be not interested in working with each other. Also, I personally think Sigulda is better partnering PR move by Sweden. 

[AustralianFan]

14 minutes ago, FYI said:

And there's the rub, for WINTER Olympic bids, the plans lately have to been so spread-out more, because basically, you need two anchors now for the ice & snow events, since no city-center alone can accommodate for all the winter disciplines. For the Summer Games, bigger cities can handle most of the events on their own. And last I checked, 2032 is a SUMMER Olympics, in case you've somehow "forgotten" that.

 

There is no “Rub”.    What does that even mean? Seriously.

I’m clearly talking to a New Normer denier here who ‘s stuck in the past.

The New Norm host selection process applies to both the Winter and Summer Games.

Did you not know this?   
 

Milano Cortina 2026 - Spread Out Regional Winter Games

Brisbane 2032 - Spread Out Regional Summer Games

Winter Games 2030 - this thread is about an emerging Spread Out Games in Sweden and Latvia that also crosses International borders

 

 

[AustralianFan]

41 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

They’ve basically said “Sigulda’s waiting for you if you need it, and, by the way, we can also offer up a few indoor venues if you want them”. There’s absolutely no obligation, or need, on the part of Sweden to indulge them. Even if they did throw a few prelims their way, it’d still fall far short of a co-hosting “naming rights” role.  

And what exactly is the threshold for “co-host naming rights” ?

I think three events would do it,  sliding, ice hockey prelims and short track speed skating.

This is not the 2026 bid recycled again.  Clearly, the Latvian Olympic Committee would like to host more than just sliding events.

If they end up scoring three events,  some ice hockey prelims, short track speed skating with all the sliding events, my money is I reckon they’ve also cracked the co-host naming rights threshold.

 

[Sir Rols]

1 minute ago, AustralianFan said:

I think three events would do it,  sliding, ice hockey prelims and short track speed skating.

Apart from sliding, there is no need or obligation to even consider the other two. Even good reasons not to.

3 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

This is not the 2026 bid recycled again.  Clearly, the Latvian Olympic Committee would like to host more than just sliding events.

They can like as much as they want. But they’re not driving any possible bid. They’re just opportunistically trying to ride on the coat-tails of a possible bid by a former partner. 

6 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

my money is I reckon they’ve also cracked the co-host naming rights threshold.

And I reckon that’s just getting over-excited by the prospect of an unlikely hypothetical, which itself is riding on whether an even more unlikely hypothetical even happens.

[AustralianFan]

13 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Apart from sliding, there is no need or obligation to even consider the other two. Even good reasons not to.

They can like as much as they want. But they’re not driving any possible bid. They’re just opportunistically trying to ride on the coat-tails of a possible bid by a former partner. 

And I reckon that’s just getting over-excited by the prospect of an unlikely hypothetical, which itself is riding on whether an even more unlikely hypothetical even happens.

We’ll see what comes of these discussions that the Sweden and Latvian National Olympic Committees are having right now. 

Also happening right now is the Feasibility Assessment by the Swedish Olympic Committee which is due to be presented to it’s general assembly this April.

Presumably the Feasibility Assessment will include the feasibility of Latvia’s stated preferences to host more events and include what venues , athletes village and transport options that those additional sports would entail on the Latvian side of the Sea.

Will be an interesting report indeed.  Although I don’t know if they will release that report to the public (?)

The public support and government support questions then would need to be achieved/overcome if agreement is reached between Sweden and Latvia on who hosts what and when. 

[Sir Rols]

Exactly - a whole host of hurdles, imponderables and hypotheticals before anybody can even consider who gets their name on the logo.

As I’ve said before, this would be my last fondest Olympic dream come true - far, far more so than Brisboring. It’s also be far the most likely winter games I’d ever attend. I can’t help but be a little excited and engaged myself. But I’ve been burnt too many times by past disappointments, and am too acquainted with the Swedish public and political establishment’s suspicions of all things IOC (much less their general activist sympathies) to want to allow myself to invest too much emotion in it.

I’ll be overjoyed if it happens, but prepared for it to fizzle before it even gets off the ground. And even if it did,  can’t see how Latvia could expect to be anything more than an opportunistic hanger-on of convenience.

[AustralianFan]

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Also, I don’t see why Latvia would get any naming rights IF (the huge if) Sweden 2030 went ahead. It’s nothing different from their role in the 2026 Stockholm-Åre bid. 

It’s actually very different from the 2026 bid should Latvia secure agreement to host additional events.

For example:

• bobsleigh
• skeleton
• luge
• ice hockey prelims
• short track speed skating

If they get all of above, then London to a brick on that we will see a new co-hosting name emerge for such a 2030 bid, so we’ll have to see how all this pans out.

28 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Apart from sliding, there is no need or obligation to even consider the other two.

That’s what these current discussions they are having are all about between Sweden and Latvia.  We wait and see what comes out of those discussions,  maybe nothing, maybe some compromise and increased events sharing. 

[AustralianFan]

2 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Exactly - a whole host of hurdles, imponderables and hypotheticals before anybody can even consider who gets their name on the logo.

As I’ve said before, this would be my last fondest Olympic dream come true - far, far more so than Brisboring. It’s also be far the most likely winter games I’d ever attend. I can’t help but be a little excited and engaged myself. But I’ve been burnt too many times by past disappointments, and am too acquainted with the Swedish public and political establishment’s suspicions of all things IOC (much less their general activist sympathies) to want to allow myself to invest too much emotion in it.

I’ll be overjoyed if it happens, but prepared for it to fizzle before it even gets off the ground. And even if it did,  can’t see how Latvia could expect to be anything more than an opportunistic hanger-on of convenience.

I hope both parties can pull this off for you personally and for the region.  I would go to my first Winter Games if this happens, all the way from Melbourne.

[Sir Rols]

12 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

It’s actually very different from the 2026 bid should Latvia secure agreement to host additional events.

For example:

• bobsleigh
• skeleton
• luge
• ice hockey prelims
• short track speed skating

 

Sliding is likely, but that’s not even certain - the SOK has said nothing of their plans in that regard. The rest are no more than your over-enthusiastic musings based on the fact the Latvians floated the offer. It’s all nothing but your personal dream-bid at the moment. 

[Nacre]

On 3/23/2023 at 5:41 PM, Bear said:

oh i just realized this was the stockholm are 2030 thread

The point is that if the IOC is going to allow regional bids again (Lillehammer was also basically a regional games) then ANY host should be able to use lots of venues and infrastructure outside of that host. And that includes Sweden. Or Denmark. Or Morocco, for that matter.

Edited March 25 by Nacre

[Faster]

I mean Latvia hosting some hockey wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Would mean one less venue need in Stockholm. 

[FYI]

3 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

There is no “Rub”.    What does that even mean? Seriously.

I’m clearly talking to a New Normer denier here who ‘s stuck in the past.

The New Norm host selection process applies to both the Winter and Summer Games.

Did you not know this?   
 

Milano Cortina 2026 - Spread Out Regional Winter Games

Brisbane 2032 - Spread Out Regional Summer Games

Winter Games 2030 - this thread is about an emerging Spread Out Games in Sweden and Latvia that also crosses International borders

It means; & that's the problem, difficulty or contradiction. It's a Shakespeare phrase. But maybe it falls somewhere along with "like it or lump it", whatever the heck that's suppose to mean, too.  

In this case, it's that summer & winter Games are technically different & require a different set of circumstances & to operate efficiently, regardless if the 'new norm' process "applies" to both of them. That's merely a technical term rather than something that's set in stone or some secret Olympic formula (like you seem to enjoy to imply all the time). There's still different rules, regulations & requirements for each of them. The only thing that the 'new norm' really offers, is that it makes the IOC much more flexible these days to do whatever they want, when they want. Period.

So Milan-Cortina 2026 & Brisbane 2032 are not great examples to simply intertwine together just because you can, since before Brisbane, there really weren't any previous Summer Games that were as spread-out. So it's only one convenient example out of many.

[FYI]

1 hour ago, Nacre said:

The point is that if the IOC is going to allow regional bids again (Lillehammer was also basically a regional games) then ANY host should be able to use lots of venues and infrastructure outside of that host. And that includes Sweden. Or Denmark. Or Morocco, for that matter.

This still neglects the elephant in the room. The IOC "allows" only what they want to allow. Brisbane didn't really have such an advantage due to it's regional concept. It had much more to do with the desires of a certain VP member, & what they wanted to accomplish rather than the IOC saying; "oh yeah, let's try these regional concepts & see where that takes us".

Plus, Lillehammer was a Winter Games, which you yourself have agreed in the past, requires more far-flung locales due to the unique topography required for many winter Games disciplines, which large anchor cities (with the large indoor arenas for the ice events) cannot provide.

[FYI]

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

As I’ve said before, this would be my last fondest Olympic dream come true - far, far more so than **Brisboring**. 

 

[FYI]

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

As I’ve said before, this would be my last fondest Olympic dream come true - far, far more so than **Brisboring**.

[Bear]

1 hour ago, Nacre said:

The point is that if the IOC is going to allow regional bids again (Lillehammer was also basically a regional games) then ANY host should be able to use lots of venues and infrastructure outside of that host. And that includes Sweden. Or Denmark. Or Morocco, for that matter.

i dont think anyone disagrees with this statement here

[AustralianFan]

38 minutes ago, FYI said:

 

So Milan-Cortina 2026 & Brisbane 2032 are not great examples to simply intertwine together just because you can, since before Brisbane, there really weren't any previous Summer Games that were as spread-out. So it's only one convenient example out of many.

What part of Regional do you not understand?

2026 is a Regional Winter Games

2032 is a Regional Summer Games

2030 - this thread is about a Regional bid that also crosses international borders as did their 2026 bid.

New Norm allows more flexibility in many ways, including spread out regional and international bids, including co-hosting across borders.