Sapporo 2030: Give them an offer they can't refuse with no bids involved

[Quaker2001]

2 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

But seriously which country would you think will host olympics 2030?, if japan wouldnt want to host olympics in 2030 becuase of the proximity to tokyo 2020, why would the US want to host the games 2 years after la 2028, with all the sponsors involved. On the other hand Vancouver for now is only a private group initiative, and you don't have to be smart enough to sense that in barcelona the bidding efforts will be cancelled for an eventual 2030 world cup bid. As irrational as it may sound, Japan is the most viable host for 2030. On the other hand isn't it insteresting that since 2022 bidding process almost all cities minimally interested in hosting the winter olympics are former winter/summer olympic hosts? (beijing, cortina d'ampezzo, barcelona, sapporo, S.L.C., calgary, vancouver, stockholm, etc...)

And what does that tell us?  Because it means those sites have 1 thing in common.. they all have existing facilities that can be used for a future Olympics.

The days of a bid like Sochi where everything has to be built from scratch are long gone.  The most capable bids are the ones able to use existing infrastructure.  That's why Milano-Cortina is so sensible, because even though it's spread out, it's making use of facilities already in place that are regularly used for World Cup competition.

[AustralianFan]

38 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

That BS is now polluting every thread like those spambots obviously.

The lack of formal bids in the last decade or so has lead to a decline of this forum, but the idea of a clown posting New Norm fan fiction until the Paralympics closing eleven years from now will kill it for sure.

Buddy, you’re clearly stuck in the past.

You clearly find “change” hard to deal with and would rather stick your head in the sand …

 

[baron-pierreIV]

Even if Sapporo might want the Games again, I doubt that the national gov't will want to spend for 2030 again.  They've been taken on one expensive ride already.  I think Japan will wisen up and the IOC will have to beg elsewhere.  It'll be down to Vancouver and/or SLC.  

[AustralianFan]

Eager to chair again, organizer boosts Sapporo’s 2030 Games bid - 6 Sep21 - THE ASAHI SHIMBUN

[iceman530]

9 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Even if Sapporo might want the Games again, I doubt that the national gov't will want to spend for 2030 again.  They've been taken on one expensive ride already.  I think Japan will wisen up and the IOC will have to beg elsewhere.  It'll be down to Vancouver and/or SLC.  

Any hopes that itll be a regional bid in the way Italy was (focused on wealthier principalities footing much of the bill)?  I guess that all depends on the feel of not just Sapporo, but Hokkaido's population.  

The charm offensive needs to begin now, thats for sure.  Hopefully Hokkaido and Sapporo can pull off the miraculous.  I think the ball for Sapporo has just started to roll.  I hope they can keep that going.  Realistically, common sense dictates otherwise, but humans are surprising creatures at times.

[Hightowerio86]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:44 AM, Quaker2001 said:

And what does that tell us?  Because it means those sites have 1 thing in common.. they all have existing facilities that can be used for a future Olympics.

The days of a bid like Sochi where everything has to be built from scratch are long gone.  The most capable bids are the ones able to use existing infrastructure.  That's why Milano-Cortina is so sensible, because even though it's spread out, it's making use of facilities already in place that are regularly used for World Cup competition.

it's the same with Salt Lake City and Vancouver

[stryker]

12 hours ago, iceman530 said:

 

The charm offensive needs to begin now, thats for sure.  Hopefully Hokkaido and Sapporo can pull off the miraculous.  I think the ball for Sapporo has just started to roll.  I hope they can keep that going.  Realistically, common sense dictates otherwise, but humans are surprising creatures at times.

How do you win over the support of a skeptical public that just witnessed the most expensive Olympics in history at shopping financial loss? I'm not even sure Jerry Jones, who could sell ice to Eskimos, could even come up with a marketing pitch for the Sapporo public.

Then there's the matter of the likely new government led by a party that wanted the Tokyo Olympics cancelled 

[Quaker2001]

57 minutes ago, stryker said:

How do you win over the support of a skeptical public that just witnessed the most expensive Olympics in history at shopping financial loss? I'm not even sure Jerry Jones, who could sell ice to Eskimos, could even come up with a marketing pitch for the Sapporo public.

Then there's the matter of the likely new government led by a party that wanted the Tokyo Olympics cancelled 

There will come a time for Sapporo, but not in the immediate aftermath of everything that has happened in Japan the last 2 years.  I think they can warm up the citizens to having a Winter Olympics there, but not until we are on the other end of the pandemic.

[stryker]

3 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

There will come a time for Sapporo, but not in the immediate aftermath of everything that has happened in Japan the last 2 years.  I think they can warm up the citizens to having a Winter Olympics there, but not until we are on the other end of the pandemic.

If that's the case then I'd say 2030 is a no go

[FYI]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:59 PM, baron-pierreIV said:

It'll be down to Vancouver and/or SLC.  

Vancouver is not a slam dunk, either (not like SLC anyway). Has the COC even endorsed them as their official candidate yet (since Quebec City looks like they also want in on the action), as the USOC already has with SLC? Plus, British Columbia is getting stretched financially right now fighting their wildfires. Do they want to throw an Olympic bid & a Winter Games on top of that too?

And with climate change & all, I'd say Sapporo is in a better position going forward with a Winter Games than Vancouver. Also, is the public in Vancouver really onboard for another Games, like is also the case with SLC? I don't think that Vancouver is such a sure thing anymore like some out there are portraying it to be. 

[Chris_Mex]

49 minutes ago, FYI said:

Vancouver is not a slam dunk, either (not like SLC anyway). Has the COC even endorsed them as their official candidate yet (since Quebec City looks like they also want in on the action), as the USOC already has with SLC? Plus, British Columbia is getting stretched financially right now fighting their wildfires. Do they want to throw an Olympic bid & a Winter Games on top of that too?

And with climate change & all, I'd say Sapporo is in a better position going forward with a Winter Games than Vancouver. Also, is the public in Vancouver really onboard for another Games, like is also the case with SLC? I don't think that Vancouver is such a sure thing anymore like some out there are portraying it to be. 

USA and China have the plus that they don't really need referendums to do whatever the f they want because they're rich, so a SLC 2030 bid wouldn't really need people to be onboard with them. But in the other hand they do need sponsors on their side, and they will likely push the organizers towards a 2034 bid to not lose revenue due to an LA olympics two years prior

[iceman530]

I think that is conventional wisdom, that SLC internally is trying to foster 2034 and really.......really really realllllyyy doesnt want to be the 2030 hero and want someone to step up so they can alley-oop and slam dunk 2034.  Enter Sapporo.......an incredibly unlikely choice but one every Olympics fan wants to see desperately.    God Id love a Sapporo games.  I think that would be very high on the priority list for me to see in person.  And that high speed train theyve been preaching about connecting to the venues would be done by then.

[Chris_Mex]

9 minutes ago, iceman530 said:

I think that is conventional wisdom, that SLC internally is trying to foster 2034 and really.......really really realllllyyy doesnt want to be the 2030 hero and want someone to step up so they can alley-oop and slam dunk 2034.  Enter Sapporo.......an incredibly unlikely choice but one every Olympics fan wants to see desperately.    God Id love a Sapporo games.  I think that would be very high on the priority list for me to see in person.  And that high speed train theyve been preaching about connecting to the venues would be done by then.

Agree, I only want sapporo to host the thing because I want to see a japanese games as they should have been. Otherwise I would be rooting for Barcelona's bid, anyway, Japan only need people on their side to get the games, task I believe they can achieve when the pandemic slows down in japan. Barcelona in the other hand not only doesn't have support from citizens (they rather prefer the world cup in 2030), it doesn't even have support from their own country, so its a dead bid

[FYI]

32 minutes ago, Chris_Mex said:

USA and China have the plus that they don't really need referendums to do whatever the f they want because they're rich, so a SLC 2030 bid wouldn't really need people to be onboard with them. 

Ummm, Boston 2024 anyone?? Talk about a bid that was totally derailed (& that was *after* the USOC had already chosen them as their candidate. Talk about egg on their face) because the citizenry there wanted absolutely no part of it (hence, how we wound up with L.A. 2024 pretty much by default).

And of course. let’s also not forget the infamous Denver 1976 fiasco. Where the city literally gave the Games back, two years after the IOC awarded it to them.

[FYI]

Surely that also played a big role in the USOC’s decision, a couple of years back, to choose SLC over Denver. SLC’s support was overwhelming there, while Denver’s was questionable. Didn’t want egg on their face twice (in more ways than one). 

So apparently, not even in the U.S. can Olympic bids ‘do whatever the f they want’ simply because they’re rich. They still have to answer to the citizenry at the end of the day.

[Chris_Mex]

1 hour ago, iceman530 said:

This thing is dad man walking.  They should just stop it before spending any more money and focus on Madrid 2036

 

1 hour ago, FYI said:

Surely that also played a big role in the USOC’s decision, a couple of years back, to choose SLC over Denver. SLC’s support was overwhelming there, while Denver’s was questionable. Didn’t want egg on their face twice (in more ways than one). 

So apparently, not even in the U.S. can Olympic bids ‘do whatever the f they want’ simply because they’re rich. They still have to answer to the citizenry at the end of the day.

Good point, but also I want to aclare that even if Boston didn't work, they still had L.A., when Denver didn't work, they had S.L.C., in China, if beijing doesn't work C.C.P. make it work. In the other hand, if milano and cortina didn't wanted the games its not like torino would say, we are here. Or in Japan, if you can't get sapporo on your side its not like Nagano will want the thing again. For almost the entirety of the world, the alternative is simply not bidding. Even in summer bids, for Brazil, if it wasn't rio, it wouldn't be anywhere else. Or in Australia, if brisbane didn't wanted the games, melbourne either. So yeah, U.S. and China can host the games whenever they want, because they will always have cities that want the thing...or simply just beijing

[ulu]

2 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

USA and China have the plus that they don't really need referendums to do whatever the f they want because they're rich, so a SLC 2030 bid wouldn't really need people to be onboard with them. But in the other hand they do need sponsors on their side, and they will likely push the organizers towards a 2034 bid to not lose revenue due to an LA olympics two years prior

Needing or not needing a referendum has nothing to do with being rich.

[Chris_Mex]

18 minutes ago, ulu said:

Needing or not needing a referendum has nothing to do with being rich.

In a few words, for dictatorial regimes, it doesn't, for the U.S.,yes it does, for the rest of the democratic world, it doesn't

 

 

[baron-pierreIV]

11 hours ago, iceman530 said:

I think that is conventional wisdom, that SLC internally is trying to foster 2034 and really.......really really realllllyyy doesnt want to be the 2030 hero and want someone to step up so they can alley-oop and slam dunk 2034.  Enter Sapporo.......an incredibly unlikely choice but one every Olympics fan wants to see desperately.    God Id love a Sapporo games.  I think that would be very high on the priority list for me to see in person.  And that high speed train theyve been preaching about connecting to the venues would be done by then.

Actually, if SLC had its druthers, they would prefer 2030 because as they had said, some of the venues are starting to fall apart, so 2028 wouldn't be too soon to refurbish them for 2030 use.  Delaying the Games for 2034 means that they probably couldn't start work on the venues until 2032 by which time they would have fallen into further disrepair, hence more expensive to fix up than if they got started on them in 2028!  Now, it's really up to LA 2028 and the US corporate world to see how they can make SLC 2030 a success as well.  Only saving grace for it, is that it is NOT a US election year; and the World Cup has already been played.  

Edited September 9, 2021 by baron-pierreIV

[FYI]

6 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

Good point, but also I want to aclare that even if Boston didn't work, they still had L.A., when Denver didn't work, they had S.L.C., in China, if beijing doesn't work C.C.P. make it work. 

Yeah, sure. But since Boston & Denver didn't work, it's not like the U.S. Gov't or the USOC can "make them" bid, like the CCP would. So in that sense, the comparison to China is not accurate. 

6 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

So yeah, U.S. and China can host the games whenever they want, because they will always have cities that want the thing...or simply just beijing

Not really. Cause the IOC dictates (well, when they can) where the Games are held. The U.S. & not even China, has that power.

And I'm not so sure that the U.S. will always have cities that would want to host, either. We wound up with L.A. again (for 2028) by default, because most of the other U.S. Alpha cities *didn't* want to host the thing (& no one can make them), or were clueless tumbleweed towns like Tulsa, who thought they could fool the powers that be, but were only fooling themselves.

[stryker]

12 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Actually, if SLC had its druthers, they would prefer 2030 because as they had said, some of the venues are starting to fall apart, so 2028 wouldn't be too soon to refurbish them for 2030 use.  Delaying the Games for 2034 means that they probably couldn't start work on the venues until 2032 by which time they would have fallen into further disrepair, hence more expensive to fix up than if they got started on them in 2028!  Now, it's really up to LA 2028 and the US corporate world to see how they can make SLC 2030 a success as well.  Only saving grace for it, is that it is NOT a US election year; and the World Cup has already been played.  

I'd be curious as to what a cost-benefit analysis is on starting renovations in 2028 vs. 2032. Balance that against the expected sponsorship money available. If it's negligible than 2030 makes all the more sense.

I saw Nagano mentioned in a previous post and it got me thinking, if Tokyo wants a do-over why not a Tokyo Winter Olympics in conjunction with Nagano? It's a shorter distance than Milan to Cortina and it already has a train connection. This is in addition to all the venues already being in place, even more than Sapporo. Have all the outdoor events along with speed skating in Nagano (isn't Sapporo planning on using the Nagano sliding track anyway?) then have ice hockey, curling, and figure skating/short track in Tokyo using venues from the 2020 Olympics. And we would finally get a proper ceremonies at the new stadium.

[AustralianFan]

Those doubts remain big time whether a majority of Sapporo citizens will support a Winter Olympic Games in 2030….

 

 

[AustralianFan]

Sapporo Public Survey to be held in January 2022

Editorial: Sapporo needs more than cost-cutting measures to justify Winter Olympic bid - 11Dec21 - The Mainichi

“In January 2022, the Sapporo Municipal Government will hold a forum for discussion with city residents, and in March, a poll of Hokkaido residents' views on the Games will be carried out. A final plan will be compiled in accordance with findings from both.”

[stryker]

On 12/18/2021 at 6:06 AM, AustralianFan said:

Sapporo Public Survey to be held in January 2022

Editorial: Sapporo needs more than cost-cutting measures to justify Winter Olympic bid - 11Dec21 - The Mainichi

“In January 2022, the Sapporo Municipal Government will hold a forum for discussion with city residents, and in March, a poll of Hokkaido residents' views on the Games will be carried out. A final plan will be compiled in accordance with findings from both.”

I'll give them credit for engaging the public on a somewhat grassroots level but it is still going to be an uphill battle for support. With the financial losses of Tokyo still fresh I don't know exactly what the pitch here is other than "don't worry this will be different."

[AustralianFan]

I agree.  I’m not very optimistic about this survey showing a majority of the public behind it now that Tokyo Games are behind us and the final cost estimates of those Games are starting to be reported.  Not an encouraging environment into the survey.