Evergreen Line: North East Sector LRT

[mr.x]

Vancouver: Home to Canada's Largest Rapid Transit System, 2009

Evergreen Line | Translink Project Website

SHAPING THE FUTURE 2009

In October 2004, the Evergreen Line light rail transit line was approved in principle by the TransLink Board.  This line will feature 10 stations over 11 kilometres, linking neighbourhoods in Coquitlam, Port Moody and Burnaby and connecting with SkyTrain, West Coast Express and TransLink buses.  TransLink has established guidelines to deliver the most efficient, effective and responsive system to the communities along the route.  The following defines the core features of the Evergreen Line:

Technology

Light rail transit technology features low-floor, high-capacity, driver-operated, quiet, passenger vehicles traveling on embedded rails in streets or in exclusive rail rights-of-way.  The vehicles run on electricity powered by overhead wires.  Light rail transit systems provide fast, efficient and reliable service.

Route

The route corridor has been established and approved by the TransLink Board.  However, precise details have not yet been determined, and will be subject to extensive community consultation.

Street Level

The line will be primarily at street level.  Light rail vehicles will operate in their own traffic lanes with priority at signalized intersections.  Some elevated guideways may be necessary to avoid traffic and pedestrian impacts and to ensure travel times and convenient transfers.

Tunnel

A tunnel is required beneath Clarke hill, as Clarke Road is too steep for the light rail transit vehicles.  Tunnel portals will be located near Como Lake Avenue and the west end of St. Johns Street.

Neighbourhood Friendly Stations

The light rail transit line will have 10 neighbourhood stations.  The general locations of nine stations have been identified with potential stations at either Cameron Street (on North Road), or Douglas College.  Most stations will resemble a large bus shelter, and will be at street level.  Stations will be designed to address passenger and community safety, and will feature rain protection, lighting, seating, and real time next train information.  Using landscaping and public art, the stations will be designed to blend with the local neighbourhoods.

Service

Hours of operation will be the same as SkyTrain, running seven days a week in both directions.  There will be a train every six minutes during rush hours.  Travel time from end to end will be approximately 20 minutes.

Connections

Fares will be the same as, and fully-integrated with, the TransLink regional transit network.  The new line will provide reliable connections to SkyTrain, West Coast Express and local bus routes.

Safety and Security

The trains, like other vehicles on the street, will obey traffic signals, speed limits and other rules of the road.  Light rail vehicles will be powered by overhead electrical wires, making the tracks safe to cross.  The tunnel portion of the line will be equipped with safety systems and will be monitored remotely.  Neighbourhood stations will be designed to be visible and to make passengers feel safe.  Security will be provided by the drivers, train attendants, and TransLink’s Transit Police.

Service That Gets You Around Seven Days a Week

1) Morning and afternoon rush hours Mid-day

   6:30 am - 9:00 am   Mon to Fri

   3:00 pm - 6:00 pm   Mon to Fri

   9:00 am - 3:00 pm   Mon to Fri

   10:00 am - 6:00 pm  weekends

   Frequency: 6 minutes - 7.5 minutes

2) Early morning

   Start of service all days*

   Frequency: 15 minutes

3) Evening

   6:00 pm - 11:00 pm all days

   Frequency: 10 minutes

4) Late night

   End of service all days

   Frequency: 15 minutes

*Service start times vary by station.  These are the minimum service frequencies currently planned.

When Will Construction Begin?

The project is anticipated to proceed to detailed design in the summer of 2006.  Construction contracts are planned to be awarded in the fall of 2006 with construction scheduled to begin in 2007.

When Will the Evergreen Line Start Running?

Construction is scheduled to be completed in September 2009 with testing and commissioning occurring during the remainder of the year.  Regular revenue service is expected to start in December 2009, in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

How Will I Transfer to SkyTrain at Lougheed Town Centre?

The new LRT service will transport passengers from the northeast end of the line in Coquitlam to the transit transfer point at Lougheed Station in Burnaby.  Passengers will be able to easily transfer to the Millennium Line or buses.

Financing

Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (Translink): $400 million

Provincial Government of British Columbia: $400 million ($200 million already promised with another $200 million pending)

TOTAL: $800 MILLION (2003 dollars, does not include construction cost inflation).  Indefinetely to change.

Evergreen Line LRT Vehicles Features

- sleek, modern design

- three braking systems

- temperature-controlled

- quiet and comfortable

- at least 8 doors (4 per side)

- driver compartments at both ends

- 2.65m wide, 3.65m high, 29-32m long

- maximum capacity: 200 passengers, including 65 seats, 2 bicycles, and 4 wheelchairs/strollers

- low-floor, meaning the floor of the vehicle is level with the station platform

- peak hour service will be a two-vehicle train every 6 minutes

- initial 2009 fleet of 20 LRT vehicles

Operations & Maintenance Centre

- located in Segment 4 between Bond Street and Lansdowne Drive along LRT guideway

- The facility will be used to store, operate and maintain an initial fleet of 21 Light Rail Vehicles.

- Functions include Training, Administration, Operations, Maintenance (vehicle & wayside), Central Control and Stores.

- The required site footprint is approximately 10 acres with a building footprint of around 65,000 square feet.

- An estimated 120 employees will be required upon opening and the ultimate number required to work the LRT may reach 210 people.

- Because of the extended hours of LRT running hours, the OMC will be in operation 24 hours a day.

- The building will be a designed under the LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) guidelines.

- An initial fleet of 21 vehicles will ultimately reach 40 vehicles.

[deasine]

Thanks 'mr. x' for posting this up.  

I actually have a suggestion/question for the Lougheed Skytrain/LRT Station.  Since Lougheed would be one of the terminals of the LRT, which design plan do you think is better?  (I know, bad diagrams but I hope you people would understand, I quickly did it in paint =P)

Personally, I would prefer OptionA since passangers would only have to walk accross the platform to get to VCC/Clark and Broadway Station, transfering to Downtown.

Question #2 ('mx. x' would know that I have asked this question before on a different topic), would the LRT Stations have turnstiles on them?  I remember reading them on the Translink Presentation Boards/PDF Files but don't remember.  

Question #3, which company (probably Bombardier) would be providing the LRT Trains?

Translink isn't focusing on this line as much as the Canada Line although they are hoping to have this line completed in 2009 showing the world that Vancouver has the longest LRT once built (49 km with 210 cars).  

Thanks!

[mr.x]

I too prefer Option A.

2) No, turnstiles will not be installed on the Evergreen Line.  The stations would have an open design; all but one station is at-grade and they'll look like fancy large bus stops with ticket machines, maps, information screens, etc.  

3) I wouldn't be too certain about Bombardier.  Many thought the Bombardier consortium RAVxpress would've won the contract to build, design, and operate the Canada Line....but in the end it was SNC-Lavalin, which is also a Quebec based company.  But on the other hand, the trolley bus contract was awarded to New Flyer - a long time supplier of Translink's bus fleet and a Winnipeg based company - instead of an American bid which would've costed less, would've supplied 40 more buses, and would've delivered the buses a year ahead of schedule.

Toronto is ordering 90 new streetcars from Siemens.

This line was Translink's top transit priority but the provincial government force fed Translink the RAV project.  Nearly $400 million meant for a SkyTrain North East Sector Line is now in the coffers of RAVCo., and the North East Sector Line - still a Translink priority - is downgraded to LRT because of the shortage of funding.  But still today, they're $200 million short and they will go as far as exchanging with the provincial government: giving support for the Gateway Project for Evergreen's $200 million missing piece.

In my opinion, lets just wait a few years and do this line right.  SkyTrain for the Evergreen Line would cost only 25% more than LRT: it's a small price to pay for a huge service difference.  With SkyTrain, you could schedule your trains frequently at a very very low cost....but with LRT, you need manned labour (drivers) and it's expensive which is why there's such a low frequency for this line: peak 6 minute frequency compared to SkyTrain's 120 second frequency.  Not to mention that the current plans for the LRT don't give the trains the complete authority over all traffic lights - at many intersections, cars are given the authority.

You might as well keep the 97 B-Line.

[deasine]

Yeah, I'd prefer SkyTrain over LRT anytime.  I thought it was interesting that they use LRT.  Probably not enough money, hence, going for a cheaper one.  But Skytrain needs probably a certain population or demand.  Currently, the areas are booming but unfortunately, did not meet the demand?  Maybe?  Iunno.

Since the Gateway project is going to commence (probably), I wonder if the LRT would reach all the way to Port Mann Bridge (The Twin of Port Mann would have LRT to Surrey).  That might be a future extension or line.

A long time ago, I think a couple years back, they were going to build a Skytrain (this plan even happened before Millennium Line and Canada Line planning).  It's interesting how the downgraded it to a LRT.  

Whatever it is, I hope that Translink would do a good job on this one.  Especailly the Lougheed Skytrain/LRT Station.  I hope it follows Option A.  If they don't build it that way, I'm going to hate Translink.  I should probably e-mail them and give them that as a suggestion.  Yeah... I'll do that.

Thanks.  Please excuse any spelling/statement errors I have made.

[deasine]

Oh yeah... I forgot to include this in the last one.  What was the Busway and Tramway Project 2011 in the Evergreen Line PDF Files?  That was weird when I saw that PDF File.  I was like 'huh?'

Thanks.  Please excuse any spelling/statement errors I have made in the above statments.

[Guardian]

Welcome to these forums, deasine.

Not to patronize you people over there in the Vancouver area about mass transit, but it is a good idea to have more SkyTrain services to me rather than a LRT system. From where I live, it is going to be inevitable about my city going to convert from its LRT to some form of "subway" because it is growing so rapidly. The LRT system it currently has is so beyond comprehension that I don't know where the city planners got their credentials from. To me, this is so sad that these sort of things are being managed by the fly without real and concrete planning for the future. Trouble is that it keeps on happening, when it should not have to.

[mr.x]

Yeah, I'd prefer SkyTrain over LRT anytime.  I thought it was interesting that they use LRT.  Probably not enough money, hence, going for a cheaper one.  But Skytrain needs probably a certain population or demand.  Currently, the areas are booming but unfortunately, did not meet the demand?  Maybe?  Iunno.

The LRT would have a capacity of 9,000 per hour per direction.  SkyTrain would have 18,000 per hour per direction.

SkyTrain's pros:

1) much higher train frequency

2) short train ride, faster (15 minutes vs. 20+ minutes)

3) more capacity

4) no transfers required at Lougheed; one train ride from VCC.

5) safer.

Since the Gateway project is going to commence (probably), I wonder if the LRT would reach all the way to Port Mann Bridge (The Twin of Port Mann would have LRT to Surrey).  That might be a future extension or line.

They may extend the line in the future, if it gets built, but I doubt politicians would keep their promise on LRT over the Port Mann.  They said the same thing about the Alex Fraser and today, those two lanes meant for LRT are now road.

A long time ago, I think a couple years back, they were going to build a Skytrain (this plan even happened before Millennium Line and Canada Line planning).  It's interesting how the downgraded it to a LRT.  

The final thing that killed SkyTrain was Port Moody's referendum on whether it should be SkyTrain or LRT.  This was perhaps one of the most stupidest moves ever: giving residents NIMBY power instead of what should be an urban planner's/transportation planner's decision.

Whatever it is, I hope that Translink would do a good job on this one.  Especailly the Lougheed Skytrain/LRT Station.  I hope it follows Option A.  If they don't build it that way, I'm going to hate Translink.  I should probably e-mail them and give them that as a suggestion.  Yeah... I'll do that.

At this point, I don't have much faith in Translink: at many intersections, cars are given the priority over the trains as suppose to Calgary, where trains are given the priority at every intersection.

Not to patronize you people over there in the Vancouver area about mass transit, but it is a good idea to have more SkyTrain services to me rather than a LRT system. From where I live, it is going to be inevitable about my city going to convert from its LRT to some form of "subway" because it is growing so rapidly. The LRT system it currently has is so beyond comprehension that I don't know where the city planners got their credentials from. To me, this is so sad that these sort of things are being managed by the fly without real and concrete planning for the future. Trouble is that it keeps on happening, when it should not have to.

Thanks for the advice, and I agree.  BTW, I have to say that Calgary does have an impressive and quite efficient LRT network.  Probably the best in North America.

[Guardian]

Thanks, mr.x. Yes, Calgary does have an effective LRT system now, but because there is so much land available for the city to put one almost all on grade on all lines. But, with the way it is planned now and for the future, I don't think a "bottleneck line" at the downtown core is going to cut it. Never mind the idiots that don't watch where they are going and get into a crash or get killed by these trains at the many possible road-rail and pedestrian-rail intersections in the city.

However, Vancouver is one city that seems to know about using such land effectively for maximum usage without unnecessary waste of it. Therefore, your city should have the kind of mass transit Toronto and Montreal has. In fact, I'm glad that Vancouver City Hall is strong-willed in pushing for more mass transit infrastructure, despite the costs that will placed on all users of it.

[mr.x]

May 08, 2006

Geotechnical Work Begins on Evergreen Line Tunnel

Geotechnical testing in connection with the Evergreen Line will begin the week of May 8. Crews will be testing the sub-surface conditions at two locations around St Johns Street and Charles Street in Port Moody.

The drilling will continue over a ten-day period between 7 AM and 7 PM, in accordance with City of Port Moody bylaws.

There will be no disruption to vehicle or pedestrian traffic, and it is anticipated the noise and vibration will be minimal.

TransLink thanks the public for its patience and understanding during this period.

The Evergreen Line, the Light Rail Transit system linking neighbourhoods between Coquitlam, Port Moody and Burnaby, will begin operation in fall of 2009, with regular service starting in time for the Winter Olympics in 2010.

For more information on the Evergreen Line, please visit the “Rapid Transit Expansion” page at www.translink.bc.ca/plans_projects.

For further information:

Drew Snider

Media Relations -- Transit Operations,

TransLink

604-453-3054 (w)

604-803-3199 ©

[Guardian]

Well, mr.x, it seems that the need for some of the Calgary LRT system to be moved underground may be in most preliminary stages. I have only caught the tail end of a local radio program yesterday that states that, if Calgary continues to grow the way it has been for the past 5 years, then there could be pressure to put the downtown section of the LRT (at least) underground much faster than the anticipated long-term planning of doing so.

However, it is not in any mainstream local city news yet. I tried to look for these news from other sources, but it seems that City Hall, Calgary Transit and others are being mum about the idea right now. Perhaps it could be nothing, but I think it will be inevitable that this course of action will be the next logical step for "large city efficiency."

[deasine]

The Open Houses of the Evergreen Line is coming:

Evergreen Line Open House Dates

Please note that all meetings will be from 6:30 pm to 8:30 pm June 2006

Segment 1

Lougheed Town Centre to Foster Avenue/North Road June 13, 2006

Exec. Plaza, Ballrooms A & B

405 North Road, Coquitlam

Segment 2

Foster Avenue/North Road to Elgin Street at St.Johns June 15, 2006

Seaview Community School, Gymnasium

1215 Cecile Dr., Port Moody

Segment 3

Elgin Street/St.Johns to Ioco Road June 20, 2006

Kyle Centre, Dance Room

125 Kyle Street, Port Moody

Segment 4

Ioco Road to Johnson Street/Mariner Way via Barnet Highway

June 22, 2006

Port Moody City Hall, Galleria

100 Newport Dr., Port Moody

Segment 5

Johnson Street/Mariner Way

to Coquitlam City Hall June 27, 2006

Douglas College

David Lam Campus Atrium

1250 Pinetree Way Coquitlam

[deasine]

The following is the May 26, 2006 version of the article in the Vancouver Sun. There is a June 23, 2006 version but is locked to exclusive online Province subscribers.

Evergreen line in jeopardy

Corrigan: Burnaby mayor, seven others issue joint statement urging province to kick in $230 million

Published: Friday, May 26, 2006

GREATER VANCOUVER - The Evergreen rapid transit line to the northeast sector of Greater Vancouver is in serious jeopardy if the provincial government does not contribute more money to help pay for it, Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan said Thursday.

Corrigan and seven other northeast mayors issued a joint statement urging the province to kick in $230 million -- in addition to $170 million it has already committed -- for the $800-million light rail line.

TransLink, the regional transportation authority, is planning to borrow $400 million for its share of the cost.

The mayors said the Evergreen Line is needed to link some of the region's major growth centres with rapid transit, and said it would "enhance the effectiveness" of the province's $3-billion Gateway Program to build new roads and bridges.

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon was not encouraging.

"My position today is that we will maintain the commitment we have always maintained -- $170 million available for the northeast sector line post-2010," Falcon said. "And that has not changed. I respect their right to ask for more money but I'm not making any commitments in that regard."

TransLink wants to get the line built before the 2010 Winter Games, but has been told by the province its contribution won't be available until after 2010 and TransLink will have to borrow if it wants to build it earlier.

TransLink's financial projections show it will be running operating deficits in the hundreds of millions of dollars by the end of the decade unless it gets more funding.

Corrigan wasn't surprised by Falcon's response.

"That's going to require a cabinet decision and the premier's going to have to be involved," he said.

But he said the province once paid for 100 per cent of major transit projects, and has now pared that down to 20 to 25 per cent.

"That is putting an unreasonable burden on the property taxpayer," Corrigan said. "And it certainly isn't assisting growth and development in the Lower Mainland."

Corrigan said the Evergreen line is in serious jeopardy.

"The project has been in jeopardy since the time they made the decision to go with the RAV Line," he said, referring to the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver line, now called the Canada Line.

TransLink, under pressure from the province, agreed two years ago to make the $2-billion Canada Line its first priority, vaulting it ahead of the northeast line.

Some northeast mayors on TransLink's board voted for the change only after they were promised the northeast line would be built simultaneously. But with the funding shortage, that commitment is looking increasingly shaky.

"This is what I've been saying since they prioritized the RAV Line," Corrigan said, "that it was the northeast sector line that was going to suffer, and that we would find ourselves in a position where there wasn't enough money to do both projects."

He said only public pressure can change the government's mind on its share of the funding, and predicted "that many of the people in those northeast communities will react very strongly."

In addition to Burnaby's Corrigan, the joint statement was endorsed by the mayors of Anmore, Coquitlam, Maple Ridge, New Westminster, Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam and Port Moody.

In a statement, the mayors said, "All mayors agreed that the current estimated funding shortfall of $230 million for the Evergreen transit project is posing a serious threat to its timely implementation."

bboei@png.canwest.com

© The Vancouver Sun 2006

--------------------------------------

Currently, the line is in jepordy. YES!!!! NOT ENOUGH FUNDING?! CANCEL IT. I dun like LRT for this area (only LRT for the Downtown StreetCar). I prefer SkyTrain much more. If they would cancel it, they should use the money to extend the platforms on the Canada Line and/or providing funding to start construction faster on the Millenium Line Extension to Arbutus OR set this funding to provide M-Line extension all the way to UBC.

[pooette]

if the line is cancelled, i gaurentee there won't be rapid transit in the area from another 25 years. it already was pared down. if that is what the public wants in portmoody and port coquitlam, give it to them.

[pooette]

Further more, on the subject of ground vs. elevated, it has to do with what kind of atmosphere you want to create in the process; LRT with a slower, more local atmosphere or skytrain purely for urban efficency.

With LRT, the streetscape will be visibly more public, with public transit overtaking much of the street, previously limited to private cars only. This will open up the street to more interaction and probably a slower speed of traffic, especially in Port Moody.

With Skytrain, though you would probably gain more riders and a quicker trip, two very important items to keep in consideration. But the overhead concrete guidways are not very neighbourhood friendly, and lets face it, they are pretty ugly.

so, don't dismiss the project for you dislike for the format. regardless, either way it will be a great help to the area.

[mr.x]

we're paying $800 million for an LRT line that has the characteristics of a streetcar. unlike the real LRT systems in Calgary and Portland, both of which have complete traffic signal priorities....ours doesn't. in other words, we're building an overpriced streetcar system and for $300 million more we can build SkyTrain which is real "Light RAPID Transit".

of course, when u include inflation the real cost for LRT is $1.2 billion and perhaps $1.4-1.5 billion for SkyTrain.

we should also remember that SkyTrain encourages development around the stations (i.e. Brentwood Station)....LRT also will, but nowhere to the same extent.

[deasine]

Although LRT's do look nicer than the ugly concrete columns that support the SkyTrain Network (just look at Lougheed Highway now =P), a lot of the line is either Overhead or Tunneled. Details:

Segment #1: 40% - 50% Elevated

Segment #2: 80% - 90% Tunneled

Segment #3: 100% At Grade

Segment #4: 5% - 10% Elevated

Segment #5: 15% - 20% Elevated

You are continuing to see concrete columns around the Evergreen Line as well. Doesn't that resemble a SkyTrain. Only Segment 3 - 4 is elevated.

Personally, I don't think there should be any LRT in Vancouver except for the Downtown StreetCar AND MAYBE that weird InterUrban Rail (which I prefer to be LRT).

As what Mr. X said in previous posts in different topics, build SkyTrains (his proposal, SkyTrain to North Van - SFU). My Idea:

Phase I:

SkyTrain from Lonsdale to Capilano Mall (ontop of tracks) to Park Royal turning around to Stanley Park (elevated bridge with 3 lanes going Southbound changing Lions Gate to go only North Bound). SkyTrain going underground once reaching Stanley Park with station there. SkyTrain station at Stanley Park. Continuing underground under Georgia Street and turning underground through Pender Street and then to W Hastings Street. Station at Seymore and Pender.

Phase II (building right after Phase I is complete):

(I'm sure Downtown East Side would be like Yaletown very soon, SkyTrain around region would assist this in happening)

Continuing SkyTrain underground under East Hasting Street and then elevated once reaching Campbell Ave. The elevated portion of line (most) would be on the North Side of Hastings Street, not directly on top of Hastings, similar to the Expo Line how it goes in diagonally and not on top of locatred directly by streets.

Crossing South of Hastings once reaching Hastings Park. Going elevated once reaching Burnaby Moutain, going underground with a station(s) at SFU and/or/maybe a future station at UniverCity.

Phase III:

Continuing underground until start of St. Johns Ave., going elevated with plans like the No.3 Rd Plan, where the elevated is one side and traffic on the other. Last stop stopping at Coquitlam Centre.

Phase IV:

Going where the Southeast Sector route. and ending at Lougheed SkyTrain.

Future Phases:

May extend SkyTrain up Lonsdale.

The ugly columns may not be ugly if City Planning is done well. Renderings of No. 3 Rd look pretty nice although it might be hard to get used to the SkyTrain there.

[Carnell]

Further more, on the subject of ground vs. elevated, it has to do with what kind of atmosphere you want to create in the process; LRT with a slower, more local atmosphere or skytrain purely for urban efficency.

With LRT, the streetscape will be visibly more public, with public transit overtaking much of the street, previously limited to private cars only. This will open up the street to more interaction and probably a slower speed of traffic, especially in Port Moody.

With Skytrain, though you would probably gain more riders and a quicker trip, two very important items to keep in consideration. But the overhead concrete guidways are not very neighbourhood friendly, and lets face it, they are pretty ugly.

so, don't dismiss the project for you dislike for the format. regardless, either way it will be a great help to the area.

A large reason the Transit system was changed to lrt rather than skytrain is because the majority of the people in Port Moody did not like the idea of our small town haveing a quite visible eyesore and speeding up the urbanization process. Many felt there was a need for more transit infrastructure and this was an acceptable comprimise.

[mr.x]

^ Transportation 101. You DO NOT give a referendum on the technology of a rapid transit line......THIS IS AN URBAN PLANNER/TRANSPORTATION PLANNER'S JOB!

[deasine]

That's true. Yes, LRT's doo look nice and they doo look better than the ugly SkyTrain columns, but would one Vancouverite would go all the way to Coquitlam Centre just to see an LRT? Less of a chance. LRT's again look nice but only attract local attention. It's not enough. For SkyTrain, we attract a lot more attention. More people will take SkyTrain than LRT, boosting the number of fares and making up the cost of the M Line and maybe even the E Line. Right now, ridership isn't at it's best for the M Line. We have not reached capacity. We are continuing to pay for construction fees and Running the system fees. As for the E Line, most, again only most of the construction costs have been covered. And there are enough fares ($) running the system.

Also, LRT is not long term. We need a long term solution that will benefit our econmy. Look at it this way; if we had LRT instead of SkyTrain on the E Line, well we are in big trouble now because the LRT will be jammed pack.

There are several ways in settling w/ the eyesore.

1) Greenery. Make the road plan look like No. 3's Rd. Canada Line Plan. Lots of trees and bike lanes will attract more attention, hence more people riding and taking transit.

2)(A)At Grade. Now... people might think I'm an idiot because I said this. No I'm not. At Grade SkyTrain is actually very easy, except that because your SkyTrain isn't elevated, some roads would be. For instance, if SkyTrain ran through a middle of a blvd at grade, than all major intersections would be elevated so that SkyTrain will not interfer with traffic, vice versa. The SkyTrain would then stop at a station underneth the Intersection.

( Still At Grade, except the SkyTrain will just run underground at major intersections, using the Cut-Cover tunnel method. Then, an underground station would be placed. Maybe at times even, the SkyTrain can run underground or even elevated. It's easy. Now having said that both (A) and ( need flowers and greenery and fencing. Fence the SkyTrain with modern and nice black cast iron fences (picture in on Canada Line PDF) with flowers around the fences. This makes the road beautiful and the SkyTrain ride peaceful and serene.

But my At-Grade SkyTrain idea does sound weird and will have to be explained very well.

Either way, the June Open Houses PDF are up. You can see them at http://translink.bc.ca/Plans_Projects/Coqu...ect_reports.asp. They might be down though...

My ( B )'s turned into ('s... forgot the emoticon keyboard shortcuts! =P

[mr.x]

I think i know what you're saying. Only attractive (which are also the more expensive options) and quicker alternatives to the car will commuters leave their automobiles in their garages.

The M-Line is underused only because it's only half finished. NES (phase II) and Broadway-UBC (phase III) have yet to be completed and were actually due for completion this year until the Canada Line became a greater priority.

With LRT, it wouldn't give the same benefits as SkyTrain would being that it's significantly slower and it doesn't spur as much development as SkyTrain. Vancouver lacks roads and we made a commitment to build a competent transit system in the 1970s when we said NO to the big highway project.....therefore, transit must make up for our roads and LRT is a big no.

Another thing, you can bet is that the Lougheed Station SkyTrain-LRT commuter transfer will be extremely congested just like Broadway-Commercial. Another choke point will be the Canada Line's Broadway-City Hall Station, especially if its platform is only 50 metres long.

2) Great concept, but it's just not practicle. Streets would have to be quite far apart for this to be possible and it would be quite expensive to have a guideway roller coaster up and down at-grade.

[deasine]

Yeah... lol! I was thinking about that... How else are you going to build a At Grade SkyTrain. Weren't Richmond City Councillors in favor of At-Grade more than elevated. And IF the Canada Line was to be At Grade in Richmond, how will they do it?

Art is also another way to solve the ugly overhead columns we see. Many metros in the world have a lot of art. In fact, L.A. used 0.5% of the entire Metro project on art itself. Parks are another way to solve the problem. That is what Richmond No. 3 Rd.'s plan is. Greenery. More trees and grass makes the elevated concrete not a focal point. As you can see, Lougheed Highway does not have a lot of Greenery, all the attention is focused there, hence, the eyesore problem. Building underground is the most costy but is the best solution for eyesores.

I used to think roads and highways are the solution to everything. As I joined this forum, I know it isn't. And me myself who was all about highways is more to transit than ever (though I kinda still like the Gateway Project).

LRT's assist the environmental problem. But they clog up traffic. Only a short term solution. SkyTrain's on the other hand is a long term solution. Surely the concrete columns are ugly, but I rather see more concrete in the air than smog.

Now... Mr. X, I know this is off topic, but I was wondering what companies create/make turnstiles for metros like in Hong Kong, BART, etc. Off topic I know =P

[mr.x]

1) It's possible to have the Canada Line run at-grade along No. 3 Road. It's just that it wouldn't be safe at all for both pedestrians and motorists, and would be extremely expensive.......we're talking about automated trains crossing busy intersections!

2) Elevated guideways aren't an eyesore if built correctly......as you said, greenery, public amenities, street furniture, and public art. If the Canada Line was built elevated along Cambie from Queen Elizabeth Park to Marine Drive (along the greenway) because there's absolutely no excuse for it not being built elevated (i hate NIMBYs) along that section, we would've saved $300-400 million on tunnelling. These cost savings would've probably meant much longer station platforms (100 metres able to accommodate a maximum 6-car trains in the future: 20metre-10metre-20metre-20metre-10metre-20metre), more stations and less "future stations", better overall and more distinct station design, and more station entrances.

3) LRT's are a great thing.....and if they move faster by clogging up traffic by removing road lanes to build LRT's own right of way and with its signal priority at intersections, wouldn't that be a good thing? Afterall, we are trying to deter people from driving and take transit instead which would be faster.......your train is skimming along its grass ROW while cars next to it are idling away.

However, total system capacity and frequency is the problem with LRT. Our SkyTrain platforms - with its 80 metre platforms, current train fleet, and a maximum peak frequency of 90 secs - has a maximum operating capacity of 25,000 people per hour per direction. Sure, LRT could do the same but it has been proven to be very unreliable and even unsafe if trains get that long and if trains need to cross busy intersections over and over again every few minutes. This is what's happening if Calgary's C-Train: one of North America's most successful LRT systems however more and more problems are emerging with it as the system gets busier and as the intersections get busier.

Therefore, LRT is great for less dense areas and if it is completely grade separated from traffic (but if then, why not make it automatic). The Evergreen Line however is an exception - unlike the systems in Calgary and Portland, it will NOT have complete traffic signal priority....it will have to wait for traffic lights to change at several intersections! Not to mention that we lack roads here in the GVRD, transit needs to make up for that lack and therefore we need better technology than LRT.

The Evergreen Line's built capacity in 2009 is only 8,000 people per hour per direction. And the Canada Line's capacity is only 15,000 pphpd.

Regarding turnstiles, I'm quite sure a Japanese company made Hong Kong's MTR turnstiles.....not sure about BART.

[deasine]

Now I quickly skimmed and took print screens of the June 2006 Open Houses (finally ready). Look very very nice (although I continue to prefer SkyTrain). Here are some key elements:

Lougheed Station (Segment 1 Key Information):

Although we currently see 2 platforms for the LRT at Lougheed SkyTrain Station, I'm certain there would only be one. It isn't necessary for there to be two. It should be combined platform, in and outbound. Besides, they dont' have enough room for the train to switch and that is a waste of time switching like that. That kind of switching is like the one at Waterfront station, where the SkyTarin enters the station, then leaves, the switches tracks, the comes back. It should be the SkyTrain enters and stays there. Another SkyTrain enters the station using a different track (opposite platform), and then the SkyTrain that was first there leaves. They use this system in the MTR in HK. But htey do have the *. Remember to read it.

Other Segments Key Information:

--------------------

If anyone wants to view all/some reports themselves, click here. If anyone can also post more print screens of different ones, that would be great. I had to quickly do them 'cause I was running out of time (and post good quality ones if possible, mine were ugly 'cause I used paint, which I don't normally use =P. Go PHOTOSHOP!)

[mr.x]

From NEWS 1130:

Tri-cities light rail project could be cancelled

June 23, 2006 - 10:58 am

By: Tamara Slobogean

Click here to find out more!

Light rail to the Tri-cities is being threatened again. Coquitlam is just one of the three cities that's been waiting for light rail for years and the people who live there have been saying for years that they will believe it when they see it. This time the Evergreen Line that finally made it all the way to the public consultation stage is short more than $200 million. Burnaby Mayor and Translink Director Derek Corrigan says the project is on the verge of being cancelled. For people here, the complaints are the same. They say Coquitlam keeps growing and the traffic is just getting worse as more people drive because they're unsatisfied with Transit service. The Evergreen Line would hook Coquitlam up with Skytrain service at Lougheed. It was first supposed to happen years ago but former Premier Glen Clark axed it in favor of the Millennium Line. The latest plans were supposed to have it finished, along with the Canada Line by 2009.

Translink chair has faith in Evergreen Line project's future

June 23, 2006 - 2:20 pm

By: Maria Weisgarber

Click here to find out more!

The Evergreen Line hasn't gone off the rails just yet. Despite concerns the project is on the verge of being shelved due to a budget shortfall, the message from Translink's chair is don't panic. The line is facing a shortfall of about $230 million, prompting Burnaby Mayor and Translink Director Derek Corrigan to say the whole thing's a step away from being called off. Translink chair Malcolm Brodie doesn't think so. He says the notion the project is just a hair's breadth away from being cancelled is an overstatement. Brodie notes they're coming up with a business case for the line, which will come to the next board meeting. He claims it will be very compelling, and feels it will help motivate senior levels of government to support the line. The light rail line is still in the design stage and it's supposed to get rolling in 2009.

I'm surprised the renderings show such dense areas around the stations. Segment 5 looks like adjacent to downtown Vancouver. o_O

[deasine]

Well, notice it says 'future' on the rendering. LOL! How many years later? LOL!

Umm... now I am more in favor of having this project go bye bye. I hope that they can finance the money right now, keep it, and use it in the future with SkyTrain to Coquitlam Central. The M Line should have two extensions, one to UBC (I prefer it to go all the way but according to TransLink, they'll leave it to Arbutus, Granville, Cambie, or Main. But it has to go at least further to than Cambie because it can link up w/ the Canada Line to free up traffic/transit problems at Broadway-Commercial.

Maybe during the M Line Extension, they can even have the Coquitlam Extension happening at the same time... actually, that would be great. Get every construction thing done at the same time. For now, let's just call the Coquitlam extension, the Spirit Line, much better than the Evergreen Line (Evergreen Line is okay to me, not yucky, but I like Spirit more).

Now regarding to the Canada Line (actually, I should post this on the Canada Line section, maybe I will), how will display the Canada Line in the future. I mean, will they display the red Canada Line to both YVR and Vancouver? Like a red like from Waterfront down Yaletown, down Cambie, and then this same red line goes to YVR and Richmond? I think that would confuse many. Example:

/------------- Richmond

Waterfront -------------------

\

YVR

Do you think they would use two seperate colours, like Orange and Red for example and call the orange one YVR Line, or will they use one same colour?

***MY DIAGRAM FAILED, SORRY...