The Gabba

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Its also worth noting that Victoria 2026 and Brisbane 2032 are two examples of major events awarded to hosts without the rigour of a bid process. 2026 tanked because there was no due diligence and it had no time and money to resolve them. 

My concern with Brisbane is that it didn't go through the stress and interrogation of the standard bid process, and a lot of the "Bread not Circuses" type chatter is happening after the Games were awarded. 

That’s an excellent point too.

I concede there’s some great benefits to the “New Norm”. But there’s also some drawbacks, and one of my biggest concerns is lack of transparency. In the old days, a detailed Bid Book would be produced, with detailed plans and costings, and public support could be surveyed based on concrete proposals. This time, support was gauged on more ephemeral questions, and the IOC waved it through with a lot of things unsettled or optional - that Carrara would be acceptable, and that Penrith Whitewater Centre should be considered, for example. And now, after the fact, we’re getting - for example, most pertinent to this thread - the notion that “a Gabba rebuild is essential” etc. No wonder things are being scrutinised and questioned more.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sir Rols

[Australian Kiwi]

11 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

That’s an excellent point too.

I concede there’s some great benefits to the “New Norm”. But there’s also some drawbacks, and one of my biggest concerns is lack of transparency. In the old days, a detailed Bid Book would be produced, with detailed plans and coatings, and public support could be surveyed based on concrete proposals. This time, support was gauged on more ephemeral questions, and the IOC waved it through with a lot of things unsettled or optional - that Carrara would be acceptable, and that Penrith Whitewater Centre should be considered, for example. And now, after the fact, we’re getting - for example, most pertinent to this thread - the notion that “a Gabba rebuild is essential” etc. No wonder things are being scrutinised and questioned more.

Coming back to the topic of this thread - the Gabba and questions around its rebuild - its interesting that this very scenario has played out here in Australia before. This was the Stadium funding issue is the very reason Melbourne's hosting of the 1956 Olympics almost came undone. The original 1956 bid proposed a grand Olympic Park at the Flemington Showgrounds, before the stadium was moved to the MCG as a partial rebuild. 

Avery Brundage would be turning in his grave that Lausanne has let the Aussies pull that one again!

 

[Sir Rols]

21 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Coming back to the topic of this thread - the Gabba and questions around its rebuild - its interesting that this very scenario has played out here in Australia before. This was the Stadium funding issue is the very reason Melbourne's hosting of the 1956 Olympics almost came undone. The original 1956 bid proposed a grand Olympic Park at the Flemington Showgrounds, before the stadium was moved to the MCG as a partial rebuild. 

Avery Brundage would be turning in his grave that Lausanne has let the Aussies pull that one again!

 

And the funny thing is, that while our national mythology is that the 1956 games were an astounding success and the “friendly games”, if you look to more neutral histories, you’ll read about how, as you say, preparations were a shemozzle until Brundage warned them they were in danger of being stripped (the only such warning until Athens 2004 joined them) and forced their hand into moving to the MCG. Or how the “friendly games” were perceived overseas as quite Cold War tense with multiple boycotts from both sides of the bloc, the “blood in the pool” fracas etc.

In the end, they went off well, more positive than negative, but a lot of our national recalling of them is through rose tinted nostalgic nationalism.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sir Rols

[Australian Kiwi]

56 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

And the funny thing is, that while our national mythology is that the 1956 games were an astounding success and the “friendly games”, if you look to more neutral histories, you’ll read about how, as you say, preparations were a shemozzle until Brundage warned them they were in danger of being stripped (the only such warning until Athens 2004 joined them) and forced their hand into moving to the MCG. Or how the “friendly games” were perceived overseas as quite Cold War tense with multiple boycotts from both sides of the bloc, the “blood in the pool” fracas etc.

In the end, they went off well, more positive than negative, but a lot of our national recalling of them is through rose tinted nostalgic nationalism.

100%

As a Melburnian I'm proud of them as a part of our history but they were in a way the beginning of the Troubled Era for the Olympics that wouldn't really resolve until Barcelona. Still, some of those incidents like the organisational issues and the Cold War / Suez canal backdrop made them IMO one of the more interesting Olympics and one that helped bridge the Games from the vintage to the modern era. Its Aquatic Centre was revolutionary, and its subtle branding / street decorations by Richard Beck was a precursor to the rigorous branding you'd see from Mexico City onwards. It was an Olympic Games that ignited a change in Melbourne after they happened and for that they have an incredible legacy (compared to other cities that change for the Games, then stagnate - hello Montreal). 

 

[Australian Kiwi]

Also didn't Montreal get that "threat" of losing their Games due to the organisational issue?

[Sir Rols]

19 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Also didn't Montreal get that "threat" of losing their Games due to the organisational issue?

They never got round to finishing the stadium tower in time, but I don’t recall any threats of losing them.

20 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

As a Melburnian I'm proud of them as a part of our history but they were in a way the beginning of the Troubled Era for the Olympics that wouldn't really resolve until Barcelona.

 

And since at least Sochi, maybe even Beijing, we’ve been in one of those troubled Olympic eras again. And it’s very unclear when that might be resolved. Already Paris looks to perhaps being overshadowed?/blighted? by the Russia issue. Another reason not to prematurely and pre-emptively declare Brisbane a forgone success - who knows what thorn patch the Olympics might be mired in come 2032?

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sir Rols

[Australian Kiwi]

40 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

They never got round to finishing the stadium tower in time, but I don’t recall any threats of losing them.

And since at least Sochi, maybe even Beijing, we’ve been in one of those troubled Olympic eras again. And it’s very unclear when that might be resolved. Already Paris looks to perhaps being overshadowed?/blighted? by the Russia issue. Another reason not to prematurely and pre-emptively declare Brisbane a forgone success - who knows what thorn patch the Olympics might be mired in come 2032?

China.

[AustralianFan]

The Ageing Gabba

 

The endless gripes of a cantankerous Gabba traveller

On the brutal south-western ascent, a bon mot from somewhere far below: “Are we at base camp yet?” the man shouts. Chuckles from the schlepping masses. Too true!

Me, I can only grin. It is a 54-step climb to Gabba’s upper concourse, and I’m starting to pant.

54 Steps

The 54 step south-western ascent inside the Gabba’s gate 2.

At least we have our (relative) youth and health. A teenage girl hobbles behind us in a moon boot. Just ahead, an elderly couple are causing a bottleneck. There is no designated disability access here. Just the freight lifts.

We’ve come from the nearest train station – 20 minutes away. The incoming humanity at Stanley Street and Ipswich Road consumed the intersection and made traffic lights meaningless. Police tried to hurry people along, but there was nowhere to move.

There is limited parking for the average punter since the Brisbane City Council began policing its “Gabba traffic area” – curiously, about the same time as the stadium’s first rare NRL game this year.

Train services only run every half hour on weekend game days and are distant, so it is no wonder others opt for the chaos of the buses. Good luck to you, especially if you’ve brought kids.

But we’re nearly there now. A few steps to go. Once at “camp”, we’ll catch our breath and squeeze through the narrow, heaving concourse to our toddler-sized seats up another set of stairs.

Any breaking team changes? Don’t bother checking the news. There’s no connectivity.

Welcome to the Gabba. The only good thing about the place is that the Lions keep winning.

The stadium precinct will be rebuilt in time to host the 2032 Olympics. And not without controversy and genuine heartbreak. The build will force the historic East Brisbane State School to move.

There’s also the $2.7 billion cost, which may not have been so outrageous had the government not so amateurishly put it at $1 billion only a couple of years ago.

But Brisbane deserves a modern home for AFL and cricket.

There are currently no female change rooms. Opposition male AFL players rank the away change rooms among the competition’s worst. Brisbane has missed cricket Test matches because the ground has slipped down the rankings of “preferred venues”.

At the quarter-breaks in the football, blokes breeze through the toilets, while women usually have to choose between interminable lines and the restart.

There are more technical infrastructure issues, too. What Lions fan could forget the lights going out mid-game earlier this season?

Don’t let anyone tell you the Gabba only needs “a lick of paint”.

It seems even stadium management has given up on trying to keep certain elements of the game-day experience modern.

Food is subjective, but this cantankerous footy traveller puts the Gabba’s unimaginative 20th century fare at the bottom of the pile.

Is this where bakeries dump their stale buns?

Sport is unifying, inspiring. Fun! Everyone should be able to share this. The present stadium is exclusionary.

This assumes there’s any grub left. I sometimes wonder at half-times if those responsible for supply in our section remark to their colleagues in bewilderment that it always seems to get so busy halfway through the shift!

A new Gabba will have escalators and disability access.

The new version will seat 50,000 people – a meagre ambition, perhaps, leaving it mid-sized in the scale of Australian stadiums. But the atmosphere will be exponentially improved.

Its current capacity of 42,000 is misleading because the ground configurations accommodate only 37,000 for AFL and 34,000 for cricket.

As for transport, a pedestrian bridge will link an expanded concourse to the new Woolloongabba train station.

Team facilities will have direct access to pitches and practice wickets.

More broadly, the whole precinct will be “enlivened 24/7″ with new homes, retail and, potentially, art galleries and museums.

This is a good thing for a city on the move.

Last week’s Brisbane sitting of a federal inquiry into Australia’s preparedness to host the Olympics heard the stadium would be “end of life” by 2030.

If there is one problem with this assessment, it is that it supposes the Gabba is not already cooked.

Credit: Brisbane Times - 30 August 2023

—————————————————————————-

This article sums it up nicely.

[Rob2012]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:35 AM, TorchbearerSydney said:

Brisbane will pull off a successful Olympics from a sporting point of view. Looking a the bigger picture I doubt it will be memorable. But with Queenslanders like  Hanson, Katter, Palmer ad Dutton welcoming the World, what could go wrong?

You speak as if Queensland and Australia is the only place in the world with awful politicians. Most of those names elicit nothing more than a shrug from me, I don't know who they are and if they have any impact on the Games because of doing something stupid it'll be in some "and finally" story (unless they go the Full Rubiales).

I only know the name Katter because of that viral video about same-sex marriage.

You're worrying over nothing. I'd be more worried about who's in power now, organising everything. They're the ones who'll have a real impact, be it positive or negative.

[Australian Kiwi]

1 hour ago, Rob2012 said:

You speak as if Queensland and Australia is the only place in the world with awful politicians. Most of those names elicit nothing more than a shrug from me, I don't know who they are and if they have any impact on the Games because of doing something stupid it'll be in some "and finally" story (unless they go the Full Rubiales).

I only know the name Katter because of that viral video about same-sex marriage.

You're worrying over nothing. I'd be more worried about who's in power now, organising everything. They're the ones who'll have a real impact, be it positive or negative.

I think what he's getting at is that Queensland tends to be a bit of a hotpot for far right politics. Conservatives have always fared well there, and the current group of them have the Olympics in sight as an urban indulgence that takes money away from regional and rural communities. 

[FYI]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:01 AM, AustralianFan said:

The size of an Olympic city has  got nothing to do with the success of a Games.  Olympic success as a host is not on a sliding scale according to the size  of a city or it’s CBD 

If that's the case, why haven't cities like Tulsa, Hobart, Leipzig & Lille hosted the Olympics then? Cause they've all tried to. That's just too broad of a statement to be declaring it as some sort of fact. Brisbane as a smaller city, compared to recent summer hosts, was an exception rather than the norm. They had a very unique set of circumstances that landed them the 2032 Games. It's wasn't so much because they were smaller. It just happened to turn out that way. I very much doubt that for 2036 will see another smaller-scale city hosting the Summer Games. The IOC will want to return to the big parties they've grown so accustomed to, despite their rhetoric that says otherwise.

On 9/1/2023 at 11:01 AM, AustralianFan said:

The actual nitty gritty planning and organizing of the Games is what makes it a success.

While that's also true, you also need the right city as a partner to make that planning & organization a success. And usually that means a city that's already well prepared, or can at least more easily absorb the necessary expenditures of something as gargantuan as the Olympics, & that usually means larger cities. Cause no amount of great planning & organization would make up for the shortfalls if you don't have the right city to begin with. And considering the 2032 Games are still nearly nine years out, & from a smaller city, the verdict on that one is still way out there. 

[FYI]

14 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

China.

Wouldn't be a big surprise.

6 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

I think what he's getting at is that Queensland tends to be a bit of a hotpot for far right politics.

So in that sense, Queensland IS 'the Texas of Australia' then! 

[AustralianFan]

On 9/2/2023 at 2:09 AM, Sir Rols said:

You only have to look at our upcoming referendum - what should be a commonsense and uncontroversial enshrining of an Indigenous Voice to Parliament is quite possibly facing an embarrassing and tragic defeat because of the forces of division and extremism. Mainstream political parties and the “sensible centre” can’t be taken for granted any more, and Australia’s not immune. And neither are the Olympics.      

Fully agree. Related to this is that the Brisbane 2032 Organising Committee have just thrown their weight behind the Voice, which is fantastic.

https://x.com/brisbanetimes/status/1698476214460051509?s=61&t=96o1iYO58aQacuYk3j8Afg

 

[AustralianFan]

1 minute ago, AustralianFan said:

Fully agree. Related to this is that the Brisbane 2032 Organising Committee have just thrown their weight behind the Voice, which is fantastic.

https://x.com/brisbanetimes/status/1698476214460051509?s=61&t=96o1iYO58aQacuYk3j8Afg

 

Brisbane Olympics body throws its weight behind Voice’s Yes campaign

The Brisbane 2032 Olympic organising committee has joined other powerful sporting bodies in throwing its support behind the Yes campaign for an Indigenous Voice to parliament.

Credit: Brisbane Times - 4 September 2023

[Sir Rols]

I have to say, the official “Yes” advertisement is so stirring. I actually had tears in my eyes

The campaign really needed a rallying cry. This fits the bill perfectly. Let’s a hope it’s not too late!

[AustralianFan]

27 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I have to say, the official “Yes” advertisement is so stirring. I actually had tears in my eyes

The campaign really needed a rallying cry. This fits the bill perfectly. Let’s a hope it’s not too late!

It absolutely is.  Yes.

[FYI]

I was going to post this in the Brisbane 2032 thread, but considering the content of the last couple of pages of this thread, it seems to be more appropriate here. Plus, the article does make at least a mention of the Gabba. lol

‘Full steam ahead’ and no way out: how much can we trust cost estimates for the Brisbane Olympics?

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/22/commonwealth-games-2026-cancelled-brisbane-olympics-2032-cost-estimates-accurate

 

[Sir Rols]

3 hours ago, FYI said:

I was going to post this in the Brisbane 2032 thread, but considering the content of the last couple of pages of this thread, it seems to be more appropriate here. Plus, the article does make at least a mention of the Gabba. lol

I’d seen that article before, and while there’s much I agree on I’d decided against posting it because there were also some basic facts wrong in it - ie, that it won because no-one else was bidding (we know others were interested, but were either on covid hiatus, still getting their plans in order and assumed they had plenty of time or were just plain caught out by the rules suddenly changing in the middle of the game). In the end, I think it leans too far into the Nolympics propagandising.

But yes, it does make some good points. Like how there are potential political risks ahead. And how the “long runway” may be as much a curse as a blessing. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Sir Rols

[FYI]

Yeah, I read the part of no one else was interested in bidding, but figured that alone wasn't worth not posting it. Figured us here know better anyway. Only Olympic nerds, like us here on GB's (& other Olympic realms), know the true ins-&-outs of all Olympic city races. And technically speaking, the article wasn't necessarily wrong about that per-se, since there was no *official* bid process. It was the IOC's "new-norm reforms", where they can cherry pick whoever they want, whenever they want, & anoint them how they see fit. And that's exactly what they (Bach & Coates) did with Brisbane. "Interest" from others didn't matter to them (Bach & Coates) in this case.

And yes, the long lead time was a good point. Another good point I found was the big, fat black swan part. How preparing for the Olympics is such a gargantuan task (which is no real big secret around here though), but how backing out for any number of unforeseeable variables, because of how big the Olympic task at hand is, isn't necessarily all that easy to do (hence, the 'full steam ahead'). Where the "throwing good money over bad" comes in. Tokyo 2020ne comes quickly to mind here. Where cancelling the 2020 Olympics was the last thing the IOC wanted to do. Even postponing them surely sent them over the edge, since so much is at stake when hosting the Olympics.

While you may have found it too NOlympics in the end, I found it at least strikes a balance with the other side of the spectrum, the "all is rainbows & sunshine" lens attitude about 2032 like a certain you-know-who around here likes to post all the time about, (which lead to the last couple of pages of this thread). Much like certain Angelenos of the past have done around here with L.A. (2024) 2028 as well. 

[Sir Rols]

Well, the Senate Inquiry’s not fond of the Gabba for 20o32 athletics either.

Grom the interim report:

 

The committee recommends the Australian Government works with the Queensland Government, affected communities and Olympics Games organising bodies to urgently review the decision to host Athletics events at the Gabba stadium and the associated plans to demolish the East Brisbane State School and temporarily remove community access to Raymond Park. The review should consider the feasibility of alternative options, including using existing infrastructure, and work to find a solution that is acceptable to these communities.

Recommendation 6

4.94If the result of a review of the Gabba stadium decision still requires the demolition of the East Brisbane School, the Queensland Government should work with the local community to build a new school in closer proximity to the existing school than the proposed Coorparoo school.

[yoshi]

Cripes, sounds like they've battered the Brisbane organisers from the posts you've made in the relevant threads - did the federal government sanction Brisbane's bid at all, are they supportive of it?! And where do they want athletics instead - a new stadium like Perth's? Something we haven't thought about yet? Sydney?! 

[AustralianFan]

35 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Well, the Senate Inquiry’s not fond of the Gabba for 20o32 athletics either.

Grom the interim report:

 

The committee recommends the Australian Government works with the Queensland Government, affected communities and Olympics Games organising bodies to urgently review the decision to host Athletics events at the Gabba stadium and the associated plans to demolish the East Brisbane State School and temporarily remove community access to Raymond Park. The review should consider the feasibility of alternative options, including using existing infrastructure, and work to find a solution that is acceptable to these communities.

Recommendation 6

4.94If the result of a review of the Gabba stadium decision still requires the demolition of the East Brisbane School, the Queensland Government should work with the local community to build a new school in closer proximity to the existing school than the proposed Coorparoo school.

This impotent senate inquiry is going no where and the recommendations will modt likely be ignored.

Let’s be clear about that and no exaggerate it’s irrelevance and impotence.

It was put together by obviously politically motivated opposition politicians who are not in government and hate being an irrelevant opposition.

The Australian and Queensland Governments together are funding the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games and inked this co-funding deal in February in front of. the media.

As part of this deal, the Queensland State Government are fully funding the demolition of the ageing embarressing Gabba Stadium, the rebuild of a sparkling new, gender inclusive, accessible, connected stadium and the relocation of the school.

It’s a done deal.

So ignore the whinging from this nonsense senate inquiry led by disgruntled opposition politicians. 

[Sir Rols]

23 minutes ago, yoshi said:

Cripes, sounds like they've battered the Brisbane organisers from the posts you've made in the relevant threads - did the federal government sanction Brisbane's bid at all, are they supportive of it?! And where do they want athletics instead - a new stadium like Perth's? Something we haven't thought about yet? Sydney?! 

Thge Federal Government is solidly behind the games. Both Morrison and now Albanese have given their commitment to it. No worries there. 

The Feds aren’t party to the Gabba, though. They agreed that was solely in Queensland’s hands. And honestly, I don’t think it’s at risk… yet. Qld’s Premier Palaszczuk is totally committed to it. The only prob would be is if she and Labor lose the next state election… which current polls say is not unlikely. Even then, I doubt it would be scrubbed.

Worst case, if it was abandoned, would be that athletics go to Carrara on the Gold Coast, and a creative solution is devised for the op[ening. But that’s a long way off in terms of possibilities.

[Sir Rols]

4 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

This impotent senate inquiry is going no where and the recommendations will modt likely be ignored.

Let’s be clear about that and no exaggerate it’s irrelevance and impotence.

It was put together by obviously politically motivated opposition politicians who are not in government and hate being an irrelevant opposition.

The Australian and Queensland Governments together are funding the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games and inked this co-funding deal in February in front of. the media.

As part of this deal, the Queensland State Government are fully funding the demolition of the ageing embarressing Gabba Stadium, the rebuild of a sparkling new, gender inclusive, accessible, connected stadium and the relocation of the school.

It’s a done deal.

So ignore the whinging from this nonsense senate inquiry led by disgruntled opposition politicians. 

The inquiry was convened long before the Victoria 2026 fiasco- it was just extended to examine that - and like ALL Australian senate inquiries includes representatives from ALL major parties (and indeed is co-chaired by Labor).,

you can stick your fingers in your ears, scream whawwhawha, and bury your head in the sand all you want - it’s findings are on public record now and will fuel ongoing public debate.

[AustralianFan]

11 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

The inquiry was convened long before the Victoria 2026 fiasco- it was just extended to examine that - and like ALL Australian senate inquiries includes representatives from ALL major parties (and indeed is co-chaired by Labor).,

you can stick your fingers in your ears, scream whawwhawha, and bury your head in the sand all you want - it’s findings are on public record now and will fuel ongoing public debate.

Yes, but it’s not going anywhere.  It may or may not fuel ongoing debate on preparations for Brisbane 2032, that remains to be seen.  

I don’t think it will “fuel public debate” and will fade away like many senate inquries do, which have a habit of disappearing into the ether , never to be heard from again.