Germany 2036

[StefanMUC]

3 hours ago, stryker said:

What are your thoughts on the athletics stadium issue? Olympiastadion in Munich?

It‘s obviously an option with its size and iconic architecture. Berlin has a full roof though, Munich for various reasons will never get full cover. That might be an argument against Munich, at least for athletics.

[StefanMUC]

Fencing 1976 yesterday basically all but killed German ambitions (surprise surprise…) by saying at a discussion in Stuttgart a German bid can only be considered if anyone accredited by the IOC is guaranteed to enter the country. This of course aims at the German govt beng at odds with the IOC/Russia policy and declaring some time ago they would not give visa for Russian/Belarusian athletes for sports competitions here (some -oh the irony! - fencing events were already moved because of that).

Given Bach‘s and the IOC’s „popularity“ at home, there will not be much appetite from politics to change this just to appease Big Leader.

At the same event (not a sports discussion, but a legal forum!), Fencing 1976 (a lawyer!) said when asked about the obviously orchestrated calls from IOC members to extend his term: Rules will always be broken - there‘s laws against burglary and people still do it. (His own comparison!!!) And all discussion about that particular rule just started but would be held internally and fully transparent (oxymoron is not a word known to him I guess, or maybe just the second part of it).

As long as that guy and his gang have anything to say, there will never again be German Olympics clearly.

[Rob2012]

Imagine if they had an actual policy re: Russia that wasn't merely their silly neutral athletes and flag ban stuff reheated.

Then they would be putting more pressure on Russia than they are on Germany, rather than the other way around as is currently the case.

Imagine!

[StefanMUC]

And despite all these challenges, Munich City Council today voted to declare its interest in bidding to the DOSB. For summer only explicitly, and in combination with other region(s), but preferrably as a main anchor (venues, village) in such a combined scenario.

[iceman530]

On 11/8/2023 at 4:21 AM, Rob2012 said:

Imagine if they had an actual policy re: Russia that wasn't merely their silly neutral athletes and flag ban stuff reheated.

Then they would be putting more pressure on Russia than they are on Germany, rather than the other way around as is currently the case.

Imagine!

In my deepest darkest fears, I am still not convinced Russia wont get the 2036 games.  I fear in the eyes of the IOC this is a very realistic possibility still.  If Saudi Arabia can get a WC, Russia can still get an Olympic games awarded.

[cfm Jeremie]

33 minutes ago, iceman530 said:

In my deepest darkest fears, I am still not convinced Russia wont get the 2036 games.  I fear in the eyes of the IOC this is a very realistic possibility still.  If Saudi Arabia can get a WC, Russia can still get an Olympic games awarded.

No way.

With on the one hand, Putin and Chernishenko pratically trading names with Bach every other day, with the creation of the BRICS Games and on the other hand, Bach quietly setting the stage for his reelection, Russia 2036 will not happen.

[StefanMUC]

3 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

And despite all these challenges, Munich City Council today voted to declare its interest in bidding to the DOSB. For summer only explicitly, and in combination with other region(s), but preferrably as a main anchor (venues, village) in such a combined scenario.

Addendum: Forgot to mention that a prerequisite for the actual bid will be a referendum (in the city, there are no nationwide referendums in Germany anyway).

[buzzbees]

Ah I see, yeah that makes sense that there would need to be local support. I'm guessing they'll have to do a good job convincing residents then in any towns that might be bases for events. Do you think the public will be supportive overall or is it hard to say at this point?

[StefanMUC]

If the campaign manages to find the right balance between appealing to the obviously existing love for sports and major events here (see resounding success of European Championships 2022) and distancing itself from the darker corners of the IOC machinery, I can imagine an overall positive result locally. The coalition governing the city is Green/Social Democrat, so even not necessarily pro-Olympics parties are supportive this time around.

But it is a thin line to walk on, and what may buy local support could actually be detrimental to what the IOC wants to have.

[AustralianFan]

Just in.

So ITG are reporting that Berlin’s Mayor is supporting a bid for the 2036 Summer Games.

 

[Sir Rols]

I really wouldn’t put any store in anything from ITG any more, since the Russians bought them, they sacked all the staff and installed a couple of Spanish speakers to just run press releases through Google Translate and post them up as “news”. Such a tragedy to see how low such a great site has fallen. 

Isn’t mayor’s being interested in the games just a given?

 

[FYI]

Berlin would only make sense as the next major European capital to host the Summer Olympics this century (after London & Paris). But "we'll see". 

[StefanMUC]

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

I really wouldn’t put any store in anything from ITG any more, since the Russians bought them, they sacked all the staff and installed a couple of Spanish speakers to just run press releases through Google Translate and post them up as “news”. Such a tragedy to see how low such a great site has fallen. 

Isn’t mayor’s being interested in the games just a given?

 

The discussion forum was the same that happened here last week (see my posts about it further up), so Berlin basically says the same as Munich. Aim is to use only existing or temporary venues.

The historical burden doesn‘t seem to have been mentioned (not surprising, if you want to push for it).

I think with both Berlin and Munich already on board, DOSB will bid (and fail again, also mentioned above why).

There is probably going to be one final forum in Düsseldorf or elsewhere Rhine-Ruhr before a decision is taken which regions will be involved in the bid.

[Roger87]

12 hours ago, FYI said:

Berlin would only make sense as the next major European capital to host the Summer Olympics this century (after London & Paris). But "we'll see". 

Beyond the history of German bids aside, if everything is on board, even the IOC may give some leverage in favour of Berlin for 2036 race... True, if everything aligns.

[Sir Rols]

So it looks like the DOSB has got the memo from Lausanne - get the guarantees first, and quick, and ask questions later

German sport demands Olympic guarantees from government

[Australian Kiwi]

Tbh not crazy about the idea of an Olympics in Germany in 2036. 

It says we can't honour the Greek centenary, but we can Hitler's.

[FYI]

Uhh, that's taking things outta context & being quite melodramatic.

[Sir Rols]

The centenary shouldn’t really matter, but the fact it is so often brought up means it will be a factor. I still think it’ll be spun as a “never again”, “remember the victims of tyranny” type thing.

What to me is more disturbing is the DOSB pressuring for government guarantees before any due diligence - heck not even any step of a concrete plan - is even produced. That’s a total spit in the face of any type of democratic diligence. But it’s the sad knock-on of what the IOC seems to be requiring now - get that support, as quick as possible, before anybody has a chance to consider things, before democracy can spoil things.

[iceman530]

"Never again" has lost its meaning because of Ukraine anyways, so we are really dispensing away with symbolism here.  Its just a number at this point, nothing to be afraid of.  Because well, never again happened again.  Can't put it back in the box so might as well not even be ashamed of it.  If its a good bid, its a good bid.

[Australian Kiwi]

Still doesn't sit well with me. 

Germany hasn't staged one unblemished Olympics so it seems already tarred.

[StefanMUC]

10 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

The centenary shouldn’t really matter, but the fact it is so often brought up means it will be a factor. I still think it’ll be spun as a “never again”, “remember the victims of tyranny” type thing.

What to me is more disturbing is the DOSB pressuring for government guarantees before any due diligence - heck not even any step of a concrete plan - is even produced. That’s a total spit in the face of any type of democratic diligence. But it’s the sad knock-on of what the IOC seems to be requiring now - get that support, as quick as possible, before anybody has a chance to consider things, before democracy can spoil things.

That’s DOSB for you… Government still standing firm on the visa for Russian athletes issue while DOSB has fallen in line with Fencing 1976, who in turn tries to pressure politicians.

This will not go well, and the centenary is the least of reasons why.

[Rob2012]

12 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

The centenary shouldn’t really matter, but the fact it is so often brought up means it will be a factor. I still think it’ll be spun as a “never again”, “remember the victims of tyranny” type thing.

I don't think arguing for Berlin 2036 would be an especially difficult thing for the IOC to do. If Germany feels it wants to and decides to bid then I'd hope the IOC would be able to field any questions quite easily. To draw too strong a parallel would be an incredibly bad faith argument from whoever made it and I'd hope the organisation would have Berlin's back if anyone tried it.

It'd be a strange situation where an international body is happy to give China a games, or Russia, or if we're including FIFA alongside the IOC Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc, but they're somehow worried about how to handle the PR from Germany because of the number of the year. I'd file that under making excuses.

Should Berlin host in 2036, any and all contrast with 1936 will come entirely naturally. It doesn't need to be "spun" or forced in any way, and I really hope nobody would pressure Germany into doing such a thing. In short, Germany 2036 - which would be attended by Generation Alpha - should be treated no differently from any other host city in how it presents its Games imo.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Rob2012

[Rob2012]

1 hour ago, StefanMUC said:

That’s DOSB for you… Government still standing firm on the visa for Russian athletes issue while DOSB has fallen in line with Fencing 1976, who in turn tries to pressure politicians.

This will not go well, and the centenary is the least of reasons why.

Right. It's astonishing how much Bach has turned away his own country. I'm sure if we went back to when he was first elected many of us would've said "ooh, Germany is in with a good shout now!".

[StefanMUC]

42 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

Right. It's astonishing how much Bach has turned away his own country. I'm sure if we went back to when he was first elected many of us would've said "ooh, Germany is in with a good shout now!".

Many maybe, but not the obes who knew that he was never fighting for anything but his own career. He didn’t turn Germany away, he just never cared.

[Australian Kiwi]

That's what I don't understand - had Munich 2022 got up on its feet I doubt anyone would have drawn some kind of parallel between it and Bach's presidency. At least he would have got the chance to speak his meaningless motherhood statements fluently for once. 

I guess Brundage never really did much for the United States - he presided over the great drought of 1932-1984.