Munich 203? - How can it work out?

[StefanMUC]

The 2018 bid survived a local referendum in Garmisch, after a lot of debate that was lacking for 2022.

And Garmisch really is the only reasonable solution for Alpine events unless you want to massively invest into infrastructure and venues in other places, which clearly would get far more resistance. A Munich bid without Garmisch is a summer bid. A winter bid without Garmisch will not happen.

As for Allianz Arena: there is no lack of indoor venues, and given its special architecture, I very much doubt it would be logistically possible at an acceptable cost. So why should this be done?

[munichfan]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:03 PM, StefanMUC said:

And finally, does DOSB want Summer Olympics more as they are more prestigious and there are several potential candidates within Germany ([...] I don't see Russia as so certain for the moment, by the way), or does DOSB try for the relatively low hanging fruit Winter Olympics where there's far less international competition? In that case, Munich is the only realistic choice (unless you want to have events spread across all over central Germany plus Alpine events in Garmisch).

 

Well, as events are unfolding, there's absolutely no way they could even dare think about Moscow until at least the 2040'ies. This whole thing has been a big lesson on "if I know anything, it's that I know nothing" for me.

[stryker]

On 2/28/2022 at 11:21 PM, StefanMUC said:

As for Allianz Arena: there is no lack of indoor venues, and given its special architecture, I very much doubt it would be logistically possible at an acceptable cost. So why should this be done?

I was under the impression that Olympia Eishalle would be demolished once SAP Garden opened for ECH Red Bull, but if the plan is to keep it around then it can easily serve as a secondary ice hockey venue. Now that I've see the roof design for Allianz Arena yes I agree it couldn't be enclosed for ice events. Is the Audi Dome capable of being converted to an ice arena. Seems like it'd be an ideal venue for curling or perhaps women's ice hockey.

[StefanMUC]

31 minutes ago, stryker said:

I was under the impression that Olympia Eishalle would be demolished once SAP Garden opened for ECH Red Bull, but if the plan is to keep it around then it can easily serve as a secondary ice hockey venue. Now that I've see the roof design for Allianz Arena yes I agree it couldn't be enclosed for ice events. Is the Audi Dome capable of being converted to an ice arena. Seems like it'd be an ideal venue for curling or perhaps women's ice hockey.

Yes, I think the plan was to demolish the old ice stadium. I've lost a bit the track if that is really going to happen - there is need for public ice rinks, and I'm not sure the SAP Garden will really cover that as it will be in use by ice hockey and FC Bayern Basketball basically every weekend. Pre-covid I've been to some of their matches at Audi Dome, don't see why they couldn't use it as a secondary ice arena, though the curling venue was always planned to be the Olympiaschwimmhalle (they had the idea already for 2018, so Beijing does not have the copyright for that one).

[munichfan]

Isn't SAP Garden supposed to incorporate two (or even three) training rinks that will also be open to the public, schools and sports clubs? Or did these get scrapped?

As for the Audi Dome: I haven't been there in person, but an ice rink is bigger than a basketball court, so that might lead to some sightline issues at the edges.

[StefanMUC]

OK, just checked: indeed SAP garden will get three extra rinks, the city has made a contract with Red Bull for the public use.

I‘ve never been to an ice hockey match, but I‘m assuming things could be done with Audi Dome if required and it saves costs.

[Brekkie Boy]

On 2/21/2022 at 4:38 PM, munichfan said:

By the way, I've had a little fun aligning the dimensions of a speed skating rink (provided by McSmit on Wikimedia) to the stadium floor as closely as possible on Google Earth. It sure looks like a tight squeeze, but it might be possible. The setup would still provide adequate room for ceremony stuff (flag poles, stages for the speeches...) outside of the skating oval, so all you'd have to do to switch from ceremony to sports mode would be to cover/uncover the ice surface with a white surface for projections.

Interesting - was only pondering to myself a couple of weeks ago whether a skating oval would fit in an athletics stadium.    The problem of course is since the 90s the requirement has been for the oval to be covered, but actually wonder if going open air could actually renew a bit of interest in the long track variant of the sport.    Always makes me laugh how they throw so many on to the tiny short track rink at a time yet generally speaking limit it to two at a time on the massive speed skating ovals.

 

The Oval though does seem to be the main barrier when it comes to indoor venues for bidding cities.   Most big cities will likely have adequate venues, or at least future plans for venues, for the more conventionally sized ice rinks and hockey rinks, but a space bigger enough for a speed skating oval can be a costly white elevant, and as much as keeping it as an oval ticks the sporting legacy box practically it's probably better for the space to be broken down into smaller venues following the games.

[stryker]

On 3/12/2022 at 7:58 PM, Brekkie Boy said:

Interesting - was only pondering to myself a couple of weeks ago whether a skating oval would fit in an athletics stadium.    The problem of course is since the 90s the requirement has been for the oval to be covered, but actually wonder if going open air could actually renew a bit of interest in the long track variant of the sport.    Always makes me laugh how they throw so many on to the tiny short track rink at a time yet generally speaking limit it to two at a time on the massive speed skating ovals.

 

The Oval though does seem to be the main barrier when it comes to indoor venues for bidding cities.   Most big cities will likely have adequate venues, or at least future plans for venues, for the more conventionally sized ice rinks and hockey rinks, but a space bigger enough for a speed skating oval can be a costly white elevant, and as much as keeping it as an oval ticks the sporting legacy box practically it's probably better for the space to be broken down into smaller venues following the games.

The IOC and ISU are finally coming to their senses about the speed skating ovals which as you correctly mentioned often end up as costly white elephants. The IOC has encouraged Milan to drop plans for an expensive renovation to enclose an outdoor oval and adapt an existing athletics stadium (Arena Civica) instead.

As for a potential Munich bid they don't have that problem since the Max Aicher arena is more than capable of hosting speed skating.

[Brekkie Boy]

One more tick for Munich then.   Not sure the Arena Civica looks suitable to adapt for Milan though due to it's historic nature and the max length of the oval slightly exceeding that of a track.

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, SportLightning said:

Berlin is still in the running in a joint bid with Tel Aviv (Israel).

NO, IT IS NOT!!!

Edited March 15, 2022 by Sir Rols

[Sir Rols]

10 minutes ago, SportLightning said:

They still are. The German Olympic Committe just haven't talked about plans on a joint bid with Tel Aviv, Israel since last April. They could still make it happen. Not everyone can agree it's not.

It was April 2019, so three years ago. And 2 months  after, the government dismissed it totally.

 https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1080125/german-interior-minister-dismisses-unthinkable-berlin-bid-for-2036-olympics-on-centenary-of-hitlers-games

It is NOT happening 

[StefanMUC]