Quaker2001 Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 6 hours ago, Bear said: He isn't wrong at all about this Didn't say he was, but that's why I asked the question "What's the alternative?" What do you suppose would happen if the West didn't support Israel? There would be no Israel. Maybe that's an acceptable outcome to you, but forgive me if I'm not okay with that. 6 hours ago, Bear said: Violence in Gaza has existed long before October 7. We all know that. And yet it got exponentially worse after October 7th. Why do we suppose that is? I wonder what set off the powder keg that led us to where we are today. 6 hours ago, Bear said: Okay, let's talk about Hamas. The last elections in Gaza took place in 2006. There have been no elections since - this was 18 years ago. Recent demographic statistics show that 65.4% of Gaza's population is (or rather, was at this point...) between the ages of 0-24 - AKA NOT of voting age. The majority of people in Gaza right now did NOT vote for Hamas. Are we supposed to be okay with Israel committing atrocities on a population based on the actions of a small percentage of the population? Does this give Israel free reign to treat Gaza as an open air prison? Also, the Israeli violence has gotten to the point where even the US is starting to express concern: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-gaza-fighting-over-top-pushing-pause-2024-02-09/ Sure sounds like "let's talk about Hamas" is really "I actually want to talk about Israel." I'll repeat what I said earlier.. Gaza is an open air prison because of the terrorist organization that runs it. And they do so in order to train that 0-24 crowd to become militants who will carry out their mission statement of attempting to eradicate Israel. If a country hasn't held elections in nearly 2 decades, maybe the problem comes from within and not the external forces that surround it, which in case you forgot also includes another country that borders Gaza that wants nothing to do with them. And attempts to give humanitarian aid to Gaza will get intercepted by Hamas who clearly has little regard for the health and safety of their own people as they have made abundantly clear. No one is okay with what's happening there. But let's address the root cause of the problem, which is not Israel. 6 hours ago, Bear said: I have addressed the antisemitic rhetoric in previous posts. Instead, I will just drop this: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ , https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/23/us/jewish-palestinian-protest-israel-gaza/index.html , and https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20231020-not-in-our-name-the-jewish-new-yorkers-speaking-out-against-dehumanisation-of-palestinians Most pro-Palestine protests are not antisemitic, and many of them are organized by Jewish people and organizations. Many also do, in fact, criticize Hamas' actions. “War crimes by one party do not justify war crimes by another,” she says. “Obviously 9/11 was a war crime. Obviously, the attacks by Hamas were a war crime. But that does not justify war crimes by the United States in Iraq or by Israel in Gaza.” Oh please.. JVP couldn't come out quickly enough after October 7th to blame the incident on Israel and further their anti-Zionist BDS backed agenda. Sorry, but that promotes anti-semitism, it doesn't push back on it. Don't think that's quite the drop you're looking for. Or the France24 article which highlights arrests that were made in NYC. 6 hours ago, Bear said: Even Palestinians criticize Hamas and antisemitism: https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231019-i-refuse-to-be-associated-with-hamas-gazans-in-paris-lament-ban-on-protests I know people who have nothing to do with Hamas whose homes have been bombed. I remember my uncles and cousins saying back in 2006 that nobody wanted Hamas. My heart aches when I see that people conflate Hamas and the Palestinians. Pro-Palestinian protests have been banned in France and yet I reject all anti-Semitic remarks. I wouldn't let anyone use that kind of language; I can't stand people attacking Jews. I paid close attention to this at two Paris rallies I attended last week. Fortunately, I didn't hear any anti-Semitic comments. I deplore the killing of Israelis and Palestinians with equal force, and I absolutely condemn the atrocities committed by Hamas. But why don’t we also condemn the Israeli government’s insane policy of vengeance? I feel we are not given the same consideration. All we want is to live in peace. The objective must be to achieve a ceasefire.” Seems like there's always a but here. "Hamas is bad, but..." Yea, I want to live in peace as well. That's a tough ask in a world where Jews are being conflated with Israel (easy to say that most can discern the difference, but it doesn't always work that way) and therefore myself and a lot of people I know and care about are dealing with a rise in anti-semitism. 2 of my best friends live in Israel, so they're closer to this than I am, and forgive me if I'm concerned for their well-being. I am empathetic to the people in Gaza who are suffering right now, but the minute they begin to buy into the Hamas narrative, then that makes them someone who would stab me to death if they got the opportunity. I would love for there to be a ceasefire, but how many deals has Hamas - and stretching much further back, all of Palestine - to achieve peace in this most volatile region. I don't see how that's possible when Hamas, a terrorist organization that reigns over Gaza, continues to make its mission statement to include "from the river to the sea" when we all know what that means and there is little dispute over the intention Quote
Quaker2001 Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 6 hours ago, Sir Rols said: On one hand I’m reluctant to want to jump in to this particular discussion, but on the other hand, we ARE a discussion board, and we really should be able to vent our views. Firstly, I don’t think anyone here with any ounce of empathy can feel anything but sympathy, distress and, yes, anger, at the suffering the Palestinian people are going through right now and would like to see whatever measures taken to end this horrible conflict. Surely that goes without saying. The reason Russia spills into the Olympic sphere of action, is because, just eight years after his regime organised one of the most blatant and organised campaigns of cheating at a Games, and while the Russian team was still under sanctions because of that, Putin sat at the 2022 Opening Ceremony with disdain and feigning sleep while the Ukrainian team marched before him, after having just cut a deal with Xi to delay an invasion of territorial conquest until just after the Games had ended so as not to embarrass and take the spotlight away from his ally’s moment on the global stage. Both were willing to let the paralympics be collateral damage though. It was a cynical thumbing his nose at everything the Olympics claims to champion while using the Olympics themselves as cover. So it was no wonder that for once the IOC really had no option but to take action. Now, we’re all aware of at least some of the immediate and longer term/wider scale reasons that have sparked and fed the latest tragedy in a long list of tragedies in the Middle East. We have varying views on the culpability and responsibility of all the parties to it. And the reaction to it IS being played out vehemently in the wider international sphere, bringing in the UN and allies of both sides as well as concerned citizens - such as members here. And indeed, even Israel’s staunchest allies have not been above criticising i’s actions and strategy, while stopping short of abandoning it. But the Olympics has no direct role in it*. The Olympics haven’t been used as cynically as the Russians did. Neither the Israeli’s or the Palestinians have misused the Games to cover their own deeds or intentions as Putin did. The IOC has not been implicated, or forced to act, in any role within the current conflict. That, as far as I feel, is about as far as the current conflict in Gaza relates to this particular thread. If people did want to prosecute the guilt or righteousness of the warring parties, that’s probably more suited to a thread of its own in General Discussions. I just don’t feel it has Olympic applicability, or is analogous to the Russian situation vis-a-vis the IOC * unless we want to go back to 1972. As much as we can cite the Olympic truce as the biggest reason for Russia being in the place where they are now, we here know it's more symbolic and spiritual than anything and not the letter of the law that needs to be followed. But like you said, there is a very direct connection between Russia's 2022 offensive in Ukraine and Putin's seat at a Chinese-hosted Olympics that many dignitaries from the rest of the world made a point to not be there. The indisputable fact is that Russia has tried to use world sport in a way no other country has ever done. Not Israel. Not the United States. Not the UK. No one. We can compare the various situations and assess the war crimes being committed. In the context of sports though, there is no direct comparison. Which is why to discuss Israel in the context of a Russia thread is pure whataboutism Quote
Quaker2001 Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 3 hours ago, Rob2012 said: On top of that, Russia should've been kicked out before its invasion - for far less important, but far more relevant reasons. i.e. its consistent shitting on the Olympics from a great height for more than a decade. But Bach has been happy to sit a few feet below the defecating Russian Bear's anus with his mouth wide open. That's gone about as well as could be expected. I continue to wonder what he's getting out of this. We all understand there's opinions on both sides of "Russia should be banned entirely" versus "why should athletes suffer because of the actions of their country" but as usual, the IOC's attempts at diplomacy continue to fail miserably. It's the ultimate wanting to have his cake and eat it to where he's welcoming to Russia while at the same time ignoring what happens when you put them in the same Olympic village as Ukraine. And of course they'll put it to a 3rd party to determine who is or isn't vocally supporting the war. Plenty of folks on Twitter, including the whole of the NAFO coalition, continue to remind everyone how Bach tried to shame Ukraine for their threat to boycott, another mark against him in terms of his leadership ability. Quote
Nacre Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 Only 24% of the global pop lives in fully free countries and only 49% live in at least partial democracies. So it is inevitable that the IOC will have to accept despotic regimes as part of the "Olympic movement". I would agree that Bach has gone too far in trying to please Putin, though. (Because as several people in this thread have pointed out, Putin has used the Olympic movement itself to further his goal of subjugating the people of the lands formerly held by the Russian Empire and Soviet Union. Thus the Olympic sports are not neutral and above politics.) The charitable view is that Bach has tried his utmost to be apolitical and keep the IOC out of the melee of international geopolitics, even to the point of enabling dictators. The uncharitable view is that international sport has become dependent upon cash from autocrats (and in fact the IOC is probably less dependent than the individual sporting federations). The truth probably involves a degree of both views. Quote
Bear Posted February 11, 2024 Report Posted February 11, 2024 look I am sympathetic to the plight of pro-Israel protestors, but not when it crosses the line to where they are attacking and threatening many Palestinians and individuals for daring to support them. ----- (below isn't relevant to my response above, im just trying to keep everything in one reply as to not clog up the thread) ----- 8 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: I am empathetic to the people in Gaza who are suffering right now, but the minute they begin to buy into the Hamas narrative, then that makes them someone who would stab me to death if they got the opportunity. Most, or at least a good percentage of those suffering in Gaza would NOT stab you to death if given the opportunity. This insinuation that you're okay with them suffering over this is kinda disturbing, I wont lie... It is almost impossible to "educate" them (for lack of a better word) on what is right when they are too busy trying to escape the bombings, death, and hunger. When you are in a situation of survival, that is what you are focused on. Not politics, education, etc. Only when you no longer have to dedicate every ounce of your being to simply survive can you then introduce what is right and wrong. ----- (below isn't entirely relevant to my response above) ----- The Israeli government is ensuring that there is no peace in Palestine. Yes, Hamas is also playing a significant role, but Israel's actions has gone way past simply retaliating for what happened in October 7. Israel does not care about saving as many innocent lives as possible. They keep telling those in Gaza to evacuate to a certain spot, then proceed to bomb that spot, before telling them to evacuate again, and the cycle continues. And now, they're telling civilians in Rafah to evacuate. You say that if Hamas agrees to Israel's conditions, there will be peace again. But this simply isn't true, Israel will keep inflicting violence on the Palestinians regardless, and we've seen this because again, there was no real peace before October 7. I hope that eventually peace does actually happen, with Palestinians and Israelis peacefully coexisting with full rights and understanding for everyone. Whether this is through a one-state solution, a two-state solution, or something else. But for this to happen, the existing political structure in Israel (and of course, Hamas on the side of Palestine) cannot continue to exist. Quote
Nacre Posted February 11, 2024 Report Posted February 11, 2024 I don't think that we need to get too far into debating the ethics or wisdom of blood feuds. (The answers to which seem fairly obvious anyway . . .) There are plenty of other places for that. Debating the Russian government's participation in Olympic sports is different due to the participation of the FSB in Olympic doping, Vladimir Putin's use of sport to advance Russian propaganda, et al. None of that stuff applies to Israel and Palestine. 2 Quote
Quaker2001 Posted February 11, 2024 Report Posted February 11, 2024 28 minutes ago, Bear said: look I am sympathetic to the plight of pro-Israel protestors, but not when it crosses the line to where they are attacking and threatening many Palestinians and individuals for daring to support them. And when has that been the case? Have you actually been to a pro-Israel rally or is it just what you've seen in video clips, probably from sources that are out to show Israel in the worst possible light. I won't deny some of the terrible social media posts I've seen out there, but that's not what pro-Israel rallies are about. And I choose to use that word, not to treat them as protests. That's not what those gatherings are about, certainly not in the immediate aftermath of October 7th, let along before and after. I was at multiple pro-Israel events in NYC in October. They were about community and coming together. Speeches from rabbis and Jewish advocates. The only message they were about was "bring them home now." Not once was there the slightest hint of violence or threats about the Palestinian people, only against Hamas. I doubt don't there are those who have threatened violence, but they are few and far between. Most of those who support Israel know to make the distinction between the people of Palestine and Hamas and so do while being critical of their government's actions. The same cannot be said of pro-Palestine protests which often do conflate Israel with all Jews and will make threats of violence against them. 36 minutes ago, Bear said: Most, or at least a good percentage of those suffering in Gaza would NOT stab you to death if given the opportunity. This insinuation that you're okay with them suffering over this is kinda disturbing, I wont lie... It is almost impossible to "educate" them (for lack of a better word) on what is right when they are too busy trying to escape the bombings, death, and hunger. When you are in a situation of survival, that is what you are focused on. Not politics, education, etc. Only when you no longer have to dedicate every ounce of your being to simply survive can you then introduce what is right and wrong. I have never insinuated anything even close to that. Not sure if you believe that's actually what I think or if it's just easier for you to argue a strawman. So let's clear this up. You're right that all the people of Gaza know is the struggle to survive. And they've been told by their leaders that the reason they're struggling to survive is because of the Jews. I'm fairly confident they know those politics. Especially since Hamas makes it clear that it is what their mission is. I don't entirely blame the people of Gaza for thinking that way. They don't know any better and Hamas is committed to making sure it stays that way, the same way North Korea doesn't want their citizens to know what's going on in the outside world. You noted that around 2/3 of the Gaza population is under the age of 24. So what else do you think they've grown up with nearly their entire lives. When they have been conditioned to not only view Jews as the enemy but as a threat to their very existence, then yes, they would absolutely take out their frustrations on a Jew if given the opportunity. And if you think the opposite only applies to "most" then thank you for helping to make my point for me. 1 hour ago, Bear said: The Israeli government is ensuring that there is no peace in Palestine. Yes, Hamas is also playing a significant role, but Israel's actions has gone way past simply retaliating for what happened in October 7. Israel does not care about saving as many innocent lives as possible. They keep telling those in Gaza to evacuate to a certain spot, then proceed to bomb that spot, before telling them to evacuate again, and the cycle continues. And now, they're telling civilians in Rafah to evacuate. You say that if Hamas agrees to Israel's conditions, there will be peace again. But this simply isn't true, Israel will keep inflicting violence on the Palestinians regardless, and we've seen this because again, there was no real peace before October 7. I hope that eventually peace does actually happen, with Palestinians and Israelis peacefully coexisting with full rights and understanding for everyone. Whether this is through a one-state solution, a two-state solution, or something else. But for this to happen, the existing political structure in Israel (and of course, Hamas on the side of Palestine) cannot continue to exist. Ahh, more buts. There are certainly people within Israeli government that have little regard for the lives of Palestinians, but guess what.. so does Hamas. They're not trying to protect their citizens. They're happy to turn them into martyrs because it'll increase the anti-semitism throughout the world and turn sentiment against Israel. There was no peace prior to October 7th because Hamas existed before October 7th. They weren't just invented that deal to give the Israelis a face to fight against. If there was ever leadership of Palestine whose mission wasn't to destroy Jews, then yes, Israel would back off. But that's not going to happen because in the nearly 8 decades of a post-WWII world, Hitler still has plenty of fans out there who want to finish what he start. The existing political structure of Israel exists in large part because of the continued threats in the region. Most people agree that Israel has a right to defend itself. Yet when they defend themselves, it's "oh, but not like that." I have no illusions that we'll see peace in the Middle East in my lifetime. Because even if Hamas were to be destroyed, another organization would likely emerge to suppress the people of Gaza. And that's a crying shame because none of this is their fault Quote
Bear Posted February 11, 2024 Report Posted February 11, 2024 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: And when has that been the case? Have you actually been to a pro-Israel rally or is it just what you've seen in video clips, probably from sources that are out to show Israel in the worst possible light. I won't deny some of the terrible social media posts I've seen out there, but that's not what pro-Israel rallies are about. And I choose to use that word, not to treat them as protests. That's not what those gatherings are about, certainly not in the immediate aftermath of October 7th, let along before and after. I was at multiple pro-Israel events in NYC in October. They were about community and coming together. Speeches from rabbis and Jewish advocates. The only message they were about was "bring them home now." Not once was there the slightest hint of violence or threats about the Palestinian people, only against Hamas. I doubt don't there are those who have threatened violence, but they are few and far between. Most of those who support Israel know to make the distinction between the people of Palestine and Hamas and so do while being critical of their government's actions. The same cannot be said of pro-Palestine protests which often do conflate Israel with all Jews and will make threats of violence against them. So many pro-Palestine protests have been conducted in the way you talk about pro-Israel protests. My point with the comment I made was that you're generalizing entire protests based on the actions of a minority, but when its the reverse side you instantly go full praise mode as if they can't do anything wrong. Both sides have their disturbing sides, but it seems like you're purposefully ignoring the negative aspects of the pro-Israeli side to make the pro-Palestinian side seem much more sinister than it actually is. 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: I have never insinuated anything even close to that. Not sure if you believe that's actually what I think or if it's just easier for you to argue a strawman. So let's clear this up. That's what it sounded like to me, I'm not making a deliberate attempt to put words into your mouth. 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: You're right that all the people of Gaza know is the struggle to survive. And they've been told by their leaders that the reason they're struggling to survive is because of the Jews. I'm fairly confident they know those politics. Especially since Hamas makes it clear that it is what their mission is. I don't entirely blame the people of Gaza for thinking that way. They don't know any better and Hamas is committed to making sure it stays that way, the same way North Korea doesn't want their citizens to know what's going on in the outside world. You noted that around 2/3 of the Gaza population is under the age of 24. So what else do you think they've grown up with nearly their entire lives. When they have been conditioned to not only view Jews as the enemy but as a threat to their very existence, then yes, they would absolutely take out their frustrations on a Jew if given the opportunity. Let's be honest for a moment - neither you or I actually know what they believe because we aren't currently in Gaza in the moment. That is why I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, because being okay (or at the very least, standing by and letting the violence occur without speaking out) with what's going on simply based on "well, I *think* they would kill me" is, well, not okay and is only contributing to the problem. 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: And if you think the opposite only applies to "most" then thank you for helping to make my point for me. there's undoubtedly going to be people like how you described. but you cannot let an entire group suffer because of the beliefs of a minority. 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: Ahh, more buts. There are certainly people within Israeli government that have little regard for the lives of Palestinians, but guess what.. so does Hamas. They're not trying to protect their citizens. They're happy to turn them into martyrs because it'll increase the anti-semitism throughout the world and turn sentiment against Israel. yeah??? i know??? i believe I've made it explicitly clear that I also want Hamas to disappear from the face of the earth. When news started coming out on Oct 7 and the immediate following days I was in support of Israel doing their thing because yeah you obviously won't let a terrorist group kill and kidnap your civilians without consequences. But as I said, at this point their response is extremely excessive and can no longer be considered retaliation. 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: The existing political structure of Israel exists in large part because of the continued threats in the region. Most people agree that Israel has a right to defend itself. Yet when they defend themselves, it's "oh, but not like that." I have no illusions that we'll see peace in the Middle East in my lifetime. Because even if Hamas were to be destroyed, another organization would likely emerge to suppress the people of Gaza. And that's a crying shame because none of this is their fault as I was saying, yes, Israel has the right to defend itself, but we have crossed the defense excuse a looooong time ago. You cannot reasonably claim that bombing the hell out of refugee camps, hospitals, and what they themselves considered "safe zones" is part of an actual defense strategy. 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: Yet when they defend themselves, it's "oh, but not like that." Yes, because Israel is literally committing war crimes to "defend" itself, which as you know, you aren't supposed to do. https://www.reuters.com/world/un-experts-say-israels-strikes-gaza-amount-collective-punishment-2023-10-12/ https://tribune.com.pk/story/2441900/doctors-observe-black-day-against-israeli-atrocities-in-gaza https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Gaza-city-OHCHR-Press-release-Dec20-2023.pdf among other examples. Quote
Durban Sandshark Posted February 16, 2024 Report Posted February 16, 2024 IIHF: RUSSIA AND BELARUS ARE STILL NOT WELCOMED BACK FOR OUR 2024-25 IIHF AND FINAL OLYMPIC QUALIFICATION TOURNAMENTS 1 Quote
StefanMUC Posted February 16, 2024 Report Posted February 16, 2024 46 minutes ago, Durban Sandshark said: IIHF: RUSSIA AND BELARUS ARE STILL NOT WELCOMED BACK FOR OUR 2024-25 IIHF AND FINAL OLYMPIC QUALIFICATION TOURNAMENTS The least they can do really in light of their bizarre Israel decision and even more so given today‘s news about Navalny. 1 Quote
Sir Rols Posted February 19, 2024 Report Posted February 19, 2024 Canada’s appealing: Kamila Valieva: Canada appeals Russia's Beijing 2022 bronze 1 Quote
Bear Posted February 19, 2024 Report Posted February 19, 2024 2 hours ago, Sir Rols said: Canada’s appealing: Kamila Valieva: Canada appeals Russia's Beijing 2022 bronze as they should... hopefully they succeed with this Quote
Sir Rols Posted February 21, 2024 Report Posted February 21, 2024 Uncle Vlad still loves her… Putin opens the Future Games in Kazan with Valieva and Nagorny Hope she had strawberry dessert after… Quote
Rob2012 Posted February 21, 2024 Report Posted February 21, 2024 On 2/19/2024 at 7:43 PM, Sir Rols said: Canada’s appealing Yep, would love to go there at some point 2 Quote
baron-pierreIV Posted February 22, 2024 Author Report Posted February 22, 2024 (edited) 10 hours ago, Sir Rols said: Uncle Vlad still loves her… Putin opens the Future Games in Kazan with Valieva and Nagorny Hope she had strawberry dessert after… So, they wanted Navalny and that Russian pilot defector dead before these Mikhailey Mouse Games opened in Kazan. Do you think the Kremlin will parade their bodies in the OC? Edited February 22, 2024 by baron-pierreIV 1 Quote
Rob2012 Posted February 23, 2024 Report Posted February 23, 2024 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/68378456 1 Quote
Sir Rols Posted February 27, 2024 Report Posted February 27, 2024 Don’t hold your breath on any medal awards for 2022’s team skating this year, the Russkis are also appealing. Valieva disqualification: Four appeals to CAS over new rankings The article mentions four appeals with the IOC also launching one, but gives no details on that (well, it is the new ITG). Quote
Quaker2001 Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 8 hours ago, Sir Rols said: Don’t hold your breath on any medal awards for 2022’s team skating this year, the Russkis are also appealing. Valieva disqualification: Four appeals to CAS over new rankings The article mentions four appeals with the IOC also launching one, but gives no details on that (well, it is the new ITG). Starting to seem more and more that the medals won't be awarded until everyone is in Milan-Cortina in 2026. Don't trust everyone involved here to settle this before then Quote
FYI Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 I always thought the awarding of Winter Olympic medals at a Summer Olympics was outta place anyway. Let them receive them at the more fitting Milan 2026 winter Games, when all the T's & I's should be well crossed & dotted by then. Quote
stryker Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 I've seen more than a few media reports suggesting after Ukraine's recent setbacks that Russia might be gearing up for a major spring offensive with the goal of seizing Kiev. For argument's let's just say this happens, Kiev falls, and Ukraine is effectively annexed as part of Russia (or least a significant territorial portion is) by June. Does this change the IOC perception especially if the Ukrainian Olympians are suddenly relegated to the refugee team I would think that would be enough for Macron to step in and say the Russians aren't welcome. The so-called neutral mantra would be impossible to carry on. Quote
Quaker2001 Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 7 hours ago, FYI said: I always thought the awarding of Winter Olympic medals at a Summer Olympics was outta place anyway. Let them receive them at the more fitting Milan 2026 winter Games, when all the T's & I's should be well crossed & dotted by then. Agreed. Do it when the figure skating community is gathered together, or at least the Winter sports community rather than at the Summer Olympics where it will get lost in the shuffle. Here's a neat idea.. use it to kick off festivities at the medals plaza. They're going to have this great venue in front of the cathedral. Do something the night before the Opening Ceremony when the figure skating team event has likely started and they can get their own time and place to get their medals that they rightfully deserve Quote
StefanMUC Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 10 minutes ago, stryker said: I've seen more than a few media reports suggesting after Ukraine's recent setbacks that Russia might be gearing up for a major spring offensive with the goal of seizing Kiev. For argument's let's just say this happens, Kiev falls, and Ukraine is effectively annexed as part of Russia (or least a significant territorial portion is) by June. Does this change the IOC perception especially if the Ukrainian Olympians are suddenly relegated to the refugee team I would think that would be enough for Macron to step in and say the Russians aren't welcome. The so-called neutral mantra would be impossible to carry on. You know, if this extreme scenario did happen (and I think it‘s very unlikely for now), Europe and the world would really have much bigger troubles. 1 Quote
Quaker2001 Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 23 minutes ago, stryker said: I've seen more than a few media reports suggesting after Ukraine's recent setbacks that Russia might be gearing up for a major spring offensive with the goal of seizing Kiev. For argument's let's just say this happens, Kiev falls, and Ukraine is effectively annexed as part of Russia (or least a significant territorial portion is) by June. Does this change the IOC perception especially if the Ukrainian Olympians are suddenly relegated to the refugee team I would think that would be enough for Macron to step in and say the Russians aren't welcome. The so-called neutral mantra would be impossible to carry on. It's not the responsibility of the head of state of the host country to make that decision. I shudder to even think about it, but could you imagine if a certain someone is the US president in 2028. Would you want him to have input on which countries could or couldn't participate in the Olympics that year? If that scenario plays out - and like Stefan said, for the good of the entire world well beyond the Olympics, let's hope it doesn't happen - then I would like to hope that the IOC will act to completely exclude all Russian athletes and still honor the Ukrainian NOC. Of course, I don't exactly trust them to make that decision. June is less than 2 months from the start of the Olympics, so it's pretty late in the game to change things up. Russia as an NOC we know won't have a place in Paris and I can't imagine they'll suddenly designate Ukraine's athletes as refugees, particularly in team sports they've already qualified for. 1 Quote
Rob2012 Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 28 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said: It's not the responsibility of the head of state of the host country to make that decision. Not that specific decision, no. But if France were to rule that Russians can't enter the country, then that amounts to much the same thing. Quote
Quaker2001 Posted February 28, 2024 Report Posted February 28, 2024 5 minutes ago, Rob2012 said: Not that specific decision, no. But if France were to rule that Russians can't enter the country, then that amounts to much the same thing. Still feels like that needs to happen in conjunction with the IOC. If it's a blanket ban that goes beyond the Olympics, maybe that's a different story. But again, that's why I brought up the scenario about the US which I'd rather not think about in terms of a president making that kind of decree 1 Quote
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