StefanMUC Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, yoshi said: Leipzig again?!? I don't quite understand what you're saying there, are they talking to these cities with a view to establishing which is best placed/wants it more or is it to try and get them all together as a single bid - Germany 2036? The plan apparently is to have a spread out bid to avoid building new venues, so the idea of combining Hamburg/Berlin or Rhine-Ruhr with Munich to cover for the athletics stadium might be something they consider. Other than regional sensitivities, I don’t see why Leipzig would feature in any of those plans, but it’s the DOSB. Having no clue is part of their DNA. Quote
yoshi Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 I don't think it's a problem to give Leipzig something if there's a national bid tbh - let the east feel included in it and emphasize the modern Germany/first Olympics since unification aspect of the bid. Only question is what they'd get - I don't know what they've already got for venues. I only thought it was odd because I thought you were talking about a sole Leipzig bid again - Germany would've had a good shot at 2012 with a more suitable candidate. Quote
FYI Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 Ahhh, Leipzig. I remember back then when there were some Leipzig bolsters on here touting how Leipzig was going to run away with 2012 when the DOSB (foolishly) chose them as their candidate. Needless to say, they all disappeared once the IOC gave them the old heave-ho from the 2012 short-list. lol Quote
StefanMUC Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 23 minutes ago, yoshi said: I don't think it's a problem to give Leipzig something if there's a national bid tbh - let the east feel included in it and emphasize the modern Germany/first Olympics since unification aspect of the bid. Only question is what they'd get - I don't know what they've already got for venues. I only thought it was odd because I thought you were talking about a sole Leipzig bid again - Germany would've had a good shot at 2012 with a more suitable candidate. They surely could host football matches Other than that, their expo area probably could be used and I think there’s a canoe slalom course nearby (though Germany’s prime course is certainly the one in Augsburg, built for 72 and regularly hosting world champs). The national 2012 bid race was another level of cringe. Hamburg and Düsseldorf (for Rhine-Ruhr) were probably the more serious candidates, Frankfurt already dubious, Stuttgart even on a national level more of a second tier city (still in our top 10 surely, but a very strong economy as its main asset) and then there was Leipzig playing the “let’s build the East” card and some tearjerking moments in the campaign. Of course the clueless NOC (not yet merged with DSB into DOSB) went for this and Bach, not yet officially in charge, sat idly by as the disaster unfolded, as he always does. Quote
AustralianFan Posted July 7, 2023 Author Report Posted July 7, 2023 “A potential Olympic and Paralympic Games bid is supported by the German Federal Government, whose State Secretary at the Ministry of the Interior and Community Juliane Seifert claimed "Germany is capable of hosting major sporting events" which are "beneficial to our country". DOSB seeks to advance German Olympic bid by launching new public dialogue process - ITG - 7/7/23 Quote
yoshi Posted July 7, 2023 Report Posted July 7, 2023 2 hours ago, StefanMUC said: They surely could host football matches Other than that, their expo area probably could be used and I think there’s a canoe slalom course nearby (though Germany’s prime course is certainly the one in Augsburg, built for 72 and regularly hosting world champs). The national 2012 bid race was another level of cringe. Hamburg and Düsseldorf (for Rhine-Ruhr) were probably the more serious candidates, Frankfurt already dubious, Stuttgart even on a national level more of a second tier city (still in our top 10 surely, but a very strong economy as its main asset) and then there was Leipzig playing the “let’s build the East” card and some tearjerking moments in the campaign. Of course the clueless NOC (not yet merged with DSB into DOSB) went for this and Bach, not yet officially in charge, sat idly by as the disaster unfolded, as he always does. I didn't know you'd had a domestic bid race for 2012, I think if Munich or particularly Berlin had been in that it might've had enough to beat Paris and London. I'm not German so it's none of my business but I'd still have thought your best bet is to utilise the new model of a regional Games (assuming the IOC keep that for cities not called Brisbane) & use the area that's tailor made for that - Rhine Ruhr. The biggest problem there is the stadium - it's a long way from Munich and Berlin. But although I know the Bundesliga clubs are all fine, I'd still imagine at least one of the lower football teams there must have a stadium so bad they'd be willing to take a track in exchange for an upgrade... Quote
iceman530 Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 Istanbul and Budapest are palming their hands gingerly as the only "strong" candidate left is South Korea 1 Quote
StefanMUC Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 6 hours ago, yoshi said: I didn't know you'd had a domestic bid race for 2012, I think if Munich or particularly Berlin had been in that it might've had enough to beat Paris and London. I'm not German so it's none of my business but I'd still have thought your best bet is to utilise the new model of a regional Games (assuming the IOC keep that for cities not called Brisbane) & use the area that's tailor made for that - Rhine Ruhr. The biggest problem there is the stadium - it's a long way from Munich and Berlin. But although I know the Bundesliga clubs are all fine, I'd still imagine at least one of the lower football teams there must have a stadium so bad they'd be willing to take a track in exchange for an upgrade... We’ve had this debate before: Wattenscheid (former Bundesliga, just relegated again to 5th division) has a track stadium which will host the athletics universiade events 2025. It is perfectly suitable for that and an expansion to Olympic size makes zero sense (if at all possible on the site) for the club and the city (Bochum, as Wattenscheid has been incorporated in the 70s). Even a temporary extension would be way too expensive. And the other one with a track I think is in Oberhausen, also former Bundesliga but now in 4th and perpetually failing to get back to old glory. Also there, even if space is available to renovate and extend, there’s really no chance of getting it filled up regularly afterwards. No chance any other of the lower clubs (Duisburg, RW Essen, Uerdingen…) will accept a tracked stadium, some have only recently renovated theirs anyway. Also important to note that many Rhine-Ruhr cities are actually struggling economically (not Düsseldorf for sure though), so any such investment would be a very hard sell on the local population, which BTW is also very much parish-minded (“why does city X get this and we don’t” etc), which politicians try to overcome by slicing the Olympic cake into many local pieces. Quote
yoshi Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 So does that mean there's basically no way a Rhine Ruhr bid can have its main stadium in the region? Is there really only Munich and Berlin as practical stadium options, because they're both a long way from Rhine Ruhr, especially the northern and western parts of the region... Quote
StefanMUC Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 49 minutes ago, yoshi said: So does that mean there's basically no way a Rhine Ruhr bid can have its main stadium in the region? Is there really only Munich and Berlin as practical stadium options, because they're both a long way from Rhine Ruhr, especially the northern and western parts of the region... If they’re taking “sustainability” seriously, there’s no way indeed unless the IOC would be happy with a refurbished 20-25 k stadium for athletics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederrheinstadion https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohrheidestadion - this is the universiade 2025 venue and apparently the only stadium in North Rhine-Westphalia that is certified to host German athletics championships (which ironically are held in Kassel, Hessen - no Olympic ambitions for sure! - this weekend while most other major Olympic sports are bundling theirs together at the same time in the Rhine-Ruhr area) Speaking of the German athletics championships venues, I just checked the list and nowadays only smaller size stadiums remain - with the exception of the two Olympic hosts of course and Nuremberg. But that is again far away from Rhine-Ruhr and just 1.5 train trip from Munich, so no need for a bid. Quote
yoshi Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 Interesting that most German sports are bundling their championships together - is that almost like a feasibility study for a hypothetical Rhine Ruhr Olympics? I wonder why they've chosen Kassel though rather than the Universiade stadium in Bochum... Nuremberg is a little bit closer to NRW than Munich is but not much as you say. I don't know which of the big two a bid would choose, I guess it'd depend on whether the main set of venues clusters towards the Cologne end, closer to Munich or the Dortmund end closer to Berlin. If it really makes that much difference. Quote
StefanMUC Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 1 hour ago, yoshi said: Interesting that most German sports are bundling their championships together - is that almost like a feasibility study for a hypothetical Rhine Ruhr Olympics? I wonder why they've chosen Kassel though rather than the Universiade stadium in Bochum... Nuremberg is a little bit closer to NRW than Munich is but not much as you say. I don't know which of the big two a bid would choose, I guess it'd depend on whether the main set of venues clusters towards the Cologne end, closer to Munich or the Dortmund end closer to Berlin. If it really makes that much difference. Kassel is getting its athletics turn every couple of years, and the bundling has actually happened a few times already, 2019 and 2022 in Berlin, 2020 Rhine-Ruhr was cancelled obviously, and 2021 both shared it. 2025 is already allocated to Dresden. The label for this is “The Finals” (Die Finals), concept was born from European Championships in Glasgow to create more (TV) visibility for those sports and our public broadcasters are very much supporting it. So not necessarily a test run for an Olympic bid. I think the most feasible would be Hamburg/Berlin - I recently used the train between the two and it was really smooth in about 90 minutes only (the rest of the journey was a nightmare, but that’s another story). Together they should basically have almost all the venues too, also much closer to the sea for open water sports. You could even have the bike race connect the two. 1 Quote
yoshi Posted July 8, 2023 Report Posted July 8, 2023 1 hour ago, StefanMUC said: Kassel is getting its athletics turn every couple of years, and the bundling has actually happened a few times already, 2019 and 2022 in Berlin, 2020 Rhine-Ruhr was cancelled obviously, and 2021 both shared it. 2025 is already allocated to Dresden. The label for this is “The Finals” (Die Finals), concept was born from European Championships in Glasgow to create more (TV) visibility for those sports and our public broadcasters are very much supporting it. So not necessarily a test run for an Olympic bid. I think the most feasible would be Hamburg/Berlin - I recently used the train between the two and it was really smooth in about 90 minutes only (the rest of the journey was a nightmare, but that’s another story). Together they should basically have almost all the venues too, also much closer to the sea for open water sports. You could even have the bike race connect the two. I like that idea of the finals. That'd be good to have a similar thing here, I know the British athletics championships are happening now but if it was bundled with a load of others it could get some proper attention :). I did wonder about Hamburg and Berlin together, it's not a journey I've taken but they look close - 90 minutes is bearable for sure. I guess Kiel would be used for sailing. Are the two cities rivals, would there be a problem dividing it up? (Also how were the Special Olympics received in Berlin? Could they go it alone?) Quote
StefanMUC Posted July 9, 2023 Report Posted July 9, 2023 Special Olympics were very well received, but obviously for that noone needed to go to bed with the IOC. Berlin could do it alone with some investment, but political climate in the city would probably not allow it. The new conservative/social democrat coalition there has just announced some drastic cost cutting for the various districts. You can imagine how this would influence a bid referendum. Quote
yoshi Posted July 9, 2023 Report Posted July 9, 2023 Yeah I can't see that looking too good. Tbh I've never really thought of Berlin as a serious candidate, because of the opposition that everything tends to meet there. I guess that means the only real options for a one-city/conurbation bid are Rhine Ruhr with Munich's stadium, or Munich does the lot. That or Rhine Ruhr asks the Netherlands nicely if Amsterdam's stadium is open Quote
Australian Kiwi Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 I'm all for a third Germany Summer Olympics - but 2036 is a PR nightmare. No thanks. Quote
FYI Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 That’s being quite melodramatic. 2036 is ripe for Europe, & the Germans should go for it if they’re really interested. Showcasing the NEW & democratic Germany of the 21st century. 1 Quote
StefanMUC Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 2 hours ago, FYI said: That’s being quite melodramatic. 2036 is ripe for Europe, & the Germans should go for it if they’re really interested. Showcasing the NEW & democratic Germany of the 21st century. You mean the Germany where a party with an openly fascist agenda is rocketing up the polls right now already being in 2nd place with 20%? We’re going backwards in time here, not the least because like 100 years ago so called conservatives and their media allies rather demonise progressives than attack the real enemies of democracy. Quote
FYI Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 Then it would appear that there is a bigger problem than just 'a PR nightmare' for a German 2036 bid. I guess, though, one can start to lose optimism in instances like those, since unfortunately it's not just Germany facing those same types of threats. So hopefully by the time L.A. 2028 comes around, it will still be under a celebration of democracy. 1 Quote
Sigh Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 6 hours ago, FYI said: Then it would appear that there is a bigger problem than just 'a PR nightmare' for a German 2036 bid. I guess, though, one can start to lose optimism in instances like those, since unfortunately it's not just Germany facing those same types of threats. So hopefully by the time L.A. 2028 comes around, it will still be under a celebration of democracy. At the end of the second, but not necessarily the last, Trump presidential mandate? (Consitutions can be changed) Quote
AustralianFan Posted July 13, 2023 Author Report Posted July 13, 2023 Germany: Winter Games 2038 or 2042 or Summer Games 2036 or 2040 ? “The German Olympic Sports Federation announced a decision will be made next year whether to bid for the 2038 or 2042 Winter Games, or for the 2036 or 2040 Summer Games, after gathering input through the initiative called, ‘Your ideas. Your Games’.” Quote
StefanMUC Posted November 6, 2023 Report Posted November 6, 2023 So DOSB is doing a tour of the interested cities/regions with podium discussions open to the public. Yesterday‘s stop was here - had no time to go as I was travelling (more on that trip further down), but it seems with an audience of 250 at a smaller venue in Olympiapark (Kleine Olympiahalle, built just a few years ago), the interest was much bigger than at previous stops Hamburg and - sigh - Leipzig. Overall summary in today‘s paper: Bidding yes (likely partnering with another region), if it can be done sustainably and not just at IOC conditions - and a certain fatalism that India has 2036 in the bag (not sure, but wouldn‘t rule it out if the IOC ignores its own calendar rules). Also clear that the Mayor does not support another winter bid because of rising temperatures. Now for my travel: not on Olympic potential purpose, but I spent a week around Cologne and later Ruhr area, so really the heart of the 2032 idea. Public transport was surprisingly a lottery and would need to improve quite a bit - hardly any of our trains/trams/buses came as scheduled (or at all). Düsseldorf‘s Rhine beach for beach volleyball would be brilliant though, but don‘t expect much picturesque charm otherwise (not that I did, but still…). Quote
stryker Posted November 6, 2023 Report Posted November 6, 2023 4 hours ago, StefanMUC said: So DOSB is doing a tour of the interested cities/regions with podium discussions open to the public. Yesterday‘s stop was here - had no time to go as I was travelling (more on that trip further down), but it seems with an audience of 250 at a smaller venue in Olympiapark (Kleine Olympiahalle, built just a few years ago), the interest was much bigger than at previous stops Hamburg and - sigh - Leipzig. Overall summary in today‘s paper: Bidding yes (likely partnering with another region), if it can be done sustainably and not just at IOC conditions - and a certain fatalism that India has 2036 in the bag (not sure, but wouldn‘t rule it out if the IOC ignores its own calendar rules). Also clear that the Mayor does not support another winter bid because of rising temperatures. Now for my travel: not on Olympic potential purpose, but I spent a week around Cologne and later Ruhr area, so really the heart of the 2032 idea. Public transport was surprisingly a lottery and would need to improve quite a bit - hardly any of our trains/trams/buses came as scheduled (or at all). Düsseldorf‘s Rhine beach for beach volleyball would be brilliant though, but don‘t expect much picturesque charm otherwise (not that I did, but still…). What are your thoughts on the athletics stadium issue? Olympiastadion in Munich? Quote
FYI Posted November 6, 2023 Report Posted November 6, 2023 6 hours ago, StefanMUC said: and - sigh - Leipzig. Like you said the other day, some people never learn! 6 hours ago, StefanMUC said: and a certain fatalism that India has 2036 in the bag (not sure, but wouldn‘t rule it out if the IOC ignores its own calendar rules). IDK, I still say that 2036 is (Western) Europe's to lose, providing of course that there's a viable bid. If not, then I'd say China or South Korea. The one main obstacle for an Indian bid is the mandated time-frame (which of course they never seem to address when talking about a bid), but yeah, of course the IOC can break their own rules, but then again, how would the broadcasters take it, since that rule is mainly there for them ITFP. But since 'rubber-stamping' for 2036 is still a ways away, who knows how the broadcasting table will be like by then anyway. 6 hours ago, StefanMUC said: Also clear that the Mayor does not support another winter bid because of rising temperatures. Yes, concerning, isn't it. Quote
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