The Gabba

[Sir Rols]

3 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

I don’t think it will “fuel public debate” and will fade away like many senate inquries do, which have a habit of disappearing into the ether , never to be heard from again.

I’m sure you hope so. You’ve always had a problem with public debate

Edited September 14, 2023 by Sir Rols

[AustralianFan]

16 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I’m sure you hope so. 

It’s my personal opinion that this senate inquiry will not fuel public debate and lead anywhere except a lot of huffing and puffing by oppsition politicians such as canavan.

It cannot force the Australian Government to suddenly fund a rescue mission for the Commonwealth Games nor can it stop the Australian Government’s co-funding of the Brisbane Olympics together with the Queensland Government.

I could be wrong, but honestly, I can’t see it going anywhere. 

[FYI]

20 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

You’ve always had a problem with public debate

That's putting it mildly. 

[Sir Rols]

4 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

I could be wrong, but honestly, I can’t see it going anywhere. 

I can honestly see the writing on the wall for Redlands

[AustralianFan]

4 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I can honestly see the writing on the wall for Redlands

Yes, of all the venues in the Brisbane 2032 plan, I can see Redlands Whitewater Centre being the most vulnerable, especially if there is a change of government in Queensland, which of course is not certain yet.

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, AustralianFan said:

Yes, of all the venues in the Brisbane 2032 plan, I can see Redlands Whitewater Centre being the most vulnerable, especially if there is a change of government in Queensland, which of course is not certain yet.

Wow! That’s a pretty big turnaround from Mr…

On 2/21/2023 at 9:32 PM, AustralianFan said:

I literally just spent several posts telling you the IOC’s note to Brisbane to consider using the existing Sydney venue was not taken up by Brisbane 203.

If you want to flog a dead horse, go right ahead.  But Brisbane have the Games and they are on course to build the Redlands Whitewater Centre within the large Birkdale Community Precinct.

 

is going ahead and will be a new venue 

Nice to see you address the message instead of trying to shoot down the messenger.

The irony is, if/when such a decision is announced by what you deem a “trusted source” (ie; the IOC Media Relations Unit), you’re going to be first one on to praise it.

Personally, I don’t think it’s even so contingent on a change of Qld government. With Federal funds involved, it’s pretty close to Dead Man Walking now.

[Australian Kiwi]

20 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Wow! That’s a pretty big turnaround from Mr…

Nice to see you address the message instead of trying to shoot down the messenger.

The irony is, if/when such a decision is announced by what you deem a “trusted source” (ie; the IOC Media Relations Unit), you’re going to be first one on to praise it.

Personally, I don’t think it’s even so contingent on a change of Qld government. With Federal funds involved, it’s pretty close to Dead Man Walking now.

Goes to show a megaphone propagandist mentality doesnt pay off. Its a dangerous mindset to play in, exactly the type of blind faith that supports fascism and thought control. 

Thank goodness the conversation revolves around the Olympics and not something like... i dunno.. human rights.

[Australian Kiwi]

2 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Yes, but it’s not going anywhere.  It may or may not fuel ongoing debate on preparations for Brisbane 2032, that remains to be seen.  

I don’t think it will “fuel public debate” and will fade away like many senate inquries do, which have a habit of disappearing into the ether , never to be heard from again.

mate - you have a problem. As above, the topic at hand is fairly innocent (Olympics organisation) but this kind of attitude towards a democratic process is troubling and I really encourage you to reflect on the weight of what you are implying. 

I also note you're promoting Yes 2023 (great - I'm voting yes too) BUT PLEASE if you are engaging in advocacy for this cause beyond these forums and elsewhere on the internet be mindful that the impacts of your demonstrated pigheadness could be devastating. Its exactly that kind of lecturing and arrogance which could very well see the No vote prevail. 

 

[Australian Kiwi]

Some material for our resident TASS reporter to digest......

 

Some of the interesting recommendations to come out of the report: 

Recommendation 1 (re: 2026 Commonwealth Games)

The committee recommends that the Australian Government takes on a facilitation and coordination role in order to salvage the 2026 Commonwealth Games being held in Australia. Before the end of 2023, the Australian Government should:

1. establish an intergovernmental forum, through National Cabinet or a bespoke mechanism, bringing together representatives from all three levels of government, business associations and community groups, to examine options to salvage the Commonwealth Games;
2. direct the Departments of Health and Aged Care and Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts to produce low, medium and high funding options for the Australian Government that would enable the Commonwealth Games to be salvaged and hosted in 2026; and
3. subject to the above, and in coordination with any other relevant stakeholders, including Gold Coast City Council and other local governments, enter into discussions with Commonwealth Games Federation and Commonwealth Games Australia about prospects for hosting the Games, including a reduced or decentralised Games if necessary.

Recommendation 5 (re: 2032 Olympic Games cost of Gabba rebuild)

The committee recommends the Australian Government works with the Queensland Government, affected communities and Olympics Games organising bodies to urgently review the decision to host Athletics events at the Gabba stadium and the associated plans to demolish the East Brisbane State School and temporarily remove community access to Raymond Park. The review should consider the feasibility of alternative options, including using existing infrastructure, and work to find a solution that is acceptable to these communities.

Recommendation 7 (re: 2032 Olympic Game utilising 2000 Olympic venues to cut costs)

The committee recommends the Australian Government works through an intergovernmental forum, such as National Cabinet, to explore the most cost‑effective solution for hosting the canoe slalom events at the Brisbane 2032 Games. If it is feasible to host the events at the Penrith Whitewater Centre in New South Wales, including with refurbishments, this option should be prioritised over building a new facility.

 

 

Senate Inquiry - Dissenting Report tabled by Senator Allman-Payne

 

No justification for the Gabba redevelopment

1.1The inquiry has demonstrated that the demolition of the Gabba Stadium, at a cost of $2.7 billion, does not need to go ahead to ensure the success of the Olympic Games. This is based on:

Evidence given by the Australian Olympic Committee over the course of the inquiry that the Gabba rebuild is not required for the 2032 Olympic Games.[1]

Evidence from the City of the Gold Coast that Carrara Stadium could accommodate the athletics.[2]

1.2The Queensland Government is moving ahead with the Gabba redevelopment, which will require the closure of East Brisbane State School and clearing of Raymond Park, based on advice given by architecture firm Populous.[3]Is it not clear on what evidence or data Populous based this advice on.

1.3The Queensland Government have referenced the 2018 Stadiums Taskforce Report to justify the Gabba demolition and rebuild. However, the 2018 Stadiums Taskforce Report recommends against building new venues and suggests that the life of the Gabba could be extended with internal and external upgrades.[4]

1.4Athletics Australia also indicated that they would like to see legacy infrastructure, and that rather than a temporary venue, they would like to see investment in a venue where:

“In the lead-up to the games, our athletes get to use that facility and that, post the games, the sport of athletics gets to use the facilities”.[5]

Community opposition

1.5There is significant community opposition to the Gabba redevelopment. This opposition was clear based on evidence from the East Brisbane State School Parents and Citizens (P&C), Friends of Raymond Park, Brisbane Residents United and the West End Community Association.

 

1.6Brisbane Residents United noted:

We believe the proposal to spend $2.5 billion (likely $4 billion with the inevitable budget blowouts) on demolishing and rebuilding The Gabba stadium for the 2032 Olympic Games is a manifest misallocation and misuse of public monies.[6]

1.7This community opposition is a major liability to the Queensland Government that will negatively impact the success of the 2032 Olympic Games.

Health impacts of Gabba redevelopment

1.8The Gabba redevelopment will negatively impact the mental and physical health of surrounding residents. The Friends of Raymond Park representative noted that:

“The importance of residents' personal health and wellbeing does not appear to even be a consideration”.[7]

Negative housing impacts from the Games

1.9Olympics Games fuel housing unaffordability. This is clear from evidence provided by Q Shelter, West End Community Association and Brisbane Residents United.

1.10Q Shelter stated that:

“...mega-events can cause the displacement of local populations because any factors attracting people to a place and promoting a place can cause intense competition for the housing that is already in the market”.[8]

1.11Q Shelter’s follow-up response noted evidence from other mega events driving up the cost of rent, the cost of homes and displacing people from their neighbourhoods.

Lack of consultation risks the success of the Games

1.12Community consultation has been near zero, with evidence from a number of key decision makers, including the head of the Brisbane Organising Committee for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, who have not met with affected community members.[9] This is fuelling ill-will in the community and will result in poor decision making. The complete inability of the Queensland Government to engage in meaningful consultation will impact negatively on the success of the 2032 Olympic Games.

1.13East Brisbane State School P&C outlined their own thorough consultation process and compared this with the poor approach to consultation taken by the Queensland Government.[10]

Promised economic benefits are not supported by evidence

1.14Q Shelter noted that the economic benefits from mega-events like the Olympics tend to be unfairly distributed.

1.15The Queensland Government are basing their claims of economic benefits on a KPMG Report titled “Preliminary economic, social and environmental analysis”. This report includes unreferenced and unjustified claims, many of which don’t seem to be based on any actual evidence, or data from other host cities.

1.16The Brisbane Organising Committee for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games was unable to reference any clear data or reports to justify their claims of economic benefits.

[Australian Kiwi]

2 hours ago, yoshi said:

Cripes, sounds like they've battered the Brisbane organisers from the posts you've made in the relevant threads - did the federal government sanction Brisbane's bid at all, are they supportive of it?! And where do they want athletics instead - a new stadium like Perth's? Something we haven't thought about yet? Sydney?! 

If we're being honest, the IOC would have pushed Sydney for 2032 if they were serious about a leaner and more efficient Games. 

[Sir Rols]

21 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

I also note you're promoting Yes 2023 (great - I'm voting yes too) BUT PLEASE if you are engaging in advocacy for this cause beyond these forums and elsewhere on the internet be mindful that the impacts of your demonstrated pigheadness could be devastating. It’s exactly that kind of lecturing and arrogance which could very well see the No vote prevail. 

 

It’s not just very well could but actually likely to fail now - which is a huge national tragedy. But you’re right, it’s preciously much of the hectoring and arrogance that I hate to say has come from the Yes side of the debate that has got a lot of people’s backs up.

[TorchbearerSydney]

As an indigenous Australian...can you just list some of the supposed 'hectoring' of the Yes side???? Sounds more like a few loud white folk desperately trying to portray themselves as 'victims', a common ploy of the right.

Referendums fail without bi-partisan support- full stop. This one will be no different. 

[Sir Rols]

14 minutes ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

As an indigenous Australian...can you just list some of the supposed 'hectoring' of the Yes side???? Sounds more like a few loud white folk desperately trying to portray themselves as 'victims', a common ploy of the right.

Referendums fail without bi-partisan support- full stop. This one will be no different. 

Any time someone throws out the racism card like Marcia Langton - and as a supporter of the Voice, I’m not saying what she said wasn’t untrue or unjustified. But it just gives rednecks ammunition and undecided justification to get their hackles up. I understand all too well the frustration of trying to convince recalcitrant people about what should be common sense, but not helpful when you’re trying to persuade, to instead bully or shame people.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Sir Rols

[FYI]

3 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Wow! That’s a pretty big turnaround from Mr…

Nice to see you address the message instead of trying to shoot down the messenger.

I don't think it has anything to do with that. It's more of a confirmation bias attitude. And whenever (official) information changes on any particular subject around here, they change along with it (more like what certain politicians do). As long as it falls, at least to them anyway, within the confines of the 'new-norm' agenda (despite the rest of us seeing it all along TBW, before the changing of any respective official info). 

[Sir Rols]

5 minutes ago, FYI said:

I don't think it has anything to do with that. It's more of a confirmation bias attitude. And whenever (official) information changes on any particular subject around here, they change along with it (more like what certain politicians do). As long as it falls, at least to them anyway, within the confines of the 'new-norm' agenda (despite the rest of us seeing it all along TBW, before the changing of any respective official info). 

Of course it’s his confirmation bias.

EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of the points, concerns and recommendations in the report have been brought up here, and every single time he’s dismissed them, distracted with pretty pics and dot point slides, and told us to stop flogging a dead horse, that it’s all been set and done and it’s going to go ahead come what may. It’s huge to see him finally express doubt, even if he persists in trying to discredit the report.

[AustralianFan]

5 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Personally, I don’t think it’s even so contingent on a change of Qld government. With Federal funds involved, it’s pretty close to Dead Man Walking now.

Don’t get too excited. - “vulnerable” does not equal ‘cancelled’.

I say it’s vulnerable only because of the recent public opinion polling swinging away from the current Queensland Government and there is an increased risk that an LNP government may not support a Redlands Whitewater venue.  I don’t know what their policy is.

The Redlands venue is at this time fully funded and planned to go ahead.

There is no evidence at this time yet that the venue plans are going to change, senate inquiry or no senate inquiry.  Senate inquiries are a lot of words and actions speak louder than words.  

Excerpt below from this year’s co-funding announcement from both the Australian Prime Minister and the Queensland Premier shows Redland Whitewater Centre is fully funded.

[AustralianFan]

5 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Some material for our resident TASS reporter to digest......

 

Some of the interesting recommendations to come out of the report: 

Recommendation 1 (re: 2026 Commonwealth Games)

The committee recommends that the Australian Government takes on a facilitation and coordination role in order to salvage the 2026 Commonwealth Games being held in Australia. Before the end of 2023, the Australian Government should:

1. establish an intergovernmental forum, through National Cabinet or a bespoke mechanism, bringing together representatives from all three levels of government, business associations and community groups, to examine options to salvage the Commonwealth Games;
2. direct the Departments of Health and Aged Care and Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts to produce low, medium and high funding options for the Australian Government that would enable the Commonwealth Games to be salvaged and hosted in 2026; and
3. subject to the above, and in coordination with any other relevant stakeholders, including Gold Coast City Council and other local governments, enter into discussions with Commonwealth Games Federation and Commonwealth Games Australia about prospects for hosting the Games, including a reduced or decentralised Games if necessary.

Recommendation 5 (re: 2032 Olympic Games cost of Gabba rebuild)

The committee recommends the Australian Government works with the Queensland Government, affected communities and Olympics Games organising bodies to urgently review the decision to host Athletics events at the Gabba stadium and the associated plans to demolish the East Brisbane State School and temporarily remove community access to Raymond Park. The review should consider the feasibility of alternative options, including using existing infrastructure, and work to find a solution that is acceptable to these communities.

Recommendation 7 (re: 2032 Olympic Game utilising 2000 Olympic venues to cut costs)

The committee recommends the Australian Government works through an intergovernmental forum, such as National Cabinet, to explore the most cost‑effective solution for hosting the canoe slalom events at the Brisbane 2032 Games. If it is feasible to host the events at the Penrith Whitewater Centre in New South Wales, including with refurbishments, this option should be prioritised over building a new facility.

 

 

Senate Inquiry - Dissenting Report tabled by Senator Allman-Payne

 

No justification for the Gabba redevelopment

1.1The inquiry has demonstrated that the demolition of the Gabba Stadium, at a cost of $2.7 billion, does not need to go ahead to ensure the success of the Olympic Games. This is based on:

Evidence given by the Australian Olympic Committee over the course of the inquiry that the Gabba rebuild is not required for the 2032 Olympic Games.[1]

Evidence from the City of the Gold Coast that Carrara Stadium could accommodate the athletics.[2]

1.2The Queensland Government is moving ahead with the Gabba redevelopment, which will require the closure of East Brisbane State School and clearing of Raymond Park, based on advice given by architecture firm Populous.[3]Is it not clear on what evidence or data Populous based this advice on.

1.3The Queensland Government have referenced the 2018 Stadiums Taskforce Report to justify the Gabba demolition and rebuild. However, the 2018 Stadiums Taskforce Report recommends against building new venues and suggests that the life of the Gabba could be extended with internal and external upgrades.[4]

1.4Athletics Australia also indicated that they would like to see legacy infrastructure, and that rather than a temporary venue, they would like to see investment in a venue where:

“In the lead-up to the games, our athletes get to use that facility and that, post the games, the sport of athletics gets to use the facilities”.[5]

Community opposition

1.5There is significant community opposition to the Gabba redevelopment. This opposition was clear based on evidence from the East Brisbane State School Parents and Citizens (P&C), Friends of Raymond Park, Brisbane Residents United and the West End Community Association.

 

1.6Brisbane Residents United noted:

We believe the proposal to spend $2.5 billion (likely $4 billion with the inevitable budget blowouts) on demolishing and rebuilding The Gabba stadium for the 2032 Olympic Games is a manifest misallocation and misuse of public monies.[6]

1.7This community opposition is a major liability to the Queensland Government that will negatively impact the success of the 2032 Olympic Games.

Health impacts of Gabba redevelopment

1.8The Gabba redevelopment will negatively impact the mental and physical health of surrounding residents. The Friends of Raymond Park representative noted that:

“The importance of residents' personal health and wellbeing does not appear to even be a consideration”.[7]

Negative housing impacts from the Games

1.9Olympics Games fuel housing unaffordability. This is clear from evidence provided by Q Shelter, West End Community Association and Brisbane Residents United.

1.10Q Shelter stated that:

“...mega-events can cause the displacement of local populations because any factors attracting people to a place and promoting a place can cause intense competition for the housing that is already in the market”.[8]

1.11Q Shelter’s follow-up response noted evidence from other mega events driving up the cost of rent, the cost of homes and displacing people from their neighbourhoods.

Lack of consultation risks the success of the Games

1.12Community consultation has been near zero, with evidence from a number of key decision makers, including the head of the Brisbane Organising Committee for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, who have not met with affected community members.[9] This is fuelling ill-will in the community and will result in poor decision making. The complete inability of the Queensland Government to engage in meaningful consultation will impact negatively on the success of the 2032 Olympic Games.

1.13East Brisbane State School P&C outlined their own thorough consultation process and compared this with the poor approach to consultation taken by the Queensland Government.[10]

Promised economic benefits are not supported by evidence

1.14Q Shelter noted that the economic benefits from mega-events like the Olympics tend to be unfairly distributed.

1.15The Queensland Government are basing their claims of economic benefits on a KPMG Report titled “Preliminary economic, social and environmental analysis”. This report includes unreferenced and unjustified claims, many of which don’t seem to be based on any actual evidence, or data from other host cities.

1.16The Brisbane Organising Committee for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games was unable to reference any clear data or reports to justify their claims of economic benefits.

A lot of words from yet another senate inquiry …..

 

[Australian Kiwi]

Wow - lol.

Two posts above are a case in point regarding the pigheadedness. 

[Sir Rols]

OMG! He’s back to the old tactic of spamming irrelevant pic/video posts to… i don’t know… I guess to try and drown out the dissenting voices. And he wonders why his credibility here is shot.

28 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

A lot of words from yet another senate inquiry …..

 

that actually carry more weight than another IOC press release or BOCOG talking points.

[FYI]

18 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

OMG! He’s back to the old tactic of spamming irrelevant pic/video posts to… i don’t know… I guess to try and drown out the dissenting voices. And he wonders why his credibility here is shot.

It's all part of their usual M.O. (just like a certain Angeleno from a few years back). Don't like/agree with what they see/hear/read around here? No problem! Just drown it out with more spamming, power points & new-norm mumbo-jumbo until they think they've gotten "control of the conversation" again. 

[AustralianFan]

Welcome to the Gabba ….… not

• nil female changing rooms
• opposition male AFL players rank the Gabba changing rooms as among the AFL’s worst
• no escalators in the stadium
• ’toddler size’ seats
• nil wifi connectivity 
• long climb up stairsto upper tiers, e.g. 54 steps up to the top tier from Gate 2 as an example
• no designated lifts for disabled or less mobile spectators, just freight lifts
• this old stadium’s wiring resulted in a blackout mid-game 24 March 2023, with visible flames in one of the old light towers
• surging crowds run the gauntlet of heavy traffic crossing the roadto get to this old stadium
• the nearest train station is currently a 20 minute walk away from the old Gabba

But things are looking up.  Construction of the new Gabba undergound train station is getting close to completion.

Once that’s done, they can and will knock down this dog of a stadium and build that better, inclusive, accessible, connected, comfy replacement for AFL and Cricket legacy use.  

Source: Credit: Brisbane Times

[Australian Kiwi]

1 hour ago, AustralianFan said:

Mitch Tambo performs in Gamilaraay language

Can see Mitch in the Brisbane 2032 Ceremonies at the Gabba.

 

Ahhhh I see. For you this is all about populism. Its about the flashy videos and jumping on a PR bandwagon.  Its not about wading into the nuance or considering the multiple truths or the complexity, its about the spin. For you its about seeing Aboriginal people as commodities that we can use for a 2032 branding exercise. The fact that you diminish the Voice debate down to youtube videos for the 2032 Olympics shows how truly glib you really are. 

I'm glad you're here in Australia - if you existed somewhere like Iran, China or Russia and got sucked into the party-line you'd be a very dangerous person with that mindset.

[yoshi]

10 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

 

Worst case, if it was abandoned, would be that athletics go to Carrara on the Gold Coast, and a creative solution is devised for the op[ening. But that’s a long way off in terms of possibilities.

If only there was a river  Sounds from that inquiry extract that the athletics people want a stadium of their own - a Budapest solution?

[Rob2012]

Normally, a host for 2032 would be having debates about its whitewater venue around about 2027. Have we got 4 more years of this?

 

 

[Australian Kiwi]

LOL well if that isn't the tackiest virtue signalling ever. 

A big (retrospective) critique of the Sydney 2000 ceremonies were that the climax was effectively colonisation. Not that your smooth brain has ever been one to pick up on nuance or low key racism. 

The voice and indigenous people are not props for your obsessive compulsion to hammer home bullshit on the Olympics. Get a life.