Germany 2036

[AustralianFan]

Was wondering if a Rhine-Rhur 2036 candidature would emerge since the former  ITTF leader Weikert was elected new President of DOSB after landslide victory (Inside the Games - 4 Dec-21).

Michael Mronz, leader of the 2032 bid, is featured in this twitter post about 2036:

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Sir Rols

[StefanMUC]

Yesterday, the new conservative-green coalition was formed in North Rhine Westphalia (NRW), and in their agreement, the parties support another Rhine-Ruhr bid (but including public involvement, so likely a ref).

German govt is also in favour, with the Greens (allegedly the evil NOlympics party for some…) being the only ones in both governments.

Of course with the current situation and rising inflation, a cost debate would immediately kill it, but maybe there‘s still a few years time until decisions must be taken and not just beautiful words on a paper…

[StefanMUC]

So apparently, all relevant German sports stakeholders should gather here in Munich these days because of the multi-sports European Championships (www.munich2022.com) starting tonight.

Rumour has it a new bid (by whoever whenever) seems to be very high up on the agenda of discussions…

[yoshi]

Good - I do hope these Games (that's what they are) are a big success, they're the best chance to convince Germany into an Olympic bid. Where would be favourite, Rhein-Ruhr or Munich? Or somewhere else entirely? Maybe 2036 will end up being Germany v Birmingham - I'd call that a no-lose situation, and I think the IOC would too 

[StefanMUC]

Public opinion - especially at a time of inflation - will be hard to overcome.

Given that Berlin, Hamburg and Munich are basically all damaged goods when it comes to Olympic bids (though I think my dear hometown apart from potential Winter ambitions could even still present a workable Summer bid all things considered, in line with the newspeak agenda), Rhine-Ruhr would probably make the most sense. They have lots of venues, and while it might look all over the place, the venue radius is apparently similar to LA28 (minus sailing). Only thing really lacking is the main stadium, which the area doesn‘t have anymore since Cologne, Gelsenkirchen and Düsseldorf removed the tracks from theirs.

[fusilli]

I don't get what's the fuss about this bid. I mean, multiple post-industrial towns to host the olympics?  Berlin still their top choice.. if they have intentions. 

 

[yoshi]

Rhine Ruhr would be really good I think - multi-city proof of concept but still close, and I have only good experience of the transport there. Plus could have a Birmingham effect on the Ruhr especially of convincing people it's worth visiting (I confess I only passed through the Ruhr area). But I loved both Cologne and Dusseldorf . There are other football clubs around the area, right? Isn't Essen considered like the 'capital'?

[StefanMUC]

Essen, Düsseldorf (which is the political capital of NRW after all) and Dortmund are all basically same size, and Cologne further apart from them much bigger even on its own right. This is also the tricky bid to put all those more or less equal political entities into the right balance that nobody feels outdone by the others…it‘s not like Brisbane and the rest of SEQ, more like Catalonia vs Aragon on a local level.

And all the major footballclubs (including struggling, but recently promoted to 3rd division, Essen) now have football-only venues that cannot be fit with a 400m track unfortunately.

[yoshi]

 

1 hour ago, StefanMUC said:

Essen, Düsseldorf (which is the political capital of NRW after all) and Dortmund are all basically same size, and Cologne further apart from them much bigger even on its own right. This is also the tricky bid to put all those more or less equal political entities into the right balance that nobody feels outdone by the others…it‘s not like Brisbane and the rest of SEQ, more like Catalonia vs Aragon on a local level.

And all the major footballclubs (including struggling, but recently promoted to 3rd division, Essen) now have football-only venues that cannot be fit with a 400m track unfortunately.

Just thinking back to when I was travelling round there, I get the sense Cologne is very much separate from what is Rhine Ruhr, while Düsseldorf is more part of it? So would Cologne even be involved in such a bid? That's a shame about the stadium, because Essen comes to mind immediately as the obvious city to be where the main stadium is - and knowing a bit about German football, I can't imagine too many fanbases being happy with getting a stadium with a track. Would be a great shame if such a clearly good idea got shipwrecked by the stadium...

[StefanMUC]

Cologne would definitely be part of it, even Aachen and Bonn would be included: https://www.rheinruhrcity.com/en (the 2032 concept, though surely to be used again if necessary)

Here‘s website for the 2025 World University Games, obviously a smaller scale, but similar regional concept: https://rhineruhr2025.com/en/

Organising this was once meant to be a major asset just before the 2032 vote by the IOC, if usual schedules had still applied…

 

[yoshi]

I didn't know you were hosting the Universiade, that'll be a very good test. No Cologne though... I see the stadium is in Bochum. Might be a bit of bitterness in the area if they were led to believe they had a shot at 2032, hopefully that wouldn't affect any referendum. 

[StefanMUC]

Cologne isn‘t needed for the Universiade, and the stadium in Bochum will have 17k capacity for it. It‘s perfect for a national athletic championship or the like, but can‘t even imagine (when looking at Google maps) how this could be turned into a (temporary) 50-70k seater for the Olympics.

Any referendum here will fail as long as the IOC doesn‘t finally get around its disastrous reputation. At least the Bach era will end at some point, but the „new normal“/„agenda 2020+“ really so far has done zero to improve the IOC‘s credibility here.

Germany is not an event-hating country. Tonight‘s opening of Munich 2022, which was more of a concert in the Olympiapark with free entry rather than an official ceremony, attracted over 50k people and the police had to close off the park as it became too crowded (I couldn‘t go myself, only have tickets as from Monday onwards). But as soon as Fencing 1976 or one of the like would start to be involved, the mood would be entirely different. He‘d certainly get booed off stage.

[SportLightning]

2036 might be possible.

[Sir Rols]

It might

[Australian Kiwi]

I think there might be a bit of pressure this century for city's claiming their centennials... but 2036 in Germany just does not sit well for me. 

Frankly I think a multi city, Warsaw-centred bid for 2036 might be a better idea. 

[AustralianFan]

8 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Cologne isn‘t needed for the Universiade, and the stadium in Bochum will have 17k capacity for it. It‘s perfect for a national athletic championship or the like, but can‘t even imagine (when looking at Google maps) how this could be turned into a (temporary) 50-70k seater for the Olympics.

Any referendum here will fail as long as the IOC doesn‘t finally get around its disastrous reputation. At least the Bach era will end at some point, but the „new normal“/„agenda 2020+“ really so far has done zero to improve the IOC‘s credibility here.

Germany is not an event-hating country. Tonight‘s opening of Munich 2022, which was more of a concert in the Olympiapark with free entry rather than an official ceremony, attracted over 50k people and the police had to close off the park as it became too crowded (I couldn‘t go myself, only have tickets as from Monday onwards). But as soon as Fencing 1976 or one of the like would start to be involved, the mood would be entirely different. He‘d certainly get booed off stage.

Gosh, you have a short memory.

Rhine-Rhur’s ill-fated bid for the 2032 Games was a train wreck, seriously, wracked with in-fighting and lack of key support.

Don’t blame the IOC President for that.  Do you want me to again dig up all the headlines of the internal problems that beset Rhine-Rhur’s 2032 bid? 

It was an easy decision for the Future Host Commission to not elevate Rhine-Rhur to Targeted Dialogue.

As I said previously, I hope that Rhine Rhur can get it’s collective act together for another candidature, just not for 2036.

I agree with @Australian Kiwi that having a German Olympics 100 years after the Nazi Olympics would not be wise I don’t think.

Persinalky, it does not sit well with me either.

[AustralianFan]

(correction): Personally, it does not sit well with me either.

[StefanMUC]

1 hour ago, Australian Kiwi said:

I think there might be a bit of pressure this century for city's claiming their centennials... but 2036 in Germany just does not sit well for me. 

Frankly I think a multi city, Warsaw-centred bid for 2036 might be a better idea. 

Yeah, 2036 would be an uneasy jubilee, and certainly if at all it should not be a Berlin bid.

Realistically, if Germany wants to finally host again, there needs to be a bid sooner than later. If really the UK/Madrid/Rome came up, or even Istanbul or elsewhere in Europe, and Germany stood by, the next chance would not be before 2044/48 (I think with climate change, Winter Games will not be feasible here anymore from 2034 onwards anyway).

And for a country of as much „Olympic relevance“ and economic power, that would be an awfully long time when comparable countries got to host multiple times in between. Lots of blame for some bizarre and disastrous bid campaigns surely, but not only. That a dubious figure from this country heads the IOC and is cosying up to certain rulers who promise glitter makes people here evenn more aware about the IOC‘s general state than maybe elsewhere.

As I said before, the population would certainly embrace the athletes and events, but not really certain pomp & circumstance of it all.

[baron-pierreIV]

Germany and 2036 do not go well together -- for more than obvious reasons.  I think the IOC will push for Barcelona (or Kyiv if Ukraine has already recovered).  

Edited August 11, 2022 by baron-pierreIV

[FYI]

Ukraine is gonna need beyond 2036 to properly recover. Very doubtful that an Olympic bid is top priority for them right now anyway.

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, Australian Kiwi said:

I think there might be a bit of pressure this century for city's claiming their centennials...

Yeah, well, I’m sure it will inspire and be the rationale behind a few bids, but I’d wonder how many would actually win through.

it’s not like the IOC is so irresistibly drawn to them - they let the most significant and symbolic of all, Athens 1996, pass with a “thanks but no thanks”. Paris is the only one who’s managed it, but they were loooong overdue a hosting of any year, it was bound to happen anyway soon.

I also agree Germany 2036 is a bit troubling… but not impossible. Given the right messaging and optics (see how far we’ve come and changed since those dark days 100 years ago), it could be pulled of. One things for sure, 1936 would need to be acknowledged in some way.

After that, well, we’ve got a hiatus for centennials till 2048. London’s possible, but who knows? Helsinki probably couldn’t manage one again. Melbourne, I’m sure, would jump at the chance for its centennial, and while Brisbane already was much sooner after 2000 than many would have expected Oz to host again, I’m not sure about it managing a three-peat in just over a 50 years span.   

[FYI]

13 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Yeah, well, I’m sure it will inspire and be the rationale behind a few bids, but I’d wonder how many would actually win through.  

it’s not like the IOC is so irresistibly drawn to them - they let the most significant and symbolic of all, Athens 1996, pass with a “thanks but no thanks”. 

Sure, but how much of that was just attributed to Athens simply not being ready for 1996. Not to mention the Greeks “we have the RIGHT to host the Centennial” mantra that I’m sure grew tiresome with many in the IOC.

And even then, Athens still came in 2nd. Had their 1996 bid been more solid & humble like their 2004 effort was (& which they wound up winning), the hosting history books might look different these days.

[Chris_Mex]

25 minutes ago, FYI said:

Ukraine is gonna need beyond 2036 to properly recover. Very doubtful that an Olympic bid is top priority for them right now anyway.

They are bidding for a 2030 world expo in Odessa. Considering the political climate if a miracle happens and BTS and petrodollars don't convince the BIE odessa may have a shot, not a clear one but a shot. That would help ukraine redevelope infrastructure needed for the country to rebuild its economy on tourism and maybe with a little help of europe it can become a new financial and touristic HUB in the area. If that happens it wouldn't be such an quixotic idea to have an olympics in odessa something like "look we can rebuild the country" thing and maybe simbolicaly inviting russia as a peace symbol, maybe a winter edition for 2034 would suit better the country and build a (paradoxically) sochi level olympic park for boosting the local economy.

[Australian Kiwi]

47 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Yeah, 2036 would be an uneasy jubilee, and certainly if at all it should not be a Berlin bid.

Realistically, if Germany wants to finally host again, there needs to be a bid sooner than later. If really the UK/Madrid/Rome came up, or even Istanbul or elsewhere in Europe, and Germany stood by, the next chance would not be before 2044/48 (I think with climate change, Winter Games will not be feasible here anymore from 2034 onwards anyway).

And for a country of as much „Olympic relevance“ and economic power, that would be an awfully long time when comparable countries got to host multiple times in between. Lots of blame for some bizarre and disastrous bid campaigns surely, but not only. That a dubious figure from this country heads the IOC and is cosying up to certain rulers who promise glitter makes people here evenn more aware about the IOC‘s general state than maybe elsewhere.

As I said before, the population would certainly embrace the athletes and events, but not really certain pomp & circumstance of it all.

Yeah - I can't see Germany getting its foot in the door for the SOGs at all for decades unfortunately. 

If it had the appetite and the right candidate (like Spain) it would have had 2032 in the bag. Brisbane just simply could not hold up against the likes of Hamburg or Madrid. 

I still would love to see a Munich Winter Games... Sapporo 2030, Salt Lake 2034 and Munich 2038 would be a beautiful run of host cities. 

[Australian Kiwi]

19 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Yeah, well, I’m sure it will inspire and be the rationale behind a few bids, but I’d wonder how many would actually win through.

 

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