Quaker2001 Posted March 7, 2024 Report Posted March 7, 2024 4 hours ago, Rob2012 said: Is this really what the IOC is doing? I assume they're also going arrange asylum/witness protection for such athletes after the Games? Making athletes choose between their nation and their career - when their nation is a brutal fascist dictatorship with a history of poisoning detractors abroad - is fucking appalling and a huge abrogation of the IOC's most basic responsibility, athlete safety. All because Bach and co can't make a decision. This is somehow even worse than just letting Russia compete. I mean, even if Russia pulls all its athletes, by that stage will their authorities know who's co-operated with the IOC and condemned the war? Or is the IOC hoping they'll all be too scared and the problem will just go away nice and conveniently? 2 hours ago, Rob2012 said: If the IOC is making public (as they are) that any Russians competing are only doing so because they've condemned the war, it doesn't matter if the athlete in question has said anything publicly. Just their presence would be enough to condemn them. I'm sure that's how anyone in the Putin camp will view it, that by simply competing in the Olympics, you're going against the interests of Russia. Which is great because it twists Putin into a pretzel over wanting to push back against Bach and company, but at the same time like you said, it may turn some of these athletes - particularly the lesser known ones (i.e. not the tennis players) - into pariahs and I don't want to think about how Putin may want to see retribution. And as the old story goes, it's more poor attempts by the IOC at diplomacy. As much as this is a hot button issue now, I have a feeling it won't be a primary narrative come games time. But this being the IOC, and since I mentioned tennis, it does beg the question.. what ever happened to Peng Shaui? Because I don't think we can take Bach's word for it. 1 Quote
Quaker2001 Posted March 7, 2024 Report Posted March 7, 2024 23 minutes ago, krow said: bach falls on his sword for these "neutral athletes" that both 1) dope and 2) support putin openly, then has the nerve to tell the press about how shocked and betrayed he feels...but that he's happy to welcome even more neutral athletes for paris. you'd have to be one hell of a masochist to keep playing this game. https://www.usnews.com/news/sports/articles/2024-03-06/israels-olympic-status-not-in-question-says-ioc-president-bach-amid-frustration-with-russia Very typical of their actions. They want to have it both ways and then try and pretend they didn't create their own mess. This is the same organization that tried to publicly shame Ukraine for threatening to boycott. Again, I don't think we'll be talking about this topic that much come July 27th after the Opening Ceremony, but I hope that's not wishful thinking on my part. You should see some of the NAFO folks I'm interacting with on Twitter. So there will certainly be voices out there who think this entire Olympics is nothing more than Russia Russia Russia 1 Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 11, 2024 Report Posted March 11, 2024 Paris 2024 opening ceremony: IOC to discuss Russia and Belarus on 19 March Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 11, 2024 Report Posted March 11, 2024 Paris 2024: Russian tennis players not to participate despite suspension lifted Quote
StefanMUC Posted March 11, 2024 Report Posted March 11, 2024 6 minutes ago, Sir Rols said: Paris 2024: Russian tennis players not to participate despite suspension lifted Oh dear. Not so much the fact reported, but the way these articles are written really shows how much downhill that site has gone after it was sold. That's really just fanboy journalism using some agency reporting. Maybe better not to link it anymore here and give that site a push by views. 1 Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 11, 2024 Report Posted March 11, 2024 (edited) 8 minutes ago, StefanMUC said: Oh dear. Not so much the fact reported, but the way these articles are written really shows how much downhill that site has gone after it was sold. That's really just fanboy journalism using some agency reporting. Maybe better not to link it anymore here and give that site a push by views. Yeah. I don’t know why they don’t just use an AI too write their stuff - it’d be cheaper and have better grammar and structure. I have in the past, when I’ve seen a newsworthy item there, gone to look for it on other sources and then posted that, but was a bit rushed this morning. One of those increasingly rare days nowadays they actually had a few items worth noting. Edited March 11, 2024 by Sir Rols Quote
Quaker2001 Posted March 11, 2024 Report Posted March 11, 2024 29 minutes ago, Sir Rols said: Yeah. I don’t know why they don’t just use an AI too write their stuff - it’d be cheaper and have better grammar and structure. I have in the past, when I’ve seen a newsworthy item there, gone to look for it on other sources and then posted that, but was a bit rushed this morning. One of those increasingly rare days nowadays they actually had a few items worth noting. My first instinct here was to go to Twitter to see if anyone else is talking about it. And so far, no one is. Like you, I'll wait to see additional confirmation before we take this article at its word. At its somewhat confusing collection of words Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 12, 2024 Report Posted March 12, 2024 ‘Deeply sceptical and worried’: Wada wary of Russia’s anti-doping practices Quote
StefanMUC Posted March 13, 2024 Report Posted March 13, 2024 There’s no doping in Russia. Just Grandpa Valiyev serving drinks to athletes. 2 Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 13, 2024 Report Posted March 13, 2024 4 minutes ago, StefanMUC said: There’s no doping in Russia. Just Grandpa Valiyev serving drinks to athletes. Don’t forget to try his Strawberry Romanoff! 1 Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 13, 2024 Report Posted March 13, 2024 So a bit of huffing puffing from both sides, no doubt in preparation for next week’s IOC EB final decision. Fist, the Russkis aren’t gonna make it easy Paris 2024 Olympics: Russia should not boycott, says its sports minister Meanwhile Hidalgo’s playing tough Paris mayor wants Russian athletes banned from Olympics Quote
FYI Posted March 13, 2024 Report Posted March 13, 2024 As much as I hate to say this, if the Olympics are really "above politics", then the mayor shouldn't really be saying anything. Let the IOC & all the other relevant parties sort this mess out. 1 Quote
Quaker2001 Posted March 14, 2024 Report Posted March 14, 2024 4 hours ago, FYI said: As much as I hate to say this, if the Olympics are really "above politics", then the mayor shouldn't really be saying anything. Let the IOC & all the other relevant parties sort this mess out. I'm not against local politicians holding an opinion, but I agree that it's the IOC's party and they get to decide who is invited, even if they don't always make the right decision. Because if you give politicians the power, stuff like this could happen. This is obviously going to go nowhere, but again, makes me concerned when someone is advocating for the exclusion of a country 1 Quote
FYI Posted March 14, 2024 Report Posted March 14, 2024 ^And she is NOT even from France! She should definitely keep her mouth shut. And of course, no surprise there what party she is from. Why don't we just "ban" every country then. There, problem solved. Quote
Guilga Posted March 14, 2024 Report Posted March 14, 2024 11 hours ago, FYI said: ^And she is NOT even from France! She should definitely keep her mouth shut. And of course, no surprise there what party she is from. Why don't we just "ban" every country then. There, problem solved. If you do a full morality test for addimitance, i feel only a handful if any of the olympic powerhouses would be allowed to take part. This would make the medal table run more exciting, though. 1 Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 17, 2024 Report Posted March 17, 2024 There may be just 40 Russian athletes at Paris 2024, claims IOC vice-president Quote
Durban Sandshark Posted March 17, 2024 Report Posted March 17, 2024 Guess it'll be like Yugoslavia--then Serbia, Montenegro, and Macedonia--back in 1992 with Barcelona's Summer Olympics looming at the height of that nation's assaults on Bosnia and Croatia. Quote
sebastien1214 Posted March 17, 2024 Report Posted March 17, 2024 I think that in the end, what will happen is that the IOC will confirm its principle of "neutral athletes", which will effectively reduce to only a few dozen eligible athletes, and that to avoid being humiliated Putin will decide on the boycott. In a certain way both parties will save their honor: the IOC will be able to say "we tried an intermediate solution, it is not our fault if there are no Russians" and Putin will be able to say "we are not going to be humiliated by accepting these IOC conditions." Either way, I find this story about neutral athletes completely stupid. The IOC demands that Russian athletes not support the war, but how can they be 100% sure that all eligible Russian athletes are opposed to this war? If a Russian athlete wins a medal and starts making the Z sign on the podium, what a monumental humiliation that would be for the IOC. This story should have been resolved since February 24, 2022 by prohibiting any presence of Russians (& Belarusians) as long as the war is in progress. And if the IOC needed an justification, they only had to say “since you broke the Olympic truce*, then we are punishing you”. And again, they wouldn't even have needed to come up with a justification because it seems so obvious. (*indeed, it happened 4 days after the end of the Beijing 2022 Olympic Games. But it was also before the start of the Paralympic Games; they can imagine an “extensive” version of the Olympic truce which also includes the Paralympic games) 2 Quote
Guilga Posted March 17, 2024 Report Posted March 17, 2024 30 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said: (*indeed, it happened 4 days after the end of the Beijing 2022 Olympic Games. But it was also before the start of the Paralympic Games; they can imagine an “extensive” version of the Olympic truce which also includes the Paralympic games) The truce actually includes the period of the Paralympics and the one between it and the Olympics already, so the extensive thing isn't really needed. 1 Quote
sebastien1214 Posted March 17, 2024 Report Posted March 17, 2024 2 minutes ago, Guilga said: The truce actually includes the period of the Paralympics and the one between it and the Olympics already, so the extensive thing isn't really needed. Oh, I didn't know. I thought the truce was restricted to the Olympics. 1 Quote
Quaker2001 Posted March 18, 2024 Report Posted March 18, 2024 21 hours ago, sebastien1214 said: I think that in the end, what will happen is that the IOC will confirm its principle of "neutral athletes", which will effectively reduce to only a few dozen eligible athletes, and that to avoid being humiliated Putin will decide on the boycott. In a certain way both parties will save their honor: the IOC will be able to say "we tried an intermediate solution, it is not our fault if there are no Russians" and Putin will be able to say "we are not going to be humiliated by accepting these IOC conditions." Either way, I find this story about neutral athletes completely stupid. The IOC demands that Russian athletes not support the war, but how can they be 100% sure that all eligible Russian athletes are opposed to this war? If a Russian athlete wins a medal and starts making the Z sign on the podium, what a monumental humiliation that would be for the IOC. This story should have been resolved since February 24, 2022 by prohibiting any presence of Russians (& Belarusians) as long as the war is in progress. And if the IOC needed an justification, they only had to say “since you broke the Olympic truce*, then we are punishing you”. And again, they wouldn't even have needed to come up with a justification because it seems so obvious. (*indeed, it happened 4 days after the end of the Beijing 2022 Olympic Games. But it was also before the start of the Paralympic Games; they can imagine an “extensive” version of the Olympic truce which also includes the Paralympic games) I don't think the IOC needs to do anything here. ROC had 335 athletes in Tokyo, so they'll likely have at most 1/10 of that number in Paris. Neutral athletes could have taken more quota spots, but several of their sports are saying they don't want them. That's exactly what the IOC wants. They set the rules and Russia made the decision to withhold athletes. And who knows how many more might drop out of the mix before July. The end result is that Russia has reduced their participation on their own and even if they claim it's a direct result of IOC policy, the IOC can deflect and say it was Russia's decision. If the end result is some athletes go to the Olympics and openly support the war afterwards, then the IOC's narrative about being cautious will have been validated and it will be even easier to further sanction them for 2026. The flip side of all this is the tension that has been created, so if there's any sort of incident in Paris, that will be squarely on the IOC. If Paris is incident-free with regard to Russian participation, it'll be a big win for them Quote
Guilga Posted March 19, 2024 Report Posted March 19, 2024 https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ain-eligibility-review-panel-established-by-ioc-eb-paris-games-time-protocol-elements-agreed-on Right now! They released the rules for our neutrals; Quote AIN Eligibility Review Panel established by IOC EB – Paris Games-time protocol elements agreed on The Executive Board (EB) of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has today agreed on a number of concrete implementation aspects for the participation of Individual Neutral Athletes (AINs) at the Olympic Games Paris 2024. AINs are athletes with a Russian or Belarusian passport who have qualified through the existing qualification systems of the International Federations (IFs) on the field of play. The implementation follows the strict eligibility conditions which were put in place for AINs by the IOC EB on 8 December 2023. 5 min read | Published on 19 March 2024 Press Release IOC News IOC Executive Board Paris 2024 olympic-flag-featured Today, the IOC EB received an update that there are currently 12 AINs with a Russian passport and seven AINs with a Belarusian passport who have qualified for Paris 2024, out of the 6,000 quota places that have already been awarded for the Olympic Games Paris 2024. The experts currently project that, under the most likely scenario, 36 AINs with a Russian passport and 22 AINs with a Belarusian passport will qualify for the Olympic Games Paris 2024. The maximum number, which is unlikely to be reached, would be 54 and 28 respectively. These numbers have to be compared to the 330 athletes from the Russian Olympic Committee who took part in Tokyo, and the 104 athletes from the National Olympic Committee (NOC) of Belarus. It is important to note that these estimates for Paris 2024 do not take into account the IOC eligibility review process, which will determine final participation. Today, the IOC EB decided the following: 1. To establish the Individual Neutral Athlete Eligibility Review Panel (AINERP) to evaluate the eligibility of each athlete with a Russian or Belarusian passport who obtains, or who could obtain, a qualification place for the Olympic Games Paris 2024, and that of their support personnel. The Panel will be composed of three members: Ms Nicole Hoevertsz, IOC Vice-President, Chair of the Panel Mr Pau Gasol, IOC Ethics Commission representative Mr Seung Min Ryu, IOC Athletes’ Commission representative The work of the AINERP will be supported by Mrs Paquerette Girard Zappelli, IOC Chief Ethics and Compliance Officer, who will act as the Secretary of the AINERP. The Panel will be guided in its decisions by the “Principles Relating to the Implementation of the Participation for Individual Neutral Athletes and their Support Personnel with a Russian or Belarusian Passport at the Olympic Games Paris 2024”. 2. To delegate to the AINERP and the IOC administration the authority to invite an Individual Neutral Athlete, and their support personnel, to participate in the Olympic Games Paris 2024. Once the athletes’ invitations have been sent, the IOC will publish the list of the AINs and their support personnel who have been invited to participate in the Olympic Games Paris 2024. 3. The AINERP to monitor the conduct of, and respect for the Principles of Participation by, all AINs and support personnel who are deemed eligible and who participate in the Olympic Games Paris 2024, including on their return after the Games. 4. The AINERP to bring any matter to the IOC Disciplinary Commission for any measures or sanctions to be applied should the conduct of any AIN or their support personnel be considered contrary to the Olympic Charter, the Paris 2024 Conditions of Participation or the Principles of Participation. The IOC EB also discussed and decided on a number of protocol elements with regard to the participation of AINs in Paris: This is the flag of the AINs and this is the anthem. The anthem has no lyrics and has been produced solely for this purpose. Medals won by the AINs will not be displayed in the NOC medal table. In addition, the ceremonies were discussed by the IOC EB. The following principles were established: AINs will not participate in the parade of delegations (teams) during the Opening Ceremony, since they are individual athletes. But an opportunity will be provided for them to experience the event. This is the same scenario that was used for the Independent Olympic Participants at the Olympic Games Barcelona 1992 (from former Yugoslavia). The decision regarding the participation of AINs in the Closing Ceremony will be taken at a later stage, taking into consideration that it is not teams that enter the Closing Ceremony, but all athletes jointly together. During the victory ceremonies, the AIN flag will be flown and the AIN anthem will be played. As a reminder, the strict eligibility conditions for Individual Neutral Athletes at Paris 2024, established by the IOC EB in December, are the same conditions under which the athletes qualified, namely: 1. Qualified athletes with a Russian or Belarusian passport will be entered as, and compete as, Individual Neutral Athletes (“AINs”). 2. Teams of athletes with a Russian or Belarusian passport will not be considered. 3. Athletes who actively support the war will not be eligible to be entered or to compete. Support personnel who actively support the war will not be entered. 4. Athletes who are contracted to the Russian or Belarusian military or national security agencies will not be eligible to be entered or to compete. Support personnel who are contracted to the Russian or Belarusian military or national security agencies will not be entered. 5. Any such Individual Neutral Athlete, like all the other participating athletes, will have to meet all anti-doping requirements applicable to them in the lead-up to and at the Olympic Games Paris 2024, and particularly those set out in the anti-doping rules of the IFs. 6. The sanctions against those responsible for the war, the Russian and Belarusian states and governments, remain in place for the Olympic Games Paris 2024. This means, in particular, that: No flag, anthem, colours or any other identifications whatsoever of Russia or Belarus will be displayed at the Olympic Games Paris 2024 in any official venue or any official function. No Russian or Belarusian government or state officials will be invited to or accredited for the Olympic Games Paris 2024. Like all the other athletes, AINs will have to sign the Conditions of Participation applicable for Paris 2024. This contains the commitment to respect the Olympic Charter, including “the peace mission of the Olympic Movement”. Please find an excerpt from the new form here. I find notable that Russians and Belarusians wont be in the Seine parade at the opening, and they confirmed that this is an equivalent situation to those of 1992 former Yugoslavia. Fair enough, i guess. (Also, they also provisionally lifted Guatemala suspension, so the the only neutrals will be them.) Quote
StefanMUC Posted March 19, 2024 Report Posted March 19, 2024 Point 5 of the eligibilty conditions might be a tricky one as there surely hasn‘t been any independent doping testing done in both countries for the past two years and the athletes were not much outside either I guess. Quote
Guilga Posted March 19, 2024 Report Posted March 19, 2024 1 hour ago, StefanMUC said: Point 5 of the eligibilty conditions might be a tricky one as there surely hasn‘t been any independent doping testing done in both countries for the past two years and the athletes were not much outside either I guess. It actually might be that they somehow managed these neutrals to tests, because we have words of Public Affairs director of IOC on this; they count currently 12 Russians and 7 Belarusians, with a expected participation of 36 for the former and 22 for the latter. Very much tiny compared to Russian Premium Neutrality days, and we can also assume those are clean as well. However, you have a good point of making that question, are they sneaking in dopping tests in secret locations or something? As a side note, the IOC also made up an anthem and flag for them; When brazilian media pick on this flag, our people are going to meme the hell out of it, i'm sure! "Ain" can also mean a silly onomatopea for pain. Quote
Guilga Posted March 19, 2024 Report Posted March 19, 2024 Also, something i saw just now: (sorry for the double post, bu this is important) HOLY MOLY, You can participate, but you doesn't count... Y'know, is this better or worse than just being banned? Quote
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