The Gabba

[Sir Rols]

Yes, that’s all fine. But it’s still just repeating what you’ve posted many times in this threads, and on the last few pages. Repetition is not a debate clincher. It’s annoying.

And, yes,  I agree with the stated benefits, and I think a lot of others here do as well and support the Gabba rebuild.

But if we’re to acknowledge the negatives of Carrara, it also behaves us to acknowledge the negatives of the Gabba. 

Apart from cost and consultation, the two main ones appear to be - the loss of Raymond Park to make way for an athletics warm-up/trading track, and the forced closure and relocation of East Brisbane State School.

In regards to Raymond Park, that can definitely be slated down to the Olympics rather than legacy AFL, Cricket and concert use. The equation is then is the loss of a popular Brisbane park then worth it for the Olympics? Personally, I’d put that in the eye of the beholder category.

As for the school - it really is a blow for the students and those in its catchment area. Again, do the needs of sport and entertainment outweigh the needs of the students? Is it worth sacrificing them for a greater good? Again, no easy answer.

All these were highlighted in the senate report.

As much as I support the Gabba rebuild, I do wonder if the project can’t be reconfigured to address these negatives. And, yes, I acknowledge to do so probably would come at a cost, and would depends on the costs to benefits ratio.

 

[AustralianFan]

4 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

When he admits to a Senate inquiry that the Gabba is not strictly essential to Brisbane 2032. Nice? Yes. Essential? No.

Organising a games is all about solving potential logistical and PR nightmares.

Again, I am NOT advocating a switch from the Gabba to Carrara. I’ve stated many times I consider it highly unlikely. But when a Senate Inquiry raises the possibility, it’s almost essential to discuss it, positives as well as negatives.

 

2 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Fair enough  @Sir Rols

When the Future Host Commission wrote in their 2032 Targeted Dialogue Report to “consider using Carrara for athletics”, the Queensland Government have indeed considered this option and decided, “yeah …Nah.”

.….and considering the Gabba has for all intents and purposes already reached the end of it’s useful life and legacy tenants AFL and Cricket and their thousands of fans need a more accessible, inclusive home.

Re the Gabba rebuild, this nonsense senate inquiry is literally going around in circles wasting money treading the same exploratory path and rabbit holes that the Brisbane organisers and the Queensland Government have already been down 2years ago.

Unless the senate inquiry politicians are magicians too, they will not come up with any other conclusion than the current Gabba was poorly designed to start with and is now a dog of a stadium with lots of expensive problems.

The Gabba has inherent electrical power issues which at times is not coping with AFL or Cricket let alone an Olympics, no spectator lifts, escalators, no female changerooms, field of play needs to be widened to fit an athletics track which will take out more seats, etc. 

The Gabba rebuild will remove all these problems and deliver to Brisbane and South East Queensland a modern accessible bigger stadium suitable for the legacy tenants of AFL and Cricket for decades to come woth an increased capacity of 50,000

It is a New Norm decision because if all these factors and the Stadium is not being built for the Olympics, its being built for legacy tenants of AFL and Cricket. This is entirely within New Norm as has been mentioned by another member here.

Ifa new Olympic specific Stadium was to be built elsewhere for Brisbane 2032 then it could easily fill a 100,000 stadium as Sydney 2000 did.  

But Brissie is not doing that.   It is instead firmly focussed on a delivering a new 50,000 connected, accessible, modern stadium in central Brisbane for AFL and Cricket.  

 

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Yes, that’s all fine. But it’s still just repeating what you’ve posted many times in this threads, and on the last few pages. Repetition is not a debate clincher. It’s annoying.

And, yes,  I agree with the stated benefits, and I think a lot of others here do as well and support the Gabba rebuild.

But if we’re to acknowledge the negatives of Carrara, it also behaves us to acknowledge the negatives of the Gabba. 

Apart from cost and consultation, the two main ones appear to be - the loss of Raymond Park to make way for an athletics warm-up/trading track, and the forced closure and relocation of East Brisbane State School.

In regards to Raymond Park, that can definitely be slated down to the Olympics rather than legacy AFL, Cricket and concert use. The equation is then is the loss of a popular Brisbane park then worth it for the Olympics? Personally, I’d put that in the eye of the beholder category.

As for the school - it really is a blow for the students and those in its catchment area. Again, do the needs of sport and entertainment outweigh the needs of the students? Is it worth sacrificing them for a greater good? Again, no easy answer.

All these were highlighted in the senate report.

As much as I support the Gabba rebuild, I do wonder if the project can’t be reconfigured to address these negatives. And, yes, I acknowledge to do so probably would come at a cost, and would depends on the costs to benefits ratio.

Yes it’s sad that the East Brisbane State School literally right next to the Gabba cannot stay where it currently is.  

I sincerely hope that the school can be moved brick-by-brick and preserving the building in another location that is accessble by the students.

My understanding is that the warm-track at Raymond Park will return to it’s original parkland state after the Games. It’s not a permanent change is how I’ve read it. 

[Bear]

The wiki page for the EBSS says that the student body is pretty much set to exceed capacity within the next few years, so wouldn't relocation be better regardless of what happens to the Gabba? I understand that the building itself is heritage listed, but if it won't be able to handle projected enrollment rates, then there has to be to be a compromise somewhere...

[Sir Rols]

21 minutes ago, Bear said:

The wiki page for the EBSS says that the student body is pretty much set to exceed capacity within the next few years, so wouldn't relocation be better regardless of what happens to the Gabba? I understand that the building itself is heritage listed, but if it won't be able to handle projected enrollment rates, then there has to be to be a compromise somewhere...

It’s also a matter that it’s the only school in its zone/catchment area.

From the Senate Report:

East Brisbane State School

4.12BRU submitted that it is concerned about plans to demolish the Woolloongabba Place Park—a heritage-listed former police station on Main St next to the Gabba—and is especially opposed to the plan to relocate the East Brisbane State School (EBSS). Along with concerns about losing the heritage value associated with the school, BRU decried the ‘loss of opportunity’ for children to walk to school, and the inevitable increase in traffic: 

East Brisbane, Woolloongabba and Kangaroo Point are areas of high density development encouraged by both state and local governments. This has naturally lead to a rapidly expanding need for school places for residents’ children. This area has heavy traffic congestion, being part of a major feeder routes across Brisbane. Adding to this congestion by moving the school outside the area and consequently creating additional traffics is counterproductive.[7]

4.13Representatives of the EBSS community explained that closing the EBSS would remove ‘the last remaining school in the entire East Brisbane, Kangaroo Point and Woolloongabba catchment area’. ProfessorDaniel Angus, Association Member of the EBSS Parents and Citizens Association Olympic Impact Group (EBSS PCA), observed that the 124-year-old school has ‘survived multiple major floods, two major pandemics and two world wars, but at this stage it seems it will not survive an Olympics’.[8]

4.14Professor Angus said the recent decision by the Queensland Government to relocate the school to Coorparoo is not supported by the community. Moving the school out of area would likely impact on the health and fitness of students, over 70 per cent of whom currently walk or ride to school, and reduce the workforce participation of women, who benefit from the school’s location near public transport:

The proposed Coorparoo school does not serve the educational nor greater needs of our community now or into the future. Our own survey … revealed that 93 per cent of 1,000-plus local residents want a school to remain within the current catchment area.[9]

4.15The announced location at Coorparoo was also noted to be around two kilometres from the existing school, and too far for students to walk. Clearly some students, depending on where they live, would face a longer journey.[10]MrAngus said this is particularly inappropriate as many residents live in apartments and use public transport. Locating the school outside the area would impact the environment, as more people would be forced to drive.[11]EBSS PCA submitted that parents are also concerned about the safety and quality of footpaths in the area, which are located right on roads with heavy traffic.[12]

[AustralianFan]

It’s on.

New Gabba Stadium:

Woolloongabba gets go-ahead for city-changing makeover

• State Legislation Passes for Priority Development Area (PDA)
• It will let the Queensland government this year put to tender the design of the new Gabba so that a proponent can be chosen and construction begin when Gabba Cross River Rail finishes in 2026.

“Place of Whirling Waters”

Woolloongabba, which First Australians described as a place of whirling waters to resolve disputes, will become Brisbane’s second gateway after state government legislation passed on Friday.

Formally, Queensland’s Planning Minister and Deputy Premier Steven Miles approved the Woolloongabba Cross River Rail Priority Development Area covering 106 hectares between South Bank and Woolloongabba.

In practical terms, this lays out the land use including:

• the underground train station,
• new school,
• new busway,
• new sports ground,
• affordable housing,
• pedestrian walkway connecting the Gabba to South Bank Parklands.

It also formalises three-year-old promises by the Queensland government that 50 per cent of the site between the new Gabba train station and the new Gabba sports will be green space.

It includes the new Brisbane Metro bus station at the Gabba, new open space at the Gabba and the potential for walks towards South Bank Parklands, which itself is being redesigned as part of green spine connecting to Roma Street Parklands.

What does it mean?

The new Priority Development Area enlarges the sections of Woolloongabba where the Queensland government will have the ability to masterplan before the 2032 Games.

It will let the Queensland government this year put to tender the design of the new Gabba so that a proponent can be chosen and construction begin when Gabba Cross River Rail finishes in 2026.

What happens now at the Gabba?

An interim land-use plan for the Gabba is in place for the next 12 months.

The Queensland government will put the design of the Gabba sports ground out for tender and decide exactly where to place the new Metro busway at the Gabba with Brisbane City Council.

Education Queensland and East Brisbane State School will continue negotiations to move students to a new school being built on Coorparoo Secondary College grounds.

Public consultation begins from April 2024 to allowing different views to be considered before a final Priority Development Area land use plan for Woolloongabba is finalised around September 2024.

Credit: Brisbane Times - 22 Sep 2023

[AustralianFan]

14 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

It includes the new Brisbane Metro bus station at the Gabba, new open space at the Gabba and the potential for walks towards South Bank Parklands, which itself is being redesigned as part of green spine connecting to Roma Street Parklands.

 

 

This was the placement of the Brisbane Metro station - Brisbane Times - 15 Nov 2022

However, since that report there is some discussion on skyscrapercity.com about possible realignment plans for the Brisbane Metro Station and busway being moved to an underground location adjacent to the new Gabba underground train station.

——————————-

The Brisbane Metro electric buses:

• 24 metres long
• 180 passengers
• visually resemble a tram or light rail vehicle
• have been dubbed the “Tesla of public transport”
• they already operate in a dozen European cities carrying 3 million passengers daily

Credit: Hess-ag.ch

[Australian Kiwi]

"Brisbane Metro" is such a silly, provincial name. Its a busway. 

Sydney Metro, is a Metro...

[AustralianFan]

54 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

"Brisbane Metro" is such a silly, provincial name. Its a busway. 

Sydney Metro, is a Metro...

Agree.  “Metro” is widely associated with turn up and go trains across many cities worldwide including Sydney as you said and Melbourne, plus many others.

[Australian Kiwi]

10 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Agree.  “Metro” is widely associated with turn up and go trains across many cities worldwide including Sydney as you said and Melbourne, plus many others.

Double confusing that the nearby Cross River Rail itself will be closer to the actual definition of a Metro when they are running it at capacity in 2032.