The Gabba

[Sir Rols]

Yes, that’s all fine. But it’s still just repeating what you’ve posted many times in this threads, and on the last few pages. Repetition is not a debate clincher. It’s annoying.

And, yes,  I agree with the stated benefits, and I think a lot of others here do as well and support the Gabba rebuild.

But if we’re to acknowledge the negatives of Carrara, it also behaves us to acknowledge the negatives of the Gabba. 

Apart from cost and consultation, the two main ones appear to be - the loss of Raymond Park to make way for an athletics warm-up/trading track, and the forced closure and relocation of East Brisbane State School.

In regards to Raymond Park, that can definitely be slated down to the Olympics rather than legacy AFL, Cricket and concert use. The equation is then is the loss of a popular Brisbane park then worth it for the Olympics? Personally, I’d put that in the eye of the beholder category.

As for the school - it really is a blow for the students and those in its catchment area. Again, do the needs of sport and entertainment outweigh the needs of the students? Is it worth sacrificing them for a greater good? Again, no easy answer.

All these were highlighted in the senate report.

As much as I support the Gabba rebuild, I do wonder if the project can’t be reconfigured to address these negatives. And, yes, I acknowledge to do so probably would come at a cost, and would depends on the costs to benefits ratio.

 

[AustralianFan]

4 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

When he admits to a Senate inquiry that the Gabba is not strictly essential to Brisbane 2032. Nice? Yes. Essential? No.

Organising a games is all about solving potential logistical and PR nightmares.

Again, I am NOT advocating a switch from the Gabba to Carrara. I’ve stated many times I consider it highly unlikely. But when a Senate Inquiry raises the possibility, it’s almost essential to discuss it, positives as well as negatives.

 

2 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Fair enough  @Sir Rols

When the Future Host Commission wrote in their 2032 Targeted Dialogue Report to “consider using Carrara for athletics”, the Queensland Government have indeed considered this option and decided, “yeah …Nah.”

.….and considering the Gabba has for all intents and purposes already reached the end of it’s useful life and legacy tenants AFL and Cricket and their thousands of fans need a more accessible, inclusive home.

Re the Gabba rebuild, this nonsense senate inquiry is literally going around in circles wasting money treading the same exploratory path and rabbit holes that the Brisbane organisers and the Queensland Government have already been down 2years ago.

Unless the senate inquiry politicians are magicians too, they will not come up with any other conclusion than the current Gabba was poorly designed to start with and is now a dog of a stadium with lots of expensive problems.

The Gabba has inherent electrical power issues which at times is not coping with AFL or Cricket let alone an Olympics, no spectator lifts, escalators, no female changerooms, field of play needs to be widened to fit an athletics track which will take out more seats, etc. 

The Gabba rebuild will remove all these problems and deliver to Brisbane and South East Queensland a modern accessible bigger stadium suitable for the legacy tenants of AFL and Cricket for decades to come woth an increased capacity of 50,000

It is a New Norm decision because if all these factors and the Stadium is not being built for the Olympics, its being built for legacy tenants of AFL and Cricket. This is entirely within New Norm as has been mentioned by another member here.

Ifa new Olympic specific Stadium was to be built elsewhere for Brisbane 2032 then it could easily fill a 100,000 stadium as Sydney 2000 did.  

But Brissie is not doing that.   It is instead firmly focussed on a delivering a new 50,000 connected, accessible, modern stadium in central Brisbane for AFL and Cricket.  

 

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Yes, that’s all fine. But it’s still just repeating what you’ve posted many times in this threads, and on the last few pages. Repetition is not a debate clincher. It’s annoying.

And, yes,  I agree with the stated benefits, and I think a lot of others here do as well and support the Gabba rebuild.

But if we’re to acknowledge the negatives of Carrara, it also behaves us to acknowledge the negatives of the Gabba. 

Apart from cost and consultation, the two main ones appear to be - the loss of Raymond Park to make way for an athletics warm-up/trading track, and the forced closure and relocation of East Brisbane State School.

In regards to Raymond Park, that can definitely be slated down to the Olympics rather than legacy AFL, Cricket and concert use. The equation is then is the loss of a popular Brisbane park then worth it for the Olympics? Personally, I’d put that in the eye of the beholder category.

As for the school - it really is a blow for the students and those in its catchment area. Again, do the needs of sport and entertainment outweigh the needs of the students? Is it worth sacrificing them for a greater good? Again, no easy answer.

All these were highlighted in the senate report.

As much as I support the Gabba rebuild, I do wonder if the project can’t be reconfigured to address these negatives. And, yes, I acknowledge to do so probably would come at a cost, and would depends on the costs to benefits ratio.

Yes it’s sad that the East Brisbane State School literally right next to the Gabba cannot stay where it currently is.  

I sincerely hope that the school can be moved brick-by-brick and preserving the building in another location that is accessble by the students.

My understanding is that the warm-track at Raymond Park will return to it’s original parkland state after the Games. It’s not a permanent change is how I’ve read it. 

[Bear]

The wiki page for the EBSS says that the student body is pretty much set to exceed capacity within the next few years, so wouldn't relocation be better regardless of what happens to the Gabba? I understand that the building itself is heritage listed, but if it won't be able to handle projected enrollment rates, then there has to be to be a compromise somewhere...

[Sir Rols]

21 minutes ago, Bear said:

The wiki page for the EBSS says that the student body is pretty much set to exceed capacity within the next few years, so wouldn't relocation be better regardless of what happens to the Gabba? I understand that the building itself is heritage listed, but if it won't be able to handle projected enrollment rates, then there has to be to be a compromise somewhere...

It’s also a matter that it’s the only school in its zone/catchment area.

From the Senate Report:

East Brisbane State School

4.12BRU submitted that it is concerned about plans to demolish the Woolloongabba Place Park—a heritage-listed former police station on Main St next to the Gabba—and is especially opposed to the plan to relocate the East Brisbane State School (EBSS). Along with concerns about losing the heritage value associated with the school, BRU decried the ‘loss of opportunity’ for children to walk to school, and the inevitable increase in traffic: 

East Brisbane, Woolloongabba and Kangaroo Point are areas of high density development encouraged by both state and local governments. This has naturally lead to a rapidly expanding need for school places for residents’ children. This area has heavy traffic congestion, being part of a major feeder routes across Brisbane. Adding to this congestion by moving the school outside the area and consequently creating additional traffics is counterproductive.[7]

4.13Representatives of the EBSS community explained that closing the EBSS would remove ‘the last remaining school in the entire East Brisbane, Kangaroo Point and Woolloongabba catchment area’. ProfessorDaniel Angus, Association Member of the EBSS Parents and Citizens Association Olympic Impact Group (EBSS PCA), observed that the 124-year-old school has ‘survived multiple major floods, two major pandemics and two world wars, but at this stage it seems it will not survive an Olympics’.[8]

4.14Professor Angus said the recent decision by the Queensland Government to relocate the school to Coorparoo is not supported by the community. Moving the school out of area would likely impact on the health and fitness of students, over 70 per cent of whom currently walk or ride to school, and reduce the workforce participation of women, who benefit from the school’s location near public transport:

The proposed Coorparoo school does not serve the educational nor greater needs of our community now or into the future. Our own survey … revealed that 93 per cent of 1,000-plus local residents want a school to remain within the current catchment area.[9]

4.15The announced location at Coorparoo was also noted to be around two kilometres from the existing school, and too far for students to walk. Clearly some students, depending on where they live, would face a longer journey.[10]MrAngus said this is particularly inappropriate as many residents live in apartments and use public transport. Locating the school outside the area would impact the environment, as more people would be forced to drive.[11]EBSS PCA submitted that parents are also concerned about the safety and quality of footpaths in the area, which are located right on roads with heavy traffic.[12]

[AustralianFan]

It’s on.

New Gabba Stadium:

Woolloongabba gets go-ahead for city-changing makeover

• State Legislation Passes for Priority Development Area (PDA)
• It will let the Queensland government this year put to tender the design of the new Gabba so that a proponent can be chosen and construction begin when Gabba Cross River Rail finishes in 2026.

“Place of Whirling Waters”

Woolloongabba, which First Australians described as a place of whirling waters to resolve disputes, will become Brisbane’s second gateway after state government legislation passed on Friday.

Formally, Queensland’s Planning Minister and Deputy Premier Steven Miles approved the Woolloongabba Cross River Rail Priority Development Area covering 106 hectares between South Bank and Woolloongabba.

In practical terms, this lays out the land use including:

• the underground train station,
• new school,
• new busway,
• new sports ground,
• affordable housing,
• pedestrian walkway connecting the Gabba to South Bank Parklands.

It also formalises three-year-old promises by the Queensland government that 50 per cent of the site between the new Gabba train station and the new Gabba sports will be green space.

It includes the new Brisbane Metro bus station at the Gabba, new open space at the Gabba and the potential for walks towards South Bank Parklands, which itself is being redesigned as part of green spine connecting to Roma Street Parklands.

What does it mean?

The new Priority Development Area enlarges the sections of Woolloongabba where the Queensland government will have the ability to masterplan before the 2032 Games.

It will let the Queensland government this year put to tender the design of the new Gabba so that a proponent can be chosen and construction begin when Gabba Cross River Rail finishes in 2026.

What happens now at the Gabba?

An interim land-use plan for the Gabba is in place for the next 12 months.

The Queensland government will put the design of the Gabba sports ground out for tender and decide exactly where to place the new Metro busway at the Gabba with Brisbane City Council.

Education Queensland and East Brisbane State School will continue negotiations to move students to a new school being built on Coorparoo Secondary College grounds.

Public consultation begins from April 2024 to allowing different views to be considered before a final Priority Development Area land use plan for Woolloongabba is finalised around September 2024.

Credit: Brisbane Times - 22 Sep 2023

[AustralianFan]

14 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

It includes the new Brisbane Metro bus station at the Gabba, new open space at the Gabba and the potential for walks towards South Bank Parklands, which itself is being redesigned as part of green spine connecting to Roma Street Parklands.

 

 

This was the placement of the Brisbane Metro station - Brisbane Times - 15 Nov 2022

However, since that report there is some discussion on skyscrapercity.com about possible realignment plans for the Brisbane Metro Station and busway being moved to an underground location adjacent to the new Gabba underground train station.

——————————-

The Brisbane Metro electric buses:

• 24 metres long
• 180 passengers
• visually resemble a tram or light rail vehicle
• have been dubbed the “Tesla of public transport”
• they already operate in a dozen European cities carrying 3 million passengers daily

Credit: Hess-ag.ch

[Australian Kiwi]

"Brisbane Metro" is such a silly, provincial name. Its a busway. 

Sydney Metro, is a Metro...

[AustralianFan]

54 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

"Brisbane Metro" is such a silly, provincial name. Its a busway. 

Sydney Metro, is a Metro...

Agree.  “Metro” is widely associated with turn up and go trains across many cities worldwide including Sydney as you said and Melbourne, plus many others.

[Australian Kiwi]

10 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Agree.  “Metro” is widely associated with turn up and go trains across many cities worldwide including Sydney as you said and Melbourne, plus many others.

Double confusing that the nearby Cross River Rail itself will be closer to the actual definition of a Metro when they are running it at capacity in 2032.

[AustralianFan]

The Gabba Stadium - Industry Briefing Virtual Experience

At 10am AEST, today, 7 December 2023, there will be this online event presumably to give information on the tender process re the new Gabba Olympic Stadium.

The event is being hosted by the Queensland Department of State Development, Infrastructure, Local Government and Planning and the Department of Energy and Public Works.

@Victorian @Tejas57 and any others interested.  Login details are below

“Welcome to The Gabba Stadium Industry Briefing virtual experience.”

“The event will start at 10:00am (AEST) on Thursday 7 December 2023 and will conclude at 12:00pm. Please ensure you are in the meeting room lobby by 9:55am to ensure an on time start. “

“Please note that due to the volume of attendees, the chat, video and microphone functions will be disabled.” 

To turn on live captions for the briefing, go to ‘More’, select ‘Language and Speech’ and ‘Turn on live captions’. 

“A reminder that this event will be recorded. If there are any issues accessing the link, please contact *****@*****.tld. “


Link: Click here to join the meeting
Meeting ID: 437 291 513 053
Passcode: aPwsUX

 

[Sir Rols]

 

Queensland premier won’t rule out scrapping $2.7bn Gabba rebuild as 2032 Olympic Games review launched

The review is due to report in March, and the Premier has committed to enact ALL recommendations.

[Australian Kiwi]

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

 

Queensland premier won’t rule out scrapping $2.7bn Gabba rebuild as 2032 Olympic Games review launched

The review is due to report in March, and the Premier has committed to enact ALL recommendations.

With Olympic spending and the increasing divisiveness of 2032 being one of the main reasons for AP's departure, it wouldn't surprise me that Miles would be keen to knock off the Gabba rebuild. 

What they MUST do is work very quickly to establish the viable alternative before hitting the 7 mark - otherwise they will start to encroach on squandering the bonus years. Except for Tokyo there aren't many Olympic hosts that have had so much uncertainty around key venues so far after winning their bid (its really only Melbourne and Montreal that come to mind).

[AustralianFan]

My bet is that the Gabba Rebuild will remain the preferred option at the end of the review due to it’s very central location, the train line underneath the stadium in advanced stages of construction and the fact that the Gabba is an ageing stadium with poor accessibility and deep seated electrical problems.  So importantly, the legacy tenants of AFL, Cricket, BBL, will benefit hugely from an improvement in the standard of facilities (like having female changerooms), as will spectators / disabled access with escalators, elevators, overall increase in capacity of the stadium from the current 37,000 on AFL days to 50,000.

I can see though the Brisbane Arena (swimming/water polo) which was to straddle above Roma Street Transport Interchange might be moved to different CBD location.

That’s my view anyway.

[AustralianFan]

On the other hand,  the Queensland Premier has also not ruled out going ahead with the Gabba rebuild.

[AustralianFan]

It’s worth reviewing this very telling report below on the failings of the current ageing embaressing Gabba.  The current Gabba is in a prime central location within walking distance of Southbank, CBD and other entertainment and hospitality options. 

But ……. (read on)

The endless gripes of a cantankerous Gabba traveller

On the brutal south-western ascent, a bon mot from somewhere far below: “Are we at base camp yet?” the man shouts. Chuckles from the schlepping masses. Too true!

Me, I can only grin. It is a 54-step climb to Gabba’s upper concourse, and I’m starting to pant.

54 Steps

At least we have our (relative) youth and health. A teenage girl hobbles behind us in a moon boot. Just ahead, an elderly couple are causing a bottleneck. There is no designated disability access here. Just the freight lifts.

Nearest Train Station

We’ve come from the nearest train station – 20 minutes away. The incoming humanity at Stanley Street and Ipswich Road consumed the intersection and made traffic lights meaningless. Police tried to hurry people along, but there was nowhere to move.

Very Limited Parking

There is limited parking for the average punter since the Brisbane City Council began policing its “Gabba traffic area” – curiously, about the same time as the stadium’s first rare NRL game this year.

Train services only run every half hour on weekend game days and are distant, so it is no wonder others opt for the chaos of the buses. Good luck to you, especially if you’ve brought kids.

Toddler Sized Spectator Seats

But we’re nearly there now. A few steps to go. Once at “camp”, we’ll catch our breath and squeeze through the narrow, heaving concourse to our toddler-sized seats up another set of stairs.

No Wifi Connectivity

Any breaking team changes? Don’t bother checking the news. There’s no connectivity.

Welcome to the Gabba. The only good thing about the place is that the Lions keep winning.

 

East Brisbane State School

The stadium precinct will be rebuilt in time to host the 2032 Olympics. And not without controversy and genuine heartbreak. The build will force the historic East Brisbane State School to move.

There’s also the $2.7 billion cost, which may not have been so outrageous had the government not so amateurishly put it at $1 billion only a couple of years ago.

No Female Changerooms

But Brisbane deserves a modern home for AFL and cricket.

There are currently no female change rooms. Opposition male AFL players rank the away change rooms among the competition’s worst. Brisbane has missed cricket Test matches because the ground has slipped down the rankings of “preferred venues”.

At the quarter-breaks in the football, blokes breeze through the toilets, while women usually have to choose between interminable lines and the restart.

Electrical Blackouts at the Ageing Gabba

There are more technical infrastructure issues, too. What Lions fan could forget the lights going out mid-game earlier this season?

Don’t let anyone tell you the Gabba only needs “a lick of paint”.

It seems even stadium management has given up on trying to keep certain elements of the game-day experience modern.

Is the Gabba where bakeries dump their stale buns?

Food is subjective, but this cantankerous footy traveller puts the Gabba’s unimaginative 20th century fare at the bottom of the pile.

This assumes there’s any grub left. I sometimes wonder at half-times if those responsible for supply in our section remark to their colleagues in bewilderment that it always seems to get so busy halfway through the shift!

Exclusionary Gabba

Sport is unifying, inspiring. Fun! Everyone should be able to share this. The present stadium is exclusionary.

A new Gabba will have escalators and disability access.

The new version will seat 50,000 people – a meagre ambition, perhaps, leaving it mid-sized in the scale of Australian stadiums. But the atmosphere will be exponentially improved.

Current Gabba Capacity: 37,000 AFL  and   34,000 Cricket

Its current capacity of 42,000 is misleading because the ground configurations accommodate only 37,000 for AFL and 34,000 for cricket.  The new Gabba will have a capacity of 50,000.

Public Transport - New Woolangabba Train Station

As for transport, a pedestrian bridge will link an expanded concourse to the new Woolloongabba train station.

Team facilities will have direct access to pitches and practice wickets.

More broadly, the whole precinct will be “enlivened 24/7″ with new homes, retail and, potentially, art galleries and museums.

This is a good thing for a city on the move.

Last week’s Brisbane sitting of a federal inquiry into Australia’s preparedness to host the Olympics heard the stadium would be “end of life” by 2030.

If there is one problem with this assessment, it is that it supposes the Gabba is not already cooked.

Credit: Brisbane Times

[Australian Kiwi]

That's a poorly written op-ed.

Many of those things are subjective requirements, and most (if not all) do not warrant a rebuild. Even stating the nearest railway station is "20 minutes away" is an example of how unintelligent it is - a rebuild wouldn't fix this, aside from the fact that a new underground station is being built nearby. 

[AustralianFan]

29 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Many of those things are subjective requirements, and most (if not all) do not warrant a rebuild. 

Capacity

• current AFL capacity is  37,000.
• rebuilt Gabba Olympic Stadium:  50,000

Mid-match Blackouts at the Gabba

24 March 3023 and 18 January 2019

• Extraordinary scenes as Lions v Demons Gabba clash suspended by mid-game blackout - one of the lightowers was in flames
• The real story behind disastrous BBL light farce

Escalators and Lifts

Where are the escalators and lifts at the current ageing Gabba to improve spectator accessibility?
 

No female changerooms

—————————————

>> Is this embarressment of a very central but ageing Gabba Stadium where the world welcomes the Olympics and then leaves it as is, outdated, for AFL and Cricket’s legacy tenants?

No.

Anyway, Iove the new Wollangabba train station under the Gabba.  

Hate the decrepit outdated stadium above it.

[Rob2012]

Hold on, surely we're talking a really small Olympic Stadium if they scrap the rebuild?

[AustralianFan]

2 hours ago, Rob2012 said:

Hold on, surely we're talking a really small Olympic Stadium if they scrap the rebuild?

No, they will most definitely not go for a smaller stadium than the current Gabba AFL 37,000 (AFL capacity).  That’s my take on it.

I think they cannot in the end go past a rebuild of the very central-Gabba-with-a-train station and lots of entertainment and hospitality options in the area.

AFL and Cricket still need a workable home and so I cant see them moving those two away from the Gabba.

Building a brand new bigger stadium (say ,at somehwere like Albion might be an option but likely more expensive.  Brisbane does not need the Gabba, Suncorp Stadium and a third brand new stadium.  The market isnt big enough to support three Brisbane Stadiums.  Albion also doesn’t have much in the way of entertanment and hospitality options.

Carrara is too far away and has no mass public transport to get there.

QSAC is nowhere near anywhere and also no train line to it.

I still think at the end of the review, they will find that a Gabba rebuild on the current site to 50,000 capacity is both necessary and the best option.  The Gabba Rebuild will fix all the current ageing Gabba problems and boost capacity for the legacy sports and of course, the Olympics.

[AustralianFan]

Sure is.   The Queensland State election is in October.

 

[Victorian]

On 1/20/2024 at 12:42 AM, AustralianFan said:

No, they will most definitely not go for a smaller stadium than the current Gabba AFL 37,000 (AFL capacity).  That’s my take on it.

I think they cannot in the end go past a rebuild of the very central-Gabba-with-a-train station and lots of entertainment and hospitality options in the area.

AFL and Cricket still need a workable home and so I cant see them moving those two away from the Gabba.

Building a brand new bigger stadium (say ,at somehwere like Albion might be an option but likely more expensive.  Brisbane does not need the Gabba, Suncorp Stadium and a third brand new stadium.  The market isnt big enough to support three Brisbane Stadiums.  Albion also doesn’t have much in the way of entertanment and hospitality options.

Carrara is too far away and has no mass public transport to get there.

QSAC is nowhere near anywhere and also no train line to it.

I still think at the end of the review, they will find that a Gabba rebuild on the current site to 50,000 capacity is both necessary and the best option.  The Gabba Rebuild will fix all the current ageing Gabba problems and boost capacity for the legacy sports and of course, the Olympics.

I agree with everything you say here. The Gabba is the best option for the Olympics main stadium which has now been strengthened by Cross River Rail however, The Gabba in it's current form is not suitable to host the Olympics in 2032 and add an extra eight years, the facilities at the Gabba would have reached it's end of life. There is no white elephant argument either as The Gabba would continue to host many Cricket and AFL matches each year and could argubably attract more events especially with a new Stadium. By 2030, Hobart will also have their new Macquarie Point Stadium too so Queensland don't want The Gabba falling further down the pecking order against new stadiums from Perth, updates to the Adelaide Oval, SCG/SFS and the mecca of the MCG.

[Australian Kiwi]

4 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

Sure is.   The Queensland State election is in October.

 

Its very amusing to see you concede this. 

You were black and blue in the face a year or so ago stating that all 2032 plans were "locked in" and totally above the impact of State politics. 

[AustralianFan]

1 hour ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Its very amusing to see you concede this. 

You were black and blue in the face a year or so ago stating that all 2032 plans were "locked in" and totally above the impact of State politics. 

That was before former Queensland Premier resigned and the new Premier Steven Miles recently announced a 60-day review of Olympic infrastructure headed up by a former politcian from the opposite party to that of the new Premier.

As I’ve mentioned in several posts since, this is all happening in the shadow of a looming Queensland State election this October.

To your other point, I’ve previously said that until we hear otherwise, we can only assume the Brisbane 2032 Masterplan will go ahead as planned.   The same still applies.  Until the Review makes recommendations in 60 or so days time and the Queensland Government decides which recommendations to accept, we simply do not know what venue plans will be affected, if any, including the Gabba Rebuild.

 

[AustralianFan]

3 hours ago, Victorian said:

I agree with everything you say here. The Gabba is the best option for the Olympics main stadium which has now been strengthened by Cross River Rail however, The Gabba in it's current form is not suitable to host the Olympics in 2032 and add an extra eight years, the facilities at the Gabba would have reached it's end of life. There is no white elephant argument either as The Gabba would continue to host many Cricket and AFL matches each year and could argubably attract more events especially with a new Stadium. By 2030, Hobart will also have their new Macquarie Point Stadium too so Queensland don't want The Gabba falling further down the pecking order against new stadiums from Perth, updates to the Adelaide Oval, SCG/SFS and the mecca of the MCG.

Yep.    I could be completely wrong but I’m betting the Review will circle back to the well connected (public transport) central Gabba Rebuild as the focal point of these Games and the legacy sports of AFL and Cricket.

[yoshi]

I know some posts would probably say it's what was planned all along but I can't help having a suspicion that this 60 day review is actually a process to create a full proposal of the Olympic plan, a 'white paper' to put to a referendum. I don't know what else they can do about a stadium beyond building a new one - although at what point does it become cheaper to build a railway line to Carrara rather than the current plan?