Sapporo 2030: Give them an offer they can't refuse with no bids involved

[Faster]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:13 PM, stryker said:

I highly doubt Sapporo would move forward with a bid if the March survey showed a majority of residents did not want the city to pursue the bid. That would be political suicide for Sapporo's ruling politicians. We've seen countless examples (Obamacare comes to mind) where politicians go forward with something the public doesn't want then they get punished at the polls for it. Remember some thought Calgary's bid which had a non-binding referendum could still go forward even if the referendum turned out negative. The city quickly ended the bid. I fully expect Sapporo to do the same.

 

Much of Western Europe is still out right hostile with the IOC but I could see France in perhaps the best position to go forward with a WOGs bid if Paris 2024 goes well and comes in within budget (and if covid is no longer an issue by then). Milan is a bit iffier. Milan has the potential to have a budget spiral out of control with the sliding track, new ice hockey arena, and speed skating oval needing to be built with no clear legacies involved. If Turin was still part of this I'd say no doubt but Milan has to prove they can control the budget for 2026 and I'm not sure they can. If Milan ends up going over budget then I suspect it will be even tougher sledding for the IOC to attract WOGs bids from Western Europe.

The new indoor arena was being built regardless of the Olympics and its not a completely new oval. It is a redevelopment of an existing oval. Italy has a long history with speed skating, so not likely to go to any less use then the current configuration is. Italy does also have a very long history in the sliding sports. Not having a sliding track in the whole country is an usual occurrence. Not the norm. The Torino track was decommissioned for the same reasons Calgary was. Costs to repair and upgrade. That being said, the IOC is strongly encouraging Italy to use St. Moritz or Ingles instead of rebuilding Cortina.

For Italy I would say the worst expenditure of money is going to be the temporary venues for all the freestyle skiing and snowboarding events. 

[Brekkie Boy]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:19 PM, SportLightning said:

My prediction for the 2030 Winter Olympics joint bid for Japan idea should be: Sapporo-Nagano 2030.

They're 1000km apart.  Even under "Agenda 2020" that should be a none starter, especially when both are capable of hosting the event alone.

 

Personally I'd love to see the games return to a European heartland of Winter Sport before long - either Norway or Austria.   Probably not going to happen for 2030 at least, but feel like they need to bring the games somewhat back to their roots before they outgrow themselves even further.

[Brekkie Boy]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:19 PM, SportLightning said:

My prediction for the 2030 Winter Olympics joint bid for Japan idea should be: Sapporo-Nagano 2030.

They're 1000km apart.  Even under "Agenda 2020" that should be a none starter, especially when both are capable of hosting the event alone.

 

Personally I'd love to see the games return to a European heartland of Winter Sport before long - either Norway or Austria.   Probably not going to happen for 2030 at least, but feel like they need to bring the games somewhat back to their roots before they outgrow themselves even further.

[SportLightning]

4 hours ago, Brekkie Boy said:

They're 1000km apart.  Even under "Agenda 2020" that should be a none starter, especially when both are capable of hosting the event alone.

 

Personally I'd love to see the games return to a European heartland of Winter Sport before long - either Norway or Austria.   Probably not going to happen for 2030 at least, but feel like they need to bring the games somewhat back to their roots before they outgrow themselves even further.

I don't know about that, but we should see about that.

[Victorian]

I would prefer the 2030 games are not in Japan. We have had too many games in recent times in Asia. I would prefer it goes to Salt Lake City or Vancouver.

2008 S OLY- Asia

2010 W OLY- North America

2010 S YOG- Asia

2012 W YOG- Europe

2012 S OLY- Europe

2014 W OLY- Europe

2014 S YOG- Asia

2016 W YOG- Europe

2016 S OLY- South America

2018 W OLY- Asia

2018 S OLY- South America

2020 W YOG- Europe

2021 S OLY- Asia

2022 W OLY- Asia

2024 W YOG- Asia

2024 S OLY- Europe

2026 W OLY- Europe

2026 S YOG- Africa

2028 W YOG- TBC

2028 S OLY- North America

2030 W OLY- TBC

2030 S YOG- TBC

2032 W YOG- TBC

2032 S OLY- Oceania

[SportLightning]

17 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I would prefer the 2030 games are not in Japan. We have had too many games in recent times in Asia. I would prefer it goes to Salt Lake City or Vancouver.

2008 S OLY- Asia

2010 W OLY- North America

2010 S YOG- Asia

2012 W YOG- Europe

2012 S OLY- Europe

2014 W OLY- Europe

2014 S YOG- Asia

2016 W YOG- Europe

2016 S OLY- South America

2018 W OLY- Asia

2018 S OLY- South America

2020 W YOG- Europe

2021 S OLY- Asia

2022 W OLY- Asia

2024 W YOG- Asia

2024 S OLY- Europe

2026 W OLY- Europe

2026 S YOG- Africa

2028 W YOG- TBC

2028 S OLY- North America

2030 W OLY- TBC

2030 S YOG- TBC

2032 W YOG- TBC

2032 S OLY- Oceania

What about Barcelona they could do a 2nd consecutive Winter Olympics in Europe if awarded.

[AliciasBlade]

Wouldn’t there be a mess going on with sponsorships if SLC were to be given 2030?

[stryker]

On 2/23/2022 at 7:28 PM, Faster said:

The new indoor arena was being built regardless of the Olympics and its not a completely new oval. It is a redevelopment of an existing oval. Italy has a long history with speed skating, so not likely to go to any less use then the current configuration is. Italy does also have a very long history in the sliding sports. Not having a sliding track in the whole country is an usual occurrence. Not the norm. The Torino track was decommissioned for the same reasons Calgary was. Costs to repair and upgrade. That being said, the IOC is strongly encouraging Italy to use St. Moritz or Ingles instead of rebuilding Cortina.

For Italy I would say the worst expenditure of money is going to be the temporary venues for all the freestyle skiing and snowboarding events. 

The new arena is facing escalating costs and corruption issues surrounding the Santa Giulia project. The IOC has already recommended that Milan use Arena Civica for speed skating. Italy also has a perfectly suitable oval in Turin. The existing oval is an outdoor oval with no existing infrastructure and plans are to enclose it. It will be very expensive. The Torino track was decommissioned because the Italians were falling behind in preparations for the 2006 WOGs and did a haphazard rush job to get it ready. As for the sliding track, I actually agree with rebuilding the one in Cortina and I highly doubt with the anti-Olympic sentiment in Switzerland that the locals would allow the St. Mortiz track 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 6:37 PM, Brekkie Boy said:

They're 1000km apart.  Even under "Agenda 2020" that should be a none starter, especially when both are capable of hosting the event alone.

 

Personally I'd love to see the games return to a European heartland of Winter Sport before long - either Norway or Austria.   Probably not going to happen for 2030 at least, but feel like they need to bring the games somewhat back to their roots before they outgrow themselves even further.

Actually I think a Tokyo- Nagano Winter Olympics would make more sense logistically but that's an impossibility after Tokyo's financial losses.

I'd like to see the Olympics go back to the likes of Norway and Austria as well, unfortunately the IOC burned their bridges with Norway in the 2022 race and I doubt any Austria bid could survive an inevitable referendum.

[SportLightning]

22 hours ago, stryker said:

The new arena is facing escalating costs and corruption issues surrounding the Santa Giulia project. The IOC has already recommended that Milan use Arena Civica for speed skating. Italy also has a perfectly suitable oval in Turin. The existing oval is an outdoor oval with no existing infrastructure and plans are to enclose it. It will be very expensive. The Torino track was decommissioned because the Italians were falling behind in preparations for the 2006 WOGs and did a haphazard rush job to get it ready. As for the sliding track, I actually agree with rebuilding the one in Cortina and I highly doubt with the anti-Olympic sentiment in Switzerland that the locals would allow the St. Mortiz track 

 

Actually I think a Tokyo- Nagano Winter Olympics would make more sense logistically but that's an impossibility after Tokyo's financial losses.

I'd like to see the Olympics go back to the likes of Norway and Austria as well, unfortunately the IOC burned their bridges with Norway in the 2022 race and I doubt any Austria bid could survive an inevitable referendum.

I really doubt that too. Maybe Sapporo-Nagano would be possible between the cities that hosted in 1972 (Sapporo) and 1998 (Nagano).

[stryker]

4 minutes ago, SportLightning said:

Maybe Sapporo-Nagano would be possible between the cities that hosted in 1972 (Sapporo) and 1998 (Nagano).

Sapporo only needs the sliding track in Nagano. They have no need to co-host with Nagano otherwise.

[yoshi]

Isn't Innsbruck fairly close to Cortina, relatively? Could they use their track if it's still there?

[StefanMUC]

24 minutes ago, yoshi said:

Isn't Innsbruck fairly close to Cortina, relatively? Could they use their track if it's still there?

2.5 hours by car, forget about public transport. Also: of course the Innsbruck track is there, it‘s hosting races and championships every year.

[stryker]

27 minutes ago, yoshi said:

Isn't Innsbruck fairly close to Cortina, relatively? Could they use their track if it's still there?

In theory yes, but I think you'd have the same issues that St. Moritz would have. Would the locals be welcoming of hosting sliding events for an Olympics after they overwhelmingly voted against an Olympic bid for 2026 in the first place?

[SportLightning]

21 hours ago, stryker said:

Sapporo only needs the sliding track in Nagano. They have no need to co-host with Nagano otherwise.

I think Nagano could use several venues including skiing, bobsled/luge and snowboarding. Sapporo would host the rest of them. Possible zones:

Olympic Venues -

Sapporo Zone:
Sapporo Dome - Opening Ceremony

Okurayana Ski Jump Stadium - Ski Jumping

Miyanomori Ski Jump Stadium - Big Air Snowboarding

Tsukisamu Gymnasium - Men's Ice Hockey

Mikaho Gymnasium - Women's Ice Hockey

Sapporo Curling Stadium - Curling

Obihiro Forest Speed Skating Oval - Speed Skating

Makomanai Ice Arena - Figure Skating, Short Track Speed Skating

 

Nagano Zone:

Minami Nagano Sports Park - Closing Ceremony

Happo'one Resort - Alpine Skiing (Downhill and Super G)

Iizuna Kogen Ski Area - Freestyling Skiing

Kanbayashi Snowboard Park - Snowboarding (halfpipe)

Mount Higashidate/Mount Yakebitai - Alpine Skiing

Nozawa Onsen Ski Resort - Biathlon

Snow Harp - Cross-country Skiing and Nordic Combined

Spiral - Bobsleigh and Luge

 

Aomori Zone:

Ajigasawa Ski Area - Snowboard (Alpine)

 

Paralympic Zones

Sapporo Zone:

Sapporo Dome - Opening and Closing Ceremonies and Ice Sledge Racing

Mikaho Gymnasium - Ice Sledge Hockey

Sapporo Teine - Alpine Skiing (Downhill and Super G)

Shirahatayama Open Stadium - Cross country skiing

Nagano Zone:

Nozawa Onsen Ski Resort - Biathlon

Snow Harp - Cross-country Skiing and Nordic Combined

Kazakoshi Park Arena - Wheelchair Curling

 

Non-competition venues:

Sapporo Zone:
 

Sapporo Olympic Village

Sapporo Odori Park -  Live Site and Medal Plaza

 

Nagano Zone:

Nagano Olympic Village

IBC/MPC

 

Aomori Zone:

Aomori Olympic Village

 

That's the possible Sapporo/Nagano 2030 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games Master Plans.

[stryker]

22 hours ago, SportLightning said:

I think Nagano could use several venues including skiing, bobsled/luge and snowboarding. Sapporo would host the rest of them. Possible zones:

Olympic Venues -

Sapporo Zone:
Sapporo Dome - Opening Ceremony

Okurayana Ski Jump Stadium - Ski Jumping

Miyanomori Ski Jump Stadium - Big Air Snowboarding

Tsukisamu Gymnasium - Men's Ice Hockey

Mikaho Gymnasium - Women's Ice Hockey

Sapporo Curling Stadium - Curling

Obihiro Forest Speed Skating Oval - Speed Skating

Makomanai Ice Arena - Figure Skating, Short Track Speed Skating

 

Nagano Zone:

Minami Nagano Sports Park - Closing Ceremony

Happo'one Resort - Alpine Skiing (Downhill and Super G)

Iizuna Kogen Ski Area - Freestyling Skiing

Kanbayashi Snowboard Park - Snowboarding (halfpipe)

Mount Higashidate/Mount Yakebitai - Alpine Skiing

Nozawa Onsen Ski Resort - Biathlon

Snow Harp - Cross-country Skiing and Nordic Combined

Spiral - Bobsleigh and Luge

 

Aomori Zone:

Ajigasawa Ski Area - Snowboard (Alpine)

 

Paralympic Zones

Sapporo Zone:

Sapporo Dome - Opening and Closing Ceremonies and Ice Sledge Racing

Mikaho Gymnasium - Ice Sledge Hockey

Sapporo Teine - Alpine Skiing (Downhill and Super G)

Shirahatayama Open Stadium - Cross country skiing

Nagano Zone:

Nozawa Onsen Ski Resort - Biathlon

Snow Harp - Cross-country Skiing and Nordic Combined

Kazakoshi Park Arena - Wheelchair Curling

 

Non-competition venues:

Sapporo Zone:
 

Sapporo Olympic Village

Sapporo Odori Park -  Live Site and Medal Plaza

 

Nagano Zone:

Nagano Olympic Village

IBC/MPC

 

Aomori Zone:

Aomori Olympic Village

 

That's the possible Sapporo/Nagano 2030 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games Master Plans.

The Sapporo area can host all the outdoor skiing events. There's absolutely no need for any events like alpine skiing, nordic combined, or snowboarding to be held in Nagano. Tsukisamu Gymnasium and Mikaho Gymnasium are too small capacity wise for Olympic ice hockey. The speed skating oval at Obihiro is also too small but the Makomanai Outdoor Stadium which hosted speed skating in 1972 could easily fill the role.  The Sapporo Community Dome and the Hokkaido Sports Prefectural Center can host ice hockey or curling. Sapporo Dome could host ice hockey as well especially given the construction of ES CON Field, a retractable roof baseball stadium for the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters, which at 35,000 could easily host the ceremonies.

Bottom line. The only sport a Sapporo bid needs Nagano for is the sliding events.

[munichfan]

1 minute ago, stryker said:

The speed skating oval at Obihiro is also too small but the Makomanai Outdoor Stadium which hosted speed skating in 1972 could easily fill the role.

A few weeks ago there were reports from the Sapporo bid that part of the million dollar savings were events to be staged in (among others) Niseko and Obihiro. And for what else but the oval would one go to Obihiro?

https://nipponnews.photoshelter.com/image/I0000H5fpWwUzhBc

The link takes you to an inside photo of the oval. That seems like ample of space to get in a few thousand temporary seats.

[stryker]

2 minutes ago, munichfan said:

A few weeks ago there were reports from the Sapporo bid that part of the million dollar savings were events to be staged in (among others) Niseko and Obihiro. And for what else but the oval would one go to Obihiro?

https://nipponnews.photoshelter.com/image/I0000H5fpWwUzhBc

The link takes you to an inside photo of the oval. That seems like ample of space to get in a few thousand temporary seats.

A few thousand maybe and that'd be well short of ovals like the ones in Beijing or PyeongChang and speed skating is a marquee event. TBH I'm a bit biased towards having speed skating outdoors again in the elements.

[munichfan]

7 minutes ago, stryker said:

A few thousand maybe and that'd be well short of ovals like the ones in Beijing or PyeongChang and speed skating is a marquee event. TBH I'm a bit biased towards having speed skating outdoors again in the elements.

During the times when the IOC insisted on strict minimums for seating, the required capacity was the same as for women's ice hockey. That does not sound like too much of a marquee event to me. The question is would it be worth to spend so much more on another venue to get another like 2,000 spectators in for a handfull of events?

[SportLightning]

1 hour ago, stryker said:

The Sapporo area can host all the outdoor skiing events. There's absolutely no need for any events like alpine skiing, nordic combined, or snowboarding to be held in Nagano. Tsukisamu Gymnasium and Mikaho Gymnasium are too small capacity wise for Olympic ice hockey. The speed skating oval at Obihiro is also too small but the Makomanai Outdoor Stadium which hosted speed skating in 1972 could easily fill the role.  The Sapporo Community Dome and the Hokkaido Sports Prefectural Center can host ice hockey or curling. Sapporo Dome could host ice hockey as well especially given the construction of ES CON Field, a retractable roof baseball stadium for the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters, which at 35,000 could easily host the ceremonies.

Bottom line. The only sport a Sapporo bid needs Nagano for is the sliding events.

That's possible for the Sapporo-Nagano 2030 joint bid. If so, it would be the second time for an Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games to be hosted in two cities after Milano-Cortina 2026.

[AliciasBlade]

Yuzuru Hanyu joking about competing at Sapporo 2030

[stryker]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:10 PM, SportLightning said:

That's possible for the Sapporo-Nagano 2030 joint bid. If so, it would be the second time for an Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games to be hosted in two cities after Milano-Cortina 2026.

It makes no sense to call it a joint bid when the only event Nagano would need to host is the sliding events. You cannot compare it to Milan-Cortina given that Cortina d'Ampezzo is hosting multiple events. Sapporo can host all events except the sliding events 

[SportLightning]

12 hours ago, stryker said:

It makes no sense to call it a joint bid when the only event Nagano would need to host is the sliding events. You cannot compare it to Milan-Cortina given that Cortina d'Ampezzo is hosting multiple events. Sapporo can host all events except the sliding events 

I was saying that it could be the second time to be hosted in two cities hosted.

[Bear]

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1120418/sapporo-publishes-2030-draft-plan

Quote

...

The draft plan includes a venue masterplan, with a focus on using facilities presently used by residents, including some venues that were part of Sapporo 1972.

The Okurayama Ski Jump Stadium, which hosted ski jumping in 1972, has been provisionally listed as hosting the sport again, as well as the ski jumping element of the Nordic combined discipline.  

Meanwhile, the Sapporo Tsukisamu Gymnasium, which hosted ice hockey in 1972, has been provisionally listed as a curling and wheelchair curling venue as part of the 2030 bid.

The Makomanai Park Indoor Stadium, provisionally listed as an ice hockey venue for 2030, hosted the Closing Ceremony, figure skating and ice hockey venues at Sapporo 1972.

The Nishioka Biathlon Stadium, which was built to host biathlon in 1972, is listed as the provisional venue for biathlon, Para biathlon and Para cross-country skiing, while the Sapporo Teine, which hosted Alpine skiing’s slalom and giant slalom competitions in 1972, is provisionally listed as a venue for 2030 for Alpine skiing, freestyle skiing, snowboarding, Para Alpine skiing and Para snowboarding.

The Sapporo Dome, which hosted football matches during the Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympics, is planned as the venue for the Opening and Closing Ceremonies and the Medal Plaza.

Regarding an estimated budget for organising the Games, the draft plan claims that "in principle no public funds will be used", and a contingency fund of approximately 10 per cent of the budget will be used to respond to unforeseen circumstances, such as the coronavirus pandemic that forced the delay of Tokyo 2020 by a year.

The draft plan puts the budget scale for the Games at approximately ¥200 billion (£1.3 million/$1.7 million/€1.5 million) to ¥220 billion (£1.4 million/$1.8 million/€1.7 million).

...

 

[munichfan]

Oh, so no Niseko for Alpine skiing then? I'm a bit disappointed on that one. I think the volcano setting makes for a truly exceptional backdrop there.

[SportLightning]

A long way to go for this bid.