The next European host

[FYI]

I like it. Let's do it. The IOC can "lock it in" now. Why wait these days! :-*

[stryker]

5 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Looking at what is again a very strong Dutch team in Tokyo, maybe there will actually be some political will to go for 2036 in the Netherlands.

Amsterdam to Rotterdam is basically one big metro that already has plenty of facilities and is economically safe.

I think if Germany continues to mess up and if the IOC does not want London so soon again, that would be their dream candidate.

Of course there’s various layers of different regional and local authorities to be considered, plus probably a lot of opposition, but it would fit the idea of a sustainable regional bid very well.

 

It would fit the IOC's New Norm perfectly. I'd even go as far to say the Netherlands could pitch this as a country-wide bid. One problem though. The Netherlands said no to a European Games because of finances. If you can't fund a European Games, how do you fund an Olympics?

[StefanMUC]

7 minutes ago, stryker said:

It would fit the IOC's New Norm perfectly. I'd even go as far to say the Netherlands could pitch this as a country-wide bid. One problem though. The Netherlands said no to a European Games because of finances. If you can't fund a European Games, how do you fund an Olympics?

It’s true that the Dutch govt is taking an austerity approach (especially in Eurozone debates with Italy, Greece etc), so that is a big obstacle. 

Then again, the Olympics are a different level than the EG. Maybe for that they would be willing to spend on a sustainable concept. Would cost more than EG, but would also get far more attention - money better spent?

They would surely have the money, that’s out of question.

[stryker]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:59 AM, StefanMUC said:

It’s true that the Dutch govt is taking an austerity approach (especially in Eurozone debates with Italy, Greece etc), so that is a big obstacle. 

Then again, the Olympics are a different level than the EG. Maybe for that they would be willing to spend on a sustainable concept. Would cost more than EG, but would also get far more attention - money better spent?

They would surely have the money, that’s out of question.

Agreed. The money is there. The will not so much. Much of Europe and the populations of western democracies have become much more cost conscious ever since the Great Recession.

I don't know much about the 1992 bid from Amsterdam other than the proposed Olympic Stadium would have been the home of Ajax Amsterdam but the Dutch really got cold feet after that race.

[yoshi]

A Dutch hosting would be fantastic - it'd need to be anchored by Rotterdam and the south rather than Amsterdam because they want the tourism more (that's why Amsterdam ducked out of Eurovision). But even that area of the southern Netherlands between Rotterdam, Den Haag, Utrecht and Eindhoven is probably enough and it's basically one city, the transport's so good. Maybe if they wanted to test the New Norm to its limits, not to mention plug in to Olympic history, they could even get Antwerp involved for some stuff, it's only just over the border. Are there any mumblings in the Netherlands about bidding, inspired by their success? If there are, the IOC should treat them like Brisbane, use everything at their disposal to get them locked in - it's the perfect place at the perfect time. 

[FYI]

Don't see the need for Antwerp to be involved, especially when it's closer to Brussels than it is to Rotterdam anyway. Why complicate things further when they don't need to be complicated. The Netherlands can manage it all on their own.

[iceman530]

I would love a Netherlands Olympics, thatd be spectacular.  Will keep fingers crossed, but I would put better odds on the Olympics being in Budapest or Istanbul than Netherlands just because of the Western European Olympic trade winds that have become so strongly against.  

[Rob2012]

On 3/13/2021 at 11:38 AM, Rob. said:

Madrid feels like a city that could be tempted back but I think they got severe bidding fatigue. They feel like a city who'd be ideal for conferring preferred bidding status on so they won't have to be put through another brutal vote. If I were the IOC I'd be pushing for this to happen.

Well, well

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/juegos-olimpicos/jose-luis-martinez-almeida-posible-11931928

Edited August 6, 2021 by Rob.

[Victorian]

I think 2036 will go to Africa, South America or Asia tbh. Europe is looking more like 2040. 

If I am picking the next European hosts I would hope to see Budapest seeing they have never hosted the games before. If that falls through though, I would love to see a Scottish Olympic games although I understand that is not likely to happen. Germany, Spain or even Portugal could be other European contenders?

[Hansfromdenmark]

I havn´t got many responsens for this topic with a link for my detalis thougt. But i still believe we good do it in the nordic! Now we have 9 medals this year, and minimum one more in the mens handball final. So we are very good this year also! 

That all said i also think The Netherlands should take a chance! But of course i would cheer more for my suggestion with a joined Copenhagen/Malmö bid. 

[iceman530]

10 hours ago, Rob. said:

Well, well

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/juegos-olimpicos/jose-luis-martinez-almeida-posible-11931928

That reads like Madrid are gonna do the thing.....  

[FYI]

"Seen with some time later and with what has happened, thank goodness they didn't give it to us". 

LOL - doesn't exactly instill a vote of confidence in a potential future host, now does it. So looks like Tokyo was the right 2020 choice then. 

As for Denmark, it's only a nation of barely 6 million. So seems like a stretch. 

As for 2036, it's Western Europe's to lose (if they want it, that is). Plus, the continent has never gone more than 12 years between Summer Olympics. So I don't see South America, Africa - nor Asia in particular. Not with 2032 being in Oceania. 

 

[Sir Rols]

13 minutes ago, FYI said:

"Seen with some time later and with what has happened, thank goodness they didn't give it to us". 

LOL - doesn't exactly instill a vote of confidence in a potential future host, now does it. So looks like Tokyo was the right 2020 choice then. 

But obviously they’re referring to covid. In hindsight, I’m sure the Japanese wish now Madrid had won. No-one would have wanted 2020 if they’d known what was coming.

[FYI]

31 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

But obviously they’re referring to covid. In hindsight, I’m sure the Japanese wish now Madrid had won. No-one would have wanted 2020 if they’d known what was coming.

Yeah, obviously. But that could be anything, anytime, though. The other day there was an article "if the Olympics are worth the bother anymore, even in the best of times". Basically the gist, that Japan had done everything right to prepare for 2020. Even Bach saying before the pandemic that "Tokyo was the best prepared city that he had ever seen". So there wasn't anything else that the Japanese could've possibly done to avoid these Corona Games.

That there's no guarantee that any future host will have flawless, non-detrimental Games. Something else could happen right before 2036 (or any other Olympic year). So unless future hosts have a crystal ball or something, they're taking on an even bigger gamble than years/decades before, with the world becoming more uncertainly with each passing year these days. And that's before even taking into account all the 'new norm', sustainability talk. So if a host is not willing to acknowledge that possible reality now, then perhaps they shouldn't be bidding ITFP. Hence the article. 

[Sir Rols]

I reckon you’re reading too much into it. “Phew, we dodged a bullet” is a fair enough sentiment for any losing bidder from that race now.

Sure, anything can happen. We’ve seen it. But the sheer act of bidding is an act of optimism. Why would anyone bid for anything if the thought that the world might likely turn to sh!t is always at the back of your mind.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Sir Rols

[FYI]

I suppose. But just like security at the Olympics increased significantly after Munich 1972, & again after 9/11, pandemics & other dangers now have to be looked at much more closely when it comes to preparations. Especially when scientists are now coming out & saying that pandemics going forward are no longer going to be a 'once in a 100 years' scenario anylonger. That they're going to occur more frequently going forward.

[Hansfromdenmark]

1 hour ago, FYI said:

As for Denmark, it's only a nation of barely 6 million. So seems like a stretch. 

As for 2036, it's Western Europe's to lose (if they want it, that is). Plus, the continent has never gone more than 12 years between Summer Olympics. So I don't see South America, Africa - nor Asia in particular. Not with 2032 being in Oceania. 

 

And why is it important that the country is bigger than that? 

[FYI]

Can you see Luxembourg or Macedonia hosting the Summer Olympics? In general, the larger the country, the easier it is for it to absorb the cost, build less necessary infrastructure & have a better legacy plan in place.

[Sir Rols]

20 minutes ago, FYI said:

I suppose. But just like security at the Olympics increased significantly after Munich 1972, & again after 9/11, pandemics & other dangers now have to be looked at much more closely when it comes to preparations. Especially when scientists are now coming out & saying that pandemics going forward are no longer going to be a 'once in a 100 years' scenario anylonger. That they're going to occur more frequently going forward.

Well, Tokyo’s always gonna have to wear the title of the “Covid Games”. But for all that they’ve done a pretty good job - not as festive or celebratory as they would have hoped - but not the disaster many were fearing or predicting (unless you’re one of the ceremony fanatics, they’re inconsolable ). But if we are going to face more epidemics in the future (cross fingers not), they’ve taken the bullet and set an example and template for ways to deal with them. All anyone can do is be optimistic, but plan for contingencies, which every host does.

[FYI]

4 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

(unless you’re one of the ceremony fanatics, they’re inconsolable ). 

Lmao

[Hansfromdenmark]

7 hours ago, FYI said:

Can you see Luxembourg or Macedonia hosting the Summer Olympics? In general, the larger the country, the easier it is for it to absorb the cost, build less necessary infrastructure & have a better legacy plan in place.

So you base it on econemy. But as i have tried to point out in my example for venues. We don´t stand so bad and have more than people outside in the world think. Economic we are wealthy country. On this list we are number 10: Richest Countries in the World 2021 | Global Finance Magazine (gfmag.com)

And to compare 6 million danes (and you forget the part of Sweden in my suggestion), and they are a bit over 10 million people. But of course my suggestion to be a part of it in Malmö close to Copenhagen, don´t involve there biggest cities. 

So again, I don´t agree with you, espicially when the only argument are "we are only 6 million", and then you compare with Luxembourg... 

[FYI]

It takes more than just "venues" to host the Olympics, though. It also takes accommodations, big infrastructure & even bigger political will to get it done. Things that smaller population countries don't have an abundance of. 

So I shouldn't base it on the economy then? Isn't that one of the IOC's criteria, though? But then you, ironically enough, post a list of the top ten richest countries? But seriously, can you honestly see Brunei & Luxembourg hosting simply because they're on that list? If we were talking winter Olympics, that'd be feasible for the likes of Norway & Switzerland. But unfortunately, Denmark doesn't have the mountains for it.

Besides, I never said that it was impossible (especially if the IOC would have nothing else credible to choose from). I said it would be a *stretch* for the Summer Olympics. And no, I didn't forget about Skane. But at that point, it's neither here nor there (especially when Skane only adds another 1.3 million to the picture. Plus, if we only include Zealand for Denmark, which is basically where Copenhagen is, it skews the number down quite considerably, since there's only 2 million there, so it's a wash, & that's on the generous side), since you also admittedly say that your suggestion doesn't include Sweden's other big cities. Others here have mentioned that an independent Scotland would be out of the question, since it's only 5.5 million people. But if part of a U.K. attempt, it's much more tenable. Go figure.

If there's a choice that the IOC would have, between say the Netherlands or the Rhine-Ruhr (or even Madrid or Moscow/St. Petersburg), do you really believe they'd bypass one of those for a smaller Copenhagen proposal? I'd find that highly unlikely. The IOC would still want as much finesse as possible. And I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm merely stating my opinion on a public forum about said topic, just as you are. Of course, though, you're going to advocate for Copenhagen as much as possible since you're a Dane. And that's certainly par for the course here on GB's. 

[Hansfromdenmark]

2 hours ago, FYI said:

It takes more than just "venues" to host the Olympics, though. It also takes accommodations, big infrastructure & even bigger political will to get it done. Things that smaller population countries don't have an abundance of. 

So I shouldn't base it on the economy then? Isn't that one of the IOC's criteria, though? But then you, ironically enough, post a list of the top ten richest countries? But seriously, can you honestly see Brunei & Luxembourg hosting simply because they're on that list? If we were talking winter Olympics, that'd be feasible for the likes of Norway & Switzerland. But unfortunately, Denmark doesn't have the mountains for it.

Besides, I never said that it was impossible (especially if the IOC would have nothing else credible to choose from). I said it would be a *stretch* for the Summer Olympics. And no, I didn't forget about Skane. But at that point, it's neither here nor there (especially when Skane only adds another 1.3 million to the picture. Plus, if we only include Zealand for Denmark, which is basically where Copenhagen is, it skews the number down quite considerably, since there's only 2 million there, so it's a wash, & that's on the generous side), since you also admittedly say that your suggestion doesn't include Sweden's other big cities. Others here have mentioned that an independent Scotland would be out of the question, since it's only 5.5 million people. But if part of a U.K. attempt, it's much more tenable. Go figure.

If there's a choice that the IOC would have, between say the Netherlands or the Rhine-Ruhr (or even Madrid or Moscow/St. Petersburg), do you really believe they'd bypass one of those for a smaller Copenhagen proposal? I'd find that highly unlikely. The IOC would still want as much finesse as possible. And I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm merely stating my opinion on a public forum about said topic, just as you are. Of course, though, you're going to advocate for Copenhagen as much as possible since you're a Dane. And that's certainly par for the course here on GB's. 

The reason for the link is to show that Denmark is not a poor country, and no i don´t think Luxemborg or Brunei could host it. And yes of course it takes accommodations. But I still cant see that as a problem in Copenhagen... Copenhagen grow with about 15.000 inhabitants a year, and there are a big miss of cheeper appartments, and that has been the case for all the century and I expect it to continue. Yes the Olympics need more accommodations. But lets say 10.000 appartments, with 4 in every appartment, that is 40.000 people... There are 10.000 athletes, 10.000 journalist, 10.000 officielt, 10.000 coaches and team members (big round numbers)...

But afterwords only 2 in average will live in those apartments... Then it´s only perhaps around 2 years of grow in copenhagen to fill those new appartment, And a big number of new appartment which can get the prize in general a bit down. Which is needed. 

Big infrastructure... Have you looked in my document? There are shorter to many things than today in Tokyo. We have a big international airport and if we go by my suggestion only about 5 minutes by train from the airport to athletes village and so on! 

I don´t think I can convinse you, but I just can´t see what exactly it is we can´t do. I hear, big infrastructure, big this and big that. I just miss to know more exactly, what is it we can´t do... In stead of just writing big infrastructure big venues, many volounteers (why should it not be possibile to get voluenteers from Germany, Great Britian etc also), They don´t all have to be danes. 

The politic will... Well no countries have that until suddenly someone has talked aboud it and convinced someone high enough in the political system. 

And yes, if Germany or Madrid or Netherlands take a chance, we will have it hard. But I believe we could have a small chance. 

[FYI]

2 hours ago, Hansfromdenmark said:

The reason for the link is to show that Denmark is not a poor country, and no i don´t think Luxemborg or Brunei could host it. 

I never said that Denmark is a poor country. That's precisely why I brought up Luxembourg in the first place. As you also acknowledge their lack there of, despite their wealth.

2 hours ago, Hansfromdenmark said:

I don´t think I can convinse you, but I just can´t see what exactly it is we can´t do. I hear, big infrastructure, big this and big that. I just miss to know more exactly, what is it we can´t do... In stead of just writing big infrastructure big venues, many volounteers (why should it not be possibile to get voluenteers from Germany, Great Britian etc also), They don´t all have to be danes. 

The politic will... Well no countries have that until suddenly someone has talked aboud it and convinced someone high enough in the political system. 

And yes, if Germany or Madrid or Netherlands take a chance, we will have it hard. But I believe we could have a small chance. 

 It's not a matter about being convinced, though. If we're talking about a competition, then Copenhagen has to be put up against that. Has absolutely nothing to do of where the volunteers are from, or what have you. And if there's going to be other candidates that are going to be better equipped in all the categories that matter the most, then that's how we have to gauge the process. Doesn't matter on how much thought you've given your 'document'. I'm sure many of our fellow bid book fanatics on here (well, mainly just one other in particular lol) can put together a bid dossier on just about any city out there that can look good on paper. 

Again, I never said it was impossible. I said it'd be a *stretch*, which could also mean "small chance", as you just described it yourself. So I don't see what the problem is here. I think in the end, we're looking at it in the same way, but you're looking more at it in the sense of mainly Copenhagen.  Whereas I'm looking at it more of all things considered (i.e. competition).

[arwebb]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:18 PM, Rob. said:

iirc they've lowered the Games capacity to 30k. So some way off even the small 50k stadium Brisbane is looking at constructing.

Also, grossly off-topic, but I seem to remember you're a Grimsby fan. I doubt you're overjoyed to be back in the National League, but I see you're visiting my local team for your first match of the new campaign.

Better to be in the National League with new ownership than in the Football League with the previous regime still in control. I'm busy that weekend so won't be there but I just hope the toilet facilities are more stable than when I previously visited.