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Vancouver 2030


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On 2/13/2022 at 11:58 PM, stryker said:

My previous post with the link from dailyhives discusses the unlikelihood of the Richmond Oval ever returning to competition form again.

All I see in these photos is some sports equipment that probably could be taken out in the matter of weeks. I fail to see how this would make a re-conversion to a skating oval overly difficult.

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On 2/9/2022 at 3:17 PM, Faster said:

 

Putting venues in more far-flung locations will increase the chances of a need for another 'sea-to-sky' type construction project. That will increase costs. Whatever happens with the Oval, you are gonna be looking at a venue that won't stay an Oval again. Vancouver will never be able to replace Calgary as the national training center. So post-games legacy again is not a bad idea. 

Vancouver still has the 3 arenas (though Rogers is probably nearing the end of its life by NHL standards). Curling I could see being farmed out. Langley would be a good option there in the existing WHL facility. 

Using a different freestyle/snowboard venue would also be a necessity now over Cyrpress. 

Other change I'd like to see is the medal ceremony/concert being outdoors akin to Salt Lake and Torino and not indoors like it was. Maybe BC Place is a better venue then it was, but some winter feel would have been welcome.

They are proposing a more "BC" bid and I don't know what that really means at this time. BC's four largest population centres are the Lower Mainland which includes Greater Vancouver, the Okanagan, Victoria on Vancouver Island, and the Kamloops area. They all have various winter sport infrastructure.

 

As for a ceremonies venue, well BC Place Stadium is vastly improved since 2010. Nowhere outdoors in Vancouver will ever give the winter feels, unless they found something waterfront with views of the mountains, but there's nothing readily available. Well, there's an interesting space at Brockton Oval in Stanley Park, but that would never be approved for such large crowds and it isn't super accessible.

Maybe a revamp of the Plaza of Nations area from Expo 86. It is next to BC Place and needs a lot of love, but it isn't very big. In 2010, it was used as a staging area for the ceremonies. Vancouver doesn't have a lot of grand plazas or open squares and what we do have are mostly small parks or they'd be problematic for hosting large events like the medal ceremonies and concerts. And David Lam Park, which hosted one of the party sites in 2010, often turns into a mud pit in the winter months. 

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On 2/15/2022 at 5:30 AM, munichfan said:

All I see in these photos is some sports equipment that probably could be taken out in the matter of weeks. I fail to see how this would make a re-conversion to a skating oval overly difficult.

Just curious if you read the article? Among the issues are the ice track has been removed (the lines still remain) and the mezzanine level which was once spectator seating has now been replaced by an indoor running track. It's not that easy a conversion. If it was I imagine the oval would have seen other competitions such as a world championships.

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On 2/16/2022 at 10:03 AM, baron-pierreIV said:

Can they hold the OC in Vancouver, "Washington" -- and still have it qualify as a legit part of the Vancouver 2030 show? :wacko:

I say this as an American, you could actually do that and 97 percent of us wouldnt know the difference.

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Overall, though, Canada is currently in 3rd place, behind Norway & “roc”. And ahead of the U.S. & Germany by one & two medals respectively.

I really don’t like all this focus on the medal tables on just counting on the “gold” medals to factor in a country’s success at the Olympics. It really isn’t fair to the athletes who’ve scored the silver & bronze medals & making them feel second & third rate by doing so. I guess technically they are, but it literally shouldn’t be done that way. They’ve worked & trained just as hard as the gold medal winners IMHO.

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15 hours ago, FYI said:

Overall, though, Canada is currently in 3rd place, behind Norway & “roc”. And ahead of the U.S. & Germany by one & two medals respectively.

I really don’t like all this focus on the medal tables on just counting on the “gold” medals to factor in a country’s success at the Olympics. It really isn’t fair to the athletes who’ve scored the silver & bronze medals & making them feel second & third rate by doing so. I guess technically they are, but it literally shouldn’t be done that way. They’ve worked & trained just as hard as the gold medal winners IMHO.

Yet if you’re ranking on gold, the US (as of Sunday morning Oz-China time) currently sits on third, with Canada out of the top 10 at 11th.

It’s Tom-ay-toes, Tom-ah-toes, or probably more applicable, the rest of the world using the metric system while the US remains steadfastly Imperial, situation.

i remember reading up on this the last time the old US ranking by medal total versus rest of the world ranking by golds came up. The IOC itself actively discouraged and fought against what were than “unofficial” medal tallies, but by the 1950s realised they were just fighting a losing battle and joined in themselves (using the gold standard). Why the US went with total medals i assume developed out of the Cold War in the early 1950s in the medal wars against the Commie bloc. Before then there were lots of different systems used across different countries involving complex point formulas etc.

I admit I’m biased for the gold standard because that’s just what I’m more used to and what the media I usually use - the IOC or in this games The Guardian - go by. And silvers, bronzes and total medals still comes into that when you’re ranking countries tied on gold.

15 hours ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

The question still holds - if Canada had won 10 Golds it would help greatly with public support.

 Yeah, before I’m issued with an Officer AF thread drift infringement notice, better add - yeah, I’m sure Canuck support for a 2030 bid would be higher if they were inspired to “Own the Podium” again. 

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12 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Yet if you’re ranking on gold, the US (as of Sunday morning Oz-China time) currently sits on third,

 

Make that fourth actually...a great PR win for Xina in third (and likely to stay there until the figure skating team event is resolved in the US favour).

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There is a lot more variance in gold medals than there is in total medals. The total medal count shows that Canadian athletes are still very good at winter sports. If anything, I think it shows that upgrades to training facilities in either Calgary or Vancouver could turn many bronzes and silvers into more gold medals for Canada.

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18 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

Make that fourth actually...a great PR win for Xina in third (and likely to stay there until the figure skating team event is resolved in the US favour).

Quite right. That was my mistake.

And also, I think (though not entirely sure - I’d welcome clarification) that Canada also rank by total medals, so that may be a North American thing, not just the US.

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1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

Yeah, before I’m issued with an Officer AF thread drift infringement notice, 

Yeah, that really needs to stop, though. I mean, who died & anointed them boss around here. It’s NOT their job to do that.

They roam around here like they own the fricken place, & telling others what they can/can’t do. :rolleyes: It’s utterly ridiculous already. 

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1 hour ago, Nacre said:

There is a lot more variance in gold medals than there is in total medals. The total medal count shows that Canadian athletes are still very good at winter sports. If anything, I think it shows that upgrades to training facilities in either Calgary or Vancouver could turn many bronzes and silvers into more gold medals for Canada.

Good point. 

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2 hours ago, FYI said:

Yeah, that really needs to stop, though. I mean, who died & anointed them boss around here. It’s NOT their job to do that.

They roam around here like they own the fricken place, & telling others what they can/can’t do. :rolleyes: It’s utterly ridiculous already. 

mariah-carey-diva.gif

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  • 1 month later...

I keep saying, Brisbane 2032 never went to a full public referendum or plebiscite on the Olympics and 3 x opinion polls were sufficient to gauge majority public support.  This is what the IOC accepted.

I’m saying this because as the first host elected under the NewNorm process, those camdidatures for 2030, including Vancouver and Sapporo 2030 don’t, it apears, need to rush to to a formal referendum.
 

 

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Correction:  I’m saying this because as Brisbane 2032 showed in the first New Norm host selection process, the second  New Norm host selection process candidatures including Vancouver 2030 and Sapporo 2030 don’t, it apears, need to rush to a formal referendum.    Opinion polls showing majority support may be enough.

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On 3/23/2022 at 4:15 PM, AustralianFan said:

I keep saying, Brisbane 2032 never went to a full public referendum or plebiscite on the Olympics and 3 x opinion polls were sufficient to gauge majority public support.  This is what the IOC accepted.

I’m saying this because as the first host elected under the NewNorm process, those camdidatures for 2030, including Vancouver and Sapporo 2030 don’t, it apears, need to rush to to a formal referendum.
 

 

The problem is those three Brisbane polls showed a significant amount of public support well outside the margin for error. Sapporo's poll numbers are dubious at best given the fac the government has been closely guarded about polling methods and sampling. In other words, it's the equivalent of an internal Trump poll showing he would have beaten Joe Biden in 2020. The fact that even then the number is just over 50% means the bid is not on solid ground support wise. Vancouver had a referendum after they were chosen for the 2010 Olympics which worked out in their favor. Vancouver's public support is also shaky. On one hand, the track records for referendums has not been in favor for the Olympics. On the flip side, relying on public opinion polls with either tepid support for questionable methods raise concerns about how much actual public support there is for an Olympic bid. 

It would be catastrophic for the IOC if a city was awarded an Olympics only to see a sizeable No Olympics movement force that city's existing government to hand the games back like what Denver did. Political opponents could even take it a step further and make it an election issue and regardless of what a host city contract says, no politician in a democratic nation is going to stand by the IOC in the fact of a potential electoral defeat.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/13/2022 at 5:58 PM, Guilga said:

It seems that Vancouver will escape the referendum curse.

 

There's the start of a pattern here and one that has the potential to blow up spectacularly in the IOC's face if they are not careful. Referendums looked like near certainties for both Sapporo and Vancouver, two cities with tepid support at best for an Olympic bid. Now both cities are trying to skirt the dreaded referendum and for good reason. The track record of no votes speaks for itself. My guess is there's a hope that even with tepid support that once bid preparations get underway more public support will come. On the flip side and this comes with awarding an Olympics too far out . . . If a sizeable No Olympics crowd makes their voice heard with promises of punishing politicians at the ballot box who support an Olympic bid especially one without a public vote then there's a significant possibility of a repeat of what happened with Denver. It's be a nightmare if the IOC awarded Vancouver an Olympics then Hardwick gets elected mayor and announces she's giving them back.

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1 hour ago, stryker said:

There's the start of a pattern here and one that has the potential to blow up spectacularly in the IOC's face if they are not careful. Referendums looked like near certainties for both Sapporo and Vancouver, two cities with tepid support at best for an Olympic bid. Now both cities are trying to skirt the dreaded referendum and for good reason. The track record of no votes speaks for itself. My guess is there's a hope that even with tepid support that once bid preparations get underway more public support will come. On the flip side and this comes with awarding an Olympics too far out . . . If a sizeable No Olympics crowd makes their voice heard with promises of punishing politicians at the ballot box who support an Olympic bid especially one without a public vote then there's a significant possibility of a repeat of what happened with Denver. It's be a nightmare if the IOC awarded Vancouver an Olympics then Hardwick gets elected mayor and announces she's giving them back.

Yeah, if it happens, a Denver 2 could be a disaster for the IOC, even fatal maybe. Imagine what would happen to all multi-sport events in the current skeptical climate...

But about Vancouver, it seems that the bid is led by a group of First Nations communities of British Columbia. It could be that Hardwick taking that games away from them might make a look just as bad for her then it could be to the IOC, which is, if I recall correctly, one reason for why that referendum fell through aside from costs.

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18 minutes ago, Guilga said:

Yeah, if it happens, a Denver 2 could be a disaster for the IOC, even fatal maybe. Imagine what would happen to all multi-sport events in the current skeptical climate...

But about Vancouver, it seems that the bid is led by a group of First Nations communities of British Columbia. It could be that Hardwick taking that games away from them might make a look just as bad for her then it could be to the IOC, which is, if I recall correctly, one reason for why that referendum fell through aside from costs.

But are the First Nations communities going to be the ones putting up all the funding? No that will likely be done by the city of Vancouver which means tax payer dollars. I'm all for an indigenous led bid but it still has to be paid for.

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