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Posted

Redlands Whitewater Centre

  • Slalom Canoe
  • Capacity: 8,000

Been looking into where exactly where Redlands Whitewater Centre is actually located as it understandably does not appear on googlemaps as yet.

With the help of a community planning video posted by the Redlands City Council (below), I think I’ve got it.

Redlands Whitewater Centre  - circled in Blue

The Gabba circled in Red

Athletes Village circled in Green

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From the Athletes Village atNorthshore Hamilton south to Redlands Whitewater Centre is 23kms (14 miles) by road.

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“The Redland Whitewater Centre is a proposed venue to be used for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic Games, to host the Canoe (Slalom). The venue would include a capacity of 8,000, with a mixture of permanent and temporary grandstands. Post Olympics, it would continue as a whitewater centre, emergency services training and adventure park.”  Credit: Austadiums.com

 

The Redlands Whitewater Centre will be adjacent to an adventure park and water playground as part of the Birkdale Community Precinct.  See video below by Redlands City Council:

 

Posted (edited)

Funny you should bring that one up. It’s one that puzzles/concerns me.

Whitewater facilities are one of those expensive, specialised, dedicated facilities that put a burden on hosts. LA ‘84 can’t even make a business case for a temporary facility in LA environs and is touting instead using an existing centre in Oklahoma City.

Sydney’s Penrith centre was one of the successes of the games - it’s proven to be a success as a games legacy. During Brisbane’s bidding it was oft mentioned that it could use the Sydney centre so as to align with the IOC’s “new Norm” mantra to avoid any new, unnecessary construction of venues and use existing venues.

And now here we are with Brisbane planning a brand new centre, covered within the Federal Government’s contribution. How is this necessary or economically justified? Does Australia really NEED a second whitewater centre? I doubt it. It seems to me having two now destine’s one to become a white elephant. 

Edited by Sir Rols
  • Thanks 1
Posted

So much for Bach & Co's. so-called "Agenda 2020/New Norm" initiatives, 'eh'? Not to mention the rabid supporter(s) of such initiatives, who are now (gleefully) demonstrating brand-new (redundant) facilities. Talk about a contradictory message, to say the least.

Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, FYI said:

So much for Bach & Co's. so-called "Agenda 2020/New Norm" initiatives, 'eh'? Not to mention the rabid supporter(s) of such initiatives, who are now (gleefully) demonstrating brand-new (redundant) facilities. Talk about a contradictory message, to say the least.

Darn right. The whitewater venues are basically the summer games’ equivalent of a sliding track. If ever there was a case for the IOC to step in and say “Wait! Do you really need this?”, a la PyeongChang and Milano-Cortina, this is it. This is the opportunity to prove the sincerity of their “no new builds, no unnecessary spending” policy.

Edited by Sir Rols
Posted

 

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

Funny you should bring that one up. It’s one that puzzles/concerns me.

Whitewater facilities are one of those expensive, specialised, dedicated facilities that put a burden on hosts. LA ‘84 can’t even make a business case for a temporary facility in LA environs and is touting instead using an existing centre in Oklahoma City.

Sydney’s Penrith centre was one of the successes of the games - it’s proven to be a success as a games legacy. During Brisbane’s bidding it was oft mentioned that it could use the Sydney centre so as to align with the IOC’s “new Norm” mantra to avoid any new, unnecessary construction of venues and use existing venues.

And now here we are with Brisbane planning a brand new centre, covered within the Federal Government’s contribution. How is this necessary or economically justified? Does Australia really NEED a second whitewater centre? I doubt it. It seems to me having two now destine’s one to become a white elephant. 

While I loved visiting the Penrth Regatta Centre during the amazing Sydney 2000 Games, that precinct did not have what is planned at the Birkdale Community Precinct in Brisbane.  

And yes, Australia will also now have a whitewater venue at Redlands but leading up to and beyond 2043, will have so much more.

It should be noted that Unlike Penrith in 2000, the flatwater rowing/kayak events will be held on the existing Wyralong body of water.

The Redlands Whitewater Centre is just a part of a much larger 62 hectacres (152 acres) of the very large Birkdale Community Precinct which includes:

  • Indigenous Cultural Hub
  • Adventure Water Playground
  • Community Plaza
  • Communications Hub
  • Conservation Hub
  • Entertainment Hub
  • book tickets for shows or exhibits within the precinct
  • Innovation Hub
  • Willards Homestead
  • WW2 Radio Centre
  • Public Swimming Lagoon
  • Zip-line
  • Tree Top Walk
  • Picnic and Family Areas
  • Whitewater Centre 

The entire 62 hectacres Birkdale Community Precinct is circled in Green below.  The Whitewater venue is in blue.

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Posted

The entire 62 hectacre / 152 acres sustainable Birkdale Community Precinct, including the relatively smaller 2032 whitewater venue, is currently going through the community consultation phase:

  • Indigenous Cultural Hub
  • Adventure Water Playground
  • Community Plaza
  • Communications Hub
  • Conservation Hub
  • Entertainment Hub
  • book tickets for shows or exhibits within the precinct
  • Innovation Hub
  • Willards Homestead
  • WW2 Radio Centre
  • Public Swimming Lagoon
  • Zip-line
  • Tree Top Walk
  • Picnic and Family Areas
  • Whitewater Centre 

Looks like an amazing multi-use community precinct in a beautiful setting.

Posted
3 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

The Redlands Whitewater Centre is just a part of a much larger 62 hectacres (152 acres) of the very large Birkdale Community Precinct which includes:

And this precinct NEEDED a whitewater centre because….? 

The facilities at the precinct look like a lot of good community-focussed leisure activities. A nice place for family picnics and barbecues on a Sunday arvo. Whitewater courses are specialised venues for dedicated canoe/kayakers.

The state of California - the fifth largest economic region in the world with a population near double that of Oz, can’t find a justification for its own whitewater venue. But Oz NEEDS two???????

Posted
2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

And this precinct NEEDED a whitewater centre because….? 

... because Brisbane is hosting the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

With 80% of venues already existing in Queensland for the Games, this is one few new venues that Brisbane 2032 is constructing. 

Yes, there is a whitewater centre in Sydney, 933 kms away from Brisbane.

But in this case, Brisbane 2032 have decided to build their own whitewater venue in Brisbane.

Also, as far as a Flatwater venue goes for rowing and sprint kayak, yes there is a flatwater venue in Sydney 933 kms away, but they’ve decided to use build some temporary grand stands and upgrade the existing Queensland State Rowing Centre (QSRC) at Lake Wyralong.

The venue fits nicely into the Birkdale Community Precinct and there’s plenty of space for it.   My money is on the community backing the Precinct proposal and the project incorporating the Redlands Whitewater course will go ahead.

Bravo Brisbane 2032.

I should mention that there are also plans to use the Redlands Whitewater course for Swift Water and Emergency Services Rescue Training.

South East Queensland is absolutely booming, even before the Games were awarded, and I understand is experieincing the fastest growing population growth in the entire country.

Queensland doesn’t give two hoots about LA’s problem in funding or building a whitewater course or how big their economy is, that’s LA’s problem.

Meanwhile, an exciting community multi-use community precint incorporating a white water venue is coming to Redlands, and by road only 23 kms from the Brisbane 2032 Athletes Village.

  • Confused 2
Posted (edited)

OMG! You really do want to spin this as a spotless games. Not a single flaw in the planning. Every expense justified and necessary. Nothing to question about it or improve upon.

3 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

... because Brisbane is hosting the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Australia is also hosting the games. The Federal Government of the Commonwealth of Australia is also footing a significant part of the bill for these games. Which means taxpayers in Penrith, Prahran and Perth are also helping to foot that bill. Anyway, Sydney and Melbourne will already be hosting football preliminaries, all those thousands of kms away from Brisbane. 

3 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Yes, there is a whitewater centre in Sydney, 933 kms away from Brisbane.

Which was suggested and nominated many times through the bid/canditature process as being acceptable and suitable for the games. Meanwhile, distance is no problem when talking about events in Townsville - a mere 1345 km from Brisbane.

3 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Also, as far as a Flatwater venue goes for rowing and sprint kayak, yes there is a flatwater venue in Sydney 933 kms away, but they’ve decided to use build some temporary grand stands and upgrade the existing Queensland State Rowing Centre (QSRC) at Lake Wyralong.

Flatwater sports have not been mentioned so far in this discussion. But as you say, there is already the existing QSRC in the State, requiring only temporary grandstands and upgrades - NOT building a whole new facility from scratch.

3 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

The venue fits nicely into the Birkdale Community Precinct and there’s plenty of space for it.   My money is on the community backing the Precinct proposal and the project incorporating the Redlands Whitewater course will go ahead.

What? A community precinct offering a range of facilities/activities for the community, also NEEDS to offer a high performance, specialised facility for competitive elite sport? It actually seems the odd one out in the list of facilities proposed for Birkdale. If whitewater centres were such popular and desired community recreation facilities, surely they’d be common around the world - maybe every Wet-and-Wild waterpark would have one. Instead it’s rare for most countries to have more than one - heck, some continents alone would be lucky (the richer ones) to have more than one.

3 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Queensland doesn’t give two hoots about LA’s problem in funding or building a whitewater course or how big their economy is, that’s LA’s problem..

So a Melburnian is speaking for all of Queensland now?

So, Queensland shouldn’t give two hoots about any lessons or examples that can be drawn from the experience of other Olympic hosts. I guess it shouldn’t give two hoots about sending observers to Paris or LA either then - there’s nothing they can learn from them. After all, Paris’ or LA’s issues are their problem.

Whilst there, I guess they also shouldn’t give two hoots about the IOC’s “New Norm” desire to limit unnecessary spending or construction of new venues when there are already suitable venues available. Or give two hoots that they used those “New Norm” ideals in their proposals to land the games.

Edited by Sir Rols
  • Like 1
Posted

Wyralong Flatwater Centre

@ Queensland State Rowing Centre (QSRC)

  • Rowing
  • Canoe Sprint
  • Games Capacity: 14,000
  • facilities to be upgraded including temporarygrandstands
  • An Athletes Village will be located for athletes at Kooralbyn Resort, 40kms south of Lake Wyralong for these events

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Scenic Rim Council

 

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Googlemap photo, QSRC

 

Posted

Anyway …….. 

and exactly  as per the IOC-Approved Brisbane 2032 Master Plan released to the world some 20 months ago

Brisbane 2032 will have the slalom canoe and flatwater canoe sprint and rowing events at two different Venues.

Redlands Whitewater Centre (new):
> Canoe Slalom

- within the large multi-purpose  Birkdale Community Precinct.

Wyralong Flatwater Centre (existing);

> Canoe Sprint

> Rowing 

***********************************
                   Go Brisbane 2032!
***********************************

Posted

Venues

With the funding sorted out now, should anyone now wish to revise the venues in the IOC-Approved plan,

here is the link: 

click here >> Brisbane 2032 Masterplan

:rolleyes:


Also, there is that lovely Masterplan video:

 

Posted

(apologies for posting in the Brisbane 2032 thread by mistake just now) 

 

Broadbeach Park Stadium, Gold Coast

  • Beach Volleyball
  • temporary venue
  • Games capacity:  12,000
  • Distance: 9kms north-west of Gold Coast Athletes Village, Robina

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At 12,000 capacity, the Brisbane 2032 venue will be more than double the size of the Gold Coast 2018 Commonwealth Games Beach Volleyball venue at Coolangatta.

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Posted

Beach Volleyball

For the Beach Volleyball competition at Broadbeach Park, Brisbane 2032 will take a lot of learnings from previous Games including the stunning Stadium and incredible Sydney 2000 competition held on the sands of Bondi Beach in those amazing scenes.  

What great memories and what a site as overhead television pictures zoomed in on this iconic location.

@TorchbearerSydney 

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Credit:  Sydney 2000 - Bondi Beach Volleyball Stadium - Austadiums.com

“The Bondi Beach Volleyball Arena was a temporary stadium constructed for the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games and stood for just six weeks. The stadium was constructed on the world-famous Bondi Beach and had over 10,000 seats.”

“The stadium had uncovered seating around three sides, and a partly covered stand on one side which included corporate and media facilities. During the Olympics, the stadium was packed for just about every session of the Beach Volleyball creating an electric atmosphere.”

Brisbane 2032 - Broadbeach Park 

I understand the Gold Coast CW Games Beach Volleyball Stadium at Coolangatta had a 4,000 or 5,000 capacity,  but as yet I haven’t been able to confirm which it was.    If it was 4,000 , then the 2032 Stadium size at 12,000 will be triple the size of the stadium used at the 2018 Commonwealth Games.   

It would be good to see a Beach Volleyball Stadium back on an actual beach in 2032, as it was in Sydney 2000 and Rio 2016, both of which used 10,000 seat stadiums.   

Given Broadbeach Park adjoins the actual beach, not sure where the temporary Beach Volleyball Stadium in 2032 will be on the beach sand or further inland in the actual Broadbeach Park. Most likely in Broadbeach Park itself given the beach does not appear to be big enough (?)

Posted

If you can have functioning beach volleyball on an old factory site in the middle of Birmingham, I wouldn't be too worried about whether you put your stadium on the beach or just next to it :lol:

Posted
57 minutes ago, yoshi said:

If you can have functioning beach volleyball on an old factory site in the middle of Birmingham, I wouldn't be too worried about whether you put your stadium on the beach or just next to it :lol:

Not worried at all.

But there are only two Olympic Games where the stadium was on an actual beach:  Rio 2016 and Sydney 2000.

Not necessary at all, but it sure does look and feel a lot better.

 

Posted
21 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Queensland doesn’t give two hoots about LA’s problem in funding or building a whitewater course or how big their economy is, that’s LA’s problem.

just gonna say that we don't have a funding problem, it's just that there is zero need for a whitewater course in LA County so building one from scratch would just be a useless waste of money (especially when there's one already existing and in use by the US team)

  • Like 3
Posted
46 minutes ago, Bear said:

just gonna say that we don't have a funding problem, it's just that there is zero need for a whitewater course in LA County so building one from scratch would just be a useless waste of money (especially when there's one already existing and in use by the US team)

Yes, and that’s the point. It’s such a specialised venue for such a niche sport, there’s really no need at all for any country to require multiple facilities. In Australia’s case, it just screams loudly that it will be making one of its courses a white elephant.

Posted

In a country of just 26 million, it's virtually guaranteed that one of those two will become a white elephant. But of 'course', it's quite amusing to see how you-know-who likes to play both sides of the 'new norm' card & deflect criticism when it suits them (much like the IOC does).

Anything that requires a unique venue, should really be sought elsewhere first. And if nothing suitable is nowhere in relative sight, then & only then, should new construction be considered. But that's not the case here at all (where something perfectly suitable is in relative nearby reach), & it goes against everything that the "new norm" supposedly stands for. 

  • Like 1
Posted

IOC Recommendations on Redlands Whitewater Centre / Flatwater Centre

Source: IOC Feasibility Assessment - Olympic Games Brisbane - February 2021 - page 30

It should ne noted that in the Feb 2021 IOC Feasibility Report by the Future Host Commission, the IOC made the following recommendations to use the Sydney International Regatta Centre instead in regard to both the Redlands Whitewater Centre and the Flatwater Rowing Canoe/Kayak Sprint venues:

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As with a similar IOC recommendation to use Carrara Stadium for Ceremonies and Track and Field instead of The Gabba, the Queensland Government opted instead to proceed with their own plans regarding these venues and not adopt the IOC Recommendations.

This was also highlighted at that time in the Brisbane 2032 thread.

Posted

Thanks for providing the smoking gun.

57 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

As with a similar IOC recommendation to use Carrara Stadium for Ceremonies and Track and Field instead of The Gabba, the Queensland Government opted instead to proceed with their own plans regarding these venues and not adopt the IOC Recommendations.

This was also highlighted at that time in the Brisbane 2032 thread.

So that makes it okay then? The Queensland Government decided, so it must be the right decision because governments never make wrong decisions or waste money (especially money given to them by another layer of Government).

I have no quibbles with the Gabba - the Qld government is funding it, it is an important venue for the city, and Brisbane does deserve to get a nice legacy out of the games. Neither flatwater - as you’ve posted elsewhere on this thread, that just requires some temporary grandstands and upgrades and rowing IS a community sport - it will (as I’m sure it already does) get used by university and school rowing clubs and will serve the Qld community for many decades to come.

But whitewater is a different kettle of fish. It’s an expensive facility, highly specialised and is basically a competitive venue for a niche elite sport.

Honestly, how can one argue against the notion of saving significant costs, demonstrating a legacy use of existing Olympic venues, increasing nationwide participation in a significantly nationally-funded event, and highlighting sustainable practices in the organisation of a games. That the Qld govt unilaterally decided to do it against IOC advice (with the help of national funds) is a pretty weak justification. Is that going to be the answer for any concerns and issues over the next nine years - Queensland decided to do it that at, so it’s not up for debate?

  • Like 1
Posted

Consider Using  …….

From the IOC Feasibility Assessment - Olympic Games Brisbane - Feb 2021 here is the full list of the “Consider Using” alternative venues made by the IOC Future Host Commission:

This Report was published just under 2 years ago and was also discussed at length in the Brisbane 2032 thread:.

[ For background, the entire Brisbane 2032 thread containing over 1,400 posts on Gamesbids.com was somehow “accidentally deleted” by the Moderator with apologies toward the end of 2021. ]


CONSIDER USING …’  list by the IOC

Athletics/Ceremonies

Brisbane Olympic Stadium (50,000)

(Gabba)

-> Consider using Carrara Stadium for Athletics (40,000)

-> Consider using the Gabba for Ceremonies (40,000)

 

Aquatics/Water Polo

Brisbane Arena  (15,000)

-> Consider using Gold Coast Aquatic Centre (15,000)

 

Basketball

Brisbane Indoor Sports Centre  (15,000)

-> If Gold Coast Aquatic Centre is used for Swimming, could use planned Brisbane Arena for Basketball

 

Canoe Slalom

Redlands Whitewater Centre (8,000)

-> Consider using existing Sydney 2000 legacy venue

 

Hockey

Ballymore Stadium (15,000)

-> Consider using existing Hockey venue in Gold Coast as an alternative option


Rowing/Canoe and Kayak Sprint

Wyralong Flatwater Centre (14,000)

(was Larapinta)

-> Consider using existing Sydney 2000 legacy venue

Posted
9 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Thanks for providing the smoking gun.

So that makes it okay then? The Queensland Government decided, so it must be the right decision because governments never make wrong decisions or waste money (especially money given to them by another layer of Government).

I have no quibbles with the Gabba - the Qld government is funding it, it is an important venue for the city, and Brisbane does deserve to get a nice legacy out of the games. Neither flatwater - as you’ve posted elsewhere on this thread, that just requires some temporary grandstands and upgrades and rowing IS a community sport - it will (as I’m sure it already does) get used by university and school rowing clubs and will serve the Qld community for many decades to come.

But whitewater is a different kettle of fish. It’s an expensive facility, highly specialised and is basically a competitive venue for a niche elite sport.

Honestly, how can one argue against the notion of saving significant costs, demonstrating a legacy use of existing Olympic venues, increasing nationwide participation in a significantly nationally-funded event, and highlighting sustainable practices in the organisation of a games. That the Qld govt unilaterally decided to do it against IOC advice (with the help of national funds) is a pretty weak justification. Is that going to be the answer for any concerns and issues over the next nine years - Queensland decided to do it that at, so it’s not up for debate?

Sorry to startling you with this startling old news.

This Report has been out for 2 years now.

 

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