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Moved 2022 before its to late.


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On 11/20/2021 at 3:30 PM, Brekkie Boy said:

Even if Peng Shuai turns out to be safe and well the fact it's even a question raises questions.   If Tokyo 2020 can be delayed a year then Beijing can be axed.   If sponsors can pull out of other events for much lesser reasons then they can pull out of this too.

Scrap it and sort out some sort of centenial event in 2024 instead.

One has nothing to do with the other.  Tokyo 2020 was delayed out of a mutual agreement between the organizers and the IOC.  And we know what the public perception was that at times, it seemed the IOC was forcing Tokyo into hosting the Olympics in spite of the cost and all the struggles with COVID.  There is ZERO chance there is any interest from the IOC or from the Beijing organizers to "axe" these Olympics.  Who exactly do you think would be making that decision? 

Yea sure, the sponsors *can* pull out.  But they're not going to because making money is more important than having principles.  Don't conflate something people or companies could do with what they're going to do.  Otherwise it's just a bunch of wishful thinking.

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18 hours ago, Ikarus360 said:

Oh, no, a diplomatic boycott. I'm pretty sure the CCP is totally going to care very much about this instead of giving zero fucks and laughing at the west.

Seriously, some people in this thread need to get real.

They'll start caring if corporations start pulling their money out of China as a result.  Not going to happen in the short term.  Anyone involved with the Olympics is in too deep and a lot of people - think the NBA - don't have the balls to stand up to China.  But if the United States government is telling China they don't want to be there, then maybe others will follow suit.  Strong emphasis on *maybe*.  And you're right, China probably doesn't give a **** about diplomatic boycotts.  Let's see if they're still laughing at the West if NBC uses some of their airtime to do a deep dive into China's human rights abuses.  Because once the Olympics are over, they have no obligation at all to make them look good just to make sure the Olympics go on and they can make their millions in ad money

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8 hours ago, iceman530 said:

did..........did Bach just do that???  My god........he really is a puppet of money isnt he.  I had low expectations buy holy hell dude.  That woman is in danger, and it is abundantly clear, and you play second fiddle for the CCP?  That is low.....

8 hours ago, iceman530 said:

The odds of protests of significant scale just skyrocketed, as did personal boycotts of female athletes IMO.  There is no way for the CCP to walk back the obvious psy ops they are doing to Peng.

3 hours ago, Rob. said:

Leave it to the IOC to take a bad situation and somehow manage to make it even worse.  We'll have to see how this whole saga plays out, but the longer it drags on without real confirmation that Peng is okay, the uglier it'll be for the IOC and yes, I could see some athletes pulling out of the Olympics as a result.  But that's if and only if this doesn't resolve itself in the next 2 months.  We don't know that it won't.  Right now it's just amplified because it's fresh news with an uncertain outcome

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On 11/19/2021 at 6:34 AM, Quaker2001 said:

Hopeful that once we hit February, we'll be talking about sports and the athletes (well, other sites will be.. this one doesn't care so much about sports and the athletes, here that's just filler between the ceremonies)

:lol:

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3 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

American politicians have talked about sanctions on sponsors as a way to push the USOC into boycotting.

Well the USA operates under a capitalist free enterprise system. Any attempt to sanction sponsors for doing good business would backfire horribly in a court of law.

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3 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

American politicians have talked about sanctions on sponsors as a way to push the USOC into boycotting.

They've been talking about that for months now.  Has any sponsor actually been sanctioned?  Of course not.  It's all talk and no action. 

It's 74 days until the Olympics.  At this point, there is next to nothing that can be done to force the USOPC to boycott.  It's not going to happen and nothing we've seen or heard should indicate that it will.

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47 minutes ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

They are US sanctions against Iran that do that. Haven’t been struck down in any court.

No comparison. Sanctions against Iran are part of a ban on trade not to mention the U.S. does not even recognize the legitimacy of the Iranian regime diplomatically. No chance the U.S. would go down the same path with China. As they say, this is business.

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2 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

They are US sanctions against Iran that do that. Haven’t been struck down in any court.

According to the US Census Bureau, the most that the United States has imported from Iran in a year was a little under $100 million.  In September of 2021, the United States imported more than $47 *billion* worth of goods from China.  Like stryker said, there's absolutely no comparison.  If the US government starts sanctioning American companies for dealing with China, then how could they expect to deal with China themselves?

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12 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Leave it to the IOC to take a bad situation and somehow manage to make it even worse.  We'll have to see how this whole saga plays out, but the longer it drags on without real confirmation that Peng is okay, the uglier it'll be for the IOC and yes, I could see some athletes pulling out of the Olympics as a result.  But that's if and only if this doesn't resolve itself in the next 2 months.  We don't know that it won't.  Right now it's just amplified because it's fresh news with an uncertain outcome

The thing about this window is 2 months is enough time to attempt to sort out this situation and clean it up.  If they dont do that, its not enough time for anyone to forget about it either. And finally, its plenty of time for it go get worse. China really screwed themselves here by being.......who they are.  and so did the IOC, also by being who they are.  Birds of a feather and such.  

The "best case scenario" is literally giving Peng an opportunity to speak at a podium.  And even then, who the hell is going to believe she isn't being coerced?  That is the BEST case scenario.  Thats a pretty dang awful best case scenario.  

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1 hour ago, iceman530 said:

The thing about this window is 2 months is enough time to attempt to sort out this situation and clean it up.  If they dont do that, its not enough time for anyone to forget about it either. And finally, its plenty of time for it go get worse. China really screwed themselves here by being.......who they are.  and so did the IOC, also by being who they are.  Birds of a feather and such.  

The "best case scenario" is literally giving Peng an opportunity to speak at a podium.  And even then, who the hell is going to believe she isn't being coerced?  That is the BEST case scenario.  Thats a pretty dang awful best case scenario.  

The unfortunate thing is that (supposedly) Peng has asked for privacy and doesn't want to make a public appearance.  That's understandable, but perhaps she doesn't realize what a shitstorm is brewing and how much her being in front of a camera would help calm that storm.  And yea, doesn't help the cause that this interview came with an organization that is so deeply invested in China right now that they don't want to do anything that might help public perception.

It's tough to figure where this goes from here because it doesn't seem like this is the kind of story that would just fizzle out and then something else takes its place.  Like you said, even if Peng did make an appearance, I doubt there's much she could say that would appease the masses that believe (rightfully so) that something shady is going on here.  Most importantly, we're getting to that time where athletes are qualifying for the Olympics and potentially need to decide if they don't want to travel to China.  I don't think this whole mess is going to eliminate that many would-be competitors in Beijing (certainly not anymore than circumstances might already lead to that), but it's going to continue to beg the question is China safe.

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5 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

 

It's tough to figure where this goes from here because it doesn't seem like this is the kind of story that would just fizzle out and then something else takes its place.  Like you said, even if Peng did make an appearance, I doubt there's much she could say that would appease the masses that believe (rightfully so) that something shady is going on here.  Most importantly, we're getting to that time where athletes are qualifying for the Olympics and potentially need to decide if they don't want to travel to China.  I don't think this whole mess is going to eliminate that many would-be competitors in Beijing (certainly not anymore than circumstances might already lead to that), but it's going to continue to beg the question is China safe.

Unfortunately, I think this will eventually fizzle about much the like the Kashoggi situation with Saudi Arabia. It will be brought up in the media from time to time, but there will not be any serious retribution for China over this. For instance, if China wants to throw its hat in the ring for 2036 or something like the World Cup, the current situation with Peng is not going to doom any bids. I predict once the Olympics get going in Beijing it will be glossed over even more by the likes of the IOC. I also expect that in the lead up time to the Olympics very explicit instructions will be given to participating athletes regarding what they can and cannot say in China and I'm sure part of that warning will be that Peng is not up for discussion or protest.

In terms of where this leaves the IOC, it's a black mark on an already poor public relations perception. It confirms what many have said for years, the IOC pays lip service when it comes to human rights. The likes of Bach, Coates and the rest of the crew could honestly care less.

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6 hours ago, stryker said:

Unfortunately, I think this will eventually fizzle about much the like the Kashoggi situation with Saudi Arabia. It will be brought up in the media from time to time, but there will not be any serious retribution for China over this. For instance, if China wants to throw its hat in the ring for 2036 or something like the World Cup, the current situation with Peng is not going to doom any bids. I predict once the Olympics get going in Beijing it will be glossed over even more by the likes of the IOC. I also expect that in the lead up time to the Olympics very explicit instructions will be given to participating athletes regarding what they can and cannot say in China and I'm sure part of that warning will be that Peng is not up for discussion or protest.

In terms of where this leaves the IOC, it's a black mark on an already poor public relations perception. It confirms what many have said for years, the IOC pays lip service when it comes to human rights. The likes of Bach, Coates and the rest of the crew could honestly care less.

I want to think that when the Olympics start, the focus will be on the athletes.  Much like it was with Tokyo where all the fears about COVID and the empty stadiums took a backseat to the competition once the competition started.  That may not be the case here. Because once the games start, those screaming the loudest about China will probably scream even louder.

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Yeah, respectfully disagree that this is gonna be glossed over.  2 months out this will still be fresh IMO.  That is not enough time to brush this one under the rug, try as they might.  And yes, as mentioned, this is the time when athletes are making their decisions to go or not, so this has a different tone than even the concentration camp stuff.  The concentration camps were known stimuli, and the IOC pushed on full speed ahead.  Peng is a different stimuli, and it brings to a front the question of if the IOC thinks it acceptable for host nations to conduct psyops campaigns on their own athletes to the point they are disappeared from public for X amount of time.  The only way people forget about Peng is if China ups the ante somewhere else.  I think the only thing they could do that is stupider in the build up now is putting landing craft on a Taiwanese beach head.  Everything China is doing right now is making Jersey Shore look like a Broadway masterpiece.  

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1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

I want to think that when the Olympics start, the focus will be on the athletes.  Much like it was with Tokyo where all the fears about COVID and the empty stadiums took a backseat to the competition once the competition started.  That may not be the case here. Because once the games start, those screaming the loudest about China will probably scream even louder.

Most of that screaming will come from outside of China and as you say the focus will be on the athletes so I highly doubt those protesting will get more than a token nod. On another note, it looks like Sebastian Coe is towing the same line that Bach and company are. His comparisons to 1936 are ridiculous and his statement that the Olympics are not sportswashing is downright false.

 

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1115817/diplomatic-boycott-beijing-2022-olympics

 

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16 hours ago, Brekkie Boy said:

Bach needs to resign for playing such a role in the whole fiasco.   Frankly he's been a disaster as head of the IOC.

15 hours ago, iceman530 said:

The lack of his self-awareness is shocking.  He might as well have gone to Auschwitz with a selfie stick and smiled while he took Instagram pictures.

All the things that Bach has done since he's been head of the IOC and this is the one that you're calling for his job on?  Just for "playing a role"?

The optics of this are obviously awful.  Bach has what's essentially a secret video call with Peng and then proclaims to everyone "no, it's okay, I talked to her, she's fine."  I said it upthread.. totally get her desire for wanting privacy, but somehow she thought this is the best person to talk to?  Less than 3 months out from the Olympics where the IOC clearly wants nothing to do with saying a bad word about China.  Which makes it interesting that the IOC said previously they wouldn't get involved in matters involving human rights.  And here they are getting involved in a human rights situation.

I don't think we need to liken this to the Holocaust, but lack of self-awareness seems to be par for the course for the IOC.  There shouldn't be any surprises about that.  And until Peng goes in front of a camera again (preferrably one the rest of the world can see in real time), then yes, the IOC will continue to look awful for their part in this

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On 11/25/2021 at 3:12 PM, Quaker2001 said:

Surprised no comment from REDWHITEBLUE on this breaking news..

 

 

IPAC have got ahead of themselves here.

Watching that, it's pretty clear that Rees-Mogg (as odious as he is) is giving a rather careful answer that leaves room for a decision either way.

This has since been clarified and confirmed by No 10...

“We have said that the Prime Minister’s long-standing view is that boycotts don’t work.

“Our position is the same: no decision has been made on Government representation at the games.”

Edited by Rob.
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Beijing 2022 is as good as burnt toast. I also get the feeling that China's probably over big international prestige events for the headache they produce. 

Beijing 2022 will be one of the most soulless Games ever with the oncoming restrictions on attendance and boycotts. Tokyo was underscored by hope and togetherness. Beijing is isolated and alone. 

Also - Fencing 1976 has been so harmful to the Olympic movement. 

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2 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Beijing 2022 is as good as burnt toast. I also get the feeling that China's probably over big international prestige events for the headache they produce. 

Beijing 2022 will be one of the most soulless Games ever with the oncoming restrictions on attendance and boycotts. Tokyo was underscored by hope and togetherness. Beijing is isolated and alone. 

Also - Fencing 1976 has been so harmful to the Olympic movement. 

I'm sure there's plenty of sentiment within the IOC to just get these Olympics over with and then move on to Paris 2024 and Milan-Cortina 2026.  Especially from the 40 out of the 84 IOC voting members who in 2015 decided that Beijing wasn't the best option for them.  And yes, I agree that as much as Tokyo will forever be remembered having been tainted by COVID, at least there were positive vibes there.  Beijing, not so much.

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5 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Beijing 2022 is as good as burnt toast. I also get the feeling that China's probably over big international prestige events for the headache they produce. 

Beijing 2022 will be one of the most soulless Games ever with the oncoming restrictions on attendance and boycotts. Tokyo was underscored by hope and togetherness. Beijing is isolated and alone. 

Also - Fencing 1976 has been so harmful to the Olympic movement. 

I dunno, never underestimate an authoritarian state with an ego.  

And hell, if they can get through an Olympics with literal concentration camps in the background and disappearing a national sports figure, they can pretty much host again thinking its not gonna get any worse than that.  Or maybe they think they could get away with more?  Shanghai 2036 here we come

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