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The next European host


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I'm not sure how many seats are taken out of use when a replay screen is installed for the Super League Grand Final but, having attended that fixture many times over the years, it is by no means the most comfortable of venues. If it wasn't for the fact that there's already the track on the Etihad Campus, it would be a no-brainer. 

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20 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

I find it strange that Madrid didn't jump at 2032 in the past two years as it emerged that Brisbane was the only contender. I feel that they would have easily had the numbers to defeat Brisbane given it would be 8 years after Paris. 

I don't think anything is off the table, re: London. However Brisbane's selection could spark some interest from the likes of Manchester? A regional Northern England Olympics centred on Manchester (for example) could be very similar to the Brisbane model with venues shared with Liverpool / Leeds / Sheffield.

I do not think that Madrid had the cash for a 2032 bid given the state of their economy. Even with Brisbane's selection, the idea of a regional spread out bid that can be cost effective is still very much a question mark. If Brisbane can pull it off then the idea of more regional bids are more plausible. Biggest problem any northern England bid will have though is the troublesome Olympic Stadium.

The other side of the coin is Paris and Los Angeles will have compact bids using almost entirely existing venues. If both of those cities are successes then I think London would be favored for another go over any regional UK bid. And London has the athletics stadium needed. 

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1 hour ago, stryker said:

I do not think that Madrid had the cash for a 2032 bid given the state of their economy. Even with Brisbane's selection, the idea of a regional spread out bid that can be cost effective is still very much a question mark. If Brisbane can pull it off then the idea of more regional bids are more plausible. Biggest problem any northern England bid will have though is the troublesome Olympic Stadium.

The other side of the coin is Paris and Los Angeles will have compact bids using almost entirely existing venues. If both of those cities are successes then I think London would be favored for another go over any regional UK bid. And London has the athletics stadium needed. 

I wonder if a temporary retrofit of Manchester's Etihad Stadium (built initially for the 2002 Commonwealth Games) could be possible? That entire precinct was originally intended as an Olympic Park for Manchester 2000. Now there is a Light Rail connection to central Manchester. 

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9 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

I wonder if a temporary retrofit of Manchester's Etihad Stadium (built initially for the 2002 Commonwealth Games) could be possible? That entire precinct was originally intended as an Olympic Park for Manchester 2000. Now there is a Light Rail connection to central Manchester. 

Unfortunately Etihad Stadium is now a rectangular shape so a platform track used in Glasgow or like what Los Angeles is planning is a no go. I also highly doubt the sheiks who own Manchester City would agree to any renovation to install an athletics track 

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On 7/23/2021 at 3:53 PM, stryker said:

Unfortunately Etihad Stadium is now a rectangular shape so a platform track used in Glasgow or like what Los Angeles is planning is a no go. I also highly doubt the sheiks who own Manchester City would agree to any renovation to install an athletics track 

This is the really thorny issue for any Manchester or northern England proposal to get to grips with if a bid has a chance of coming off. With the experiences that West Ham have had playing in London's Olympic Stadium, I can well imagine fans of both Manchester City and Manchester United not being enthusiastic about the potential for a running track in the Etihad or Old Trafford for the long term. Yet, what might appear to be the most practical solution, sticking a load of temporary seating on the current athletics stadium (essentially the warm-up track from the 2002 Commonwealth Games) doesn't really do the job either.

What might, and I stress the word 'might', provide a solution is the rivalry between those two clubs. In the last year or so, there have been noises in the media about the condition of Old Trafford compared to other Premier League venues, while I believe City still have aspirations to raise capacity at the Etihad to above 60,000. So I think it is conceivable, bearing in mind we're looking at an event 15 years in the future at the earliest, that one or other of the clubs could be encouraged to get involved in that way.

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3 hours ago, arwebb said:

This is the really thorny issue for any Manchester or northern England proposal to get to grips with if a bid has a chance of coming off. With the experiences that West Ham have had playing in London's Olympic Stadium, I can well imagine fans of both Manchester City and Manchester United not being enthusiastic about the potential for a running track in the Etihad or Old Trafford for the long term. Yet, what might appear to be the most practical solution, sticking a load of temporary seating on the current athletics stadium (essentially the warm-up track from the 2002 Commonwealth Games) doesn't really do the job either.

What might, and I stress the word 'might', provide a solution is the rivalry between those two clubs. In the last year or so, there have been noises in the media about the condition of Old Trafford compared to other Premier League venues, while I believe City still have aspirations to raise capacity at the Etihad to above 60,000. So I think it is conceivable, bearing in mind we're looking at an event 15 years in the future at the earliest, that one or other of the clubs could be encouraged to get involved in that way.

I think the stadium issue is why Khan has kicked around the idea of UK bid that incorporates London. My guess is London has to be included because of the athletics stadium. On the flip side, one can then make the argument that London can easily host another Olympics alone.

 

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If London wants to bid again, it should do so alone in my mind. With the 2012 facilities in place, it would make no sense to take other events around the country for the sake of it. If you want other parts of the country to bid, then you've got to let them come up with their own solutions.

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I mean really it depends on whether any athletics track would have to stay post games - if it does then yeah, the Olympic stadium is a big problem for Manchester, I can't imagine any other club would do a West Ham (although it's served them pretty well). If not, then as I said, and arwebb hints at, a bigger version of the Etihad conversion could appeal to United IF they're not wedded to Old Trafford. Failing that, there's obviously London again, but Birmingham/West Midlands is available - and has a stadium already. How big could we make the Alexander Stadium if needed?

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3 hours ago, iceman530 said:

what are the possibilities of an independent Scotland Glasgow bid (since independent Scotland looks like its coming in hot)?  Would that stand any chance?

You know that Scotland has about half the population of Greece/Hungary, right?

Besides, I believe in Scottish independence when I see it, though Boris & The Brexiteers are doing a great job promoting it.

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13 hours ago, iceman530 said:

what are the possibilities of an independent Scotland Glasgow bid (since independent Scotland looks like its coming in hot)?  Would that stand any chance?

I don't think it's ever been seen as a realistic possibility and it seems unlikely now, mainly for political reasons. It seems highly likely that there will be a clash between the Scottish and UK administrations over the next few years on the question of independence and, in that context, I can't see them working together as they would have to do to support an Olympic bid financially and politically. If the political will was there, though, Scotland would start from a pretty strong base as many venues are already in place from Glasgow 2014. Anyone fancy Olympic golf at St Andrews?

 

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On 7/27/2021 at 3:13 PM, yoshi said:

Failing that, there's obviously London again, but Birmingham/West Midlands is available - and has a stadium already. How big could we make the Alexander Stadium if needed?

I am of the mindset that if London can host it on their own again, then that makes the most sense from a cost and legacy standpoint. Alexander Stadium is in a residential area so expanding it to the size needed for an Olympics is not feasible.

I cannot envision a scenario where Manchester United leaves Old Trafford. Old Trafford is to football what Yankee Stadium is to baseball. I could see it maybe one day being rebuilt stand by stand, but there's no way there would be an agreement for an athletics track. 

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Yeah Old Trafford is sacred, that is an untouchable.  Thats why I think Manchester is not going to happen because it is impossible to work Old Trafford into it.  

Birmingham, I will have to defer on, I do not know enough about it.  I know there are plenty of soccer stadiums who ABSOLUTELY WONT want anything to do with a track field (West Brom, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Wolverhampton, et al).  

Enter London part 2 being the most likely conclusion.

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The only thing they could possibly do is what Spurs did - build an Old Trafford 2 next to the current one with a track, then move once the track's gone. But even then it's still not really Old Trafford, but then again the current one isn't in the best of states so maybe it could work that way?

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11 hours ago, iceman530 said:

Thats what I was thinking too, yeah I know the population is small, and the country area is small. but.......when you have most of the facilities, and there is political intent with the support of the people.......why not?

If a newly independent Scotland wants images of stadiums full of Union Flags as its opening salvo on the international stage, hosting the Olympics would be absolutely perfect. :D

I suspect a tournament where Scotland and England already compete separately would be more ideal.

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49 minutes ago, Rob. said:

If a newly independent Scotland wants images of stadiums full of Union Flags as its opening salvo on the international stage, hosting the Olympics would be absolutely perfect. :D

I suspect a tournament where Scotland and England already compete separately would be more ideal.

No Union flags necessary, the St George’s cross one will be sufficient by then!

Anyway, CWG or the European Champs like in 2018 might be the right size for Glasgow, but an Olympics would certainly be too much to handle IMHO.

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The UK won't disappear if Scotland leaves and I doubt a redesign of the flag would happen quickly, if at all.

Glasgow tried for a YOG but lost to BA. Going for that again would be ideal.

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15 hours ago, stryker said:

I am of the mindset that if London can host it on their own again, then that makes the most sense from a cost and legacy standpoint. Alexander Stadium is in a residential area so expanding it to the size needed for an Olympics is not feasible.

I cannot envision a scenario where Manchester United leaves Old Trafford. Old Trafford is to football what Yankee Stadium is to baseball. I could see it maybe one day being rebuilt stand by stand, but there's no way there would be an agreement for an athletics track. 

Alexander Stadium is intended to have a temporary 40,000 capacity for the Commonwealth Games next year, with permanent capacity of 18,000 (compared to around 12,000 pre-Games) afterwards. That would make it the biggest dedicated athletics stadium in Britain and, given that a lower stadium capacity doesn't seem to have done Brisbane any harm, it offers a good base from which one could potentially work going forward.

I don't think anyone is talking about Manchester United leaving Old Trafford, although I remember talking to one United fan at a game some years ago who said he felt they should have done so a long time ago. The issue, as people like Gary Neville have suggested, is whether or not the stadium now offers the kind of spectator experience that it should do for a club of United's stature. I've visited many of the top clubs' grounds in England and I won't be rushing back to Old Trafford any time soon.

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19 minutes ago, arwebb said:

Alexander Stadium is intended to have a temporary 40,000 capacity for the Commonwealth Games next year, with permanent capacity of 18,000 (compared to around 12,000 pre-Games) afterwards. That would make it the biggest dedicated athletics stadium in Britain and, given that a lower stadium capacity doesn't seem to have done Brisbane any harm, it offers a good base from which one could potentially work going forward.

iirc they've lowered the Games capacity to 30k. So some way off even the small 50k stadium Brisbane is looking at constructing.

Also, grossly off-topic, but I seem to remember you're a Grimsby fan. I doubt you're overjoyed to be back in the National League, but I see you're visiting my local team for your first match of the new campaign. B)

Edited by Rob.
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16 hours ago, stryker said:

I cannot envision a scenario where Manchester United leaves Old Trafford. Old Trafford is to football what Yankee Stadium is to baseball. 

Yankee Stadium was replaced with (New) Yankee Stadium in 2009 . . .

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On 7/29/2021 at 11:00 AM, arwebb said:

Alexander Stadium is intended to have a temporary 40,000 capacity for the Commonwealth Games next year, with permanent capacity of 18,000 (compared to around 12,000 pre-Games) afterwards. That would make it the biggest dedicated athletics stadium in Britain and, given that a lower stadium capacity doesn't seem to have done Brisbane any harm, it offers a good base from which one could potentially work going forward.

50,000 is pushing it. While I agree 40,000 should be acceptable, you have to factor in seats for sponsors, the IOC, media, dignitaries, and the rest of the Olympic family and suddenly there's far fewer seats available for ticket purchase which means less revenue. So when 40,000 can work for a CWGs or world championships, I do t think it would be accepted for an Olympics. 

 

22 hours ago, Nacre said:

Yankee Stadium was replaced with (New) Yankee Stadium in 2009 . . .

And it's practically a carbon copy of the original only with all the bells and whistles and those much desired luxury suites. It lacks the feel of the original though 

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On 7/26/2021 at 8:59 PM, arwebb said:

This is the really thorny issue for any Manchester or northern England proposal to get to grips with if a bid has a chance of coming off.

Unfortunately the athletics stadium issue is the big hang up for many cities that other wise would check all the boxes for a SOGs bid (New York, Toronto, Manchester, Hamburg) just to name a few.  It's an issue that the IOC hasn't been able to solve.  The only viable solution currently is either to expand an existing venue (Brisbane) or construct a stadium with a permanent tenant ready to take over post-Olympics.

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Looking at what is again a very strong Dutch team in Tokyo, maybe there will actually be some political will to go for 2036 in the Netherlands.

Amsterdam to Rotterdam is basically one big metro that already has plenty of facilities and is economically safe.

I think if Germany continues to mess up and if the IOC does not want London so soon again, that would be their dream candidate.

Of course there’s various layers of different regional and local authorities to be considered, plus probably a lot of opposition, but it would fit the idea of a sustainable regional bid very well.

 

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