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Well, it‘s true, when you look at sustainability with most venues existing and many being used for high level competition regularly, plus the area is not really bigger than metro LA or Brisbane/SEQ. Of course, there‘s still the athletics stadium issue…

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Is it fair to say though that although the athletics stadium is clearly a big problem to have, it's the only major infrastructure problem RR faces? 

PS it was lovely to see Munich shining in proper weather today. Perfect ending too with German gold in front of the full crowd. Hopefully it inspires Germany to finally get a bid over the line :)

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6 hours ago, iceman530 said:

So is the Ruhr bid basically the Madrid bid with the same weakness:  the stadium?

I don‘t know all the details about Madrid, but they might have to build more still? And RR could even have all football venues close by and not spread out over the country.

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6 hours ago, yoshi said:

Is it fair to say though that although the athletics stadium is clearly a big problem to have, it's the only major infrastructure problem RR faces? 

PS it was lovely to see Munich shining in proper weather today. Perfect ending too with German gold in front of the full crowd. Hopefully it inspires Germany to finally get a bid over the line :)

Yes, great ending, it was all a very positive experience, though I could have done without one „positive“ news that made me miss the last three days (hello Covid).

Olympic bid is being discussed with increased intensity in the media now, but the main arguments on either side are not really new. Munich 2022 was a great success not the least because it had free entry to some events, open spaces around the venues and local catering offers - none of which the IOC would allow as it currently stands.

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Hmm...so is there a risk this will actually harden attitudes toward the IOC, by showing up many of their restrictions as unnecessary? I feel like Germany could really do with being the only bidder for an Olympics, so they can set some of the terms, would make the Olympics better for everyone if some of the rules got dumped. All the more reason to get yourselves into dialogue quickly! :)

Edit - that is a truly terrible time to get a positive test, get well soon :( 

Edited by yoshi
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Uh oh…Marion Schöne, the CEO of Munich Olympiapark really puts the dirty laundry out in an interview today (paywalled in German, so not posting the link).

Essentially, while the 10 days were a success, before the event she had huge trouble with some national and European federations and the demands they have (are they all IOC mini-Fencing 1976es or what???).

In particular, the German rowing, canoe and athletics feds were called out for actively throwing sticks at the organisers as well as European Athletics for OTT VIP demands (e.g. the President can‘t drive around in an e-car! 2000 VIP tickets per day not enough!). And European Swimming apparently made no serious attempt at all to discuss inclusion, though organisers tried to accomodate whatever was possible.

So even behind the glitzy light-hearted success that the EC surely were, there were the usual functionary infightings. And that wasn‘t even the IOC to deal with - do people really wonder why the general German public (as opposed to sports officials, politicians and economy leaders) is sceptical about an Olympic bid?

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Oh dear...tbf I do wonder how much of the IOC demands are IOC demands and how much are federation demands. What kind of sticks can one federation throw?! Athletics sounds very demanding, how many VIPs have they got and why does the president want a car at all? If I was president I'd be happy to use the U Bahn :P I don't see why swimming wanted nothing to do with it, although I assume whatever the reason is it's the same as athletics next time. In a way I guess the IOC would be easier to deal with because there's only one of it...

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On 8/22/2022 at 12:40 AM, yoshi said:

Is it fair to say though that although the athletics stadium is clearly a big problem to have, it's the only major infrastructure problem RR faces? 

i think that the athletics stadium is a very creativd-difficult-element, but the germans can create something very special and can work on creative ideas..  for example the 2022 world-cup stadium in eugene/usa (more then a month ago).. how an university stadium is revamped into a vey interesting-green stadium.. also in terms of lighted-transparant-engineering

i had the opportunity to look at the RRC 2032 bidbook, (or rather catalogue) and they are saying that whole thd region counts more then 500.000 students, that means that there are more then a lot of universities whereby they could observe whats possible in that area.. in that case they could choose the best university-stadium for revamp and legacy.. 

could we named it as the eugene-model yes or no?

note: the letter C in RRC sounds weird to me, because the rhein-rhur-(gebiet) is not a city but more a gradations that creates an agglomeration with a lot of green spaces.. i live in belgian-limbourgh and im almost 10-20 times in a year visiting this region, where i have friends and using more (the state of the art) düsseldorf airport frequently, btw went to all the 3 main airports, and its a region where the infrastructure is fluent on all levels.

imho the naming would fit as example  "RR 2032" - "Rhein-Rhur 2032" (without the using of the word 'city')

 

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I assume it'd be called Rhein Ruhr 2036. It's not one city, but a lot of cities that are near each other (I think 14ish?) but at the same time it's nowhere near all of NRW. Plus as a non German, I'd say that Ruhr is quite a common shorthand for at least everything between Duisburg and Dortmund already. I read the 2032 website FAQ and they mention the stadium as a problem - but they mention the possibility of a new one as an athletics legacy, what with it being the biggest urban area in Germany - presumably a slightly bigger version of Alexander Stadium. That makes sense to me, a permanent 20-30k stadium - the nearest like that ATM is probably Amsterdam...

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Outside of the challenging task of getting a Rhine Rhur bid passed one or more referendums, yes, the region faces the same problem as Madrid and the failed HM urg bid, the stadium conundrum. If it's going to be Rhine Rhur, the most cost effective option is using Olympiastadion in Munich. Germany has the rail links to minimize travel times. It's already shown it can handle top notch athletics events and it's an opportunity to cement it's legacy even further. 

A smaller athletics stadium like the one Birmingham used for the CWGs or Eugene for the world's is not feasible. A bid using stadium of those sizes wouldn't beat out the likes of Rome or Shanghai. The evidence continues to mount as well against building a so-called temporary stadium and scaling it back from something like 70,000 to 30,000. Hungary's athletics stadium was supposed to have 60,000 for the world's before being scaled back to 30,000 now the temporary seating only brings it to 40,000. It just simply isn't the cost effective logical solution it was thought to be. Qatar's WC stadiums are the latest proof.

Even if a German football club wanted a new stadium I highly doubt they'd accept one with an athletics track.

 

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Even with high speed trains, it takes at least over four hours from Munich to Cologne/Bonn, the nearest of the RR involved cities.

And don‘t get me started on the reliability of our trains (or just ask Julie Delpy https://then24.com/2022/08/28/deutsche-bahn-bitter-verdict-from-world-star-worst-train-system-on-the-planet/).

Apart from regional animosities, if such a suggestion came from RR, Munich would probably say „well, then we can do the rest as well“. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, yoshi said:

2034? Winter Games back on the cards? The IOC would certainly be happy, as long as it gets through Garmisch. 

I’ll believe it when I see it.

But then SLC would really need to be out of the way (i.e. get 2030 instead of the corruption swamp, sorry, Sapporo).

Munich officials were not over-enthusiastic about another Olympic bid even in the wake of the Euro Champs euphoria. We have Bavarian elections here next autumn and a conservative-Green coalition (as in North-Rhine Westphalia now) is a potential outcome. Probably not much happening before then - back in 2013, the current Green leader was very much against the 2022 bid (but not all in her party agreed).

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  • 4 weeks later...

Germany 2036 - Rhine Rhur

IOC CONFIRMATION:    New Norm Host Selection Process

10 COUNTRIES CONFIRMED TO BE IN CONTINUOUS DIALOGUE WITH THE INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE FOR THE 2036 SUMMER GAMES

Germany is believed to be one of the ten countries.

This report below from Inside The Games this afternoon:

 

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Hosting the World University Games in 2025 and using existing venues will certainly help Rhine-Rhur’s case for an Olympic and Paralympic Games:

“Organisers have also pointed to 20 of the 21 sports facilities being preexisting as an example of the event's sustainability bona fides, plus the public transport network between host cities Bochum, Duisburg, Düsseldorf, Essen and Mülheim.”

 

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16 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Yeah, especially as many of those venues are not fit for Olympics use…

 

2 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Really ?   Which venues exactly are fit for the University Games but not fit for the Olympics ?

A total of 18 sports will be contested at the 2025 Rhine-Rhur University Games, including their three optional ones:

fxfILWC.jpg

 

So let me get this right, you’re actualky saying that Rhine-Rhur, the region who wanted to host the 2032 Summer Olympic and Paralympics, and now hosting the 2025 Summer University Games has venues which are not up to standard ?

As I asked, pray tell, which 2025 SUG venues exactly do you think will harm Rhine-Rhur’s Olympic aspirations for 2036?

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