venuedesignlover Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 4 minutes ago, FYI said: No, London's mayor seems to be the one interested in 2040 (or at least likes to "talk" about it). I thought his whole thing was an Olympics in the 2040s, not necessarily 2040. London 2048 seems nice considering the centennial. Quote
StefanMUC Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 21 minutes ago, venuedesignlover said: Is Madrid also interested in 2040? Madrid has long been the bridesmaid but I honestly think 2040 is Germany’s to lose. If not Ahmedabad 2036 then I’m hoping Istanbul 2036! Very picturesque and Olympics worthy city with a lot of history, global significance, and existing venues. The IOC needs to tell India to bid with Mumbai or Delhi in order to win…but with the new norm I really don’t see them doing that. If Istanbul gets 2036, there won‘t be another European city getting 2040. Same logic when Munich 2018 was told by then FIS President Gianfranco Kasper that Sochi was in Europe too and they wouldn‘t do two in a row on same continent (famous last words! RIP Gianfranco!). And that was for winter with much less geographical options than for summer. Quote
FYI Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 15 minutes ago, venuedesignlover said: I thought his whole thing was an Olympics in the 2040s, not necessarily 2040. https://gamesbids.com/eng/summer-olympic-bids/now-re-elected-will-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-deliver-promised-2040-olympic-games-bid/ 16 minutes ago, venuedesignlover said: London 2048 seems nice considering the centennial. I wouldn’t get too wrapped up in centennial aspects of this, considering L.A. 2028 is just missing the centennial of their first hosting by four years. Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 23 minutes ago, FYI said: https://gamesbids.com/eng/summer-olympic-bids/now-re-elected-will-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-deliver-promised-2040-olympic-games-bid/ I wouldn’t get too wrapped up in centennial aspects of this, considering L.A. 2028 is just missing the centennial of their first hosting by four years. Not really into the whole centennial thing, just thought it makes sense for London to bid in 2048 considering that aspect as well. Also, thank you for clarifying, but I remember reading somewhere that its in the UK’s national sports agenda to host the games again in the 2040s, not necessarily 2040. I feel like the mayor just brought that up to get re elected, unless he is actually echoing a national sports push to host in the year 2040, not the decade. 31 minutes ago, StefanMUC said: If Istanbul gets 2036, there won‘t be another European city getting 2040 Honestly, I’ve always thought of Istanbul as a new frontier for the IOC, rather than part of Europe. It is hosting the European Games in 2027, but I still think the IOC views it as a new frontier because Turkey is still kind of politically and culturally separate from Europe and untested terrain for the Olympics, unlike Western and Eastern Europe. I could easily see Istanbul 2036 to Germany 2040, or Seoul 2036 (if the IOC is not set on 2036 going to a new frontier) to Germany 2040. Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 What German city do we think is best suitable for a bid? I’m thinking Berlin because of international significance, but would not be opposed to Frankfurt or Munich. Frankfurt has the least sports infrastructure out of BMF, Munich has the most, but Berlin wins out I think because of its significance to German reunification and because it’s international image. Would DOSB avoid Munich because of 1972? Rhine-Ruhr and it’s truly regional bid is just not for me Quote
FYI Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 16 minutes ago, venuedesignlover said: Not really into the whole centennial thing, just thought it makes sense for London to bid in 2048 considering that aspect as well. Well, that seems to be the same thing if you think it 'makes sense' for London to consider that aspect as well. That aspect should be one of the last things on a bid city's mind if it's not conducive to wait or rush into a bid just for the sake of a centennial. Just ask Athens 1996 that. 18 minutes ago, venuedesignlover said: I feel like the mayor just brought that up to get re elected, unless he is actually echoing a national sports push to host in the year 2040, not the decade. That's why I also added at least "likes" to talk about it. But considering how the 'new-norm' works these days, it's not that far-fetched either to think that the IOC has at least been in some kind of talks with the U.K. lately about a future hosting. 24 minutes ago, venuedesignlover said: Honestly, I’ve always thought of Istanbul as a new frontier for the IOC, rather than part of Europe. It is hosting the European Games in 2027, but I still think the IOC views it as a new frontier because Turkey is still kind of politically and culturally separate from Europe and untested terrain for the Olympics, unlike Western and Eastern Europe. I could easily see Istanbul 2036 to Germany 2040, One could say the same things about Sochi 2014, another Eurasian location that was a "new frontier" & untested terrain for the Winter Olympics, but as been pointed out, it looks like that aspect still worked against Munich for 2018, despite Russia also being 'kind of' politically & culturally separate from the rest of Europe. BNC could just as easily say, we ticked the European box for 2036 with Istanbul (since the Summer Olympics have never gone more than two cycles outside of Europe). So it's time to go somewhere else for 2040 that's not Europe. Quote
yoshi Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 So would I be right in assuming that that basically means Ahmedabad has been promised 2036 recently & the interested European cities have basically been put on notice for a bid race for 40? Since Ahmedabad would mean Bach has paid 2/3 of his debts with Coates & Ambani (sp?) with only P*tin left which would surely still be impossible even for this IOC - so in a practical sense, his job would be done. Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 31 minutes ago, FYI said: One could say the same things about Sochi 2014, another Eurasian location that was a "new frontier" & untested terrain for the Winter Olympics, but as been pointed out, it looks like that aspect still worked against Munich for 2018 The whole rationale behind choosing Sochi was not that it was a "new frontier", rather that it was a strong bid coming from Russia. It being from Russia is the most important part. The IOC wanted to grant a games to the relatively-new Russian Federation in the same way it wanted to grant an olympics to Beijing- to make it a coming out party of sorts and an acknowledgement of a global superpower. You might argue that this in it of itself is a "new frontier", but the IOC knew they were giving a games to a superpower that had a long and prevalent history with the games, unlike Turkey who has less prevalence in actual sports. Turkey is much more of new frontier than Russia, if Sochi ever was one, making a Sochi to Munich transition actually seem really unrealistic because Sochi was always considered Europe to the IOC, never a new frontier. That being said, you're right, Bach can count Turkey as Europe, but I honestly do not see an incentive for him to do that. Germany and Turkey are also in two separate worlds, and would not come off as bad as a, say, Paris to Berlin Games. Germany 2040 is still a major possibility if 2036 goes to Istanbul. More likely than not, it'll go to Seoul 2036. 39 minutes ago, FYI said: Well, that seems to be the same thing if you think it 'makes sense' for London to consider that aspect as well. Sorry, allow me to clarify. It being the centennial is an added bonus, much like 2024 was for Paris. But not the main decision behind hosting. It fits UK gets to host again in the 2040s, some 30+ years on since 2012. Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 33 minutes ago, yoshi said: So would I be right in assuming that that basically means Ahmedabad has been promised 2036 recently & the interested European cities have basically been put on notice for a bid race for 40? Since Ahmedabad would mean Bach has paid 2/3 of his debts with Coates & Ambani (sp?) with only P*tin left which would surely still be impossible even for this IOC - so in a practical sense, his job would be done. I honestly think, if not Europe, it’ll either be Seoul, Istanbul, or Ahmedabad for 2036. I’m really hoping Ahmedabad loses out and the IOC pressures India for a Delhi or Mumbai bid. I know that’s not going to happen. In that case, 2040 really is Germany’s to lose. I don’t see London or Madrid beating it out though Madrid is way overdue for a games. That leaves us with 2044…the two losers from 2036 or someone new entirely Quote
FYI Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 Quote So would I be right in assuming that that basically means Ahmedabad has been promised 2036 recently & the interested European cities have basically been put on notice for a bid race for 40? Where have you been. You wouldn't be the only one in rightly assuming that, since the tea leaves have been reading that way for quite some time now, & not something that's just developed 'recently'. Perhaps what may be happening recently is that some of these Euro hopefuls are realizing now that 2036 has already been promised somewhere else. Quote
FYI Posted May 19, 2024 Report Posted May 19, 2024 1 hour ago, venuedesignlover said: The whole rationale behind choosing Sochi was not that it was a "new frontier", rather that it was a strong bid coming from Russia. It being from Russia is the most important part. The IOC wanted to grant a games to the relatively-new Russian Federation in the same way it wanted to grant an olympics to Beijing- to make it a coming out party of sorts and an acknowledgement of a global superpower. If you mean "strong bid" in terms of a spending spree, then sure. I also wouldn't classify Russia as a global superpower, not in the same way that China is, & that's what really won it for them (the second time around). Sochi was still a new frontier for the Winter Games, since Russia was still *untested territory*, cause they still had to build everything from scratch. Otherwise, if it was simply due to award the newly Russian Federation, they would've given the Games to Sochi when they tried, but failed, for the 2002 Games. Sochi 2014 was more about giving Russia, a winter sporting power that had never hosted the Winter Olympics before, the chance to do so. And Putin's willingness to spend whatever it took to get it done, is what really won it for them. 1 hour ago, venuedesignlover said: Turkey is much more of new frontier than Russia, if Sochi ever was one, making a Sochi to Munich transition actually seem really unrealistic because Sochi was always considered Europe to the IOC, never a new frontier. That being said, you're right, Bach can count Turkey as Europe, but I honestly do not see an incentive for him to do that. Germany and Turkey are also in two separate worlds, It's all really moot anyway, cause Turkey isn't getting 2036, as much as some here (including myself) are enamored by such an exotic locale. Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 19, 2024 Report Posted May 19, 2024 1 hour ago, FYI said: It's all really moot anyway, cause Turkey isn't getting 2036, as much as some here (including myself) are enamored by such an exotic locale. As am I !!! I would really love Istanbul to host. So culturally and historically significant, so picturesque, really a bridge for the world. 1 hour ago, FYI said: Sochi 2014 was more about giving Russia, a winter sporting power that had never hosted the Winter Olympics before, the chance to do so. Precisely! This type of thinking is exactly why, to the IOC, Sochi was never a new frontier. Rather just a games that had to happen because of Russia's sporting power and it's international presence. Turkey really is like Brazil in terms of sporting power and international presence, making it much more of a new frontier for the games. Sochi was giving the games to an established power. 1 hour ago, FYI said: they tried, but failed, for the 2002 Games. Well we all know that 2002 was Salt Lake's to lose, after that devastating loss for 1998. Really made Salt Lake kind of the frontrunner for 2002. We're also all aware about the bid scandal and bribery that happened to get SLC the games. Not saying that Sochi would have won otherwise, but Salt Lake really had no competition. Which city do we think Germany will bid for 2036? If not Europe, will 2036 go to Ahmedabad, Seoul, or Istanbul? Quote
StefanMUC Posted May 19, 2024 Report Posted May 19, 2024 3 hours ago, venuedesignlover said: Which city do we think Germany will bid for 2036? If not Europe, will 2036 go to Ahmedabad, Seoul, or Istanbul? Let‘s indeed go back to the thread‘s proper topic (instead of discussing 2036 and beyond in general): the German bid. DOSB (and politicians like e.g. Munich mayor) have multiple times stated already said they prefer a combined/national approach over a single city bid. To re-cap the five regions/cities DOSB is in dialogue with: Rhine-Ruhr is no different to LA metro really as a „region“ when it comes to a compact bid, just with more different cities. It has a lot of facilities but it lacks the athletics stadium. Leipzig is LOL and can really only be a supplement in combination with other bids - I think they have a canoe slalom course near, plus of course football stadium/indoor arena. Hamburg also lacks the athletics stadium but it is a beautiful city that has some facilities ready and surfing/sailing venues nearby. Berlin has a lot of facilities, including athletics, and of course is the capital with lots of historical narrative (good and bad). Munich (biased here!) could probably host on its own if there were downscaled venue requirements, as was shown in the 2022 European Championships that re-ignited the bid debate. There is very expressed political support (social dem/green city govt and conservative opposition) to bid (but not on its own), Olympic stadium will be renovated soon, a new indoor arena will open in autumn etc. Also clear that it is the only feasible German winter candidate but because of climate change, the city has ruled it out clearly. As Frankfurt was mentioned: not even in dialogue with DOSB, so clearly not interested. Apart from the airport, I wouldn‘t know what‘s going for them really. More like a bigger Leipzig in the sense of facilities etc. Apart from my own city being involved, my favourite would be a Berlin-Hamburg combo. They‘re within 90 minutes by train and together have basically everything in place. Both have strong NOlympics movements though. 1 Quote
FYI Posted May 19, 2024 Report Posted May 19, 2024 6 hours ago, venuedesignlover said: This type of thinking is exactly why, to the IOC, Sochi was never a new frontier. Rather just a games that had to happen because of Russia's sporting power and it's international presence. Technically speaking, Sochi was a new frontier in the sense that Russia hadn't up to that point, hosted a Winter Olympics before (which was a factor in their win), regardless of their winter sport pedigree. Just like Budapest would be a new frontier, regardless of their sporting prowess at the Summer Olympics. 7 hours ago, venuedesignlover said: Well we all know that 2002 was Salt Lake's to lose, after that devastating loss for 1998. Really made Salt Lake kind of the frontrunner for 2002. ? To use your word, precisely! But you're the one that brought up about the newly Russian Federation. If that was such a factor, then the Russians wouldn't have been so easily dismissed for the 2002 Games regardless, yet they were. Cause that point would've made more sense then, than it did for 2014. 7 hours ago, venuedesignlover said: If not Europe, will 2036 go to Ahmedabad, Seoul, or Istanbul? I already answered that part here.. 8 hours ago, FYI said: It's all really moot anyway, cause Turkey isn't getting 2036, as much as some here (including myself) are enamored by such an exotic locale. Quote
fusilli Posted May 19, 2024 Report Posted May 19, 2024 20 hours ago, venuedesignlover said: Rhine-Ruhr and it’s truly regional bid is just not for me Even Cologne-Dortmund (or whatever they have down there) would sound nicer. And as history repeated itself, must put a cultural-urban center in the digit to make It for the Games. Not a vague, mostly-industrial burgs. Quote
Daze Posted August 2, 2024 Report Posted August 2, 2024 https://www.sportschau.de/olympia/bund-unterstuetzt-deutsche-olympia-bewerbung,olympia-paris-bewerbung-deutschland-100.html Finally! The federal government signed an agreement with the DOSB today, supporting preparations for a German Bid with 7 million € until 2027. Politics prefer 2040, but in the end it is up to the DOSB. Quote
StefanMUC Posted September 28, 2024 Report Posted September 28, 2024 Some updates: While Berlin is making the usual mess out of things by claiming they have most venues ready when some of that stuff is really not usable in current format (rowing on a lake without competition in decades etc), Rhine-Ruhr is in trouble as some of the venue plan for next year‘s FISU University Games fell through and MPs heavily criticised the (mis-)management. That seems to give Munich a slight advantage as main host. Today however Northrhine Westphalian government however announced plans for a „modular athletics stadium“ for 40k. That is the major puzzle piece missing for Rhine-Ruhr („95% ready“, says the state PM), so might be a solution. Several sites are considered for building it, post-Games transformation into housing/offices with park in the middle. Hamburg had a similar idea for 2024 IIRC. Let‘s see if that materialises… Also more and more clear the aim is 2040 with narrative of 50 year unification. High risk if Istanbul would get 2036 of course, but if not still most likely next European in line for 2040. Quote
texan Posted October 1, 2024 Report Posted October 1, 2024 On 9/28/2024 at 6:05 PM, StefanMUC said: Some updates: While Berlin is making the usual mess out of things by claiming they have most venues ready when some of that stuff is really not usable in current format (rowing on a lake without competition in decades etc), Rhine-Ruhr is in trouble as some of the venue plan for next year‘s FISU University Games fell through and MPs heavily criticised the (mis-)management. That seems to give Munich a slight advantage as main host. Today however Northrhine Westphalian government however announced plans for a „modular athletics stadium“ for 40k. That is the major puzzle piece missing for Rhine-Ruhr („95% ready“, says the state PM), so might be a solution. Several sites are considered for building it, post-Games transformation into housing/offices with park in the middle. Hamburg had a similar idea for 2024 IIRC. Let‘s see if that materialises… Also more and more clear the aim is 2040 with narrative of 50 year unification. High risk if Istanbul would get 2036 of course, but if not still most likely next European in line for 2040. The Olympics have never been away from Europe for more than 2 editions. After LA and Brisbane, it should return to Europe (Istanbul). Germany should prepare for 2048. Quote
stryker Posted October 2, 2024 Report Posted October 2, 2024 On 9/28/2024 at 11:05 PM, StefanMUC said: Today however Northrhine Westphalian government however announced plans for a „modular athletics stadium“ for 40k. That is the major puzzle piece missing for Rhine-Ruhr („95% ready“, says the state PM), so might be a solution. Several sites are considered for building it, post-Games transformation into housing/offices with park in the middle. Hamburg had a similar idea for 2024 IIRC. Let‘s see if that materialises… If they are thinking a modular stadium along the lines of what New York did for the T20 Cricket WC that can actually be reassembled for future events (cricket matches in the 2028 Olympics) then this is a viable solution. Please let's hope they are not seriously considering trying to turn an athletics stadium into housing or offices the way Hamburg's proposed 2024 bid did. That's a laughable and frankly unrealistic and expensive proposition. Quote
StefanMUC Posted October 2, 2024 Report Posted October 2, 2024 1 hour ago, stryker said: If they are thinking a modular stadium along the lines of what New York did for the T20 Cricket WC that can actually be reassembled for future events (cricket matches in the 2028 Olympics) then this is a viable solution. Please let's hope they are not seriously considering trying to turn an athletics stadium into housing or offices the way Hamburg's proposed 2024 bid did. That's a laughable and frankly unrealistic and expensive proposition. It sounds like the latter is exactly what they are planning… Quote
Olympian2004 Posted October 5, 2024 Report Posted October 5, 2024 On 10/2/2024 at 10:49 AM, StefanMUC said: It sounds like the latter is exactly what they are planning… I am very sceptical about that Olympic Stadium plan for the Rhine/Ruhr region. You spoke about several locations considered for that stadium, but in the media reports I found, there was only talk about a "still unknown location" or several locations that are being discussed, but weren't disclosed in the media reports. I also could not find any protocol documenting that concept as it has been presented to the sports committee of the North-Rhine Westphalian regional parliament last Tuesday. So it remains to be seen what those potential locations are, but until then, this stadium is a pipe's dream to me. This and the messy Universiade and Berlin situations you mentioned gives me "They just can't do it right" vibes yet again. A "Berliner Zeitung" report this week (sadly, it is only in German) confirmed that feeling for me: While several German regions are still dreaming of getting at least their share in a 2036 or 2040 bid, Indian, Qatari and Turkish lobbyists are already dining with Thomas Bach. If Germany is not careful, it will let also this bid slip through its hands while other countries have long been doing their "homework". 1 Quote
yoshi Posted October 5, 2024 Report Posted October 5, 2024 I guess the problem with the Ruhr is that you need a big athletics stadium for the Olympics but there's no way it'd get used after. All the football teams that'd want a big new stadium already have one (well I guess the Westfalenstadion isn't new but good luck getting Borussia to go to a stadium with a track). There's not even any other sports that could use it like Brisbane has. So really the only way is to do what London originally proposed, make it mostly or even fully modular. Quote
Olympian2004 Posted October 5, 2024 Report Posted October 5, 2024 @yoshi Yes, that is true - and adding to that, athletics has lost so much importance in Germany compared to football, that there are less and less athletics stadiums with even more than just a few hundred or thousand seats. I am just surprised, however, that for the Düsseldorf/Rhine-Ruhr bid for 2012, they still planned to use the Düsseldorf Arena as athletics stadium and wanted to refurbish it with an athletics track somehow. Probably that was only a pipe dream as well and therefore they are now going for a temporary stadium in some random city - probably one of the cities along the Ruhr, since media reports said they want to build that stadium on some industrial wasteland. And by the way: I love my home region (I was born in Duisburg and grew up near Düsseldorf), but an Olympic Stadium located in a city like Bochum, Essen or even Herne, Gelsenkirchen or Duisburg just feels wrong for me. The Olympic Stadium is always one of the focal points of every Olympic Games, and while I find the idea charming to use existing venues and therefore spread out the Olympic Games across the entire Rhine/Ruhr region, it would be quite disappointing to not have that focal point in one of the internationally better known (and also more attractive) cities like Düsseldorf or Cologne. Quote
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