Beijing 2022 Ceremonies

[Sir Rols]

33 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

The issue is similar to whether a person is or isn't going on a bit too much about his income, job, house, car, travels, etc.

It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears. There's Papa bear, Mama bear and Baby bear. The trick is in finding the "just right."

Pity you’ve yet to find that sweet spot

[Olympics2028]

^ Actually, over the past few decades - and given this thread is titled "Beijing 2022 Ceremonies" - the 2022 OOC ironically (or not) came closer to what I consider setting the right tone or theme of an Olympic games ceremony. I'm placing it against the backdrop of a winter games like Salt Lake City 2002 or a summer games like Beijing 2008, London 2012 or Rio 2016.

The producer seemed to realize he was providing the bookends to a sports event, not a chamber-of-commerce trade show or music concert. Or entertainment awards show.

There were a few pre-filmed sections, which I don't think are ideal for a live event, that nonetheless fit the theme. Some of them were amusing too, but not in an over-the-top Mr-Bean type way. I'm thinking of that shot of people walking up an escalator and suddenly moving back and forth as though they are athletes in a bobsleigh competition.

Since I've only watched segments of Olympic openings and closings, I'm sure there are aspects of any ceremony that may be better (or worse) than I realize. But 2022 seemed like it found a better balance than most summer and winter Olympic games' ceremonies do.

[Sir Rols]

56 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

Since I've only watched segments of Olympic openings and closings, I'm sure there are aspects of any ceremony that may be better (or worse) than I realize. But 2022 seemed like it found a better balance than most summer and winter Olympic games' ceremonies do.

And that’s part of the problem, and why it’s hard to give your rants too much credence. Most opening ceremonies are designed to be watched in full and their various parts, particularly the artistic segments, often follow a story, a linking thread or a theme that should be appreciated in full. This is particularly so in many of the ceremonies you vent so much against. It would be like critiquing West Side Story on the basis of only ever seeing one song, dismissing the Godfather because you didn’t like the trailer or trashing War & Peace after only having read one chapter from the middle of the book. All of them still may not be to your taste, but they can only be fairly judged from their entirety.

[Olympics2028]

42 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Most opening ceremonies are designed to be watched in full and their various parts, particularly the artistic segments, often follow a story, a linking thread or a theme that should be appreciated in full.

I'll give you that. But the general tone or personality of an Olympics, specifically its ceremonies, often can be determined by just a few moving parts, not just the entire thing.

For instance, the tone of the 2012 games started coming to the surface when its organizing committee unveiled their games' logo. The personality of that event to me never changed much from that day forward.

I just saw a video (posted by baron) of a part of the 2012 closing, a section that I've never seen before. It pretty much fit the template of the rest of that games' opening and closing.

Generally, when I see more and more of a games' ceremony, it only reinforces my original impression of it. Rarely does it make me go, whoa, that's way better than I thought it would be! Or, whoa, that's way worse than I rated it previously.

[Chris_Mex]

2 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

I'll give you that. But the general tone or personality of an Olympics, specifically its ceremonies, often can be determined by just a few moving parts, not just the entire thing.

For instance, the tone of the 2012 games started coming to the surface when its organizing committee unveiled their games' logo. The personality of that event to me never changed much from that day forward.

I just saw a video (posted by baron) of a part of the 2012 closing, a section that I've never seen before. It pretty much fit the template of the rest of that games' opening and closing.

Generally, when I see more and more of a games' ceremony, it only reinforces my original impression of it. Rarely does it make me go, whoa, that's way better than I thought it would be! Or, whoa, that's way worse than I rated it previously.

Ok now I understand your point about the olympics. If you havent seen the whole london 2012 opening and closing ceremonies, I'd invite you to watch it entirely, it takes only 2 hours if you skip the athletes parade. It's very worthy, swear your image of the 2012 olympics will probably change. And in second place, as tokyo and beijing showed to the world, the personality of an olympics is not only the ceremonies, it's also (and very romantic from my part), the spirit of the athletes and fans. Tokyo I will personally remember the lack of spectators as the school tournament olympics, it was like when your classmates cheered on you, or being japan was almost like a sports anime. Rio 2016 was more like a beach summer party environment, so the images of copacabana and the barra de tijuca park vibrant colours lifted the environment. And london was like the pop culture olympics, like everything around it's esence just felt like you were in a rock concert, also being england house of the most important festivals, it felt like the glastonbury of the olympic editions. Also beijing 2008 were the olympics of the chinese imaginary, all themed up as dragons, pandas, temples, broadcasting in my country developed a humble yet legendary and amusing image of chinese summer culture, different environment from 2022 which personally I felt more "orchestrated" (maybe because of the partial lack of fans) but at the same time a more modern approach from what was shown in 2008. So yeah, you can't reduce the olympics to just 15 minute segments of the ceremonies, all of them are accompanied by the passion the surrounding environmen, the fans and the athletes gives to them, bet you paris will have the "romantic cosmopolitan european" olympics, and LA will have the "hollywood big production/ superbowlish" environment around it.

[Quaker2001]

7 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

If the pandemic made the producer tone down the overdone nature of previous ceremonies, than, yep, for me that's a positive.

But the 2008 games didn't have any such restraints.  Yet the second Olympics in Beijing seemed closer to the theme and spirit (minus the politics) of "Olympics."

If 2012 was too British-fied, 2008 was to China-fied.

I doubt there are too many people out there who believe that about 2012 (or 2008) other than you.  Having the host country tell you a story about themselves is what an Olympics ceremony is supposed to be all about.  It's their show.  Particularly in 2008 when China was trying to show itself off to the world.  I'm not sure why you would expect otherwise.

Yes, this ceremony was toned down, although anything would seem tame in comparison to 2008.  Years from now though, which ceremony are people going to remember.  The one where China spared almost no expense to create a giant spectacle?  Or the less overdone version that you claim to be more in the spirit of the Olympics.  I think you know the answer to that one

[Olympics2028]

1 hour ago, Chris_Mex said:

So yeah, you can't reduce the olympics to just 15 minute segments of the ceremonies, all of them are accompanied by the passion the surrounding environmen, the fans and the athletes gives to them, bet you paris will have the "romantic cosmopolitan european" olympics, and LA will have the "hollywood big production/ superbowlish" environment around it.

We just have different impressions of what so-called Olympic ceremonies should involve.

I just recall a writer saying several years ago that openings/closings had lost some charm through the years.

I still think my overall take is similar to this:

 

 

 

[Olympics2028]

2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Years from now though, which ceremony are people going to remember.  The one where China spared almost no expense to create a giant spectacle?  Or the less overdone version that you claim to be more in the spirit of the Olympics.  I think you know the answer to that one

 

Probably.

In turn, older Olympic ceremonies, from around over 60 years ago, are pretty much forgotten. But I still think a bit of what that video of old music versus new music relates to, that something about newer cultural trends and traditions in the Olympic movement are losing a certain level of staying power too.

[Sir Rols]

17 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

We just have different impressions of what so-called Olympic ceremonies should involve.

It’s just amazing you have such strong views on something you admit you don’t watch.

it must be hard for you living in the 21st century. I think you were born about 70 years too late for your tastes.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Sir Rols

[Chris_Mex]

16 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

We just have different impressions of what so-called Olympic ceremonies should involve.

I just recall a writer saying several years ago that openings/closings had lost some charm through the years.

I still think my overall take is similar to this:

 

 

 

See, I am really trying to understand your POV, but you're pretty irrational, if you dislike so much the way olympic are being done nowadays, why are you even a fan of them in the first place. You say you don't watch the sports, you don't like the ceremonies, you don't like the atmosphere and the lavishness surrounding it. I assume if you take debates on this site with such a passion, you love the olympics they way most of us do, but why?. Why liking something you will only criticise, 1950s olympics were good?, I don't think so, but i understand that that was what telecom technology, and construction methods allowed at the time. Nowadays you have the tokyo 2020 olympics were billions of people watched an opening ceremony on an state of the art stadium full of screens, fireworks and drone displays, with literally any single spectator on stands, and that's wrong? not, cuz that's what modern times technology allows. Olympics, as world expo displays the state of the art of the world we are living in. And in the sports side (which is what the olympics are after all), is the world uniting in one city to being only sportsmen, and the crowds celebrating big human achievments. Really, if you think that olympics are wrong for what they are becoming nowadays, you're welcome to post your opinion. But come on, why are you so passionate of an event you dislike so much?

[Quaker2001]

6 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

Probably.

In turn, older Olympic ceremonies, from around over 60 years ago, are pretty much forgotten. But I still think a bit of what that video of old music versus new music relates to, that something about newer cultural trends and traditions in the Olympic movement are losing a certain level of staying power too.

There's some truth to that, but that's more about the state of the world than anything and where social media has shortened people's attention spans.  People are less inclined these days to spend 4 hours watching an even as opposed to spending 4 minutes watching the highlights online.  And that has little to do with how the Olympics are presented, as if they did it more simple and understated that it would draw more people in.

Ceremonies from 60 years ago don't have a lot of video associated with them.  It was closer to the dawn of the TV era so people didn't gather to world like they have in more recent years.  Usher in 1984 which became 1 of the first big spectacles of a ceremony (which I know you dislike) and people of a certain age can remember seeing it.  People will forever remember the image of the flaming arrow in Barcelona because it's iconic.

Once again, we all get that you have different tastes and that's fine, but you feel to continue to fail at grasping the point of who the audience is that the Olympics are trying to right.  It's less you and much more the younger, social media obsessed crowd that wants to see fireworks and pop culture and big video displays, not choirs and orchestras and a bunch of protocol.  If you want to bemoan what the Olympics have become, that's understandable, but this insistent ranting and raving about how the Olympics doesn't suit your personal tastes is - well, to riff off Rols and borrow another Grampa Simpson reference (although his is much better)..

My suggestion to you.. figure out a way to get over yourself.  I don't mean that in a negative way, but you're talking about how the 2028 are on the brink of disaster because they don't fit your vision of what their ceremonies should be.  Try taking a marketing class or 2 and maybe you'll key in to what the wider audience wants.  Otherwise, it's all just a lot of "the Olympics are terrible because they're not doing what my very unique personal tastes are geared towards."  Except of course the 2022 ceremonies, which clearly weren't what the hosts wanted them to be because of circumstances no one would wish on anyone, not even China given what they unleashed on the world

[Quaker2001]

One more thing...

I've looked back on Olympics coverage from the 80s and 90s, and often times there's a different vibe to it.  I can wax nostalgic about what the Olympics felt like back then when the world's athletes gathering together was a bigger deal than it is now.  Again, it's not because the Olympics were better than.  It's a reflection of society and sports and media where these athletes and events rarely got a major platform outside of the Olympics.  Contrast that to today where Mikaela Shiffrin leaves the Olympics without a medal, but less than 2 weeks later, she's back to competing in the World Cup season and she's being talked about on social media.

So again, it's understandable to pine for the good old days.  That was a different age of how the world functioned that doesn't exist anymore.  That perhaps has taken some luster off of the spectacle that is the Olympic Games.  You can say it was better back then.  But then maybe there's a reason the ceremonies have evolved over the years

[Olympics2028]

^ It's odd that all of you don't seem to deal with my post where I mentioned that the most recent Olympics, the 2022 winter games in Beijing (which this thread is focused upon), actually seemed to organize their ceremonies in a more fitting, appropriate way than various other games of the past few decades have done. That's MY opinion, I didn't say that's YOUR opinion. I don't demand that be YOUR opinion too. Okay?

As for Beijing, I can't grouse about 2022 winter games' ceremony the way I've gone on about, by contrast, 2012.

Also, the video above about new music versus old doesn't mean people on either side of that equation hate music. Or that they love music more than others do.

I think SoFi Stadium is going to be a dud for the 2028 Olympics. But that doesn't mean I hate stadiums or I that hate the NFL. Or that I hate SoFi for sports in general or concerts in particular.

A few years ago I read that most of Netflix's newer TV shows, the ones made exclusively for Netflix, attracted a smaller audience than their re-runs of older TV shows (produced by others) did. That doesn't mean the viewers who are causing that hated TV in general or TV sitcoms/drama in particular, etc.

[Olympics2028]

8 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

But come on, why are you so passionate of an event you dislike so much?

I can say that if you are passionate about, say, liver or steak tartare, why do you dislike food so much?

[Quaker2001]

46 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

^ It's odd that all of you don't seem to deal with my post where I mentioned that the most recent Olympics, the 2022 winter games in Beijing (which this thread is focused upon), actually seemed to organize their ceremonies in a more fitting, appropriate way than various other games of the past few decades have done. That's MY opinion, I didn't say that's YOUR opinion. I don't demand that be YOUR opinion too. Okay?

No, what's odd is that you seemed to miss that I very specifically acknowledged your opinion about the 2022 Olympics and noted that the tenor of their ceremonies was likely more about circumstances out of their control rather than to accommodate what you consider to be more fitting and appropriate.  We all are aware this is your personal opinion and no one has a problem with that.  Where you take the discussion outside the bounds of "opinion" is where you think other Olympics and their organizing committees are somehow failing in their mission because they don't conform to your personal preferences of what the ceremonies should be.  And yes, you very much come off like an old crank when you push that narrative that you're dissatisfied with the direction the Olympics have gone while continuing to be naive to what has led them down that path.  You can bemoan it all you want, but at least try to understand the world we all live in and why these OOC's do what they do and who they are trying to appeal to rather than being all..

That's where the disconnect exists.  Understand how that comes off in a discussion forum like this when so much of your opinions are "this needs to be more like I want it to be or else it sucks."  Take caution - especially if you're going to post as often as you do - about separating personal preference and the general appeal for an event that has a massive worldwide audience like almost nothing else out there

[Olympics2028]

^ In your other post you mention how some of the so-called luster (or what I call charm and prestige) has been taken off the Olympics. Your theory for that focuses on changing media, more competition among sports organizations, shorter attention spans. Or also what can be called trendy-hipster tastes.

Yep, I don't deny any of that.

But my theory includes the tone or "personality" of a games, influenced by things like their ceremonies, has added to that tarnish.

You also imply that the 2022 winter games turned out that way because of the pandemic. Or not because of the games' producer, but in spite of him. You don't apparently believe the event just as much reflected his creative sensibilities.

Regardless - and if only by default - I think 2022 fit "Olympics" better than 2012 or 2016, etc, did. Even the 2002 winter games' opening included what to me was a "WTF?!" moment.

[Olympics2028]

1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

You can bemoan it all you want, but at least try to understand the world we all live in and why these OOC's do what they do and who they are trying to appeal to rather than being all..

I've said that more than money/budget, logistical/technical factors or (as you describe them) "trying to appeal to" alone, that a lot of what any person or group does is also greatly influenced by his, her, their personal tastes and personal opinions.

For example, the 1984 OOC somehow got the IOC to waive (for their ceremonies) the part of IOC bylaws that say Olympic events must include both English and French. That was very much a creative choice or preference of the 1984's producer.

I read that when Ronald Reagan opened the 1984 games, he altered his words proscribed by the IOC. He went, "Celebrating the 23rd Olympiad of the modern era, I hereby declare open the games of Los Angeles."

Several years later, Bill Clinton opened the 1996 games by sticking with the traditional words of, "I hereby declare open the games of Atlanta, celebrating the 26th Olympiad of the modern era."

The way a games are organized is also very much a matter of personal taste, personal choice, personal opinion.

 

[Quaker2001]

2 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

^ In your other post you mention how some of the so-called luster (or what I call charm and prestige) has been taken off the Olympics. Your theory for that focuses on changing media, more competition among sports organizations, shorter attention spans. Or also what can be called trendy-hipster tastes.

Yep, I don't deny any of that.

But my theory includes the tone or "personality" of a games, influenced by things like their ceremonies, has added to that tarnish.

You also imply that the 2022 winter games turned out that way because of the pandemic. Or not because of the games' producer, but in spite of him. You don't apparently believe the event just as much reflected his creative sensibilities.

Regardless - and if only by default - I think 2022 fit "Olympics" better than 2012 or 2016, etc, did. Even the 2002 winter games' opening included what to me was a "WTF?!" moment.

Yet again, here's the disconnect with you.  Are you basing that theory on your personal preferences and assume that the masses out there feel the same way?  I think you need to look what fits "Olympics" from a wider vantage point than through the narrow lens of your personal preferences.

When I mention that the Olympics have lost some of their luster, that's not based on personal opinion.  I base it on larger trends and observations.  If part of your thinking is about the personality of the games, there's a point to be made there for sure, but I think there might be a little recency bias where the last 2 Olympics were held during a pandemic (and it's not just an implication that it affected the 2022 games, including the ceremonies.. that's pretty much an incontrovertible fact).  And 2 other recent Olympics (Sochi and Rio) weren't exactly the grand celebrations that the Olympics are supposed to be.

2 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

I've said that more than money/budget, logistical/technical factors or (as you describe them) "trying to appeal to" alone, that a lot of what any person or group does is also greatly influenced by his, her, their personal tastes and personal opinions.

For example, the 1984 OOC somehow got the IOC to waive (for their ceremonies) the part of IOC bylaws that say Olympic events must include both English and French. That was very much a creative choice or preference of the 1984's producer.

I read that when Ronald Reagan opened the 1984 games, he altered his words proscribed by the IOC. He went, "Celebrating the 23rd Olympiad of the modern era, I hereby declare open the games of Los Angeles."

Several years later, Bill Clinton opened the 1996 games by sticking with the traditional words of, "I hereby declare open the games of Atlanta, celebrating the 26th Olympiad of the modern era."

The way a games are organized is also very much a matter of personal taste, personal choice, personal opinion.

Can't argue with that last sentence.  What's your point though?  There are certain elements of the ceremonies that are designed to be formulaic, but some of that evolves over time.  To play it off as "well that's the way it's always been done" is to be stuck in the past.  It's usually not good business sense.  What worked 40 years ago may not work now.

So yes, it's a matter of preference, but if you were in charge of an OOC or the ceremonies, you would have to know what appeals to your audience.  That's who they are playing to.  Not what their personal preferences are.  I don't claim to be an expert in knowing what people want, but I trust that those in charge of these things have done their homework.  Again, that's what I think you need to be more in tune with.  As you have undoubtedly learned by now, you're surrounded by people here who have some really strong opinions on things like the ceremonies.  There's a fine line though between "I don't like this about the Olympics, I think it sucks" and "The Olympics suck because I don't like this."  

[Sir Rols]

I guess we should be grateful for the activity and engagement, but…

Nice try @Quaker2001, fair and well reasoned (especially as I know you’re not a ceremony fanatic), but I think you’re wasting your keystrokes on Oly2028. He doesn’t want to discuss, he just wants to spam us with his tastes as the only correct tastes. What can you say about his new-found enthusiasm for Beijing’s ceremonies? He freely admits to not having watched it (he’s never arched any ceremonies), but on the basis that in a rare episode of unanimity GamesBids members have pretty well universally panned it he thinks they must the best ever.

I’m actually starting to think that he’s a Nolympics type who’s just come here to troll us.  

Edited March 22, 2022 by Sir Rols

[Olympics2028]

31 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

Yet again, here's the disconnect with you.  Are you basing that theory on your personal preferences and assume that the masses out there feel the same way?

And 2 other recent Olympics (Sochi and Rio) weren't exactly the grand celebrations that the Olympics are supposed to be.

 

 

Just know that the written word (such as in my posts) can come off with a different tone than the spoken word does.

I like discussing the subject of "Olympics." You guys have been doing this for awhile, so a lot of what I'm going on about is old news or a rehash of a rehash for some of you. 

When another user (I think it was the guy who's based in Mexico) started off by saying "I don't mean to be rude...", I think people who give their opinions is what makes a forum work or interesting.

I notice some folks  - not just in this board but forums in general - however,  express more indignation or resentment than one would think might happen. I recall seeing fighting and flaming at gamesbid several years ago, and I went yowsa.

This isn't in reference to your post, but the way that forums in general - from A to Z - are notorious for banning and censoring. Again, yowsa. It's the reason why I now understand what inspired George Orwell to do his "1984." That's his novel, not a reference to the 23rd Olympiad of the modern era.

This is my long-winded way of saying I think the producer of the 2022 winter games did a fairly good presentation. I can't find fault with his ceremonies (the parts that I watched) the way I do with 2008, 2012 or 2016. Etc. 

I read someone say a few years ago that Olympic openings/closings seemed to no longer be as much about the athletes as other things. The guy in charge of 2022 seemed to have a sense of that.

 

[JMarkSnow2012]

12 hours ago, Olympics2028 said:

 

I read someone say a few years ago that Olympic openings/closings seemed to no longer be as much about the athletes as other things. The guy in charge of 2022 seemed to have a sense of that.

 

There's more time devoted to the athletes in a normal (no-quarantine) 21st century Olympic opening than there was in the average 20th century Olympic opening. Let that sink in, and then contemplate newsreels.

[Olympics2028]

5 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

There's more time devoted to the athletes in a normal (no-quarantine) 21st century Olympic opening than there was in the average 20th century Olympic opening. Let that sink in, and then contemplate newsreels.

 

In 2012, for example, sports and the athletes got submerged in tributes to UK pop music and "London, London, London!"

Some of that was fine. But 2012's producer overdid it.

 

 

[JMarkSnow2012]

38 minutes ago, Olympics2028 said:

 

In 2012, for example, sports and the athletes got submerged in tributes to UK pop music and "London, London, London!"

Some of that was fine. But 2012's producer overdid it.

 

 

I get the impression you haven't yet contemplated newsreels.

[baron-pierreIV]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:00 PM, Olympics2028 said:

Which reminds me of how members of the main choir used in 1996 were dressed up in church-choir uniforms. Not sure, however, if that choir actually was from a church in Atlanta.

Regardless, to me, the look of that group wasn't good or ideal for an Olympics ceremony.

You missed the point.  Church choirs are a BIG THING in the US South.  The OC wanted to incorporate that feature.  And no, it wasn't one particular church choir.  It was an amalgam of the best of the choir singers of the Atlanta area.  Too bad they didn't consult you on the outfit.  Where were you and your expertise?  

They saved the idea of a separately known choir/glee club for the CLosing with the Morehouse College Men's Glee CLub accompaying 2-note Gloria Estefan.  

[Olympics2028]

2 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

I get the impression you haven't yet contemplated newsreels.

 

Your post made me think of London 1948 and how certain people in 2012 complained the games' cauldron couldn't be seen from outside the stadium. But that was a format used in London over 70 years ago.

In terms of 2022, they went even smaller than that. They got rid of a cauldron entirely and had a runner's torch attached to that plexiglass star. That's one aspect of 2022 that I think should have been re-thought.

 

 

^ Notice how - unlike 2012 (and, for that matter, 2022 too) 1947 had a full-time, ceremony-length choir.

Similarly, the Olympic flag  in 1947 (unlike in 2012 and 2022, etc) was on a flagpole located all alone.

Such elements give more of a big-time tone and quality to an opening/closing and "Olympics" in general.