Time to kick muddah-f*cking Russia out once & for all?

[StefanMUC]

33 minutes ago, Chris_Mex said:

Saying that the conflict was because ukraine wanter to enter the EU, is denying that ukraine (with am little help form NATO) wanted to put nuclear weapons next to russian borders. And of course the conflict has nothing to do with damaging russia's image as the biggest gas exporter for the EU and not being the US. Also has nothing to do with the US wanting to sell weapons to the rest of NATO and selling the story that Russia is the next Nazi Germany. There are interest conflict here, of course an international federation MUST not take side

You mean after Ukraine left its nuclear arsenal to Russia in the Budapest treaty in return for territorial integrity? How did that work out again?

[Nacre]

16 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

Saying that the conflict was because ukraine wanter to enter the EU, is denying that ukraine (with am little help form NATO) wanted to put nuclear weapons next to russian borders. And of course the conflict has nothing to do with damaging russia's image as the biggest gas exporter for the EU and not being the US. Also has nothing to do with the US wanting to sell weapons to the rest of NATO and selling the story that Russia is the next Nazi Germany. There are interest conflict here, of course an international federation MUST not take side

1. Ukraine does not have nuclear weapons, nor is it developing them. The USA has lots of nuclear weapons, but it doesn't need to base them in Ukraine (or any other eastern European country) in order to threaten Russia with them.
2. In the long run this crisis will push the EU to meet its energy needs internally, and not rely on either Russia or the USA. 
3. US weapons sales to Eastern Europe are a tiny fraction of the real market for American military suppliers: the US military. Countries like Poland and Ukraine are working to develop their own military-industrial capacity rather than relying on the US.

The USA has done lots of terrible and stupid things in the past. But it's not responsible for this. 

[Nacre]

Why I don't think that sports are a very effective way of punishing rogue states . . .

1. Sports governing bodies have no way of really sanctioning someone like Vladimir Putin in a meaningful way. They can only really punish the athletes and fans.
2. Personally, I think it is extremely doubtful that dictators care about sport itself. They only care about it as a mechanism of redistributing tax funds to their cronies and fanning nationalism in the populace they rule over. So banning their national team can actually help them by letting them portray their country as the victim of the "hegemonic west", justifying the disappearance of national funds and military spending as part of a cold war against the west. 
3. The mechanisms by which dictators remain in power (government control of media, police brutality and fear, patronage politics, et al) are not affected by sport.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Nacre

[StefanMUC]

3 hours ago, Nacre said:

Why I don't think that sports are a very effective way of punishing rogue states . . .

1. Sports governing bodies have no way of really sanctioning someone like Vladimir Putin in a meaningful way. They can only really punish the athletes and fans.
2. Personally, I think it is extremely doubtful that dictators care about sport itself. They only care about it as a mechanism of redistributing tax funds to their cronies and fanning nationalism in the populace they rule over. So banning their national team can actually help them by letting them portray their country as the victim of the "hegemonic west", justifying the disappearance of national funds and military spending as part of a cold war against the west. 
3. The mechanisms by which dictators remain in power (government control of media, police brutality and fear, patronage politics, et al) are not affected by sport.

That’s all true, but sitting on their hands doing nothing or even actually giving such regimes a chance to shine makes sports orgs complicit.

 

[Sir Rols]

Russia celebrate CAS sanction ending, but WADA reminds of RUSADA non-compliance

[Sir Rols]

Maybe the Spartakiad is on the brink of revival!

Pozdynakov, re-elected as ROC President, looks at "alternative" Olympic options

Kremlin official says Russia must create sports cooperation with allies outside IOC

[FYI]

Even if the Russians are allowed back in, per se, I wonder if they'll boycott LA28 anyway. 

[StefanMUC]

45 minutes ago, FYI said:

Even if the Russians are allowed back in, per se, I wonder if they'll boycott LA28 anyway. 

If they get one of theirs into the White House in 24, then no.

[FYI]

Please, don't even joke about that (although, what's scarier is that it can be a possibility). 

[kathanylion4]

interesting information

[baron-pierreIV]

Russia stripped of another gold medal -- from London 2012 -- for doping, of course.

Former Olympic Gold Medalist Is Being Stripped Of Her Medal (msn.com)  When will it end?

[Sir Rols]

Uh oh….

Western nations considering Paris 2024 boycott if Russia is allowed to compete

[StefanMUC]

5 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Uh oh….

Western nations considering Paris 2024 boycott if Russia is allowed to compete

Well, I would hope they do.

Let this sh…ow hit the fan in Fencing 1976‘s Lausanne office.

[Nacre]

It would be difficult for France to boycott their own games, or for France's allies to do so. In any case, more weapons and ammunition shipments to Ukraine are a better solution than pointless gestures of disapproval.

[Guilga]

On 1/6/2023 at 5:26 PM, Sir Rols said:

Uh oh….

Western nations considering Paris 2024 boycott if Russia is allowed to compete

Strike 2!
 

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1132915/zelenskyy-macron-paris-2024

Quote

IOC warns Governments have no right to dictate if Russians compete at Paris 2024 after Zelenskyy plea to Macron

2

 8 comments

• By Patrick Burke
•  
•  Wednesday, 25 January 2023

 

 

---

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has claimed "the vast majority of participants" in consultation calls want a pathway for Russian and Belarusian athletes to return so they can compete at Paris 2024 after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy urged Emmanuel Macron to help ensure they were not represented at the Games.

Russian and Belarusian athletes have been largely frozen out of international sport since the invasion of Ukraine in February last year, but the IOC has entertained a proposal for both countries' athletes to compete as neutrals at Asian qualifying events for Paris 2024 made at last month's Olympic Summit.

Zelenskyy held talks with IOC President Thomas Bach last month and admitted he was "upset" at a potential return for Russian and Belarusian athletes.

During a call with French President Macron last night, Zelenskyy asked for his help to block their participation next year.

"I particularly emphasised that athletes from Russia should have no place at the Olympic Games in Paris," Zelenskyy wrote on Telegram.

The IOC has revealed it held consultation talks with IOC members, athletes' representatives, International Federations and National Olympic Committees on January 17 and 19 to discuss the outcome of the Olympic Summit, and the Executive Board held a meeting today to consider its conclusions.

It reiterated that sanctions against Russia and Belarus including a ban on national symbols remain in place and the Olympic Movement supports efforts to ensure Ukraine send a "strong team" to Paris 2024 and Milan Cortina 2026.

Russia and Belarus have been largely frozen out of international sport since the invasion of Ukraine, but the IOC has entertained a proposal for them to participate in Asian qualifiers for Paris 2024 ©Getty Images

The IOC claimed that "the vast majority of the participants in each of the consultation calls" supported its stance on the participation of Russian and Belarusian athletes.

These include a view that "no athlete should be prevented from competing just because of their passport" and "Governments must not decide which athletes can participate in which competition and which athletes cannot".

A pathway for athletes' participation should be "further explored", with the Olympic Council of Asia's offer to facilitate Russian and Belarusian involvement "welcomed and appreciated".

This would be under "strict conditions" of neutrality and only for athletes who "fully respect the Olympic Charter", meaning they have not actively supported the war in Ukraine and comply with the World Anti-Doping Code.

This would be enforced through "individual checks" on "all entered athletes", with International Federations required to remove them from competition and report the incident to the IOC should these conditions not be met.

The IOC claimed that a "vast majority" of participants in the consultation meetings wanted the IOC to "continue the exploration of the above-mentioned concept by way of bilateral consultation", but insisted each International Federation is the "sole authority" of its international competitions.

It again referenced opinions of the United Nations General Assembly and key officials on sport, and pointed to the example of Yugoslav and Macedonian athletes at Barcelona 1992.

They participated under the Independent Olympic Participants banner because of United Nations sanctions against Yugoslavia.

While today's IOC statement does not immediately pave the way for Russia and Belarus to return to international sport under a neutral banner, it provides a further sign of the Lausanne-based organisation increasingly trying to position itself into a situation whereby they can.

The IOC claims that a possible return of Russian and Belarusian athletes would be under "strict conditions" of neutrality and not supporting the war in Ukraine ©Getty Images

Last month, Bach cited Macron in outlining the IOC's position that "we need to explore ways to overcome this dilemma with regard to athletes’ participation and come back to the sporting merits, and not to political interference" on Russia.

The French President has suggested "sport should not be politicised", and that "athletes from all countries, sometimes including countries at war" should be permitted to compete at major events, including Paris 2024.

Macron faced criticism from Kyiv last month after claiming that Russia would need security guarantees as part of future negotiations to end the war, and he appears to have taken a softer stance towards Vladimir Putin than many of his Western counterparts, although France has backed European Union sanctions against Russia and provided military aid to Ukraine.

Ukraine’s Sports Minister and National Olympic Committee of Ukraine President Vadym Guttsait has also urged the IOC not to lift a ban on Russia and Belarus at Paris 2024, highlighting that athletes from Russia were now serving in the country's armed forces and the impact of attacks on Ukraine.

The French capital is due to host the Olympic Games for the first time in a century next year from July 26 to August 11, followed by the Paralympics from August 28 to September 8.

If this actually happens, will it be the ultimate own goal?

[StefanMUC]

Own goal by?

Zelensky for demanding this and getting reprimanded by the IOC? Certainly not.

By the Lausanne crowd? Oh definitely. Once they let Russia and Lukashia back in, much of Eastern and Northern Europe goes out the front door. Macron also knows this, and he has no interest in it happening, so I suspect for now he‘ll play Fencing 1976 with the same empty rethoric that Bach is used to himself.

[Guilga]

2 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Own goal by?

Zelensky for demanding this and getting reprimanded by the IOC? Certainly not.

By the Lausanne crowd? Oh definitely. Once they let Russia and Lukashia back in, much of Eastern and Northern Europe goes out the front door. Macron also knows this, and he has no interest in it happening, so I suspect for now he‘ll play Fencing 1976 with the same empty rethoric that Bach is used to himself.

Lausanne crowd definitely.

Also, an update:

 

 

It seems that the IOC will let the athletes of the two compete, as long as they compete as neutrals, ain't dopers and aren't supporting the war. Sounds sensible, in a individual athlete level, but when your product is nations clashing with one another, having neutrals that you can tell where they come from...is it ideal? The comments seem to suggest otherwise.

The room just lit itself in fire.

The decision by itself might not be a shock, but it definitely aren't going to help the IOC at all.

 

[StefanMUC]

Like Bolshunov was a „neutral“ athlete who later on showed off his gold medals at the fascist Z rally.

The IOC will never learn, but I‘m sure there will be lots of faeces getting in touch with rotating ventilation systems soon. Get the popcorn ready.

[StefanMUC]

Global Athletes not mincing their words here:

https://twitter.com/globalathletehq/status/1618310843246215168?s=46&t=6k7u6lXGIbD0dKKZ5E5RaA

[TheOtherRob]

The neutral athletes, no flag thing again?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Sir Rols]

I have to confess, I do get a bit of schadenfreude watching the debacle Bach ravels himself into - maybe he’ll retire early to foist the mess onto his successor. But it’s so typically Bach to play the fence sitter and still manage to piss off everyone in the process. He provokes the west into publically labelling him Russia’s pet, while his Moscow mates still accuse him of being a NATO puppet. Just let your balls drop Thomas, and you might actually be able to leave the job with some semblance of a legacy.

Meanwhile, it’s the Olympic Council of Asia (OCA) who are emerging as the rogue mavericks of the Olympic movement. It’s them (and the AFC in football) that are playing kissy-kissy with Vlad now he’s found himself with no friends in Europe bar Lukashenkostan. And that shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s stuffed full of potential mates - China, Iran, the Stans - even Saudi Arabia, the “ally” the West is embarrassed to acknowledge and which only pays lip service to the West because it hates Iran more. And cash counts in the OCA - surely the only continental Olympic council where petro dollars can buy the Winter Asiad for the world’s most pre-eminent hot desert fiefdom. I’m glad Oz and NZ seem to have deleted the OCA off its Tinder contacts.

Edited January 26 by Sir Rols

[Karenina]

On 1/26/2023 at 3:46 PM, Sir Rols said:

I have to confess, I do get a bit of schadenfreude watching the debacle Bach ravels himself into - maybe he’ll retire early to foist the mess onto his successor. But it’s so typically Bach to play the fence sitter and still manage to piss off everyone in the process. He provokes the west into publically labelling him Russia’s pet, while his Moscow mates still accuse him of being a NATO puppet. Just let your balls drop Thomas, and you might actually be able to leave the job with some semblance of a legacy.

Meanwhile, it’s the Olympic Council of Asia (OCA) who are emerging as the rogue mavericks of the Olympic movement. It’s them (and the AFC in football) that are playing kissy-kissy with Vlad now he’s found himself with no friends in Europe bar Lukashenkostan. And that shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s stuffed full of potential mates - China, Iran, the Stans - even Saudi Arabia, the “ally” the West is embarrassed to acknowledge and which only pays lip service to the West because it hates Iran more. And cash counts in the OCA - surely the only continental Olympic council where petro dollars can buy the Winter Asiad for the world’s most pre-eminent hot desert fiefdom. I’m glad Oz and NZ seem to have deleted the OCA off its Tinder contacts.

Truth.  I can at least say, without hesitation, that the chances of the ISU letting Russia compete in their Four Continents Championships in the skating sports is non-existent.  There's no way that Japan, Korea, Canada or the USA want to face Russian skaters in those continental championships.  

Also, I suspect this is being driven by summer sports feds that have been bought and paid for with Russian & Chinese money/influence.  The winter sports feds are dominated by European nations who have no use for Russia these days.

[Quaker2001]

More sentiment against the IOC..

Wladimir Klitschko condemns IOC for plan to include Russian athletes in 2024 Summer Olympics

And this is an odd way of wording this tweet, but it will potentially add more fuel to the fire..

 

[baron-pierreIV]

Was just thinking that in the last few decades of post-WW2 "peace," the Russians (whether Soviets or post-Iron Curtain Russkies) are ALWAYS the aggressors invading other countries in Olympic years!!! 

1. Melbourne 1956 - USSR invades Hungary
2. Mexico 1968 - they send their tanks to Czechoslovakia
3.  Moscow 1980 - took over Afghanistan 
4.  Sochi 2014 - grabbed Crimea
5.  Beijing 2022 - attacked the Ukraine!  

I mean that is QUITE A RECORD!!  All this is reason enough for the IOC and the Security Council to permanently mothball Russia and her cheating athletes!! 

Addendum: and what greater proof is there of Russian post-WW2 perfidy in that they have played in FOUR Japanese-sets of Olympic Games over the last 60+ years, yet they have NEVER formally made their peace with Japan over the fate of those four uninhabited Japanese islands -- although they recognize each other diplomatically.   They are real Russian putzes!! 

Edited March 11 by baron-pierreIV

[stryker]

I truly think that Bach, Coates, and the rest of the IOC really believed that this war would`ve ended by now and there would have been no possibility of even considering Russian and Belarussian athletes not competing at Paris. In their minds, the war would be over, both Belarus and Russia would get a slap on the wrist, and Bach would be able to use the opening ceremonies on the Seine to proclaim how the world has come together as a sign of peace or something along those lines. Now there's the very real possibility this war is going on not just next year but for years to come according to U.S. intelligence. It's not out of the realm of possibility we are having this same discussion when Milan-Cortina rolls around in 2026. And what if between now and the opening of Paris, the Russians do indeed get that breakthrough (Zelensky has commented the fall of Bakhmut could open up an opportunity for the Russians to advance throughout Ukraine's east) and Kiev is under siege again or even falls? Would Bach and co. still be willing to say the Russians can compete as neutrals?