Of Flags and Anthems…

[Sir Rols]

Didn’t quite know where to put this, but it’s a very interesting essay from Inside The Games on the IOC’s attitudes over the years to natonal flags and anthems, and efforts at various stages by Brundage et al to try and dispense with them. I’m sure it’ll be of strong interest to students of Olympic history (@baron-pierreIV?).

Flags and anthems - an eternal debate

[baron-pierreIV]

Thanks, Sir Rols.  

#1 - Author, Philip Barker, is the new editor of the ISOH Journal.  So, have co-authored an article previously with him in the ISOH Journal and we have another one in the works for next edition of the Journal. 

#2 - I don't know what Brundage was thinking, but of course, that was before the likes of NBC infused the IOC the billion-dollar plasma on which it lives.  An Olympics without national flags and anthems would probably be the most COLORLESS, BORING thing ever.  It would be soooo CORPORATE (but even the logos of the Partners are not allowed on Olympic FOPs) that what would be the point of even having NOCs if they are going to remove flags and anthems?  Might as well also promulgate medal quotas per country -- depending on the population of the country.  Look at the Opening Ceremony of Moscow 1980 with all those Olympic flags.  Really quite a blah ceremony.  

But I do want to limit the size of the larger delegations for the Opening Ceremony March -- no more than 50 athletes for the larger countries, including the host (OK, 100 athletes for the host country).  

Even the so-called "neutral teams" like Refugee teams are quite silly.  Who takes them seriously?  I mean it's nice to give stateless athletes a "shell" to compete in but for what?  A fictional state like Wakanda or Brigadoon or Lilliput?   Quite bizarre really. 

Also, removing flags and anthems would, as the article states, also REMOVE strong potential penalties for errant nations like Russia, Belarus and Iran now.  Politics CANNOT be removed from international sport.  I wish people would get that into their heads and bloodstream.  Ostracizing a country (and its presence and symbols) is really quite a good deterrent for unacceptable behavior in the family of nations.  It may not solve the problem, but as in Russia's case, it takes a toll on their youth who want to show that they are among the world's best.  But if you take away that platform, then they should be thinking twice about their actions which unjustly impact other nations who adhere to a code of intra-state conduct and civility.  

Actually, Rols, here's a better article on the participation of Vatican City / the Holy See in the Mediterranean Games.  

Vatican City primed for debut at Mediterranean Games - Infobae  

That should be a good counter vs. the idea of castrating the Olympic Games of all its nationalistic shades and overtones. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by baron-pierreIV

[Comped]

Honestly? Terrible idea - and no chance it would happen today. Too much money in the flag-based merch and coverage,

[baron-pierreIV]

Here, watch the medal Ceremony of the recently concluded Figure Skating (Ice Dance) competition at Lake Placid.  It's really just a WTF moment?  Instead of hearing the stirring LA MARSEILLAISE, you get the blah GAUDEAMUS IGITUR.  I suppose it could be worse but something is just wrong with the moment by taking away the anthems.  The athletes skate for King, country and themselves -- not some abstract, distant piece of music. 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by baron-pierreIV

[Sir Rols]

Okay, firstly, for the record, I’m totally in agreement that removing flags, anthems and all the national aspects of the games would destroy a lot of the Olympics appeal and flavour. It would be a watered-down, “beige” games (like the Universiades).

But…

That said, to play Devil’s Advocate, eliminating anthems and flags would basically be the solution to all those who decry politics in the games, and want to disassociate the notions of politics and sports. Having national entities and symbols really bakes politics into the very fabric of the games and means the two can’t be divorced. If they were really serious about the event being just for the athletes and bringing the youth of the world together to compete together in friendship, minimising national rivalries would be the first lace to start. 

Anyway, removing national flags, anthems and teams - and having the athletes compete for themselves rather than country  - might work for individual sports, but what about team events? Would we see clubs competing instead?  Would we want to see Man U versus Boca Juniors, or LA Dodgers versus Yomiuri Giants, competing for gold medals?

Like I said, I don’t like the idea of dispensing with the national trappings, but there is an argument for it.

2 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Here, watch the medal Ceremony of the recently concluded Figure Skating (Ice Dance) competition at Lake Placid.  It's really just a WTF moment?  Instead of hearing the stirring LA MARSEILLAISE, you get the blah GAUDEAMUS IGITUR.  I suppose it could be worse but something is just wrong with the moment by taking away the anthems.  The athletes skate for King, country and themselves -- not some abstract, distant piece of music. 

 Ah, Gaudeamus Igitur… on of only two songs I know in Latin. We used to give our music teacher hell by deliberately mangling the pronunciations as we sang it in school assembly.

[Sir Rols]

The important questions, however, are: How far part should the flagpoles be, and should the anthems be sung by choirs?