iceman530 Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 I know surprisingly Ukraine was gonna try and give this another whirl. There was chatter in January, and not much since. God, I don't like the idea, but it is on the board, and trying to look at the bright side of things, maybe it could help tourist infrastructure in Lviv and the Carpathians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 hour ago, iceman530 said: I know surprisingly Ukraine was gonna try and give this another whirl. There was chatter in January, and not much since. God, I don't like the idea, but it is on the board, and trying to look at the bright side of things, maybe it could help tourist infrastructure in Lviv and the Carpathians? Too much bad blood between Ukraine and Russia right now with the military conflict still ongoing. It would also require a massive amount of spending which Ukraine does not have at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted August 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 58 minutes ago, stryker said: Too much bad blood between Ukraine and Russia right now with the military conflict still ongoing. It would also require a massive amount of spending which Ukraine does not have at this time. I would think that too. Believe me, There are 8,756,189 other things that Ukraine should be spending their money on besides the Winter Olympics, but.......countries like this aren't known for making the best financial decisions. And as much as we wished Ukraine was reforming, there is still a corrupt faction that would love the opportunity to skim off the top a-la Sochi. LIS, Im devastated Ukraine is not reforming faster, love the people, love the country, but man, they feel like a long way off. Ukraine's red team counterpoint would be that the Line of Conflict would be what, at least 500 miles away from the games, even if some venues were in Kyiv? Red-Team talking point #2, morale booster for a nation that has a frozen conflict and a drastically shrinking demographic population. Honestly, this seems like the sort of bid that the IOC would get predatory enough to facilitate it to happen. Things are weird and backward now........ I admit, I didn't even write off Erzurum from 2026. I was actually impressed that the IOC voluntarily removed them from contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted August 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 It could be the WOG version of Brazil is my fear, driving Ukraine to near collapse financially Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 Ukraine is too financially & politically fragile at this point in time to even be considered at all. Not to mention that Ukraine is always under Putin's thumb. He'd love nothing more than to be able to go just marching in there. To quote Stefan, the IOC shouldn't be touching Ukraine with a 'barge pole'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2005 Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 Hell no. there is no way the IOC would even consider Ukraine over a Salt Lake City bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1112913/ukraine-interest-hosting-future-olympics Either the IOC is really desperate or more likely, Ukraine is testing the waters as to when they might actually be considered as a serious candidate for a WOGs. A city is not even identified. It certainly wouldn't be a bid that fits the new norm as nearly everything will have to be built from scratch never mind the fact the country is at war with Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 The Ukraine smells the desperation. But surely the IOC won't bite, unless they're on a suicide mission. It'd be like a mini Sochi, in terms of the amount of money that would need to be spent. Total opposite of the so-called Agenda 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Mex Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 Considering there has been almost 5 years since we last listened from an exotic bid, I believe is normal to consider this kind of bids a no go, but considering the state of the olympics right now, IOC may look after bids from smaller nations to get the event into another smaller nations. If that doens't happens we are going to end up with the same 8 countries (china, US, italy, russia,canada, france, korea and japan) hosting each edition (althought I support sapporo in this one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted September 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 Everything about this doesnt make sense for multiple reasons. Thats exactly why I fear the probability of it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Chris_Mex said: but considering the state of the olympics right now, IOC may look after bids from smaller nations to get the event into another smaller nations. If that doens't happens we are going to end up with the same 8 countries (china, US, italy, russia,canada, france, korea and japan) hosting each edition (althought I support sapporo in this one). Considering the state of the Olympics right now is precisely why the IOC needs to stay far, far away from a bid like this (it's a bid like this that got them into this mess in the first place. See Sochi). It's certainly not cost effective, & that's even before contemplating all of the geopolitical ramifications, particularly with Russia. The Olympics are a luxury-ticket item that only comes around once every four years (winter & summer alternating every two). So that means not every single country on the planet can afford to host as a result, even though some *think* that they can. So if only eight nations are continuously on the roster, then so be it. That's still a different country every 32 years. But can't sacrifice quality of the Games simply for the sake of an "exotic" bid. When the time is right, the IOC will make that type of journey again. But that time is certainly not now, & certainly not with a bid like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted September 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 well, now we have our absolute bottom rung fallback now at least if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 I don't think it even a fallback option. It's at war with Russia. Russia annexed Crimea and they control significant areas in the Donbass region. This past spring, Putin massed multiple infantry and armored divisions along the border stoking fears of a full scale Russian invasion to occupy the rest of the country. That should be enough for the IOC to say no thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted September 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 I do. The frozen conflict is literally 800 miles away from the potential games location. If Russia wants to be the literal shitstain of current political affairs for the next 100 years, then I guess they will do it. But Im not sure Putin would do that. The massing of troops is always a seasonal ploy. It was a strategic long game message to Joe Biden that Russia means business and they will rattle cages, so do not mess with the status quo. Ukraine is still a functioning state. Its arguably better off without the old Donbas rust belt regions. Russia could invade the country, but it could not hold the country. So long as there was any resistance, the best they could do is a land bridge via Mariupol to Crimea, and even that will be a massive logistical ask for the Russian army to hold. Its a valid opinion, I can absolutely see why someone would see through that lens, but I respectfully do not think that would negate Ukraine. Lviv is not Erzerum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 Lviv is also, by far, not SLC, Vancouver or Sapporo. And that's where the IOC should be working overtime with. And not some fly by night, just for the sake of it option, simply because it's on the table. To use one of your analogies, would you take the ugliest person in school (that would need a massive makeover just to be presentable) to the prom simply because all the studs or beauty queens said no to you. I don't get what's with all these "doomsday, scraping the bottom of the barrel" scenarios just for the hell of it. I know these boards aren't what they use to be, but seriously, this is all capricious mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted September 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 Well I think everyone has figured that out, no one is questioning that. Lviv absolutely isnt SLC, Vancouver, or Sapporo. Everyone hopes for those three. It is a significant step down in everyone's hopes. Hell, Im not even sure Lviv is Almaty. Almaty at least has the compactness and some of the stuff in place. But..........this is not Erzerum. That might not count for much, but it counts for something. I am relieved. I freely admit, I am relieved. Because now we have an emergency reserve parachute. We have our last resort. Frankly, I do not even think we had that before. The security of having padding from a landing is re-assuring, no matter where it comes from. It is absolutely imperfect in just about every facet someone can think of. Its gonna cost a ton (Im thinking 25-30 billion USD just building a lot of this from scratch), but it is cold enough for a real winter, it has sport culture. But there is no fear of no olympics if the big three fall through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Mex Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 53 minutes ago, iceman530 said: Well I think everyone has figured that out, no one is questioning that. Lviv absolutely isnt SLC, Vancouver, or Sapporo. Everyone hopes for those three. It is a significant step down in everyone's hopes. Hell, Im not even sure Lviv is Almaty. Almaty at least has the compactness and some of the stuff in place. But..........this is not Erzerum. That might not count for much, but it counts for something. I am relieved. I freely admit, I am relieved. Because now we have an emergency reserve parachute. We have our last resort. Frankly, I do not even think we had that before. The security of having padding from a landing is re-assuring, no matter where it comes from. It is absolutely imperfect in just about every facet someone can think of. Its gonna cost a ton (Im thinking 25-30 billion USD just building a lot of this from scratch), but it is cold enough for a real winter, it has sport culture. But there is no fear of no olympics if the big three fall through. Is someone outside US or canada really hoping for vancouver or salt lake in 2030?, at least sapporo would be like the effort of japan to host the games that they should have hosted last year, barcelona like a more democratic beijing 2022, and ukraine like a less flamboyant sochi, but the other two are like another anglo-speaking countries games between L.A. and brisbane... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 LVIV is now in the picture. Apparently, until Crimea happened in between the 2 Sochi Games, LVIV was an early candidate for 2022. So this isn't coming straight out of the blue. The IOC has an early file on Lviv. And knowing the problems with Sapporo, a lukewarm Vancouver and a push-back LA 2028, it just might be Lviv's time. Now, to find that pesky sliding track and the site for a Village; and the IOC might have its candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 It's not much of a file to start with, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 Well, obviously not everyone has figured that out. I'm sure that the IOC is just so 'relieved' by their recent 'emergency reserve parachute'. A bid that would cost not that far behind Sochi, in a not-so robust economy, right next door to a neighboring country who has hostile intentions towards them. The IOC must be so 'reassured' in that last resort ugly ducking to take to the school dance. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted September 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 9 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said: LVIV is now in the picture. Apparently, until Crimea happened in between the 2 Sochi Games, LVIV was an early candidate for 2022. So this isn't coming straight out of the blue. The IOC has an early file on Lviv. And knowing the problems with Sapporo, a lukewarm Vancouver and a push-back LA 2028, it just might be Lviv's time. Now, to find that pesky sliding track and the site for a Village; and the IOC might have its candidate. Think that would be divided between Lviv and Bukovel in a similar manner to Milan/Cortina. Arena Lviv for the ceremony stadium is 35,000. Built in 2008, probably just needs touch ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenina Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 Lviv is an interesting option in the sense that it's near the Carpathian Mountains, which have never hosted an OWG. It has a lovely central European charm and beauty that is just different enough from Italy to work, should Sapporo, SLC and Vancouver all fall away. It would probably be in the IOC's better interest to get Sapporo and SLC or Vancouver on board for a double 2030-2034 award and push Lviv out to 2038 as a fallback when it is really in a position to want to return to Europe in case no other legitimate European bidders emerge in the meantime (it would be great if Barcelona-Pyrenees could get its political act together!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted September 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 34 minutes ago, Karenina said: Lviv is an interesting option in the sense that it's near the Carpathian Mountains, which have never hosted an OWG. It has a lovely central European charm and beauty that is just different enough from Italy to work, should Sapporo, SLC and Vancouver all fall away. It would probably be in the IOC's better interest to get Sapporo and SLC or Vancouver on board for a double 2030-2034 award and push Lviv out to 2038 as a fallback when it is really in a position to want to return to Europe in case no other legitimate European bidders emerge in the meantime (it would be great if Barcelona-Pyrenees could get its political act together!). You honestly read my hopes and intents of this like a book. Thats why I like it, it does have a slightly different exoticness to it in the Carpathians, a region that hasnt really been covered yet. But, I also like it for 2038 for multiple reasons, especially to get their economy and geopolitical sovereignty on track. I also like the double idea with SLC getting it in 2034, but for all this to happen, Sapporo or Vancouver need to pull off the amazing for 2030. Picking between those two, if I had that luxury, I am rooting hard for Sapporo, but I will graciously and happily take Vancouver if not. Personally, with Barcelona, I dont see it. But if we somehow get that option that you put forth, Winter Games security is looking in survivable shape. Lets hope for it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted October 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2021 Would a Winter Olympics bid put Ukraine on thin ice? | Euronews Good article that spells out a lot of the obvious here. Ukraine politicians towing the line that a lot of the infrastructure will go to things that were already being planned for anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted November 23, 2021 Report Share Posted November 23, 2021 Ukraine Update: U.S. Intel Shows Russia Troops Ready for Large-Scale Attack - Bloomberg If the IOC hasn't told Ukraine no by now . . . then maybe Putin can pull a double, 2030 Lviv and 2036 St. Petersburg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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