cfm Jeremie Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 22 minutes ago, AustralianFan said: IOC FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS RIO 2016: $1.5 billion USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: olympics.com PYEONGCHANG 2018: $887 million USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: olympics.com TOKYO 2020: $1.8 billion USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: olympics.com BEJING 2022: $880 million USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: olympics.com PARIS 2024 $1.2 billion USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: Paris2024.org LOS ANGELES 2028 $1.3 billion USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: wikipedia.org BRISBANE 2032 $1.2 billion USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: Value Proposition So basically your initial numbers were wrong. (BTW, I have provided my sources, Host City Contract available on Olympics.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 37 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said: Just in general. (I guess I am just secretly hoping that things will go smoothly in finding an alternate 2030 host (to SLC)--and Sweden seems worthy enough as a legit WOG host as any.) I apologize if I have given the impression that I’m an insider. I’m not privy to the internal discussions in SOK even if one member of the executive was my best friend once upon a time. However, we drifted apart when I changed schools at the age of 13. The same applies to the political sphere. I left active politics many years ago and have no connections with those deciding today. On the other hand I live in Sweden and have kept observing politics. I’m well aware that I live in a bubble, as we all do. However, that bubble is at least part of Swedish general opinion. I also have the advantage of understanding Swedish and other relevant languages (such as Norwegian and Latvian) and can follow mainstream media. I don’t follow what’s happening on social media in general. As to reliability we have to distinguish between when I relate and when I speculate. I believe that reliability is significantly better than 1%, or even 25%, when I relate what’s communicated in Swedish media and what those around me think. Reliability when I speculate is another matter. Also, my comments are influenced by the extremely low opinion I have of SOK’s competence and ethics. However, I have to admit that what there is in the pre-study now is better than the 2026 bid, not that that is exactly a high bar to pass. I say this even as I have discovered a 50-100 MUSD item that is “left between chairs” or rather assumed will be paid by a municipality with 60 000 inhabitants that have no use for it after the games. Yes, I believe that Sweden is worthy to host the games. I’m less sure that Sweden is willing to do it. Close as I am I tend to focus on the significant barriers. Barriers that can not all be removed just by throwing money at them. And yes, it’s quite possible that I’m wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 (edited) Sigh, no need to apologize for anything. I was sure you knew what you were/are talking about. But I guess like many here who have the OGs' best interests at heart and that we wish to see the Games produce the best results for humanity and our planet, I, speaking for myself, was getting discouraged by your--albeit honest and factual--assessment of the less than enthusiastic buzz happening in Sweden. Thanks for all your candor and sharing your bkgd whose bonafides, as an insider, I never doubted. Indeed, putting together a sound, purposeful and responsible OG plan is, as technologically advanced as our generation has become, even more complex than before. So many parties to answer to and satisfy. Edited June 19 by baron-pierreIV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 4 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said: Sigh, no need to apologize for anything. I was sure you knew what you were/are talking about. But I guess like many here who have the OGs' best interests at heart and that we wish to see the Games produce the best results for humanity and our planet, I, speaking for myself, was getting discouraged by your--albeit honest and factual--assessment of the less than enthusiastic buzz happening in Sweden. Thanks for all your candor and sharing your bkgd whose bonafides, as an insider, I never doubted. Indeed, putting together a sound, purposeful and responsible OG plan is, as technologically advanced as our generation has become, even more complex than before. So many parties to answer to and satisfy. You caught me at a bad time and I didn't realize the spirit in which your original comment was written. I regret that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 4 hours ago, cfm Jeremie said: So basically your initial numbers were wrong. (BTW, I have provided my sources, Host City Contract available on Olympics.com) My guess is that the initials numbers they posted were in Australian dollars (since their "revised" version now says in USD, but where in Milan now in that new assessment). Which, when posting on an international forum such as this one, the best thing to initially do when speaking about monetary figures, is to post them in either USD or in Euro's (like many do, such as the IOC in this case), hence, then there'd be less confusion around. 4 hours ago, Sigh said: On the other hand I live in Sweden and have kept observing politics. I’m well aware that I live in a bubble, as we all do. However, that bubble is at least part of Swedish general opinion. I also have the advantage of understanding Swedish and other relevant languages (such as Norwegian and Latvian) and can follow mainstream media. I don’t follow what’s happening on social media in general. Bubble or not, this is why an "on the ground" POV is really appreciated around here, at least by me, anyway. Because it cuts right through the other lofty posts/generalizations that are offered by others who are not on the ground, & therefore are privy to even less than a native of that respective (Olympic bidding) country. 4 hours ago, Sigh said: Also, my comments are influenced by the extremely low opinion I have of SOK’s competence and ethics. Which then, by extension, that kind of attitude goes directly to the IOC, where many people in general have a low opinion of their competence & ethics. And therefore, which is basically why they find themselves in the mess that they're in now, in so desperately trying to find an alternative for a 2030 host, at this point, that's not SLC. 4 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said: But I guess like many here who have the OGs' best interests at heart and that we wish to see the Games produce the best results for humanity and our planet, I, speaking for myself, was getting discouraged by your--albeit honest and factual--assessment of the less than enthusiastic buzz happening in Sweden. Thanks for all your candor and sharing your bkgd whose bonafides, as an insider, I never doubted. But how many times before have we on GB's in the past appreciated a native of any respective Olympic bidding to gives us their input (especially if it's a country with a totally different culture & language)? Discouraging as it may be at times (& for some who probably don't want to hear it at all, because they just want that "hero bid"), I for one do appreciate their candor & sharing of background knowledge, to at the very least put all the other lofty headlines on their toes when it comes time to get to the real nitty-gritty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 I think one thing that is being missed is the 'unprecedented' nature of what the SOK, the federations and the IOC are doing here. I do not mean to be smug, but I predicted this. Just am a bit surprised it is Sweden and not Austria. Sweden was willing to host the 2026 games under less favourable conditions. There surely is at least similar political support now as then. And in much more favourable conditions. I am not sure any potential bidder has had the power Stockholm and those sitting in the SOK have in dictating terms of the hosting arrangements. If the Norwegians do get on board and are offered 2 to 3 venues. This could be one of the more cost-certain Games ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 21 minutes ago, Faster said: I think one thing that is being missed is the 'unprecedented' nature of what the SOK, the federations and the IOC are doing here. I do not mean to be smug, but I predicted this. Just am a bit surprised it is Sweden and not Austria. Sweden was willing to host the 2026 games under less favourable conditions. There surely is at least similar political support now as then. And in much more favourable conditions. I am not sure any potential bidder has had the power Stockholm and those sitting in the SOK have in dictating terms of the hosting arrangements. If the Norwegians do get on board and are offered 2 to 3 venues. This could be one of the more cost-certain Games ever. Here's the wet blanket again! On the positive side the conditions vis-à-vis IOC are definitely more favorable. When it comes to political support, unfortunately not. Which says quite a lot since the national government security guarantee came very late and Stockholm refused to sign the agreement last time. SOK had tiny Åre to do it instead. So strictly speaking the 2026 bid wasn't Stockholm 2026 but Åre 2026. Social Democrats are generally considered to be more favorable to WOGs than the centre right. Last time Social Democrats were in power nationally and centre-right locally. Now it's the reverse so it's not possible to by-pass the centre-right this time. Add to that some extra complications with Greens, Left and nationalist populists who are all against WOGs. Even the Social Democrats in Stockholm are not prepared to shoulder the entire guarantee and demand that the tightfisted national government should take all or at least a major part of the risk. In 2018/9 the economy was going strong. In 2018/9 there were no strong feelings about Russian participations in OGs. This may surprise many but it's something that is a very strong emotional issue in Sweden. The biggest chocolate maker in Sweden, and one of the absolutely strongest brands overall, is going down the drain at present. Not because they are doing business with Russia themselves but because the multinational that owns them still have production in Russia. So the question is whether the positive can outweigh the negative. I sure wish that the SOK was less supine towards the IOC. Ironically that would benefit the IOC as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustralianFan Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 14 hours ago, cfm Jeremie said: There is absolutely no way a Winter Games OCOG is getting nearly as much as a Summer Games OCOG: they don't have the same commercial values nor do they cost the same amount to organise. Actual numbers, based on HCC : Milano-Cortina 2026: 200 Millions as share of the TOP Programme, 452 Millions related to broadcast revenues which brings the contribution to 752 Million USD (though it is possible that the share of the TOP Programme can increase depending on evolution of the TOP programme for the 2026-2028 quad). On top of that the IOC is valuing the services provided by OBS at 190 Millions and the transfer of knowledge services at 83 millions (so at max 1.025 billions, keeping in mind that the OCOG "only" gets USD 752 Million, I have no idea where the 1.6 billion figure is coming from but it is at best 600 millions off track. Brisbane 2032: 437 Millions as share of the TOP programme (again, could be increased depending on TOP programmes success for the upcoming quads), 898 Millions related to broadcast revenues which brings the contribution to USD 1.335 Billion. On top of that the IOC is valuing the services provided by OBS at 430 millions and the transfer of knowledge services at USD 125 millions. So again 1.89 billion (no idea where 2.5 is coming from) @cfm Jeremie You wondered about the source for the $2.5 billion IOC contribution to Brisbane 2032 came from ? ie $2.5 AUD = $1.7 billion USD (apologies for not doing AUD to USD conversion, my bad) The Source for the $2.5 billion AUD / $1.7 billion USD is the Australian Olympic Committee website: Olympics.com.au That figure is still there on the website today. Screenshot below: ****************************************** MILANO CORTINA 2026 $652 million USD = IOC contribution SOURCE: The Sports Examiner From the Host City contract you have extrapolated $753 million USD IOC contribution. Absolutely yes, this is more realistic than the $1.6 billion I initially googled. SWEDEN 2030 Games So for a Sweden 2030 Games, should it win, a realistic ballpark IOC contribution figure would be in the vicinity of say, $800 million USD ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 I do not think you are being a wet blanket, I think you are being a picture-perfect Swede. I really do want to believe this works. Obviously the idea of getting another one of the core European countries over the finish line for the 2030 Games to go along with Italy in 2026 would be beneficial. Italy hosting even Torino-level games, followed by typical Swedish hospitality and hosting efficiency and 2034 SLC would go along way in rebuilding the version of the games so by 2038 you could see Austria/Poland/Norway/Germany willingly host without Johan Eliasch, Tron Espeli and Luc Tardif going to a potential host and begging for them to jump in. Sweden within the last 10 years has hosted almost every major winter world championship. The venues and the know-how are there. Getting the Games on favourable terms should be enough for the post-political center of Swedish governance to get behind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 25 minutes ago, AustralianFan said: SWEDEN 2030 Games So for a Sweden 2030 Games, should it win, a realistic ballpark IOC contribution figure would be in the vicinity of say, $800 million USD ? To bring some good news: SOK expects just over 10 billion SEK which would translate into around 900 MUSD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 I would've thought that if the IOC pays Sweden the equivalent of the entire security budget at least, that'd be very useful, and set a good precedent. That's a large cost that a) sets apart the Olympics (which aren't all that popular) from ordinary championships (which are) & b) has no legacy, so can't even be called an investment. What kind of figure would we be talking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustralianFan Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 5 hours ago, Sigh said: To bring some good news: SOK expects just over 10 billion SEK which would translate into around 900 USD I too join with others here in respecting your honest opinions and considered insight @Sigh. You’ve brought us together which is quite remarkable, regardless of how Sweden 2030 goes moving forward. You should be a leader, are a leader. Thankyou. Your timely good news news about SOK receiving about a $900 million USD contribution from the IOC is welcome, should it end up as 2030 Host in 12 months time at the Paris 2024 Session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 On kind of an unrelated note, but more than likely indirectly related, how will what was going on at the Paris 2024 Olympic headquaters this morning (not to mention the ongoing Tokyo 2020ne scandal) effect the overall impression of the 2030 Olympic bid proposal among Swedish politicians, & Swedes in general, that are not the SOK. I'm sure it's something that the IOC is throwing up their arms over this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Couldn’t happen at a worse time for the IOC. Has baron already shouted LOCK HIM UP at Tony E? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 4 hours ago, FYI said: On kind of an unrelated note, but more than likely indirectly related, how will what was going on at the Paris 2024 Olympic headquaters this morning (not to mention the ongoing Tokyo 2020ne scandal) effect the overall impression of the 2030 Olympic bid proposal among Swedish politicians, & Swedes in general, that are not the SOK. I'm sure it's something that the IOC is throwing up their arms over this afternoon. Tokyo: None to minimal since there is no coverage of it. Paris: Too early to say. One problem with OGs is that there is a lot of money in motion within an environment with hard dead-lines and where money is regarded as secondary to producing a great show. Add to that that the organisers will just walk away anyway after the games. No wonder that control may be weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 You can't accuse the IOC of pandering to Swedish public opinion. Former (?) Russian army officer Jelena Isinbajeva (Swedish translitteration) to retain her place in the IOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted June 30 Report Share Posted June 30 According to Swedish Television there is "strong" support for Stockholm 2030 among politicians. I.e. while no party has expressed any explicit support no party is categorically against WOGs in Sweden 2030. ALL of them now take a wait and see atittude. At present they wait for a more than a budget sketch to be presented. Probably end October or early November. That is after the Mumbai meeting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustralianFan Posted July 1 Report Share Posted July 1 18 hours ago, Sigh said: According to Swedish Television there is "strong" support for Stockholm 2030 among politicians. I.e. while no party has expressed any explicit support no party is categorically against WOGs in Sweden 2030. ALL of them now take a wait and see atittude. At present they wait for a more than a budget sketch to be presented. Probably end October or early November. That is after the Mumbai meeting. If government support is harnessed by Oct/Nov, it would fit into a February elevation of Stockholm 2030 to Targeted Dialogue and a Host Election in July 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustralianFan Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 IT’S ON!!! GOVERNMENT SUPPORT LOOKS GOOD FOR STOCKHOLM 2030 @Sigh as you said: 30 June 2023: “The Swedish Government looks prepared to back another attempt to win the hosting rights for the Winter Olympics and Paralympics.” “Tomas Johansson, senior advisor to Sweden’s Ministry of Health and Social Affairs, said the Government was "positive" over efforts from sporting bodies to assess the possibility of bringing the Games to the country.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 Tryina really get me to believe here huh Sweden....... Sweden 2030, SLC 2034, Sapporo 2038 would be absolutely lovely. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorchbearerSydney Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 Sweden 2030, SLC 2034, Sapporo 2038 would be absolutely lovely. Indeed...would be a great result for the IOC and the Olympics... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 That would save the Winter Olympics, no doubt, although I'll still only believe in a Stockholm games once it's signed and sealed. Never mind a double award, the IOC should be out there making whatever bribes/deals are necessary to get those three locked in - if that means there's no winter bid process until 2035, so be it, the world economy will obviously be different, maybe better, who knows, & those cities might well inspire others to bid. Climate change will obviously be a bigger problem then though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, yoshi said: That would save the Winter Olympics, no doubt, although I'll still only believe in a Stockholm games once it's signed and sealed. Exactly, while the gov’t was ‘positive’ over efforts from sporting bodies to “asses the possibility” for a Winter Olympics in Sweden in 2030, it’s still premature to say that gov’t support “looks good” for the project. There’s still the next phase of the feasibility study to actually produce the budget, which was also what that survey analyzed when talking about Swedish support, if it’s done in a “sustainable, democratic & cost-effective manner”. Plus, will the City of Stockholm actually sign on the dotted line this time (since hence, that was the main problem the last time, that they weren’t willing to). It’s always good to “hope”, but it’s also prudent to be realistic & pragmatic, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, yoshi said: That would save the Winter Olympics, no doubt, although I'll still only believe in a Stockholm games once it's signed and sealed. Never mind a double award, the IOC should be out there making whatever bribes/deals are necessary to get those three locked in - if that means there's no winter bid process until 2035, so be it, the world economy will obviously be different, maybe better, who knows, & those cities might well inspire others to bid. Climate change will obviously be a bigger problem then though. Sure will, and unless I miss my guess, Sapporo was actually one of the few strong "winter" destinations that would still have a strong winter by then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigh Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 I wouldn't expect to hear anything of substance before November now. Government representatives might come with some positive sounding but non-commital statements. Otherwise they'll wait for a budget with some substance. SOK, judging from earlier behaviour, will not engage with public opinion that much. What might come is a media outlet commissoning an opinion poll. However, in that case it'd most likely already have been done. I have still to see any NOlympics movement. Probably because so few truly believe that SOK's bid will succeed this time after so many failed attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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