Germany 2036

[StefanMUC]

I‘m gonna spare you the details, but DOSB is once more in turmoil thanks to incompetence, political ambition and in-fighting. This will of course further delay (and derail) any German bid for 2036/2040.

And on top, Fencing 1976 said in an interview with Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung that before any bid would stand a chance, the German government would have to acknowledge the autonomy of sports (a thinly veiled reference to when the govt refused visa for „independent“ Russian athletes ahead of an Olympic Fencing - of all sports!!! - qualifier that was eventually moved out of Germany because of this) again.

It‘s pretty clear neither 2036 nor 2040 will happen here sadly. But I‘m not surprised.

[yoshi]

5 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

I‘m gonna spare you the details, but DOSB is once more in turmoil thanks to incompetence, political ambition and in-fighting. This will of course further delay (and derail) any German bid for 2036/2040.

And on top, Fencing 1976 said in an interview with Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung that before any bid would stand a chance, the German government would have to acknowledge the autonomy of sports (a thinly veiled reference to when the govt refused visa for „independent“ Russian athletes ahead of an Olympic Fencing - of all sports!!! - qualifier that was eventually moved out of Germany because of this) again.

It‘s pretty clear neither 2036 nor 2040 will happen here sadly. But I‘m not surprised.

Is there any link to any of the details? The last I heard from the DOSB it sounded like they were just starting to get their act together...

[StefanMUC]

5 hours ago, yoshi said:

Is there any link to any of the details? The last I heard from the DOSB it sounded like they were just starting to get their act together...

Only paywalled things at Spiegel Online (in German) and The Inquistor (same content in English, both by Jens Weinreich):
https://www.spiegel.de/sport/dosb-vorstandschef-gefeuert-streit-an-der-spitze-eskaliert-a-ccc7f7ac-c835-49c9-92d8-725f01a4e909

The CEO got fired btw because he did not disclose to the board that he is going to stand as the social-democratic candidate for the Mayor of Cologne elections next year. He apparently thought he can run his campaign AND the full-time DOSB job...now there's issues about whether they have to pay him his nice salary for another four years (he had just started a new term in summer). That's not going to help focusing on an Olympics bid...

Also issues related to how Karlsruhe was selected over Hannover to host the 2029 World Games, and of course the city government of Berlin pretending that they are so ready to host the Olympics when it turns out that most of the venues on their own list are far from ready or even completely unsuitable.

[Sigh]

I don't follow the potential DOSB that closely but my impression is that this sums up the challenges facing DOSB quite well.

https://www.zeit.de/news/2024-12/06/dosb-debatten-von-olympia-plaenen-bis-personalquerelen

[yoshi]

Not quite sure how they can either not know about their CEO running for one of the more important city mayoralties in Germany, or how they can not see it as a conflict of interest (!). It really sounds like the whole DOSB needs a new leadership, it all seems quite incompetent at best & maybe dodgy at worst. It sounds like Germany is a bit like we were before our election, with everyone knowing there'll be a change of government & just waiting for it to happen. Maybe the CDU will be Olympics friendly & they'll make progress - although I'm not sure the DOSB have the capability to make the most of any opportunities they get 

[StefanMUC]

7 hours ago, yoshi said:

Not quite sure how they can either not know about their CEO running for one of the more important city mayoralties in Germany, or how they can not see it as a conflict of interest (!). It really sounds like the whole DOSB needs a new leadership, it all seems quite incompetent at best & maybe dodgy at worst. It sounds like Germany is a bit like we were before our election, with everyone knowing there'll be a change of government & just waiting for it to happen. Maybe the CDU will be Olympics friendly & they'll make progress - although I'm not sure the DOSB have the capability to make the most of any opportunities they get 

This is not really depending on the elections. All major parties support an Olympic bid in principle anyway this time. Only thing is there‘s no approved budget for 2025 yet, with the obvious effects on funding DOSB and sports in general.

As for the CEO: He made his Mayor candidacy public without informing the DOSB board, and I guess in every company, this would create a major issue. He had no sense for how it would look like, and the board once more came out with a whole chicken farm of eggs over their faces…

In the meantime, the Berlin city govt has announced drastic cuts to many popular things in culture and public transport (in part to finance an extremely expensive and unnecessary few km of inner city highway). If an Olympic bid was to go ahead there now with a referendum, it would be DOA. Mood in Munich is better, even though our finances aren‘t as rosy anymore either.

 

[StefanMUC]

One day before the 92nd anniversary of Hitler’s rise to power, two days after the 80th anniversary of Auschwitz, so called Christian and liberal parties united with fascists to achieve a majority in German parliament for a catalogue of performative actions that will achieve absolutely nothing to solve any of the questions around migration here, in Europe and the world. F*ck them all.
 

So soon enough the centennial of the fascist games may actually even sound tempting now that this taboo has been broken after 76 years of existence of the Federal Republic.

Coincidentally, I was in Berlin over the weekend and for the first time visited the Olympiastadion. While it is really in top shape nowadays, it cannot deny its monumental Nazi origins, unfortunately.

[StefanMUC]

Politics aside (well, not really, but now with a more concrete Olympics twist):

Munich city council has today overwhelmingly (the city has a green-social democrat majority, in this case supported by conservatives and liberals) approved the creation of a bid concept that will likely in autumn be put before a referendum, and at the end of the year the infamous DOSB will (finally?) decide which concept to put forward for 2036/2040. A nationwide concept is now off the table and remaining are supposedly apart from Munich: Rhine-Ruhr, Berlin on its own and a Berlin/Hamburg combo (which, in case my hometown doesn't get the nod, would make a lot of sense for me).

Issues in Munich are that while we still have very functional legacy venues from 1972 (plus Allianz Arena and a brand new additional indoor arena), the pool cannot be extended to nowadays required 10 lanes (well, I guess it could - I'm going there regularly to swim and there's quite some space at the sides left, but then I'm not an architecture/pool building specialist) and of course many additional sports which have to be accomodated in the city or the surroundings now that the regional/nationwide idea will not be pursued.

I guess politics will anyway steer it more towards Berlin one way or another, but the question in all German cities will be whether there will be sufficient public support.

[sebastien1214]

Berlin - Hamburg seems a bit more reassuring to me than the Rhine-Rhur concept. The concept of having several co-hosting cities can make sense for the case of Germany, Hamburg and Berlin are not that far apart (to compare with 2024, it is a bit longer than between Paris and Lille, but not by much, and it had not caused any problems). But I still have trouble seeing what Hamburg could bring that Berlin would not have, because at first glance one could be tempted to say "why would Munich be able to play it alone and not Berlin?". Munich would of course be a logical choice and would have all its chances for 2040 (it would be a big mistake if they try 2036 in my opinion), even if I would be a bit disappointed to try something again in Munich when the last German games were also held in Munich.

[StefanMUC]

Hamburg has many venues that would complement Berlin, reducing the need to build/renovate there. Berlin is also notoriously bankrupt, so sharing costs should help selling it.

Also, while not at Paris level, you can produce quite some iconic settings e.g. along the harbour/Elbe. Hamburg is well-established as a world triathlon series event also, and it’s anyway more beautiful than Berlin IMHO.

 

[sebastien1214]

7 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Hamburg has many venues that would complement Berlin, reducing the need to build/renovate there. Berlin is also notoriously bankrupt, so sharing costs should help selling it.

If Berlin is on the verge of bankruptcy, wouldn't it then perhaps be more reassuring if Hamburg went it alone, or is the equipment deficit even greater in Hamburg than in Berlin? (because the choice of a multi-city organization can still generate additional costs, due to the need to double the logistics, the possible question of building 2 Olympic villages, etc. etc. But there is no doubt that the Germans will certainly make the most economically sensible choice, given the fact that you are, ahem... allergic to public spending compared to the European average)

7 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Also, while not at Paris level, you can produce quite some iconic settings e.g. along the harbour/Elbe. Hamburg is well-established as a world triathlon series event also, and it’s anyway more beautiful than Berlin IMHO.

Anyway, I think that no one expects emblematic settings from Germany, so no one would judge negatively if there are not many emblematic settings for German Games.

(now, having already been to Munich, Berlin, Hamburg, and other German cities, if I had to judge exclusively on the emblematic scenery of the cities, I just hope we won't be in Munich)

[StefanMUC]

Berlin and Munich have what no other city in Germany: a full-size Olympic stadium for ceremonies & athletics.

Berlin’s is in top shape (visited it 10 days ago), Munich’s will be renovated with aim to host athletics worlds 2029 or later.

Hamburg’s 2024 bid had the stadium as the biggest cost factor, and R-R has shied away from naming a location so far because many of the cities involved want to have the “crown jewel”. So for Hamburg, teaming up with Berlin would totally make sense. And while Berlin is bankrupt, a former Mayor once famously coined the phrase “poor, but sexy”. Lack of money never stopped grandiose plans there.

[fusilli]

Do Munich and nearby have enough host capacity to handle a present scale Summer Olympiad? Berlin sure does (guess).

[StefanMUC]

25 minutes ago, fusilli said:

Do Munich and nearby have enough host capacity to handle a present scale Summer Olympiad? Berlin sure does (guess).

You mean hotel rooms?

Ever heard of Oktoberfest (6-7 million people every year, many from all over the world within two weeks)? There should be plenty of hotel rooms available in the city and within, let’s say, one hour radius of it that’s included in the transport network.

Olympic village is another story. The space foreseen in the 2022 bid (smaller anyway for Winter Games) is no longer available AFAIK. There are certainly other locations possible though, probably one thing to look at seriously when the bid concept is established in the coming months.

[Sir Rols]

*WARNING/DISCLAIMER: The following post contains links to an Inside The Games article, and should be evaluated within the context of that publication’s recent ownership and editorial changes

Also, I’m sure Stefan will point out it’s only a state politician doing what local politicians do. But for those of us who’d like to see Germany mount a credible bid, something to muse on…

Bavaria aims to become Olympic host

 

[StefanMUC]

22 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

*WARNING/DISCLAIMER: The following post contains links to an Inside The Games article, and should be evaluated within the context of that publication’s recent ownership and editorial changes

Also, I’m sure Stefan will point out it’s only a state politician doing what local politicians do. But for those of us who’d like to see Germany mount a credible bid, something to muse on…

Bavaria aims to become Olympic host

 

Yeah thanks for the warning. I clicked on it and found that it was about the latest statement from the Bavarian Interior Minister. Nothing really newsworthy about it in my view. Now that the federal elections are over, the usual move by Bavarian politicians to bring themselves to the attention of everyone and making sure the super importance of God's gift to Germany that is Bavaria is understood...this happens with all kinds of issues anyway. Given that there was widespread support for a German bid across all main parties, the election has not changed anything in that respect at least, and that Munich is very much interested has been known since 2022 at least.

[yoshi]

Has the election changed anything on the Olympic campaign? I seem to remember you saying that Merz is very pro bidding so if he is & Kirsty doesn't win the other election, maybe 36 could be back on after all? 

(And I notice nothing seems to have happened with Rhein Ruhr for a while...has Munich basically installed itself as the candidate no matter what? I'd still back Munich because I want to see Germany host, but I think it'd be a shame if they can't solve the stadium issue because otherwise NRW has so much going for it. A model for regional hosting in Europe, a hard deadline for infrastructure investment, a possible Barcelona style opening up of the region...I like Munich a lot as a city but they have done it before. Like I say though they have the experience & if it has to be, then it has to be...)

[StefanMUC]

5 hours ago, yoshi said:

Has the election changed anything on the Olympic campaign? I seem to remember you saying that Merz is very pro bidding so if he is & Kirsty doesn't win the other election, maybe 36 could be back on after all? 

(And I notice nothing seems to have happened with Rhein Ruhr for a while...has Munich basically installed itself as the candidate no matter what? I'd still back Munich because I want to see Germany host, but I think it'd be a shame if they can't solve the stadium issue because otherwise NRW has so much going for it. A model for regional hosting in Europe, a hard deadline for infrastructure investment, a possible Barcelona style opening up of the region...I like Munich a lot as a city but they have done it before. Like I say though they have the experience & if it has to be, then it has to be...)

Nothing has changed. The bid was not at all any campaign issue (I wish it had been instead of months of disingenious migration debates), and all major parties (cons, social dems, greens, libs - who are thankfully now gone) were pro bid anyway. The actual decision of the bid city/region still is with DOSB for end of the year.

Munich is pursuing the bid quite enthusiastically nowadays, and obviously I‘m more aware of that, but it seems Rhine-Ruhr has gone a bit quiet after the shambles with the University Games where they now have to outsource some events to Berlin last minute?

Still think the most realistic project would be a Berlin/Hamburg combo. Even though people may not realise it, but with high speed train, they‘re also well-connected (1.5 hours) and should have almost all venues ready between them.

Problem is the current societal climate in this country. Even if the major parties support it, I‘m very sceptical a local (there is no national one in the constitution) referendum would succeed.

[yoshi]

3 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

 shambles with the University Games where they now have to outsource some events to Berlin last minute?

? What happened there? I was hopeful that the University Games would be a springboard for Germany's Olympic plans generally, & obviously Rhine Ruhr itself in particular. What would they have to outsource to Berlin, that's a seriously long way? I must admit I'm a bit sceptical about getting Berlin involved, not because of the date or anything like that but simply because I can't see the city getting behind it. Maybe I'm wrong & they would support a hosting, but it really feels like inviting Boston 2. 

[StefanMUC]

52 minutes ago, yoshi said:

? What happened there? I was hopeful that the University Games would be a springboard for Germany's Olympic plans generally, & obviously Rhine Ruhr itself in particular. What would they have to outsource to Berlin, that's a seriously long way? I must admit I'm a bit sceptical about getting Berlin involved, not because of the date or anything like that but simply because I can't see the city getting behind it. Maybe I'm wrong & they would support a hosting, but it really feels like inviting Boston 2. 

Costs spiralled out of control, so the Düsseldorf venues were axed and sports moved to Berlin (swimming, diving, volleyball). Also, some of the existing venues will not be completely beefed up and some makeshift solutions will have to make do.

Not a great demonstration of Rhine-Ruhr hosting concept and ability.

[yoshi]

1 hour ago, StefanMUC said:

Costs spiralled out of control, so the Düsseldorf venues were axed and sports moved to Berlin (swimming, diving, volleyball). Also, some of the existing venues will not be completely beefed up and some makeshift solutions will have to make do.

Not a great demonstration of Rhine-Ruhr hosting concept and ability.

Oh dear...what caused all this, did Dusseldorf just pull out? Was there much construction involved? That is the biggest problem with doing things across multiple cities I guess, one can just pull out. Moving it to Berlin seems very odd, that's an extremely long way to go for a swimming pool & a standard indoor venue. Either way, not a great sign. Are the DOSB completely focused on summer or might the 2038 winter games be a better option if/when Switzerland falls through? That Germany won't have had a Winter Olympics for over a century might be an even bigger anomaly than not having the summer ones since 72...as long as they can get it through voters. 

[StefanMUC]

47 minutes ago, yoshi said:

Oh dear...what caused all this, did Dusseldorf just pull out? Was there much construction involved? That is the biggest problem with doing things across multiple cities I guess, one can just pull out. Moving it to Berlin seems very odd, that's an extremely long way to go for a swimming pool & a standard indoor venue. Either way, not a great sign. Are the DOSB completely focused on summer or might the 2038 winter games be a better option if/when Switzerland falls through? That Germany won't have had a Winter Olympics for over a century might be an even bigger anomaly than not having the summer ones since 72...as long as they can get it through voters. 

Winter is off the table for good. Global warming clearly affects our skiing areas now, and by 2038 or later, it will be much worse.

I don‘t remember the details of why Düsseldorf (of course the state capital and an anchor city of any regional Olympic bid) had to pull out exactly, other than being a cost issue.

[StefanMUC]

7 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Costs spiralled out of control, so the Düsseldorf venues were axed and sports moved to Berlin (swimming, diving, volleyball). Also, some of the existing venues will not be completely beefed up and some makeshift solutions will have to make do.

Not a great demonstration of Rhine-Ruhr hosting concept and ability.

Oh, and that was my 4000th post here, so congratulations to myself! Fitting that it happened in a Germany thread.

[Sir Rols]

Probably time to retire this thread now that Germany seems to be focussing now on 2040

Germany 2040 Games bid gathering steam

Parsons endorses German 2040 bid

Started a new thread for 2040 here:

 

Edited March 12, 2025 by Sir Rols

[StefanMUC]

Now for some actual news from Germany, and yes, still belonging to 2036:

Berlin’s city government announced yesterday to put forward a bid with Berlin as anchor city and co-hosting with four more states (Schleswig-Holstein, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern - both likely for sailing/football I guess, Brandenburg and Saxony - there’s a canoe slalom course near Leipzig, plus football also probably).

Bid aims at either 2036 or 2040, and they do not want to hold a referendum in Berlin (I wonder why!!!).

Article in German here - aldo mentions that DOSB only wants to decide in December 2026 (?):

https://www.rbb24.de/sport/beitrag/2025/03/olympische-spiele-2036-2040-berlin-bewerbung-vier-bundeslaender-dosb.html

No word on venues concretely (the above is my spectulation).