StefanMUC Posted December 5, 2023 Report Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Australian Kiwi said: That's what I don't understand - had Munich 2022 got up on its feet I doubt anyone would have drawn some kind of parallel between it and Bach's presidency. At least he would have got the chance to speak his meaningless motherhood statements fluently for once. I guess Brundage never really did much for the United States - he presided over the great drought of 1932-1984. Pretty sure a part of the No result in the referendum whether to bid for 2022 (which we could have had on a silver plate probably, even considering Oslo and Beijing) was Bach himself. It was just after he became IOC President, and there already was scrutiny about his connections. Quote
Sir Rols Posted December 5, 2023 Report Posted December 5, 2023 10 hours ago, Rob2012 said: I don't think arguing for Berlin 2036 would be an especially difficult thing for the IOC to do. If Germany feels it wants to and decides to bid then I'd hope the IOC would be able to field any questions quite easily. To draw too strong a parallel would be an incredibly bad faith argument from whoever made it and I'd hope the organisation would have Berlin's back if anyone tried it. It'd be a strange situation where an international body is happy to give China a games, or Russia, or if we're including FIFA alongside the IOC Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc, but they're somehow worried about how to handle the PR from Germany because of the number of the year. I'd file that under making excuses. Should Berlin host in 2036, any and all contrast with 1936 will come entirely naturally. It doesn't need to be "spun" or forced in any way, and I really hope nobody would pressure Germany into doing such a thing. In short, Germany 2036 - which would be attended by Generation Alpha - should be treated no differently from any other host city in how it presents its Games imo. I agree “spun” was likely too strong a word. Considering modern Germany’s consistent and, I believe, genuine contrition for the evils of the Third Reich, I think Germans would consider it natural without being felt forced to make another solemn acknowledgement of it at a games that would inevitably draw some commentary on its centennial significance. But those past games should definitely not be an impediment to the democratic Germany of today being “allowed” to host. Again, though, I was a bit non-plussed that old debate point overshadowed what I thought was the main significance of the DOSB’s call for strong political commitment so early in a potential bid’s gestation. That is, the negative affect of the lessons of the two “New Norm” elections on how NOCs are approaching bids. The DOSB is basically asking for a blank cheque of political and financial support for a bid that isn’t even in any firm form yet. It seems that due process, accountability and transparency are being abandoned in the perceived need now to “get in first” and get your Government and public to unequivocally guarantee it, before even being told the details of what they’re committing hemselves to. Quote
Sigh Posted December 5, 2023 Report Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Sir Rols said: Again, though, I was a bit non-plussed that old debate point overshadowed what I thought was the main significance of the DOSB’s call for strong political commitment so early in a potential bid’s gestation. That is, the negative affect of the lessons of the two “New Norm” elections on how NOCs are approaching bids. The DOSB is basically asking for a blank cheque of political and financial support for a bid that isn’t even in any firm form yet. It seems that due process, accountability and transparency are being abandoned in the perceived need now to “get in first” and get your Government and public to unequivocally guarantee it, before even being told the details of what they’re committing hemselves to. I agree that this should have been the main point. The message from Paris was clear: "Get your priorities right!". That DOSB got the message is even more worrying. But you have to admit that it makes things so much simpler if you don't have to bother about boring details such as how to organise the games and, not least, the hoi polloi. Quote
StefanMUC Posted December 6, 2023 Report Posted December 6, 2023 7 hours ago, Sir Rols said: I agree “spun” was likely too strong a word. Considering modern Germany’s consistent and, I believe, genuine contrition for the evils of the Third Reich, I think Germans would consider it natural without being felt forced to make another solemn acknowledgement of it at a games that would inevitably draw some commentary on its centennial significance. But those past games should definitely not be an impediment to the democratic Germany of today being “allowed” to host. I’m afraid current political trends here suggest otherwise. Next year, a court-confirmed fascist is a strong contender to become PM of Thuringia, which was also the first state where the NSDAP grabbed power. And his party is rising in national polls to almost 25% already too. So maybe by the time the 2036 decision will come up, the IOC can go for a Germany under authoritarian, pro-Russian rule, making things easier for them. Quote
AustralianFan Posted December 6, 2023 Author Report Posted December 6, 2023 From Rob: “Still undecided is whether Germany will pursue a Summer Games beginning with the next available edition in 2036 or in 2040, or a possible Winter Games in 2038, 2042 or beyond. Multiple cities are interested in being involved.“ “National Olympic Committees have been feeling more pressure to get organized and engaged with the International Olympic Committee (IOC) early if they intend to host a future Games. A new, informal IOC bid process has no set timelines and the IOC has already demonstrated that it will elect hosts well in advance of typical timelines and without notice.“ Quote
BigVic Posted December 8, 2023 Report Posted December 8, 2023 Munich bid for the 2018 Winter Games and Berlin the 2000 Summer games but both lost out to PyeongChang and Sydney respectively Quote
BigVic Posted December 9, 2023 Report Posted December 9, 2023 Ironically these were the two German cities that previously hosted the Olympics putting their hand up to host a Summer and Winter Games in 2000 and 2018. Quote
StefanMUC Posted March 27, 2024 Report Posted March 27, 2024 So today a survey was released that shows full or at least limited support for a Munich (summer) bid at a total of 64/65%. Especially younger people are more strongly in favour (with older participants only 50% were for it). Together with the recent announcement for the WC Athletics bid, there seems to be some political will to go for it (much to my surprise), though alwayd being stressed that it has to come combined with other German sites as DOSB has wanted it when they launched the new bid process last year. Decision on a German bid likely by the end of that year (by when of course Fencing 1976 has already been courted by Narendra Modi ). 1 Quote
FYI Posted March 27, 2024 Report Posted March 27, 2024 28 minutes ago, StefanMUC said: Decision on a German bid likely by the end of that year (by when of course Fencing 1976 has already been courted by Narendra Modi ). Yeah, it's not what you know, but WHO you know over at B&C's IOC these days. Quote
yoshi Posted March 27, 2024 Report Posted March 27, 2024 Well I won't get hopes up too much but it's encouraging. Is this specific for Munich or is RR still in play? Quote
Roger87 Posted March 28, 2024 Report Posted March 28, 2024 How nationalist is Bach to think he could do a Samaranch even with his now discovered MO? I know cronism and money are powerful, but even people like Samaranch had that love for the country. Quote
FYI Posted March 28, 2024 Report Posted March 28, 2024 21 minutes ago, Roger87 said: How nationalist is Bach to think he could do a Samaranch even with his now discovered MO? I know cronism and money are powerful, but even people like Samaranch had that love for the country. Apparently Bachy is all about me, me, ME (& of course the bone he threw to Coates). I'm really starting to think that Germany shouldn't even bother anymore, not while Bach is still in office anyway. Quote
Australian Kiwi Posted March 28, 2024 Report Posted March 28, 2024 TBH would rather see the next German SOG in Berlin or Hamburg (probably more that I think Munich would be a fabulous Winter host). Quote
StefanMUC Posted March 28, 2024 Report Posted March 28, 2024 6 hours ago, yoshi said: Well I won't get hopes up too much but it's encouraging. Is this specific for Munich or is RR still in play? DOSB held consultations with five regions. That survey is Munich specific, but the plan is still to go with a mix of regions, two or three of them (Munich, RR, Hamburg, Berlin and Leipzig, the latter probably only considering some ball sports venues and a canoe slalom course nearby). 5 hours ago, Roger87 said: How nationalist is Bach to think he could do a Samaranch even with his now discovered MO? I know cronism and money are powerful, but even people like Samaranch had that love for the country. LOL, no because: 5 hours ago, FYI said: Apparently Bachy is all about me, me, ME (& of course the bone he threw to Coates). I'm really starting to think that Germany shouldn't even bother anymore, not while Bach is still in office anyway. Exactly. Without Bach’s Presidency I’m sure Munich 2018 or 2022 would have happened, or RR 2032 had stood a chance. 4 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said: TBH would rather see the next German SOG in Berlin or Hamburg (probably more that I think Munich would be a fabulous Winter host). The winter ship has sailed, this had been clearly stated by the Munich Mayor. Climate change will bring huge challenges to skiing in Bavarian Alps already now and in the next two decades, the timeframe we would need to look at for a winter bid. 1 Quote
Sir Rols Posted March 28, 2024 Report Posted March 28, 2024 2 minutes ago, StefanMUC said: Exactly. Without Bach’s Presidency I’m sure Munich 2018 or 2022 would have happened, or RR 2032 had stood a chance. That’s such a sad irony, that Bach has been a blight on Germany’s Olympic hosting hopes or ambitions. Quote
StefanMUC Posted April 9, 2024 Report Posted April 9, 2024 A new twist in Munich‘s local debate: the conservative opposition in the city council proposes a much faster referendum on a bid 2036/2040 - already tied in with EU elections in June. Of course by then DOSB will not even have decided on the German bid, let alone venue plans etc. so the city government is against the plan (again, all major parties support the bid idea in general) of an early vote. A speaker of the Greens even indicated there‘s no rush as „2036 will likely go to India anyway“ I guess the speeding up suggestion comes from fear of losing momentum now that surveys still show a favourable majority here. More realistic to have a referendum after the concrete German bid proposal is known (and we don‘t even know if Munich will be part of it!) some time in 2025, at the latest together with the German elections next year autumn (unless the ever-fighting coalition gives up early) or even as a stand-alone vote. I still think however the biggest mistake of the referendum on the 2022 bid was to hold it separately from the national elections (September 2013) or the Bavarian elections (October 2013) in November. While parties wanted to keep it out if the election campaigns, also then all major parties including mostly also the Greens, were in favour and with the much higher turnout at the elections, their voters would more likely have fallen into line and the result would have been different. Alas… 1 Quote
FYI Posted April 9, 2024 Report Posted April 9, 2024 1 hour ago, StefanMUC said: A speaker of the Greens even indicated there‘s no rush as „2036 will likely go to India anyway“ Looks like that speaker is already well-versed on the (great) "new-norm" then. 1 Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 17, 2024 Report Posted May 17, 2024 From: https://gamesbids.com/eng/summer-olympic-bids/future-summer-bids/frankfurt-declaration-launches-germanys-bid-to-host-the-olympics-in-summer-or-winter-but-government-support-remains-elusive/ Weikert echoed intentions and concerns during closing remarks at the General Assembly “I think we should do what we ask of our athletes: be ambitious, pursue a big goal, work hard and win in the end.” “We should show our athletes that we have their backs. That we want to give them the home advantage that will make them even more successful. “For this reason and for many other reasons, today we at the DOSB would like to make it unmistakably clear, with great unity and with great confidence: We are going on to the Olympics and Paralympics in Germany. Whether Summer or Winter Games. Whether it’s 2036 or 2040, we won’t back down.” " ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Looks like Germany is really going all in for 2036 or 2040. I think the IOC will probably pick them in one of those years (probably 2040) because Germany, being Germany, is a good, safe, and recognizable host for them. Speaking of IOC decisions, do we think that because of the new selection process, bids are becoming easier to make and less rigorous in general, especially in venue plans? I know much of it is now very secretive and transparent, but what our thoughts? Brisbane, French Alps, and SLC are the only decisions we really have to base this off of. It looks like bid decisions are being made less rigorously in overall plans, but more rigorous on political and public support. But who knows...Brisbane feels like a fluke in decision making for the SOGs...we'll see once 2036 is elected. Quote
StefanMUC Posted May 17, 2024 Report Posted May 17, 2024 Oh, just wanted to write something about news semi-related to the German bid myself: There is trouble with next year's Rhine-Ruhr University Games as the state government of North Rhine-Westphalia (conservative/green coalition) has withdrawn a promised sum of over 7 million EUR for renovation of the water polo venue in Duisburg and it is now unclear if that sport will be part of the event. Of course the state opposition (precisely social-democrats) have criticised this also pointing at the Olympics ambitions on the one hand and now withdrawing funds for what would likely be a nice, if lesser scale, test run event. Also, some reports that the state of Berlin (so not the federal government) has re-purposed about 500k EUR originally foreseen to prepare for a 2036 bid amid some rumours the federal government would rather prefer to focus on 2040 to instead of celebrating 100 years of learning from the past in 1936 use 2040 to celebrate 50 years of re-unification. Which actually would be a good narrative which I completely had not thought about TBH. But that would of course require 2036 to indeed go to somewhere like Fencing 1976's new favourite buddy in India. In what is probably minor news but against the background of the inner-German bidding race (if you want to call it that) might be interesting, Munich city council approved enlarging the tennis grounds where every year an ATP250 is held so that it can be upgraded to ATP500. Hmm... Quote
fusilli Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 Lock Berlin in for 2040 then. The others german options just don't seem as desiderabile. Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 Yeah I’m personally not a fan of Rhine Ruhr, there needs to be one anchor city in my opinion. Maybe Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich. In their current states though, none have most of the venues needed for a games. Munich has the most, but all options require tons of investment. We won’t be seeing a Paris or LA type ready to go games in pretty much any German bid. Would love Germany 2040 (50 years of reunification has way better options than 100 years since 1936). Looks like the DOSB is finally taking advantage of this new bidding procedure and really trying to lock in either 2036 or 2040. Quote
FYI Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 On 5/16/2024 at 10:35 PM, StefanMUC said: But that would of course require 2036 to indeed go to somewhere like Fencing 1976's new favourite buddy in India. In what is probably minor news but against the background of the inner-German bidding race (if you want to call it that) might be interesting, It does seem at least interesting, that there seems to be a shift from 2036 to 2040 from a couple of Euro countries. What could be being heard through the Lausaunne grapevine for all this Euro Olympic talk to being pushed four years later.. Quote
venuedesignlover Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 11 minutes ago, FYI said: It does seem at least interesting, that there seems to be a shift from 2036 to 2040 from a couple of Euro countries. What could be being heard through the Lausaunne grapevine for all this Euro Olympic talk to being pushed four years later.. Is Madrid also interested in 2040? Madrid has long been the bridesmaid but I honestly think 2040 is Germany’s to lose. If not Ahmedabad 2036 then I’m hoping Istanbul 2036! Very picturesque and Olympics worthy city with a lot of history, global significance, and existing venues. The IOC needs to tell India to bid with Mumbai or Delhi in order to win…but with the new norm I really don’t see them doing that. Quote
FYI Posted May 18, 2024 Report Posted May 18, 2024 1 minute ago, venuedesignlover said: Is Madrid also interested in 2040? No, London's mayor seems to be the one interested in 2040 (or at least likes to "talk" about it). Quote
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