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Tokyo 2036! Let's give them a 2nd chance!


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1 hour ago, AliciasBlade said:

So, Tokyo 2036?

If expo 2025 succeed and sapporo gets a succesful 2030 winter olympics, we may talk about a bid for 2036 onwards, 2036 seems a little too soon. But considering brisbane 2032, LA 28,and london wanting to host again soon and also beijing distance between olympics, it may not sound as crazy as it does on first sight. Also it'd be important to see how 2036 race developes, realisticaly, from the already speculated bids, a korean bid (probably reforced with an expo 2030 hosting/2034 world cup bid), spanish(reforced with the 2030 world cup/2034 winter olympic bid) or an istanbul bid (reforced by a 2032 euro/2024 champions league final) can be good options for the event, but wouldn't rule out japan (reforced by a 2025 expo hosting/2030 winter olympics), it'd be more like a warm up bid, as nagoya in 1988. Another possible bid I think can finally succed in 2036 is budapest (2023 athletics world cup/ 2017,2025 Fina/ Euro 2020 host city), which keeping on track with brisbane scaled down olympics, can be a good follow up for the sustainable model.

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12 hours ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

and at 06:20- an unidentified woman barges onto the officials microphone podium and is escorted away- now that's a protest!!!

 

lol. I think she just stumbled as she was walking off the podium and the guy nearby tried to steady her.

That lighting ceremony in 1952, however, was strange. I can't tell if the guy who put what looks like a burning broomstick to the tiki-torch-type cauldron on top of the tower was one of the former athletes or a stadium maintenance worker.

I'm glad I now know about Helsinki 1952. It shows me that organizing committees have been doing funky things for a lot longer than I realized. lol.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

and london wanting to host again soon

 

Did a lot of Londoners get that much of a kick out of hosting the Olympics?

If the Olympic village used for 2012 is still available, however, and a few other major venues for 2012 can be rather easily resurrected, why not?

I personally think the IOC should stop treating the summer games as a constantly traveling circus.

For instance, because the winter Olympics can't be held at as many locations as the summer games can be, the IOC is forced to field fewer potential host cities. But the summer games should be narrowed down to a smaller rotation too.

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RE: Helsinki protester.....

Wiki:

After the Olympic flame was lit, the Archbishop Ilmari Salomies was due to say a prayer, but German Barbara Rotbraut-Pleyer, nicknamed “White Angel of the Games”, had jumped from the auditorium onto the track and ran straight to the speaker's seat. Organizers quickly removed Pleyer, who had time to say just a few words into the microphone. Pleyer's purpose was to proclaim a message of peace.

 

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^ Thanks for making me look up more about not just the way the cauldron was handled in 1952, but also about that political moment of those games.

The head of the 2028 Olympics has said he wants the games to become more political, not less.

Given the odd torch-lighting and cauldron format used in 1952, and that small tiki torch on the tall tower, he might just as well say that he also wants the Olympics to become even funkier than they've already become. lol

https://www.cfr.org/timeline/olympics-boycott-protest-politics-history

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This image from that link more closely fits the theme of a thread about Tokyo. It also reminds me why I'm not a big fan of Tokyo's new National Stadium. Sorry, but the seats of the stadium make me miss the classic look of the old 1964 stadium even more.

As for Tokyoites wanting to cancel the 2020-2021 games and their wanting to host the games again?

Personally, if what has been going on with the summer/winter Olympics for the past several years - including the overspending, overbuilding, increasing politicization, funky ceremonies, etc - washes over into 2028, I wouldn't mind the games in LA being cancelled too.

 

2021_Tokyo.webp

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34 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

This image from that link more closely fits the theme of a thread about Tokyo. It also reminds me why I'm not a big fan of Tokyo's new National Stadium. Sorry, but the seats of the stadium make me miss the classic look of the old 1964 stadium even more.

As for Tokyoites wanting to cancel the 2020-2021 games and their wanting to host the games again?

Personally, if what has been going on with the summer/winter Olympics for the past several years - including the overspending, overbuilding, increasing politicization, funky ceremonies, etc - washes over into 2028, I wouldn't mind the games in LA being cancelled too.

 

2021_Tokyo.webp

On first place, tokyoites wanted the games, just not in the midst of a DAMN PANDEMIC. And in second place literally in other thread you were too enthusiastic of an LA 28 protocolary and old fashioned ceremony to now come here and say that you don't mind them cancelled?

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3 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

This image from that link more closely fits the theme of a thread about Tokyo. It also reminds me why I'm not a big fan of Tokyo's new National Stadium. Sorry, but the seats of the stadium make me miss the classic look of the old 1964 stadium even more.

2021_Tokyo.webp

I actually like the trend to using colour and patterns in modern stadium seating. It’s refreshing and new, and can even “liven” up older stadiums. Tokyo was following a trend, not setting it.

51935081040_b2e12e6ba2_o.jpg 51933485412_544ac716fd_m.jpg 51933485417_c656f94966_m.jpg

51934536358_dda132bd1d.jpg 51933485392_2b8a1e62cc_m.jpg

3 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

Personally, if what has been going on with the summer/winter Olympics for the past several years - including the overspending, overbuilding, increasing politicization, funky ceremonies, etc - washes over into 2028, I wouldn't mind the games in LA being cancelled too.

I have no idea how old you are - you could be a teenager for all I know. But honestly, most of your posts come across as an old cranky boomer lamenting the golden days of the 1950s and genuinely puzzled and perplexed at what the young generation gets up to nowadays.

Times have moved on. We get it - you’ve established ad nauseum over hundreds of posts that you long for the 2028 games to go back to a simpler black and white era where a ceremony meant no more than teams marching in, maybe a tasteful choir but definitely no pop stars, no “cultural” elements, a few speeches and then a simple flame being lit in a unflashy cauldron. Thing is, that’s just not going to fly any more in today’s entertainment landscape. That’s all as enticing to modern spectators as the Dean Martin Hour or the Lawrence Welk Orchestra.

And the thing is also, your nostalgia for “simpler”, more “austere” games of yore is really rose coloured glasses and not the reality of how the modern games have always been.

Overspending/overbuilding? From the very beginning, the games have embraced new showcase buildings to project national pride. From Greek millionaires financing the Panathenaic Stadium for Athens 1996, through Stockholm’s 1912 Olympiastadion, to Berlin’s 1936 stadium to Kenzo Tange’s multiple buildings for 1964, to Munich’s Olympiapark and onwards - the Olympics have long been a showcase for new architecture and a circuit breaker to inspire new public works. Now, you may not be a fan of new architecture - that’s your personal taste - but the fact is a lot of older sports infrastructure just doesn’t work as it should now in the modern world and need refurbishing or replacing to serve what’s expected by the market. But that’s not to say the Olympics are blind to changing attitudes to spending as well - the IOC does seem to be making efforts to discourage over-spending and encouraging the use of existing assets in future games.

Increasing politicisation? Where do I start? The games have be political since inception. Baron de Coubertin conceived of them to help toughen the reach up against future threats from Germany. The use of national teams and flags mean they’re de-facto political. Just off-the-cuff, the long list of Games-related political events is exhaustive: British-US rivalry in 1908; the vanquished WWI central powers being banned from 1920 and 1924; the glorification of Nazism at 1936; Russian insistence on a separate east-bloc Olympic village in 1952; bloodied fights between Soviet and Hungarian athletes in 1956; student massacres on the eve of Mexico 1968; the Munich attacks; boycotts and sanctions over Apartheid, the Soviet-Afghan invasion, the Yugoslavian civil wars, and now the invasion of the Ukraine. Politics has long been part and parcel of the games - inevitable for an organisation promoting internationalism through competition between national entities. 

“Funky” ceremonies? As I addressed it above, you do sound like an old codger with that continuing complaint. Your “funky” ceremonies is to other people magical entertainment that lifts the spirits and inspires. It’s what is demanded from modern entertainment. Broadcaster and spectator needs aren’t going to be served any more by a solemn march, a simple choir and a few speeches. Not every part of every ceremony is going to appeal to everyone. But they’ve evolved to meet the broad expectations of the hosts, the world TV audience and the TV rights holders for a general audience appeal and major event drawcard. There’s no going back. Flooding the forums with “segments that  I didn’t like” in past games ceremonies isn’t going to stop the march of progress.

 

Edited by Sir Rols
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^ It's not the format of multi-colored seating in the new Tokyo National Stadium that I don't care for. Those examples you post look fine to me. It's the particular colors chosen by the new stadium's architect that I don't care for.

And, yes, politics have always been a part of the Olympics for decades. But there are politics and then there are [[[politics]]]. Just like there's overweight (say, 220 pounds) and then there's [[[overweight]]] (say, 395 pounds).

Same thing with overspending and overbuilding.

As for "codger" and funky Olympic ceremonies. The 1952 games show that organizing committees have done funky things for over 70 years. I'm not quite as old as that.

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Thought this video was very interesting. And it ties into the theme of this thread since it partly pertains to the track used at the 1964 Olympics in Tokyo.

Incidentally, Rols, the video also shows glimpses of a smaller-sized stadium in Oregon, one that, similar to the new stadium in Tokyo, also uses a multi-colored seat format. But that facility's architect chose a color theme that looks good to me.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

^ It's not the format of multi-colored seating in the new Tokyo National Stadium that I don't care for. Those examples you post look fine to me. It's the particular colors chosen by the new stadium's architect that I don't care for.

The colours used - gold, deep red, olive green - are actually those used in Tokyo’s official logo and “look” colour scheme. Who knows whether they get used in the stadium in future? But again, taste. I think they’re classy and tasteful. Whereas the bland baby blue splashed around Beijing was a snooze feast to me.

26 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

And, yes, politics have always been a part of the Olympics for decades. But there are politics and then there are [[[politics]]]. Just like there's overweight (say, 220 pounds) and then there's [[[overweight]]] (say, 395 pounds).

Hmmm. Actually, I’d regard the most recent politicisations - basically the sanctions against Russia and Belarus - pretty mild compared to those of he past - the Nazi hijacking’s of 1936, the death tolls of 1968 and 1972, the extremely divisive boycott debates of 1980. If the latest actions are eyebrow raising, it’s more of the fact that the IOC actually had some guts to do something.

34 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

Same thing with overspending and overbuilding.

Actually, if you took inflation into account, many of the spending and building sprees of he past - say, Tokyo 1964 and Munich 1972 - wouldn’t fly in public opinion today. And again, if anything, that’s an area where the IOC is now actively trying  to discourage profligacy to day.

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15 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Actually, if you took inflation into account, many of the spending and building sprees of he past - say, Tokyo 1964 and Munich 1972 - wouldn’t fly in public opinion today.

Of course, the value of money has changed through the decades. But I never thought of Tokyo 1964 - compared with Tokyo 2020 - as breaking the bank.

I found this (on page 11):

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1607/1607.04484.pdf

Quote

The lowest cost per event was found for Tokyo 1964 at USD 1.7 million for the Summer games and Innsbruck 1964 at USD 0.6 million for the Winter Games.

 

Something about Tokyo's original National Stadium had a plain, simple dignity that I've always admired:

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

Something about Tokyo's original National Stadium had a plain, simple dignity that I've always admired:

Yes, sure. It was nice for it’s time. Pity it outlived its usefulness. But happily it has been replaced by a stadium with its own beauty and dignity.

51934738163_c662af5c53.jpg

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A World Athletics Championships would be good for Tokyo and the Olympic Stadium. A good way to utilise the stadium as it was meant to be. 

I don't get where all the stuff about London wanting to host again so soon has come from... all i hear from the UK is about the football hosting, if anything.

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Although 1952 shows that organizing committees have done funky things to an Olympic games for over 70 years, there's funky and then there's [[[funky]]]. This is very funky. Funky and juvenile too.

The original producer of 2020 apparently wanted a well-know Japanese comedienne to be his ceremony's version of 2012's Mr Bean. Har-de-har-ha. The overweight comedienne and a bad play on "Olympics" and "pig" is another example of how people are approaching the games as a big joke.

I saw a posted playbook of the original ceremony (which was dropped after the pandemic) and it read as another version of the increasingly hokey, har-de-har-ha openings of Olympic games.

https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/news/a35871051/tokyo-olympics-creative-chief-resigns-olympig-comments/

 

Quote

Hiroshi Sasaki has resigned after suggesting plus-size entertainer Naomi Watanabe could perform as an 'Olympig' at the opening ceremony, in the latest setback for the games.

Sasaki suggested plus-size entertainer Naomi Watanabe could wear pig ears at the opening ceremony.

In a statement released by the Games, Sasaki said, 'There was a very inappropriate expression in my ideas and remarks. I sincerely apologise to her and people who have felt discomfort with such content.'

Naomi Watanabe is yet to respond to the comments but is one of Japan's most famous comedians, known for her celebrity impersonations and body positivity work.

Sasaki, who was in charge of the Olympic opening and closing ceremonies, made the suggestions regarding Watanabe last year via a group chat. His colleagues immediately rejected the proposals and told Saski his comments were inappropriate.

 

Things like this are why "Olympic" has lost some of its sheen in branding over the years.

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14 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

Although 1952 shows that organizing committees have done funky things to an Olympic games for over 70 years, there's funky and then there's [[[funky]]]. This is very funky. Funky and juvenile too.

The original producer of 2020 apparently wanted a well-know Japanese comedienne to be his ceremony's version of 2012's Mr Bean. Har-de-har-ha. The overweight comedienne and a bad play on "Olympics" and "pig" is another example of how people are approaching the games as a big joke.

Yes, again, we get it. I don’t think there’s any member on this board who is unaware that you don’t like comedy in the ceremonies. You think the games should be solemn and dignified.

And many others, myself included,  like the comedy. I think the IOC and the Olympics takes itself too seriously and has a sense of self importance and that they deserve a bit of pie in the face sometimes. I think it shows maturity on the part of the hosts if they have the self confidence to laugh at themselves and prick the solemnity of the gams.

Edited by Sir Rols
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10 minutes ago, Scotguy II said:

I don't get where all the stuff about London wanting to host again so soon has come from... all i hear from the UK is about the football hosting, if anything.

I don’t think there’s a major groundswell for London again atm. The most concrete thing we’ve seen is that UK Govt report saying they’d favour a bid from the regions or the north sometime in the undisclosed future.

Whereas the Tokyo talk is more just sympathy that covid robbed them of enjoying the host experience to the full.

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24 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

And many others, myself included,  like the comedy. I think the IOC and the Olympics takes itself too seriously and has a sense of self importance and that they deserve a bit of pie in the face sometimes.

There's comedy and then there's [[[comedy]]].

Naomi Watanabe apparently was originally going to follow some lame plot device where she represented the goddess of the 1964 Tokyo games. Of some goofy idea like that. I guess the producer was thinking of having her dressed up as an "Olympig," wearing a pig nose, carrying a wand and fly in on wings. Or whatever.

Oink-oink. Har-de-har-ha.

A good time would have been had by all.

This originally was going to be 2020's version of 2012's Rowan Atkinson. So if Tokyo gets another Olympics, will a non-pandemic opening feature a segment like this?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

This originally was going to be 2020's version of 2012's Rowan Atkinson. So if Tokyo gets another Olympics, will a non-pandemic opening feature a segment like this?

I hope so…

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5 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I hope so…

 

Me too. But she wouldn't be wearing a pig nose. She'd be wearing pig ears. Big difference.

 

Quote

TOKYO — It was few people's idea of funny. For the opening ceremony of the Tokyo Olympics, its creative director, Hiroshi Sasaki, envisioned a popular comedian and plus-size fashion designer, Naomi Watanabe, decked out in pig ears, tumbling from the sky as an Olympic messenger. Or, as he put it, an “Olympig.”

 

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14 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

Me too. But she wouldn't be wearing a pig nose. She'd be wearing pig ears. Big difference.

And honestly, why not? If she’s a popular comedian, she must have some appeal. No reason it couldn’t work as long as it’s broad enough to transcend language.

i know you love sneering at Rowan Atkinson at 2012. But, IMO, he was the perfect fit for an Olympics ceremony. First he’s a British icon, and second but most importantly, his appeal transcends boundaries. His Mr Bean creation is so hugely popular across the world because, like such other greats as Charlie Chaplin or Jacques Tati, the humour doesn’t rely on language, is almost totally visual, yet goes beyond mere slapstick in that it touches chords through mannerisms and facial expressions. He was a perfect, and widely recognisable, foil to reach out to a wider world audience. And it did seem to be one of he more universally popular segments of the 2012 OC.

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re: Naomi and "Olympig" -

For starters, the first, original plan was by MIKIKO, not Sasaki.

Originally, Naomi was supposed to be participating as a figure linking past Olympiads before appearing in the Olympic Stadium in 2020:

aramajapan.com-screenshot-20210808-22303

aramajapan.com-screenshot-20210808-223057-chrome-1024x455.jpg

Unfortunately, I think it was said that Hiroshi Sasaki hijacked these original plans by MIKIKO, and edited them so Naomi's role would be reduced to just being an "Olympig" (which was never part of the original plan). Once word got out of the Olympig plan by Sasaki, he was forced to resign: Tokyo Olympics Official Resigns After Calling Plus-Size Celebrity ‘Olympig’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

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^ Thanks for posting that. That's what I was referring to when I was trying to remember what Watanabe was being prepped for.

I also appreciate Rols and Torchbearer for giving more insight into the history of the Olympics and why certain ideas or decisions have become so widespread for several years. Or decades.

Yep, I realize what I prefer, others may not like, and what others like, I won't like. That's just the way things are.

But what's ridiculous is that the former producer, riffing off bad ideas from another producer, got terminated because his bad ideas were perceived as a slur or insult to an overweight female entertainer. Not that they were just bad creative ideas.

Originally, I thought, based on press reports, Sasaki was mocking Naomi behind her back. I then realized it was actually a lot of har-de-har-ha "Mr Bean" creativity from producers of Olympic ceremonies.

I wonder if 2020 producers wanted to pipe in a loud fart sound and the sound of flushing toilets?

Har-de-har-ha.

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6 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

On first place, tokyoites wanted the games, just not in the midst of a DAMN PANDEMIC. And in second place literally in other thread you were too enthusiastic of an LA 28 protocolary and old fashioned ceremony to now come here and say that you don't mind them cancelled?

If 2028 leaves me with the same impression that recent summer Olympic games have done, then, yea, I won't mind if they're cancelled before they get to that point.

I admit I have a different take on the games than other people do. Some will describe my opinion as "codger/geezer," "spoilsport" or "killjoy," etc.

Personally, I read that when the 1964 games began, the flags of all the participating nations were raised in unison. Which is another reason why I liked the original stadium. The new one lacks a feature like that: Flags have to hang down just like shirts or pillow cases on a laundry line.

I admit I prefer the sight of a small detail like the one in 1964. Which to me is more "Olympics" as compared with Olympig. But that's just me. So YMMV.

 

 

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