Tokyo 2036! Let's give them a 2nd chance!

[Bear]

47 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

Originally, I thought, based on press reports, Sasaki was mocking Naomi behind her back. I then realized it was actually a lot of har-de-har-ha "Mr Bean" creativity from producers of Olympic ceremonies.

Tokyo Olympics official quits after 'Olympig' comment about Japanese celeb Naomi Watanabe (nbcnews.com)

Quote

Last year he suggested to planning staff members in online “brainstorming exchanges” that well-known entertainer Naomi Watanabe could perform in the ceremony as an “Olympig.”

yeah, it seems like it was a jab at her and not an actual segment that was being actively planned

[Sir Rols]

4 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

I admit I have a different take on the games than other people do. Some will describe my opinion as "codger/geezer," "spoilsport" or "killjoy," etc.

I don’t think people here have a problem with contrarian opinions. What gets tiresome is being bludgeoned via spam posts of those same opinions being repeated here over and over and over and over again. We all have different opinions and favourites things about different games, and things we don’t like so much. But we don’t feel the need to keep repeating over and over to the point of becoming pests. What you need is some new material - posted thoughtfully in appropriate places. 

One other thing - and many of us are guilty of this at times - is putting far too much focus on the ceremonies, which at the end are peripheral to the main purpose of the games: the sports. The ceremonies account for 5-6 hours out of 16 days of sport, and it’s how those sports are run, and how the spectators embrace them, that determine far more whether a games were successful or not, rather than the colour of the seating or the placement of the flags.

[Olympics2028]

On 3/13/2022 at 3:44 AM, Sir Rols said:

I don’t think people here have a problem with contrarian opinions. What gets tiresome is being bludgeoned via spam posts of those same opinions being repeated here over and over and over and over again. We all have different opinions and favourites things about different games, and things we don’t like so much. But we don’t feel the need to keep repeating over and over to the point of becoming pests. What you need is some new material - posted thoughtfully in appropriate places. 

One other thing - and many of us are guilty of this at times - is putting far too much focus on the ceremonies, which at the end are peripheral to the main purpose of the games: the sports. The ceremonies account for 5-6 hours out of 16 days of sport, and it’s how those sports are run, and how the spectators embrace them, that determine far more whether a games were successful or not, rather than the colour of the seating or the placement of the flags.

 

However, hashing out the subject of "Should Tokyo get another games?" allowed me to know more about the 1952 games in Helsinki. It showed that organizing committees have been doing odd or funky things for way more than 50 years.

It also fleshed out the details about what the producers for 2020 (pre-pandemic) were planning to do with the comedienne Naomi Watanabe. The story board for her, as posted by bear, was a case of "Huh?...WTF?!"

The first Olympics in Tokyo influenced Hollywood and comedy (bad or otherwise).

By contrast, the 2020-2021 Olympics were influenced by Hollywood and comedy (bad or otherwise).

 

 

[SeriousPotato]

I gotta level with you, O2028.. Your postings reflect an ignorant and uncurious person who, when confronted with anything you don't understand that might be even slightly challenging, lashes out in hostility. You seem to genuinely think the world revolves around you.

These things you call funky are things that have deep and profound reverence in their home countries. What you're calling ugly and stupid is a phantasmagoria of a whole nation's childhood memories and intimate feelings of home being shared on a world scale. You don't have to always like it, but show some basic respect for it.

[Olympics2028]

28 minutes ago, SeriousPotato said:

These things you call funky are things that have deep and profound reverence in their home countries.

 

So you think this would have had deep and profound reverence for Japan, Tokyo and its 1964 Olympics?:

 

On 3/12/2022 at 8:22 PM, Bear said:

Unfortunately, I think it was said that Hiroshi Sasaki hijacked these original plans by MIKIKO, and edited them so Naomi's role would be reduced to just being an "Olympig" (which was never part of the original plan). Once word got out of the Olympig plan by Sasaki, he was forced to resign: Tokyo Olympics Official Resigns After Calling Plus-Size Celebrity ‘Olympig’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Sir Rols]

15 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

 

So you think this would have had deep and profound reverence for Japan, Tokyo and its 1964 Olympics?:

 

You do realise that Japanese culture is about more than tea ceremonies, flower arrangement and Noh? It’s also about manga and anime, cosplay, distinctive modernist urban living and a zany sense of humour - all of which probably chime far more with the average Japanese citizen of today, and which they’re far keener to display to the world, than some centuries-old stereotypes.

@SeriousPotatowasn’t wrong, you do seem to regard the games as some High Holy Rite, that must not be sullied by earthly attitudes. For all the mythologizing of them, they’re not sacred sacraments - they’re entertainment. And you do seem to struggle to understand and appreciate  how various hosts aspire to show off what they feel is important to their sense of identity - the Greeks pride in their intellectual heritage, the British sense of self-deprecating humour and stamp on popular music, the Japanese embrace of modernism. 

And again, you focus far too much on the ceremonies, which are ultimately only peripheral, almost trivial, to the overall quality of a games. You seem like the type of person who would go to see Hamilton, not actually pay much attention to the show, but when asked about the performance go on to complain about the colour of the tickets or the arrangement of paper cocktail umbrellas in the theatre bar. 

[Olympics2028]

29 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

You do realise that Japanese culture is about more than tea ceremonies, flower arrangement and Noh?

 

I don't think Naomi Watanabe being an "Olympig" is exactly the right approach. The concept around her - and two different producers apparently were toying with variations of the same thing - riffed on an Olympig theme. That didn't sound appropriate for a Tokyo Olympics opening.  At least one that wasn't going for the har-de-har-ha angle.

That doesn't mean, however, I think they should have gone with tea ceremonies, flower arrangements and Noh.

[Olympics2028]

37 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

And again, you focus far too much on the ceremonies, which are ultimately only peripheral, almost trivial, to the overall quality of a games.

My sense is that an organizing committee has three major goals to deal with: (1) Keeping the budget under control, (2) Maximizing attendance figures and (3)  Professionalism in a games' format (transit, logo, mascots, ceremonies).

1996 and 2012 are two recent Olympics that achieved high water marks in at least one of those 3 areas. Atlanta 1996 remains the most heavily attended games in Olympic history. London 2012 attracted the largest TV audience in Olympic history.

My interest in the 2028 Olympics (and the 2024 one too) is how they'll deal with those three major categories.

For now, the ins and outs of ceremonies can be scrutinized a bit more than the other categories are.

[Sir Rols]

11 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

I don't think Naomi Watanabe being an "Olympig" is exactly the right approach.

For the 1000th time, “Olympig” was a slur that Sasaki used that got him sacked. NOT the concept behind using Watanabe’s comedic talents.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Sir Rols

[Olympics2028]

Just now, Sir Rols said:

For the 1000th time, “Olympic” was a slur that Sasaki used that got him sacked. NOT the concept behind using Watanabe’s comedic talents.

But the very fact he was even riffing on aspects of the storyboard his predecessor created for Watanabe was all by itself an "oh-oh" moment. 

[Sir Rols]

1 minute ago, Olympics2028 said:

But the very fact he was even riffing on aspects of the storyboard his predecessor created for Watanabe was all by itself an "oh-oh" moment. 

No, he was sacked for the personal slur, not the concept. No reason the storyboard (which DOESN’T show any pigs ears or snouts) couldn’t have worked and been popular,

[Olympics2028]

7 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

No, he was sacked for the personal slur, not the concept. No reason the storyboard (which DOESN’T show any pigs ears or snouts) couldn’t have worked and been popular,

The general point I want to make is that the notion of Naomi Watanabe as some type of holy keeper of the 1964 Olympics and the 1960 games too, etc, might just as well have riffed on the theme of the actual book titled "Olympig."

Again, that's my tastes, my opinion. If you feel otherwise, great. That's fine with me.

This thread is themed to whether Tokyo should host the Olympics all over again. Based on my opinion, even if the 2020 games hadn't been negatively affected by Covid, but still went along with the original ideas for things like its ceremonies, that - unlike the 1964 Olympics - I'd feel more, "hey, why bother?"

 

[Sir Rols]

10 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

The general point I want to make is that the notion of Naomi Watanabe as some type of holy keeper of the 1964 Olympics and the 1960 games too, etc, might just as well have riffed on the theme of the actual book titled "Olympig."

Again, that's my tastes, my opinion. If you feel otherwise, great. That's fine with me.

This thread is themed to whether Tokyo should host the Olympics all over again. Based on my opinion, even if the 2020 games hadn't been negatively affected by Covid, but still went along with the original ideas for things like its ceremonies, that - unlike the 1964 Olympics - I'd feel more, "hey, why bother?"

 

Why do you have to interpret it as “holy keeper”? Why can’t it just be accepted as a light-hearted segment amidst a lot of other segments - some light-hearted, some solemn?

As to Tokyo hosting again - that’s basically prompted by the notion of sympathy that covid robbed the Japanese, and the world, of the full enjoyment they could have got from an unrestricted games. Many were disappointed, for example, that man of the original concepts floated for the ceremonies were abandoned due to covid. I doubt you would have liked them though - some of them were steeped in Japanese manga, anime and video gaming culture.

[Olympics2028]

18 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I doubt you would have liked them though - some of them were steeped in Japanese manga, anime and video gaming culture.

If I were a Tokyoite and big fan of the Olympics, I'd be both very disappointed and exasperated by how things turned out.

If the budget had at least been kept under control, that would have helped. If attendance hadn't been wrecked by Covid, that would have really helped.

If the 1964 National Stadium at least hadn't been torn down - along with its classic cauldron - that would have helped too.

There are a lot of moving parts to any games. So although the ceremonies are important from a superficial standpoint (hey, the Olympics after all are a sporting event), they're only one section of all those parts. But to me the ceremonies looked like they weren't going to be impressive, regardless of Covid.

Yep, to everyone: YMMV. For instance, 2012's opening was not to my tastes. But they got big ratings and a lot of positive press and commentary.

Times and tastes change. So a movie made over 50 years ago and influenced by the 1964 games wouldn't fit anime coolness, and anime coolness wouldn't fit the 1964 Olympics.

 

[SportLightning]

I don't think Tokyo could host the Olympics again as they did twice in 1964 and 2020 (2021).

[Australian Kiwi]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:06 PM, SportLightning said:

I don't think Tokyo could host the Olympics again as they did twice in 1964 and 2020 (2021).

It could host for a third or fourth or sixth time like Los Angeles or Johor Bahru.