Sapporo 2030: Give them an offer they can't refuse with no bids involved

[Sir Rols]

 

8 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

You cannot pronounce the bid dead just yet, nor can Stryker, nor can anyone of us here behind our keyboards.  We are not involved in either the First Nations peoples in Canada nor the government there nor the IOC or thr Canadian Olympic Committee.

If ever I’m on life support, I want you on my team 

I know we rarely (if ever) see eye to eye but… hope you have a Happy Christmas!

Edited December 24, 2022 by Sir Rols

[stryker]

12 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

You cannot pronounce the bid dead just yet, nor can Stryker, nor can anyone of us here behind our keyboards.  We are not involved in either the First Nations peoples in Canada nor the government there nor the IOC or thr Canadian Olympic Committee.

We can only guess at the likely trajectory of this candidature.  

You will just have to wait ….. like the rest of us until if and when both parties have pronounced the bid dead and buried.

Until then, we need to watch for any further developments some time over the next 12 month or so to see what happens, of anything.

• Indigenous-led bid to host 2030 Olympics 'stalled' but not quite dead, organizers say - 29 October 2022
• 2030 Olympic bid not quite dead, but B.C. government must join talks: First Nations - 28 October 2022
• First Nations urge BC NDP government to reconsider 2030 Olympic bid - 29 October 2022

We each just need to be patient 

 

 

 

Do you understand how government funding works? You do understand that money is required for things like this right? You do know the BC government has said the issue is final right? Check the link below where a member of the BC Ministry of Sport even uses the words "is binding and will not be revisited." It is dead until the BC government decides to open up the checkbook which they are not.

Indigenous-led bid to bring 2030 Olympics to B.C. finds hope as province remains steadfast in rejection | CBC Sports

What the First Nations and COC have tried to do is essentially a guilt trip by saying because this was an indigenous led bid that the BC government had no right whatsoever to say no without consulting the First Nations or the COC and have thrown in the this hurts reconciliation angle. What they don`t get is unless the First Nations are funding this with casino money, the taxpayers of BC were going to be paying for this. Could the bid pivot to 2034? Sure could. But unless there`s a change of heart in the face of rising costs of living and a global recession, the answer is no. There`s nothing that suggests BC will change their minds.

 

 

[AustralianFan]

1 hour ago, stryker said:

Do you understand how government funding works? You do understand that money is required for things like this right? You do know the BC government has said the issue is final right? Check the link below where a member of the BC Ministry of Sport even uses the words "is binding and will not be revisited." It is dead until the BC government decides to open up the checkbook which they are not.

Indigenous-led bid to bring 2030 Olympics to B.C. finds hope as province remains steadfast in rejection | CBC Sports

What the First Nations and COC have tried to do is essentially a guilt trip by saying because this was an indigenous led bid that the BC government had no right whatsoever to say no without consulting the First Nations or the COC and have thrown in the this hurts reconciliation angle. What they don`t get is unless the First Nations are funding this with casino money, the taxpayers of BC were going to be paying for this. Could the bid pivot to 2034? Sure could. But unless there`s a change of heart in the face of rising costs of living and a global recession, the answer is no. There`s nothing that suggests BC will change their minds.

I understand that.  I understand also that government financial support is required.

I did say the bid is not quite dead yet, didn’t I?   ad nauseum several times ive said this.

What you don’t understand is that this is a First Nations led bid.  

When the First Nations peoples say the bid is dead, then the bid is dead - not you or anyone else here from behind their keyboards 

As of right now,  the Vancouver 2030 First Nations led is not dead.

They have a mountain to climb to turn this around over the next 12 months between now and 2025.   It’s not looking good but the First Nations peoples have not given up, not just yet anyway.

 

 

[AustralianFan]

13 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

 

If ever I’m on life support, I want you on my team 

I know we rarely (if ever) see eye to eye but… hope you have a Happy Christmas!

 Thankyou Sir Rols, I hope you too have a Merry Christmas and a Happy 2023 where ever you are with your special ones  Take care 

 

 

[stryker]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:16 PM, AustralianFan said:

I understand that.  I understand also that government financial support is required.

I did say the bid is not quite dead yet, didn’t I?   ad nauseum several times ive said this.

What you don’t understand is that this is a First Nations led bid.  

When the First Nations peoples say the bid is dead, then the bid is dead - not you or anyone else here from behind their keyboards 

As of right now,  the Vancouver 2030 First Nations led is not dead.

 

 

The fact that it's a First Nations led bid bid is a political stunt probably to get around the inevitable referendum. They have no authority here. It's dead when the financiers decide not to put up any money.  There's an old phrase called money talks.

What makes you even think when the BC government has said the issue is finished that somehow they are going to open up the checkbook in the face of a recession?

And this business of not funding the bid being an insult to the First Nations borders on more wokeness

 

[AustralianFan]

10 minutes ago, stryker said:

The fact that it's a First Nations led bid bid is a political stunt probably to get around the inevitable referendum. They have no authority here. It's dead when the financiers decide not to put up any money.  There's an old phrase called money talks.

What makes you even think when the BC government has said the issue is finished that somehow they are going to open up the checkbook in the face of a recession?

And this business of not funding the bid being an insult to the First Nations borders on more wokeness

 

Sorry buddy, you’re not part of the First Nations bidding group.

The candidature is over when they say it’s over, not you or anyone else.

Yes, they have a mountain to climb to turn it around.

 But buddy, you literally cannot pronounce something dead from afar and you’re not even involved. 
 

[StefanMUC]

Stunning how an Australian lectures an American about being far away from Canada and not knowing what he‘s talking about.

 

[Palette86]

67% in Sapporo Oppose 2030 Winter Olympics in New Survey

[Sir Rols]

48 minutes ago, Palette86 said:

67% in Sapporo Oppose 2030 Winter Olympics in New Survey

Well, that’s terrible news. And I don’t even think that’s in resurrectable territory considering the numbers and how soft the initial support was anyway.

[FYI]

Oh, wow. The IOC back in Lausaunne must be spinning their wheels over this. Ponder how much longer the IOC is going to hold out anyway.

[Sir Rols]

I know. The IOC truly is in a worse spot than they were for 2022 and 2026. They literally have no-one for 2030 now, unless they can sweeten the deal with the USOC for SLC.

[Quaker2001]

21 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I know. The IOC truly is in a worse spot than they were for 2022 and 2026. They literally have no-one for 2030 now, unless they can sweeten the deal with the USOC for SLC.

I disagree that this is worse than 2022.  That was a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.  For 2030, they have Salt Lake.  They just have to compensate the USOPC for their troubles.  From a logistical standpoint, they can likely pull off both without major headaches.  It's the money where they'll be hurting, especially when they have to go into negotiations for TV rights for 2034 and beyond with LA and potentially SLC having been a part of the sweetheart deal they gave NBC to cover 2022 through 2032

[Sir Rols]

3 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

I disagree that this is worse than 2022.  That was a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.  For 2030, they have Salt Lake.  They just have to compensate the USOPC for their troubles.  From a logistical standpoint, they can likely pull off both without major headaches.  It's the money where they'll be hurting, especially when they have to go into negotiations for TV rights for 2034 and beyond with LA and potentially SLC having been a part of the sweetheart deal they gave NBC to cover 2022 through 2032

What’s worse is that they only have one candidate, and that candidate is less than enthusiastic. And they’ve already had to cancel any decision they were expected to make on it late last year. Yes, they are able to fall back on SLC, but it’s obviously not the scenario either side wants. 

I don’t think it’s too hyperbolic to say the OC is facing a crisis with the Winter Games, and it’s not climate change that’s the immediate wory.

[Quaker2001]

2 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

What’s worse is that they only have one candidate, and that candidate is less than enthusiastic. And they’ve already had to cancel any decision they were expected to make on it late last year. Yes, they are able to fall back on SLC, but it’s obviously not the scenario either side wants. 

I don’t think it’s too hyperbolic to say the OC is facing a crisis with the Winter Games, and it’s not climate change that’s the immediate wory.

We're on the same page here.  I agree with that assessment.  My point was more than the outcome of where the Olympics were held in 2022 was worse than the likely outcome for 2030.  But yes, the state of the IOC in 2015 wasn't nearly as bad as what it is in 2023.  Some of that is with the benefit of hindsight, but as much as the new norm seems to be helping the cause on the Summer side of things, not so much on the Winter side.  Because it's hard to escape the feeling that the IOC would have handed this to Sapporo already if they could have.  But they can't do that.  So they're kicking the can down the road hoping things will be better later on.  And I don't get the sense things are about to get much better for them

[StefanMUC]

Quick reminder that Fencing 1976 was Japan‘s most hated man two years ago. People don‘t forget that easily…

[iceman530]

dagger, thats your ballgame for Sapporo.

 

[Nacre]

Utah should be a safe pair of hands, and I think that the people there have more enthusiasm for another games than Vancouver, (although that's not based on any actual evidence). 

The problem for Vancouver is that cost of living in the city has gone up tremendously since they won the 2003 bid to host the 2010 games.

https://i0.wp.com/www.homelists.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Greater-Vacnovuer-PriceChart.png?fit=941%2C557&ssl=1

Salt Lake City isn't cheap either, but cost of living isn't nearly as problematic for people there and it should be easier to convince people to accept a small tax hike of some variety.

[TorchbearerSydney]

Hello Almaty, we need to talk!...

[StefanMUC]

1 hour ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

Hello Almaty, we need to talk!...

Rather Oslo, but after the way they were treated during the 2022 campaign, I guess all numbers with a Lausanne area code are now permanently blocked in Norway.

[FYI]

I pondered how long before someone brought up that A-town again. Though, that's not the answer, either. If it was, we would've already heard by now that they were in 'continuous dialog'. Lets not forget that big unrest they had last year this month. And they would also go against the IOC's new, so-called human rights initiatives. Sounds like even more controversy than the IOC already has/needs.

[iceman530]

10 hours ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

Hello Almaty, we need to talk!...

You joke but......

[Nacre]

Kazakhstan is actually possible, IMO.

They are currently trying to diversify their foreign partnerships and move out of Russia's "sphere of influence" to get better relations with Europe and China. (See the Trans-Caspian Gas Pipeline, cooperating with China's "New Silk Road" projects, security guarantee from China in addition to the CSTO, etc.) A winter Olympics would be a good way to publicly show to the whole world that Kazakhstan is an independent player on the world stage instead of a Russian vassal.

And for the same reasons it would be really difficult for the governments of the EU and USA to push Kazakhstan on human rights at the present moment.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Nacre

[FYI]

I don't think that it was meant that way. But for the same group that boast "for the IOC it's 'SUPER safe only' these days - France, Italy, U.S. Australia, & currently 'wooing' U.S. Canada & Japan, & maybe later Germany, Scandinavia, etc. It's good corporate risk management", A-town definitely would not fall under that same category at all.

[FYI]

2 minutes ago, Nacre said:

Kazakhstan is actually possible, IMO.

They are currently trying to diversify their foreign partnerships and move out of Russia's "sphere of influence" to get better relations with Europe and China. (See the Trans-Caspian Gas Pipeline, cooperating with China's "New Silk Road" projects, security guarantee from China in addition to the CSTO, etc.) A winter Olympics would be a good way to publicly show to the whole world that Kazakhstan is an independent player on the world stage instead of a Russian vassal.

Not for 2030, though. The IOC is already having a tough time as it is. Perhaps a later winter Games, once those initiatives that you speak of are firmly demonstrated, the IOC would feel much more comfortable in taking that risk. But as of right now, it wouldn't be 'good corporate, risk management'.

[FYI]

2 hours ago, Nacre said:

A winter Olympics would be a good way to publicly show to the whole world that Kazakhstan is an independent player on the world stage instead of a Russian vassal.

Yeah, sure. Just ask Ukraine how well that worked out for them.