Russia at Paris 2024… or not

[Sir Rols]

This is probably going to be one of the most debated issues over the next year leading to Paris 2024, so worthwhile starting its own thread.

Hidalgo’s now come out against any Russian presence at Paris. She acknowledges it’s ultimately the IOC’s decision, but makes her preference clear:

No Russian team at 2024 Olympic Games while Ukraine invasion continues, Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo says

Edited February 7, 2023 by Sir Rols

[StefanMUC]

Yes, also reported in German media today. There was also a joint statement from Nordic NOCs which was pretty clear, and the first Olympics organisations to come out against the IOC (before it was “just” polticians).

https://www.dif.dk/nyheder/2023/02/de-nordiske-lande-gentager-rusland-opfordring-til-ioc

(English text inside the article)

[Rob2012]

Don't forget the real victims in all this...

In a letter from Bach to Guttsait, which has been seen by the BBC, the IOC president says comments from Ukrainian officials suggesting allowing Russian and Belarusian athletes would promote the war are "defamatory".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/64579619

[StefanMUC]

There really is nothing too low for the IOC anymore.

They are cornered in Lausanne, mainly thanks to buddy Vlad not being nice, but they are making it worse for themselves.

This is basically the same attitude shown when they were faced with Oslo saying no thanks after the IOC demand list had arrived in Norway.

[StefanMUC]

And here’s a letter from Guttsait:

https://twitter.com/jensweinreich/status/1623732769418366977?s=46&t=PNxJwVpv2P8tkPhE4SopzQ

In terms of smart communication, Ukraine is really mastering it.

The IOC is barenaked, they know it, but they pretend as if they are still in full control of what will happen with Paris 2024.

[Sir Rols]

Okay, it’ll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow 

New UK Culture Secretary to chair international summit on Russian participation at Paris 2024

[StefanMUC]

Global Athletes are on fire

https://twitter.com/globalathletehq/status/1623653063322963974?s=46&t=0L-6Xg-gwycRCcVqOUmTSA

And the political pressure really is growing. Some NOCs (outside the Nordics) will come under fire from their governments if they continue to side with the IOC.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/ukraines-zelenskiy-took-part-meeting-olympics-lithuania-says-2023-02-10/

[Sir Rols]

And this appears to be the outcome of the summit

Poland proposes dissident Russians could compete at Paris 2024, with 35 nations expected to call for ban

[ulu]

Quote

The Australian government says at this stage it is not backing a call to ban Russian and Belarusian athletes from competing at the 2024 Olympics.

Australia's Sports Minister Anika Wells refuted reports - based on remarks from Lithuania's sports minister - that Australia backs the ban with the other 34 nations at the online meeting.

She told SBS News the Australian government condemns the illegal invasion of Ukraine, but on the Olympics takes the position of supporting a pathway for Russian and Belarusian athletes to compete under a neutral flag as "neutral athletes" - an option raised by the IOC on 25 January.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/australia-clarifies-position-on-ukraines-call-to-ban-russia-belarus-from-2024-olympics/42fhr4xnp

So Australia is one country where the NOC and government are on the same page.

[TorchbearerSydney]

France, Australia, Italy and the US have a special status regarding calls for boycotts and sanctions as they are future hosts....I expect them to tread much more carefully on this issue.

And I dont think that is unreasonable.

[stryker]

There's a very simple solution to all of this. The IOC doesn't make international law. Legally, the IOC has no jurisdiction over who can and cannot be granted entry into a country. All France has to do is in the lead up time to the Paris Olympics, is suddenly deny entry to Russian and Belarussian athletes. They can say it's a visa issue or better yet, a national security issue. The IOC would be powerless to do anything other than stamp their feet and rage like a toddler who did not get his or her favorite candy in the store. Think about it, a couple weeks before the Olympics and suddenly France denies entry to Russian and Belarussian athletes. What is the IOC going to do? Strip the Olympics from Paris? Not feasible. Launch a court case with CAS? Perhaps, but this would be long and drawn out. That would favor the French government because the IOC wouldn't be able to keep up with the court costs. Even worse ,with the war in Ukraine still likely to be raging, it would make the IOC look very bad PR wise. There's already precedence for this, most recently with the world boxing championships in Belgrade when the Kosovo team was denied entry into Serbia over a "visa issue." There was criticism over it, but at the end of the day both the IBA and even the IOC acknowledged there was nothing they could do.

[FYI]

Wouldn't there be other ramifications to consider to wait it out that long ('til the very last minute), besides the bad PR one in the heated debates over this over the next year plus to begin with. But what about the few countries that would plan a boycott. I'd have to assume such a move would be officially announced a couple of months before the opening, not a couple of weeks. Plus, would France want to play that ultimate card & be portrayed as "the bad guy" (which you know such a move would cause by some). I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but IDK if that's such a 'very simple solution' as you're making it out to be. 

[Rob2012]

 

[Guilga]

Well, i guess Bach will have to give back that Russian public TV money, then!

In all seriousness however, this is a gamechanger: France, host country of next summer games, is included there. And if the war continues, and stances remain the same, the IOC could have their problem solved! The host country could indeed block them for the IOC instead, altough the commitee might try to do a 180 after the fact just to save face. I guess Lausanne might start to sweat a litlle now...

6 hours ago, stryker said:

There's a very simple solution to all of this. The IOC doesn't make international law. Legally, the IOC has no jurisdiction over who can and cannot be granted entry into a country. All France has to do is in the lead up time to the Paris Olympics, is suddenly deny entry to Russian and Belarussian athletes. They can say it's a visa issue or better yet, a national security issue. The IOC would be powerless to do anything other than stamp their feet and rage like a toddler who did not get his or her favorite candy in the store. Think about it, a couple weeks before the Olympics and suddenly France denies entry to Russian and Belarussian athletes. What is the IOC going to do? Strip the Olympics from Paris? Not feasible. Launch a court case with CAS? Perhaps, but this would be long and drawn out. That would favor the French government because the IOC wouldn't be able to keep up with the court costs. Even worse ,with the war in Ukraine still likely to be raging, it would make the IOC look very bad PR wise. There's already precedence for this, most recently with the world boxing championships in Belgrade when the Kosovo team was denied entry into Serbia over a "visa issue." There was criticism over it, but at the end of the day both the IBA and even the IOC acknowledged there was nothing they could do.

 

3 hours ago, TheOtherRob said:

 

 

[StefanMUC]

FIE, the international fencing federation, today approved a FULL (non-neutral!) return of Russians and Belarussians to competition incl Olympic qualifiers.

Vote was apparently 60% in favour.

Reminder that former FIE President (and probably still godfather) is sanctioned oligarch Alisher Usmanov, one of Russia’s richest men. Also reminder in which sport Fencing 1976 was active…

Absolutely disgusting. I hope the 40% against will withdraw from FIE.

[AustralianFan]

23 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

FIE, the international fencing federation, today approved a FULL (non-neutral!) return of Russians and Belarussians to competition incl Olympic qualifiers.

Vote was apparently 60% in favour.

Reminder that former FIE President (and probably still godfather) is sanctioned oligarch Alisher Usmanov, one of Russia’s richest men. Also reminder in which sport Fencing 1976 was active…

Absolutely disgusting. I hope the 40% against will withdraw from FIE.

Absolutely.

[StefanMUC]

As a follow-up to the FIE decision, the German Fencing Federation came under massive fire here because they were apparently sitting on the fence, at least not openly supporting Ukraine, and then demanding the German govt (that finances it with around 2 million € per year) should ensure Russians can participate in fencing competitions here.

However today the federation cancelled the foil world cup to be held in May in small town but fencing mecca Tauberbischofsheim (TBB) with a rather cryptic statement. There must have been significant political pressure, as our govt clearly supported the initiative of those 35 or so countries to keep Putin‘s and Lukashenko‘s sports armies out of Paris.

The beauy of this cancellation lies especially in the fact that TBB is the hometown of a German 1976 fencing gold medallist who now resigns in Lausanne.

 

[AustralianFan]

Arrest Warrant issued for Putin.

 

[GoNutz]

Quote

4:37pm: IOC to decide on Russian participation at Paris Olympics 'at appropriate time'

The International Olympic Committee has recommended the return to competition of Russian and Belarusian athletes as individuals under a neutral flag with no links to the military.

IOC President Thomas Bach said on Tuesday that the IOC had recommended to international federations and international sports event organisers that "athletes with a Russian or a Belarusian passport must compete only as Individual Neutral Athletes".

Bach added that a decision on Russian and Belarusian participation at next year's Paris Olympics would be taken "at the appropriate time".

"We want to monitor the implemention of these recommendations as long as possible... to be enabled to take an informed decision," Bach said after an executive board meeting of the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

The board, he said, "did not consider it appropriate to give a timeline... no one knows what's happening tomorrow or in nine months".

Ukraine has threatened to boycott the Paris Games should Russian and Belarusian athletes compete there, even as neutrals.

Not great. 

(It's the France24 live blog which has an emoji in the URL and won't let me post it.) 

[StefanMUC]

Apparently, anyone with ties to army/police etc cannot enter.

So tomorrow, CSCA and co will see a massive loss of members and all will be fine for Fencing 1976.

The only way this can still be stopped now is probably if NBC and other broadcasters tell the IOC they didn’t pay billions to broadcast triumphant war crime supporters.

[FYI]

But the Olympics should never be about politics, right?! 

[Scotguy II]

I am starting to think maybe to not try and purchase tickets for the Paris games as currently it is looking like it will become a right mess...

[FYI]

If one was to solely view it in that context, then no one would ever go to any Olympic Games, since it seems that each edition always has it's own set of controversies/issues; i.e. Athens 2004 security concerns post 9/11, Beijing 2008 & 2022 political concerns,  Sochi 2014 terrorist concerns, Rio 2016 Zika virus & polluted Guanabara Bay concerns, etc.  

If one really wants to go, they should go. Cause the next Games will surely have their own set of unusual factors surrounding them that would make some think twice. If I had my druthers, I most certainly would rather much prefer to go to Paris 2024 than L.A. 2028. It's all a matter of preference & how comfortable one feels in actually making the journey to what really would be for many, a once-in-a-lifetime joyous experience.

[MisterSG1]

Paris was to be the first “normal” summer games since London, at least that’s how I see it.

My opinion about this matter seems to go against the groupthink but I’ll say it anyways. What kind of power do us as everyday citizens have with our governments?

What I mean, imagine someone training from Belarus, 2021 wasn’t really a true Olympics, and now finally for the first time ever they’d have a shot at being at the world stage, but because of moves done by their own government which they honesty have no say over, they are effectively being banned. I’m not sure why the idea of them competing with an Olympic flag is so controversial because they wouldn’t be representing Russia or Belarus in that matter.

I’m not going to get into the politics of the war, and let’s be honest it’s a bad thing, but why is Russia’s invasion of Ukraine considered so bad, but the invasion of the US into Iraq which lasted an incredibly long time wasn’t strongly condemned by the international community to the extent that the Americans and those who followed them into Iraq be banned from Athens 2004.

I recall there was lots of opposition within the US against the war in Iraq, but the government didn’t care what the people thought. 
 

This situation is rather unique though, while the US and USSR were the “west” and “east” when speaking of 1980 and 1984, the boycotts there were of course different. I presume pressure of this decision would cause France to boycott its own Olympics if athletes from Russia or Belarus were allowed to compete. It’s a rather unusual scenario for sure.

I’m not sure honestly how divisive this issue is, the idea of the Olympics at least in theory is to separate politics from sport. One such example is the Russians still playing in the NHL, it seems most fans of the NHL with my experience online aren’t totally against Ovechkin and others continually to play in the NHL. I know the last time the Leafs met the Capitals (Ovechkin’s team) in Toronto the last time, the crowd didn’t boo each time Ovechkin had the puck.

Thats just my rant on this, I know I will probably be destroyed, but in the Olympics I presume we are supposed to put politics aside with a truce and compete. At least that’s how it should be.

[StefanMUC]

Ok. Now go to Vlad and tell him that he should separate sports and politics, something he has never done. 
 

You can have your opinion on the matter, but I call it naive. Or in other words: neutrality helps the offender, and there is a crystal clear case here who that offender is.

Your Belarus athlete example is deprived of a sports accolade, but they still have home, family, and life. Many Ukrainian athletes have none of that anymore. That is the only perspective that counts IMHO.

Let alone the fact that many athletes from RUS/BLR are army members (at least on paper) and unless they leave/desert automatically support the war. Though of course in the coming days, many of them will be allowed to leave the army in order to use the loophole the IOC has kindly provided.