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Halifax 2014 - Canadian CG bid race


mr.x

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Well again I am an Independant person from Out but I really dont care if 95 percent were against the games I would still be very vocal on this issue. Becasue it is an idiotic idea for Halifax to be engaged in . I may be a ordinary citizen but today in the Halifax daily news we have Paul Calda the former city manager coming out with this gem

Another prominent voice speaking out against the Games is former Halifax city manager Paul Calda. In an e-mail to all members of council, Calda chastised the mayor and council for not standing up to defend the interests of HRM's taxpayers.

"It is becoming clearer every day that we, both the province and HRM, cannot afford this extravaganza. It's a puzzle why HRM Council continues with it, " he wrote.

Calda also takes issue with the bureaucrats who seem to be running this show.

"None of them have been elected, and all of them have a vested interest in perpetuating this fraud because of their inflated salaries and egos," he said. "All of them should be fired for incompetence. An amateur came up with an estimate of $2 billion several months ago, based on historical costs and published figures from other cities. He has now been vindicated."

To me if you can find 280 uninformed citizens to micro target to forward your proposal the Don Mills coprorate research are doing as good a job as the communist chinese with Mao posed inform of a bounty of wheat while his Country starved with the Great Leap Forwards reforms.

I think it was probably micro targeted and the sample could have been cut back to schew the results. When the behavoir of these mills brothers get to the point it did on the radio the other day then you really have to question the maturity. GEE is their that much to be made in Office furniture and creating propaganda for a games committee.

jim jones

WOW Jim,I did not know that about Calda thanks for posting that. HOORAY FOR CALDA calling it as it is. WOW it is as if we are related, he calls it as I have been calling it since I register on this board. I feel so............validated.......YES LETS FIRE THEM ALL!

THANK YOU CALDA..you are so right about all of them...

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Now I'm beginning to understand why some of the readers say you twist their words. I did not mention Elections Canada.

Perhaps you are not aware but statistics is a science. I, as well as many others, have an extensive education in it. If you're interested I can direct you to several textbooks and papers written by authors and statisticians from around the world.

Granted, if they are ALL wrong, I wasted four years studying it. If you can convince us of that - I'll be impressed. May I ask where your statistical training comes from?

The only reason I've become involved in this topic is to clarify an obvious distortion of fact.

Yanno GB-Rob as I pointed out before it is confusing, for those who can read, when the moderator is not acting neutral.

As for your readers: I doubt very much they have something to say but they are more than welcome to join YOUR board to call me out, no doubt you will make them feel very welcome, so where are they?

Why not invite them to call me out for being so inaccurate?

YOU should know by now I am about being transparent I dont collude with any one sitting in the dark.

I have never said anything about anyone that cannot be substantiated in several courts of law. You have been invited to check all my facts out and I can only assume with this post that you choose not to do that.

If you are not going to list who is saying what about my twisting words then why bring it up or are you hanging around JOW HOWE too much?

He had people saying things too where is the list?

That by the way has been sent to the NS POLICE COMMISSION for unlike some of you I, in theory, think incompetence and corruption in govt and their supporters should be held accountable. Will NSPC do anything? HECK NO thanks to our corrupt and incompetent govt. But just wanted you to know that as I do what I say I am going to do.

But you would be such a great help if you could send me JOE HOWE real name as I am planning to do a HRC file as well being you are so about being right, correct, ethical , did I leave anything out?

Why are YOU being so defensive...

Like CALDA said : THEY SHOULD BE FIRED, THEY ARE INCOMPETENT, HAVE INFLATED INCOMES and EGOS gee where did we hear all that before GB... is he misinformed too, is he a liar too???

I never said you said ELECTION CANADA-I SAID IT- I throw all elections in that barrel and that should have been obvious if you didnt have another agenda going on.

I find it patronizing the way some of you assume that I have no education just because I dont agree with you. As I and JIm have stated too many times, it is too small of a pop to mean anything you, that fact remains the TRUTH.

GB- you have me confused with someone else: it is not my obligation or duty or chore to convince you or anyone of anything, intelligent resourceful people know what is true and what is not.

As you were told before you are the admin: if my posts are so upsetting for some of your readers then remove them, it is not like you haven't being removing some before others can read about the TRUTH of HRM.

HOORAY CALDA !!!! I think I can relax now.

THANKS JIM for posting that..... now let see PROGAMES bully and bash CALADA now too. (pulling up seat)

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I dunno who this Paul Calda guy is, but here's something i found when i searched him:

Reply to Paul Calda's Letter of 16 June 1998

In his criticism of the article "Green Target Can't be Hit", Paul Calda's letter of 16 June contains a number of statements that are both confusing and misleading.

First, Mr. Calda states that "Somebody has the math or probably the metric system, wrong. A litre of gasoline weighs about three quarters of a kilogram. It cannot therefore produce 2.64 kilograms of carbon dioxide."

From this statement it is clear that Mr. Calda is in desperate need of a course in basic chemistry. Gasoline, made up of hydrocarbons such as pentane and octane, produces about 3 kilograms of carbon dioxide for every kilogram of gasoline combusted. Using Mr. Calda's weight of a litre of gasoline (three quarters of a kilogram), means that about 2.3 kilograms of carbon dioxide is produced for every litre of gasoline burnt.

Second, Mr. Calda claims that "throwing figures at readers does not make an article credible."

Supplying (not "throwing") figures such as one litre of gasoline produces 2.64 kilograms of carbon dioxide is a means whereby interested readers can:

1. measure their own contributions to the greenhouse effect, abating when and where possible, and

2. critically examine claims made by people such as Mr. Calda.

Sent: 18 June 1998. Published (Daily News, 20 June 1998)

I guess Paul Calda, kinda like Outraged, enjoys inventing scientific methods.

I thought you smelled familiar: as I told your posse crew before I have nothing to say to anyone who brings nothing to this discussion here or anywhere.

HOORAY FOR CALDA......

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No Wishblade I Believe you are mistaken there in regards to what I have said in regards to push polls. Gloria Mac Cluskey said that on Rick Howe and other media outlets in november. The problem is both micro targeting and the question that is asked can total change the result. You throw in the opposite statement to a legacy of debt and candy coat the games bid with a question like. "If the commonwealth games was to make a profit , or not effect your tax rates would you be in favour of the games." You get your 72 percent in a hurry.

You might as well say "are you in favour of having a billion dollar worth of public housing being built not costing anyone a dime."

I have said anyone engaging in polling and expressing a bias towards a proposal should excuse themselves from their business because it no longer has creditiblity on the issue .

Polling to me is what a person says to get the other person off the phone the fastest.

Jim jones

Very well stated Jim...they 'get' it.. they just choose not to agree.

The 'question' is the the key.

I really want to see the actual study....

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Sorry to see that they actually have internet access from the Nova Scotia Hospital in Dartmouth .

Please spare me about Corporate research having any Creditbility. That left the building with their raw raw speech to the chamber for commerce in the spring of 2006 with Don Mills stating that they had to get the polls up from 76 percent at that time. No one supports the commonwealth games but an very small elitist clique in Bedford.

Don Mills is the owner and his product is tainted by his quest. Mirco Targeting and shaping the question is likely at play. The Sample of 411 could be from the 500 people the mills claim to employ. Yeah I suppose they would qualify as nova scotians between the ages of 18 and 65 .

As to Robs response on plebisites yes opposing something can can bring out more against then are for but a very vocal group in Vancouver against the 2010 games

was soundly defeated by the silent majority. The question is whether those results would happen again in light of the cost overruns. Considering a government position is funding a sport festival drive you are looking at a unlimited amount of resources against the opposition forces.

I would roll the dice on a plebiscite fr the commonwealth gaems and would be fine if a majority of 1 percent over 50 voted in favour. The politicans however know that they need about 70 percent to be comfortable with a games efford.

Again turn out of course can not show the most accurate percentage in favor by it is the one that is most representative and the largest sample.

jim jones

Sorry to see that they actually have internet access from the Nova Scotia Hospital in Dartmouth .

Jim I read this and thought if only I knew I would have been more.......... patient....LMAO

I think plebs give the added assurrance in confidence as the PEEPS feel included in those decisions that are about spending their hard earned money. Again if HRM/BIDTEAM were as sincere as they claim to be they would have thought this all these logistics out before submitting. Instead they let their ..what did I, I mean CALDA call it..INFLATED INCOMES AND EGOS..decide for us all....

In all fairness, if a pleb was callled before a bid was submitted and the public were able to have access to as much info as possible and if that vote were in favour of GAMES I would have nothing to say. I would ONLY have my original position on the matter and that is COUNCIL (PM in particularly) and GOVT are too corrupt and incompetent to host... now where did I hear that recently LMAO

I think PROGAMES are boiling......

I am all for 'when the people speak' I havenot heard them yet...

did I say THANK YOU CALDA...

I dont know about you Jim but I feel that I can take break with Calda on the job now.... how sweet it is...

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Just to show you what a good sport I am, I found money for the GAMES

sorry no link yet

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter

This winter’s scant snowfalls mean that city hall is saving a bundle on its snow budget.

"We’re loving it," Mayor Peter Kelly said in an interview Wednesday.

With $5 million left to spend and $1.4 million in a storm reserve fund, the city could even weather a White Juan-sized event and still break even.That February 2004 storm, which left almost a metre of snow, took days to clean up.

Mayor Kelly said he remembers those days and said the last few winters haven’t been as bad.

"Things have settled down a bit and it does show up in the budget."

An Environment Canada meteorologist said the relative lack of snow this winter is because Halifax hasn’t been "tapping into" its usual bouts of arctic air.

"To have a good storm, you need some of that good arctic air behind the storm and some good warm air ahead of it," Bob Robichaud said.

"So this year, in terms of storm activity, . . . it’s been a bit tamer than what we would usually get."

The monthly snowfall in Halifax for December, January and February has been lower than average, he said.

December’s snowfall totalled 31.8 centimetres, down from the monthly average of 43.9 centimetres. January had 39.5 centimetres, down from the usual average of 54.6. February’s average is 50.1 and, after 21 days, we’ve only had 18.3.

"It’s fairly significantly below normal," Mr. Robichaud said.

Gord Hayward, the city’s manager of snow and ice removal, said Wednesday the city budgeted $12.7 million in its winter works budget and, so far, have spent about $7.7 million, or 61 per cent.

The money has been spent cleaning up from 12 snowfalls, "none of them major," he said by e-mail.

At this point last year, the city had already gone through 74 per cent of its $11.7-million budget, cleaning up after 16 snowfalls, including three major storms.

While city hall could be reaping the benefits from less snow, others are losing out, said the owner of a company contracted to clear snow for the municipality.

Keith Ritchie, the owner of Never Greener Services, has a four-year contract to remove the snow from 25 schools.

He said he’s not making much money this year because the cold weather has brought more ice than snow.

"It costs twice as much to salt as it does to plow snow," he said Wednesday, noting there have been 30 icy days in a row.

"So our expenses are a lot higher than they would normally be."

Since he bid on a contract that set the price based on a maximum of 108 centimetres of snow, there’s no way to recoup those salt costs.

( apugsley©herald.ca)

what I could tell you about Gordon Hayward...find those missing receipts yet Gordie your boss couldnot find them or the contractors you used...gee why would that be........the money that spent fixing my driveway....OMG it would have been easier I am sure to hire staff that respects private property..

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I think Rob is understanding you far too well now, Out.

You may be educated, but you know nothing about stats.

Here's a little bit for you

read the latest post here

www.supportthehrmgames.com

And Out, it's funny how the entire universe has chosen you to be the center of it all.

Assaults, police attacks, whole governments standing against you, finance committees bending to your iron-will.

What a cool life... if only it were true.

Watching you and JJ go back and forth is like listening in on the internal monologue of a very troubled person.

JJ is the one that chose to make the flippant comment about the Nova Scotia Hospital.

Sorry to see that they actually have internet access from the Nova Scotia Hospital in Dartmouth .

Jim I read this and thought if only I knew I would have been more.......... patient....LMAO

If you are the person you say you are, standing up for the weak, you would call him on such a comment.

But nope you joined right in. You show your true colours.

That's like me saying "The anti-games crowd are like a rape victim who pretends she doesn't want it, but she really does, cause that's the truth about raped people."

And you say in response "LMAO"

Pathetic

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But the construction according to Fred Mac Gillivray does not start until 2010 with the venues completed in 2013 one year before the games . this adds 20.5 percent in construction cost at the beginning of the project and another 20.5 percent at the end with normal construction inflation costs at present. 40 percent increase if you are lucky and don't have labour strikes, storages or the price of building materials don't go into the stratosphere. Compounding the capital expense is the fact that only some many construction workers have such little time and opportunities else where. Construction work for stadiums is not an ordinary thing. The legacy case is very questionable considering the 1994 games Velodrome Venue in Victoria is slated to be torn down to be replaced by soccer fields. Then there is the high performance institute of sports that is being lobbied for in the greater victoria area to the tune of 27 million dollars. This is a mere 13 years after the 1994 commonwealth games in Victoria.

The share on the facilities is from one source the TAXPAYER. 33 percent of cost is all the feds put in out of the same pocket. the province and city will have to hash out the rest.

Facilities are great but considering the short fall of 15 million of operational debt for sports facilities existing in the HRM on the books a stadium for the commonwealth games is going to add about 5 to 7 million a year in maintainence costs. 7 million us is what Abuja's National Stadium cost for maintenance and that is in equatorial africa let alone a stadium in canada. This is why a nigerian nation government is trying to privatize the national stadium complex and why closer to home the Skydome went from a 650 million dollar building to a asset of Ted Rogers for a mere 25 million dollars . Toronto needed to unload the stadium because the maintenance costs. A south african brewery bought the toronto blue jays and the stadium for 125 million , Ted rogers became the last person to take ownership of a state of the art stadium for about 4 percent of the original cost. Is that a wise investment of taxpayer dollars ????

250 million in operations expenses for a stadium , aquatics centre and field house is a huge amount of wasted money for a mere ten days. then you have broadcast and logo rights that cost the host 80 million us dollars. Just on operations alone and the fees to the federation you are looking at what it would have cost Manchester to build their stadium .

A realistic approach for a sports park development is to seperate it from a sports festival and construct the Facilities on an Accessable Greenfield site.

A brownfield site at shannon park is inviting huge cost overruns. If Halifax had chosen to pursue a realistic plan of development from the time it was first rejected for the commonwealth games domestically it might actually have a stadium and the debate would be much more muted. It is a total shame that the money spent on bids could have actually gone towards a stadium that would have Halifax hosting games of the Fifa U20 world cup held in Canada this year. Along the way you host other events like the IAAF Juniors that moncton is hosting LOL. The problem for the HRM has been always thinking too big for its place in the world. From a 5000 seat stadium on st marys campus to a 55,000 seat stadium and the commonwealth games is a leap too far.

Jim Jones

Saanich Pool is Victoria is a model for the viability of aquatics centres across Canada. It fulfills a vibrant mandate and is financially viable. The HP training centre of which you obviously know little about is a project of Comosun College and has a much broader community impact than just erformance sport. They see a niche to fill and are entrepenerial enough to go after a goal. sopmething we are much too reserved to do on the East Coast. Your internet research can not give you the intagibles that a major event such as Commonwealth games can give are community. Your perspectives on building costs are obvious and should be reflected in any business plan endorsed by our governments so I believe this will be addressed. I have read about your concern about the lack of skilled workers. My perspective is lets give them a reason to return to the area or have a choice of not leaving in the first place. We need to stop looking for excuses. Our community is being consumed by reasons why things cannot be done as opposed to developing strategies for change. The world is passing us by.

What do you want for the community? I have never read any vision only why things should not be done. I do not find this interesting or insightful. The anti Games crusaders need to put ideas out not only roadblocks. I will be very supportive of a more proactive position. Your comment about Halifax thinking too big unfortunately shows one of our region's big weakness which is avoidance of change. The worst thing about aiming low is that you can always reach your goal. Our community should aim high. We have excelled to date and I believe we will continue to do so.

Halifax will only get a stadium with a major event such as commonwealth Games. Money will not come in any quantity without this impetus or a World Cup for Women's soccer. This is why communities bid and continue to bid. The trend is clear as you well know.

I find it hard to believe that a 55,000 seat permanent stadium is part of the Halifax bid. Aas far as Abuja, I do not think that it is felt their track record is good enough to be the first African hosts of this event. Cape Town or Durban are more likely successful candidates in 2018 based on their more positive record of hosting events.

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Yanno GB-Rob as I pointed out before it is confusing, for those who can read, when the moderator is not acting neutral.

As for your readers: I doubt very much they have something to say but they are more than welcome to join YOUR board to call me out, no doubt you will make them feel very welcome, so where are they?

Why not invite them to call me out for being so inaccurate?

YOU should know by now I am about being transparent I dont collude with any one sitting in the dark.

I have never said anything about anyone that cannot be substantiated in several courts of law. You have been invited to check all my facts out and I can only assume with this post that you choose not to do that.

If you are not going to list who is saying what about my twisting words then why bring it up or are you hanging around JOW HOWE too much?

He had people saying things too where is the list?

That by the way has been sent to the NS POLICE COMMISSION for unlike some of you I, in theory, think incompetence and corruption in govt and their supporters should be held accountable. Will NSPC do anything? HECK NO thanks to our corrupt and incompetent govt. But just wanted you to know that as I do what I say I am going to do.

But you would be such a great help if you could send me JOE HOWE real name as I am planning to do a HRC file as well being you are so about being right, correct, ethical , did I leave anything out?

Why are YOU being so defensive...

Like CALDA said : THEY SHOULD BE FIRED, THEY ARE INCOMPETENT, HAVE INFLATED INCOMES and EGOS gee where did we hear all that before GB... is he misinformed too, is he a liar too???

I never said you said ELECTION CANADA-I SAID IT- I throw all elections in that barrel and that should have been obvious if you didnt have another agenda going on.

I find it patronizing the way some of you assume that I have no education just because I dont agree with you. As I and JIm have stated too many times, it is too small of a pop to mean anything you, that fact remains the TRUTH.

GB- you have me confused with someone else: it is not my obligation or duty or chore to convince you or anyone of anything, intelligent resourceful people know what is true and what is not.

As you were told before you are the admin: if my posts are so upsetting for some of your readers then remove them, it is not like you haven't being removing some before others can read about the TRUTH of HRM.

HOORAY CALDA !!!! I think I can relax now.

THANKS JIM for posting that..... now let see PROGAMES bully and bash CALADA now too. (pulling up seat)

How am I not being neutral? I'm just defending math. I guess I'm pro-math! Go math!!!!

Also regarding the same and only issue I'm discussing here - I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm telling you that you are wrong. Just as if you had said the Earth was flat. Your statistical assumptions are incorrect.

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Just to show you what a good sport I am, I found money for the GAMES

sorry no link yet

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter

This winter’s scant snowfalls mean that city hall is saving a bundle on its snow budget.

"We’re loving it," Mayor Peter Kelly said in an interview Wednesday.

With $5 million left to spend and $1.4 million in a storm reserve fund, the city could even weather a White Juan-sized event and still break even.That February 2004 storm, which left almost a metre of snow, took days to clean up.

Mayor Kelly said he remembers those days and said the last few winters haven’t been as bad.

"Things have settled down a bit and it does show up in the budget."

An Environment Canada meteorologist said the relative lack of snow this winter is because Halifax hasn’t been "tapping into" its usual bouts of arctic air.

"To have a good storm, you need some of that good arctic air behind the storm and some good warm air ahead of it," Bob Robichaud said.

"So this year, in terms of storm activity, . . . it’s been a bit tamer than what we would usually get."

The monthly snowfall in Halifax for December, January and February has been lower than average, he said.

December’s snowfall totalled 31.8 centimetres, down from the monthly average of 43.9 centimetres. January had 39.5 centimetres, down from the usual average of 54.6. February’s average is 50.1 and, after 21 days, we’ve only had 18.3.

"It’s fairly significantly below normal," Mr. Robichaud said.

Gord Hayward, the city’s manager of snow and ice removal, said Wednesday the city budgeted $12.7 million in its winter works budget and, so far, have spent about $7.7 million, or 61 per cent.

The money has been spent cleaning up from 12 snowfalls, "none of them major," he said by e-mail.

At this point last year, the city had already gone through 74 per cent of its $11.7-million budget, cleaning up after 16 snowfalls, including three major storms.

While city hall could be reaping the benefits from less snow, others are losing out, said the owner of a company contracted to clear snow for the municipality.

Keith Ritchie, the owner of Never Greener Services, has a four-year contract to remove the snow from 25 schools.

He said he’s not making much money this year because the cold weather has brought more ice than snow.

"It costs twice as much to salt as it does to plow snow," he said Wednesday, noting there have been 30 icy days in a row.

"So our expenses are a lot higher than they would normally be."

Since he bid on a contract that set the price based on a maximum of 108 centimetres of snow, there’s no way to recoup those salt costs.

( apugsley©herald.ca)

what I could tell you about Gordon Hayward...find those missing receipts yet Gordie your boss couldnot find them or the contractors you used...gee why would that be........the money that spent fixing my driveway....OMG it would have been easier I am sure to hire staff that respects private property..

I thought you smelled familiar: as I told your posse crew before I have nothing to say to anyone who brings nothing to this discussion here or anywhere.

HOORAY FOR SCIENCE!......

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Okay. I heard this in the news, but it is surprising to me that it isn't in the CBC website and I need to confirm this with someone there. Is it true that a few of the world's well-known financial firms are going to set up their new offices in the Halifax area? According to what I heard, they are "flocking" to the city because of its scenery and its connections to places like NYC and London (UK).

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Okay. I heard this in the news, but it is surprising to me that it isn't in the CBC website and I need to confirm this with someone there. Is it true that a few of the world's well-known financial firms are going to set up their new offices in the Halifax area? According to what I heard, they are "flocking" to the city because of its scenery and its connections to places like NYC and London (UK).

A bank from bermuda I believe is setting up a call centre and that industry is highly highly subsidized the nova scotia provincial government. Convergys and ICT

have had a huge presence in and out of the hrm . I dont know if it is a few of the world-well known financial firms as I have heard of one from the bermuda which is an

income ad corporate tax free country. The problem for a firm located in bermuda is that if you need 400 people for your operation you would be hard pressed to find them . nova scotia you could find them with call centre experience , at a relatively cheap wage and have good sized rebates on payroll taxes. New York State and others places you are not going to see people bend over backwards for the company in regards to what nova scotia is willing to do.

jim jones

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Saanich Pool is Victoria is a model for the viability of aquatics centres across Canada. It fulfills a vibrant mandate and is financially viable. The HP training centre of which you obviously know little about is a project of Comosun College and has a much broader community impact than just erformance sport. They see a niche to fill and are entrepenerial enough to go after a goal. sopmething we are much too reserved to do on the East Coast. Your internet research can not give you the intagibles that a major event such as Commonwealth games can give are community. Your perspectives on building costs are obvious and should be reflected in any business plan endorsed by our governments so I believe this will be addressed. I have read about your concern about the lack of skilled workers. My perspective is lets give them a reason to return to the area or have a choice of not leaving in the first place. We need to stop looking for excuses. Our community is being consumed by reasons why things cannot be done as opposed to developing strategies for change. The world is passing us by.

What do you want for the community? I have never read any vision only why things should not be done. I do not find this interesting or insightful. The anti Games crusaders need to put ideas out not only roadblocks. I will be very supportive of a more proactive position. Your comment about Halifax thinking too big unfortunately shows one of our region's big weakness which is avoidance of change. The worst thing about aiming low is that you can always reach your goal. Our community should aim high. We have excelled to date and I believe we will continue to do so.

Halifax will only get a stadium with a major event such as commonwealth Games. Money will not come in any quantity without this impetus or a World Cup for Women's soccer. This is why communities bid and continue to bid. The trend is clear as you well know.

I find it hard to believe that a 55,000 seat permanent stadium is part of the Halifax bid. Aas far as Abuja, I do not think that it is felt their track record is good enough to be the first African hosts of this event. Cape Town or Durban are more likely successful candidates in 2018 based on their more positive record of hosting events.

First a 25000 seat stadium is what we end up with for Fred Mac gillivray's dream post games . A CFL team.

Second I know about the Comosun College project and it points to the fact that legacy is soon gone after a Commonwealth games. My point is clear Halifax cant take care of the venues they have now and adding a stadium and field house that will be part of Freddies little empire does not add to public facilites what so ever.

Seems to me you need hockey arenas more then a swimming pool. The NSCC campus is dartmouth is closing down the rink , the kinsmen rink has gone and not been replaced since Fast Freddie started his quest for the stadium with the bid for the commonwealth games in 1994.

The Field house will be the indoor practice facility for the CFL team playing to 12000 people in halifax.

Man this whole thing about a track record and events in Abuja . What type of track record does Halifax have with hosting outdoor events that dont involve music???

None absolutely none. the last event of note for the metro centre was the BMO canadain figure skating championships. Do you consider that event successful when they sold 60 percent of the available seating which was only the lower bowl??? Gee what did they sell 4000 tickets for each days competition in a 10,000 seat arena.

Intangibles are not considering by investors or banks when they loan money to projects. Why should the TAXPAYERS money be considered in the exact same way??? This is how nova scotia got into the 12.5 billion dollar debt in the first place by free spending on peoples hobbies. 12.5 billion is about three times the national debt of nigeria and they have the good fortune to have proven oil and gas reserves larger then any country in europe with the except of russia or north america. over 45 billion that country sits on in foreign capital reserves.

My prospectives on construction are based on of knowing the history of these things and knowing who did it right, who didnt and why. Fred mac gillivray and company have chosen the worst model for exposure of public funds . It is the Montreal model. Of course this is to be excepted of Fred after all a couple of weeks ago he actually took the bate of a ron maclean hairbrained idea of an NHL franchise for Halifax Nova Scotia and estimated the cost of an NHL arena at 120 million canadain . TRY 400 million American for a 18000 seat arena the NHL would demand. It is happening in newark new jersey , it is the case of an estimate for a new arena for the NBA franchises in Sacrameto and Seattle.

As far as the anti games crusaders we dont have to have any vision for the sports infrastructure of Halifax. All I see is a bunch of people who cant even have the 2011 canada winter games aquatic centre in the same place as the proposed commonwealth games pool????

Until The HRM has the maturity to say here is the place we put all our toys the room will be disorganized and messy like a 5 year olds in regards to sports facilites in the HRM. A 5 year old is how halifax behaves with the agruement of being so hard done by because other places have sport faclities while halfiax doesnt.

Moncton will have the 10000 seat stadium for 2010 and has room to expand. St Johns Newfoundland has a 6500 seat soccer pitch with field turf and a 6500 seat rugby facility. St. johns hosted a Fifa regional qualifier in the 1980s among other events while halifax has wasted money placating to a special interest group that refuses to live in the way everyone else has to . On a budget that is within our means.

The thing I see all over the maritimes is that others get what the place of the region is in the world and develop logically over the long term. The Canada Games facilities at Beazley Field ??? Well the dressing rooms and field house there were condemmed for mold about a decade ago. That what a five year old does with what he gets from mom and dad. forgets to take carry of last years toys.

jim jones

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How am I not being neutral? I'm just defending math. I guess I'm pro-math! Go math!!!!

Also regarding the same and only issue I'm discussing here - I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm telling you that you are wrong. Just as if you had said the Earth was flat. Your statistical assumptions are incorrect.

No rob you are without a bias in to arguement . I understand what you are forwarding about polls. market research and surveys. The problem for myself is that I see on one hand two polling companies who have business interests with the games lobby. Alan Greg is a conservative pollster but he is also very good at delivering polls and opinion that sometimes cuts against his political beliefs. Would I trust what he is saying ??? Only after you heard the same thing from a couple of different sources .

Bristol communications is the other polling company and they are in bed with the committee too. You really dont have a true picture that is not taited by Committee spin with regards to the polls. overwhelmingly people in nova scotia have made the opposition clear on the games.

jim jones

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A bank from bermuda I believe is setting up a call centre and that industry is highly highly subsidized the nova scotia provincial government. Convergys and ICT

have had a huge presence in and out of the hrm . I dont know if it is a few of the world-well known financial firms as I have heard of one from the bermuda which is an

income ad corporate tax free country. The problem for a firm located in bermuda is that if you need 400 people for your operation you would be hard pressed to find them . nova scotia you could find them with call centre experience , at a relatively cheap wage and have good sized rebates on payroll taxes. New York State and others places you are not going to see people bend over backwards for the company in regards to what nova scotia is willing to do.

jim jones

There have been four international financial service company announcing they setting up shop in Halifax in he past few months altogether employing 1300 people . These are not call centres they are high paying financial service jobs for people with accounting back grounds. They are moving here because of the great infra structure and highly educated workforce. Don't listen to Jim he doesn't no what his talking about like usual.

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No rob you are without a bias in to arguement . I understand what you are forwarding about polls. market research and surveys. The problem for myself is that I see on one hand two polling companies who have business interests with the games lobby. Alan Greg is a conservative pollster but he is also very good at delivering polls and opinion that sometimes cuts against his political beliefs. Would I trust what he is saying ??? Only after you heard the same thing from a couple of different sources .

Bristol communications is the other polling company and they are in bed with the committee too. You really dont have a true picture that is not taited by Committee spin with regards to the polls. overwhelmingly people in nova scotia have made the opposition clear on the games.

jim jones

Denial, denial Jim....poll after poll shows support for the games and poll after poll you come up with every excuse in the book counter the poll results... when will you learn. You think these will respected polling companies are going to risk the reputation they have built over the past 30 years by sckewing the polls. I think people like Rich Howe and you're buddy Bruce DeVenne should be sued for slander.

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There have been four international financial service company announcing they setting up shop in Halifax in he past few months altogether employing 1300 people . These are not call centres they are high paying financial service jobs for people with accounting back grounds. They are moving here because of the great infra structure and highly educated workforce. Don't listen to Jim he doesn't no what his talking about like usual.

Here's an article in todays Herald talking about one of the companies that has just opened its doors this week.

http://www.herald.ns.ca/Business/560945.html

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How am I not being neutral? I'm just defending math. I guess I'm pro-math! Go math!!!!

Also regarding the same and only issue I'm discussing here - I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm telling you that you are wrong. Just as if you had said the Earth was flat. Your statistical assumptions are incorrect.

I didnot realize I had to explain every single thing I post.

You know fine well I was not talking about your math comments or I would have said something earlier. I know what you are saying about stats but they do not apply here, too much contamination of results.

You know fine well I was talking about YOUR accusation of twisting words and then posting that OTHERS who are nameless have told you that I twisting their words. You have shown repeatedly on this board and in PM to be 'personally' involved supporting those that have been quite antigonistic on this board.

I used to see your biasness when you left the very womenhating posts by JH but now I save them for other matters as they are great pieces of evidence to the mentalities I have to deal with. I could not wait for his ANONYMOUS list anymore before filing with NSPC but there was enough to show inappropriate behaviour on this board regarding my rape case and you allowed it. You remove my posts about the TRUE city council/gotvt but you leave smut directed at me on the board and call yourself neutral?

THANK YOU CALDA.......THANK YOU...can some one send me in PM the actual news article I cannot find it on GOOGLE....TIA

I am fully aware of the sickness of others I have to post with on this topic of GAMES and you are fully aware of the gang mentality on this board that offers nothing but hateful words to myself and a chosen other before I came on board...yet you claim to be neutral?

Again my math is not wrong, the reality of the sample being too small is not wrong. Now oddly another posters does agree with the sampling numbers and methods being in question yet you and your crew dont seem to be using any tactic to attack him or accuse him of twisting words....nevermind I already know that is about being biased and not neutral.

It am amazed at how most of you conveniently skipped right over the post accusing me of twisting words and that READERS (plural) have discussed this with him ...yet where are these READERS accusing me of misrepresenting them, their work /words/opinions whatever I dont know as GB was too vague. Is this the same mysterious list of all the INTELLIGENT PEOPLE JH claims to know? It is amazing how JH and PM sound so much alike but then again mysogynists and unethical people all sound and smell the same.

I have asked for real names in PM from both of you and no one sends them to me :why?

Lots of big talk on this board and no action. Where are all these outraged people GB communicating with you ????

Where are the law suits of my misrepresenting folks here ??

Why do they hide in the dark GB?

Ask them to show themselves or be gone quietly.

JH knows my name and one of his pals can get my address for them....

Accusing me of twisting YOUR words when I did no such thing THEN adding for good measure that anonymous readers also have been complaining to you about me was YOUR deliberate act to attack my credibility in front of your crew and you call yourself neutral? Cheap tactic!

You will have to work harder than that to bring my credibility into question. The level of tactic both you and JH have used in this round is telling of YOUR credibility not mine.

WOW..incredible..I wonder if the fact that I am the only female involved in this discussion here, is playing a role. No doubt.

The sample size remains too small and their selection still questionable to be representative of the total NS population. Again I cannot say more without the document at my perusal. Again I would have preferred a pleb prior to submission.

I also know it didnot have to be that costlyor cumbersome. There are many people on EI and CS and so many other types of PROVINCIAL/MUNICIPAL mailing like RECYCLING etc. IT is common for GOVT to send mail outs within cheque stubs/RECYCLING packages etc/flyer packages get sent out once a week to every home in NS. So at any time the GOVT could have saved money by not hiring a consulting firm to do the poll and instead send out simple questionaire with a public HRM number/website for more information. This could have been made easier by providing all with FREE POSTAGE!

There could have been a couple of close ended questions about the GAMES/BIDDING/ COSTS/DEBT and one openended one for people to submit their concerns if they had any. All to be answered in writing on a website by a subcommitttee of the CWG prebid team in HRM.

This method would have been most representative.

The HRM CityC and BIDTEAM chose not to do what made the most logical sense and there is no mystery in that.

CORRECTION: I did say I can support anything I say in a court of law but I did forget one thing and I do apologize for this misrepresentation: I cannot prove in a court of law any court of law that JoeHowe buys XXXXXXXXL CONDOMS. That was metaphoric for his continual mysogynistic braggard behaviour which is quite immature, unprofessional and boorish.

Guradian- no I have not heard a thing on that ...

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First a 25000 seat stadium is what we end up with for Fred Mac gillivray's dream post games . A CFL team.

Second I know about the Comosun College project and it points to the fact that legacy is soon gone after a Commonwealth games. My point is clear Halifax cant take care of the venues they have now and adding a stadium and field house that will be part of Freddies little empire does not add to public facilites what so ever.

Seems to me you need hockey arenas more then a swimming pool. The NSCC campus is dartmouth is closing down the rink , the kinsmen rink has gone and not been replaced since Fast Freddie started his quest for the stadium with the bid for the commonwealth games in 1994.

The Field house will be the indoor practice facility for the CFL team playing to 12000 people in halifax.

Man this whole thing about a track record and events in Abuja . What type of track record does Halifax have with hosting outdoor events that dont involve music???

None absolutely none. the last event of note for the metro centre was the BMO canadain figure skating championships. Do you consider that event successful when they sold 60 percent of the available seating which was only the lower bowl??? Gee what did they sell 4000 tickets for each days competition in a 10,000 seat arena.

Intangibles are not considering by investors or banks when they loan money to projects. Why should the TAXPAYERS money be considered in the exact same way??? This is how nova scotia got into the 12.5 billion dollar debt in the first place by free spending on peoples hobbies. 12.5 billion is about three times the national debt of nigeria and they have the good fortune to have proven oil and gas reserves larger then any country in europe with the except of russia or north america. over 45 billion that country sits on in foreign capital reserves.

My prospectives on construction are based on of knowing the history of these things and knowing who did it right, who didnt and why. Fred mac gillivray and company have chosen the worst model for exposure of public funds . It is the Montreal model. Of course this is to be excepted of Fred after all a couple of weeks ago he actually took the bate of a ron maclean hairbrained idea of an NHL franchise for Halifax Nova Scotia and estimated the cost of an NHL arena at 120 million canadain . TRY 400 million American for a 18000 seat arena the NHL would demand. It is happening in newark new jersey , it is the case of an estimate for a new arena for the NBA franchises in Sacrameto and Seattle.

As far as the anti games crusaders we dont have to have any vision for the sports infrastructure of Halifax. All I see is a bunch of people who cant even have the 2011 canada winter games aquatic centre in the same place as the proposed commonwealth games pool????

Until The HRM has the maturity to say here is the place we put all our toys the room will be disorganized and messy like a 5 year olds in regards to sports facilites in the HRM. A 5 year old is how halifax behaves with the agruement of being so hard done by because other places have sport faclities while halfiax doesnt.

Moncton will have the 10000 seat stadium for 2010 and has room to expand. St Johns Newfoundland has a 6500 seat soccer pitch with field turf and a 6500 seat rugby facility. St. johns hosted a Fifa regional qualifier in the 1980s among other events while halifax has wasted money placating to a special interest group that refuses to live in the way everyone else has to . On a budget that is within our means.

The thing I see all over the maritimes is that others get what the place of the region is in the world and develop logically over the long term. The Canada Games facilities at Beazley Field ??? Well the dressing rooms and field house there were condemmed for mold about a decade ago. That what a five year old does with what he gets from mom and dad. forgets to take carry of last years toys.

jim jones

I am afriad that your facts seem to be a little confused. An indoor fieldhouse will be jam packed with community basketball. The CFL would not need a dedicated indoor training facility because they do not train during the winter as you may be aware. Moncton will have a 4000 seat stadium that is expandable for the Worlds.

If you are suggesting that our city bar should be the same as Moncton and St. John's ten I am afriad that you have little vision. I am looking at the year 2024. Will it be cheaper after 2014 to build a stadium. Don' t you think at that time a city of 500,000 needs a stadium for major events?

Hosting speaks to the capacity and atractiveness not only the events themselves. There are not many places in Canada that are not envious of halifax's track record for hosting. We need to diversify into other events that do not only use the Metro Centre base. The 2009 World Canoe Championships is an example of this. I believe a World sailing event is also possible. We need facilities to host things like national team soccer and rugby. Our community would support these sports and events.The same sentiment is not true of Abuja in the international sport world. Other cities such as Cape Town, Niarobi, Durban, etc. are more desirable for African based competition.

I agree that our city needs a better manner of dealing with facilities that are built. It is too late for Beazley field unfortunately and we need to ensure that this never happens again. This is what the 2014 Games will be much better at doing. If the facilities have no operating legacy funds, then the venture would be an error.

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As far as the polls, they indicate that a majority of HRM supports the bid especially the taxpayers of 20-30 years from now. Does this not indicate that a large part of our community want to see if this opportunity is attainable.

I ask outragged and Ji Jones again, whether they know the community legacy left in Victoria and Manchester? Have spent time in both cities, the impact of the Games is undeniable. Have either of you done your research on this topic. I agree with your finacial cautions but to avoid opportunity is not a way to move forward as well.

Tell me your vision of halifax not what is the downside of things. I support the games because I am looking to the future. If the finances make sense, let's go for it!

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Intangibles are not considering by investors or banks when they loan money to projects. Why should the TAXPAYERS money be considered in the exact same way??? This is how nova scotia got into the 12.5 billion dollar debt in the first place by free spending on peoples hobbies. 12.5 billion is about three times the national debt of nigeria and they have the good fortune to have proven oil and gas reserves larger then any country in europe with the except of russia or north america. over 45 billion that country sits on in foreign capital reserves.

jim jones

No, taxpayer's money shouldn't be treated in the same way. That's because it's the GOVERNMENT that controls it, and the government is supposed to maximize social welfare, tangible or not. Thats why the government takes care of infrastructure, because they are public goods that would be provided at a suboptimal level by the free market. Public goods are non-rivalrous in consumption, so it's possible for many people to enjoy them at once. The good they do goes beyond the dollars and cents considered by investors, which is why it is rightfully the place of the government to step in with taxpayers' money.

Oh, and that was a cute statistic about nigeria, I enjoyed your comparison with nova scotia. However, you forgot to mention that two years ago Nigeria was so crippled by debt that they had to apply to the Paris Club, World Bank, and IMF to have the vast majority of their debt forgiven. Don't think I'm taking a shot at Nigeria, I applaud their efforts to improve, I only bring this up to fully inform the situation. Nova Scotia managed to balance its budget a few years ago, and i read on wikipedia (i dunno how reliable that is) that this year has a projected surplus of $72M. Hmmm.... $72M per year.... seems like more than enough to handle the Commonwealth games.

I don't know what worries me more. First, you are particularly good at presenting half-truths (half is being generous) meaning there is a danger of dreadfully misinforming readers who have a genuine interest in the games and the future of their province and city. I can only hope those people will show enough due diligence to peruse some of the replies to your posts that expose these omissions of fact. It's honestly unfortunate, 'cause some of us posters have to waste time checking your claims when we could be more productive elsewhere.

Second, I can't believe someone who shows such disdain and complete lack of faith in their own province is content to keep living there. You like to talk about Halifax needing to stick "within its means". Why doesn't Halifax try to increase its means? Why this need to be only just as good as the cities and towns around you, instead of maximizing your potential? Where's the "dare to be great" attitude that characterizes the vast majority of your fellow Nova Scotians in their desire to host these games?

Oh, by the way, as to your dig about the hospital, i can only assume it's because you think I'm a doctor. Right now I'm doing a Master's in Economics, and at the moment am only being aggressively recruited for my doctoral studies. So, i guess "doctor" is only a little premature.

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I didnot realize I had to explain every single thing I post.

You know fine well I was not talking about your math comments or I would have said something earlier. I know what you are saying about stats but they do not apply here, too much contamination of results.

You know fine well I was talking about YOUR accusation of twisting words and then posting that OTHERS who are nameless have told you that I twisting their words. You have shown repeatedly on this board and in PM to be 'personally' involved supporting those that have been quite antigonistic on this board.

I used to see your biasness when you left the very womenhating posts by JH but now I save them for other matters as they are great pieces of evidence to the mentalities I have to deal with. I could not wait for his ANONYMOUS list anymore before filing with NSPC but there was enough to show inappropriate behaviour on this board regarding my rape case and you allowed it. You remove my posts about the TRUE city council/gotvt but you leave smut directed at me on the board and call yourself neutral?

THANK YOU CALDA.......THANK YOU...can some one send me in PM the actual news article I cannot find it on GOOGLE....TIA

I am fully aware of the sickness of others I have to post with on this topic of GAMES and you are fully aware of the gang mentality on this board that offers nothing but hateful words to myself and a chosen other before I came on board...yet you claim to be neutral?

Again my math is not wrong, the reality of the sample being too small is not wrong. Now oddly another posters does agree with the sampling numbers and methods being in question yet you and your crew dont seem to be using any tactic to attack him or accuse him of twisting words....nevermind I already know that is about being biased and not neutral.

It am amazed at how most of you conveniently skipped right over the post accusing me of twisting words and that READERS (plural) have discussed this with him ...yet where are these READERS accusing me of misrepresenting them, their work /words/opinions whatever I dont know as GB was too vague. Is this the same mysterious list of all the INTELLIGENT PEOPLE JH claims to know? It is amazing how JH and PM sound so much alike but then again mysogynists and unethical people all sound and smell the same.

I have asked for real names in PM from both of you and no one sends them to me :why?

Lots of big talk on this board and no action. Where are all these outraged people GB communicating with you ????

Where are the law suits of my misrepresenting folks here ??

Why do they hide in the dark GB?

Ask them to show themselves or be gone quietly.

JH knows my name and one of his pals can get my address for them....

Accusing me of twisting YOUR words when I did no such thing THEN adding for good measure that anonymous readers also have been complaining to you about me was YOUR deliberate act to attack my credibility in front of your crew and you call yourself neutral? Cheap tactic!

You will have to work harder than that to bring my credibility into question. The level of tactic both you and JH have used in this round is telling of YOUR credibility not mine.

WOW..incredible..I wonder if the fact that I am the only female involved in this discussion here, is playing a role. No doubt.

The sample size remains too small and their selection still questionable to be representative of the total NS population. Again I cannot say more without the document at my perusal. Again I would have preferred a pleb prior to submission.

I also know it didnot have to be that costlyor cumbersome. There are many people on EI and CS and so many other types of PROVINCIAL/MUNICIPAL mailing like RECYCLING etc. IT is common for GOVT to send mail outs within cheque stubs/RECYCLING packages etc/flyer packages get sent out once a week to every home in NS. So at any time the GOVT could have saved money by not hiring a consulting firm to do the poll and instead send out simple questionaire with a public HRM number/website for more information. This could have been made easier by providing all with FREE POSTAGE!

There could have been a couple of close ended questions about the GAMES/BIDDING/ COSTS/DEBT and one openended one for people to submit their concerns if they had any. All to be answered in writing on a website by a subcommitttee of the CWG prebid team in HRM.

This method would have been most representative.

The HRM CityC and BIDTEAM chose not to do what made the most logical sense and there is no mystery in that.

CORRECTION: I did say I can support anything I say in a court of law but I did forget one thing and I do apologize for this misrepresentation: I cannot prove in a court of law any court of law that JoeHowe buys XXXXXXXXL CONDOMS. That was metaphoric for his continual mysogynistic braggard behaviour which is quite immature, unprofessional and boorish.

Guradian- no I have not heard a thing on that ...

Um... about the math... if you take the cosine of the... oh forget it. That's all I really wanted to talk about. But since that's off topic and so is much of this thread - it is now closed.

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