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On 8/15/2020 at 9:31 PM, Ikarus360 said:

So many things that could had been avoided by just electing Almaty. Many of you fail to realize the IOC is yet another puppet organization of Winnie Pooh. If we want China to stop being awared so much advantage, the first step is to get rid of the people in charge in Laussane.

Knowing the IOC Bach will forced out by the boycott to be replaced by a chinese puppet as many pro americain ioc members resign

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My goodness, man.. get off Pavlovian streak of yours when you get excited anytime you see the slightest hint of what could look like a boycott. You do realize that Trump is about to no longer be

What’s that? Suicide for fear of death?    Never in a million years would athletes en masse go for that idea.

I mean, it's only fair that they are punished and equally get their games cancelled if Tokyo loses them. Even if they did not caused the pandemic, the fact that their lies and constant cover ups of th

5 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Those few votes might have killed the IOC.- If the USA Pulls out rather than simply boycotting 2022 the organisation might collapse.

I honestly think many Americain winter olympians must be preparing mentally for the USOC  to boycott 2022.

5 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:
5 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Knowing the IOC Bach will forced out by the boycott to be replaced by a chinese puppet as many pro americain ioc members resign

It's getting increasingly hard to take anything you're saying serious anymore.  You need to stop jumping ahead to where you're presuming a boycott is a done deal and treating the situation like it already has happened.  A few points..

The United States can't pull out of the IOC, they have a signed contract to host the 2028 Olympics.  So that is a complete and total non-starter right there for them to even try.  Do you really think the USOPC wants to be responsible for the death of the Olympics?  I think a few folks in Los Angeles and at Comcast might have a few things to say about that.

Americans are not mentally preparing for a 2022 boycott and it's absurd to think they are.  I'm sure they have major concerns about the state of the world right now and possibly some opinions about travelling to China.  But I doubt they're assuming there will be a boycott.  Just because you think that is not reason to project your opinions on others.

Bach will be forced out by a boycott?  Who will force him out?  Don't think you really thought that one through.

I think we all realize there will be calls for a boycott.  As if that hasn't happened before.  Yes, these will undoubtedly be louder.  But your article from the Nation makes an excellent point.. "We should carefully scrutinize who is making the calls to boycott and the demands being put forward. This is a time for solidarity, not jingoism."

If you haven't already, read through that whole story.  It makes a lot of good points, including that if certain Chinese policies go against the principles of the Olympic charter, they might find a few things that the United States might not look so good on as well.  Be careful if you're opening that can of worms right there.

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15 hours ago, paul said:

Almaty looked like the right choice all along to me.......but I guess international organizations and the IOC have a very difficult time passing up $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Additionally; it may be a display of privileged and power that we are forced to wedge winter sports at this level into places that it is not a tradition or norm.

Was Korea a mistake then?  Certainly not a traditional Winter sports nation, but aside from what they spent to make it happen, hard to find too many flaws in their nation's policies like we're scrutinizing with China.  2 important things to remember that we all know, but it bears repeating...

1) The alternative to China was Kazakhstan.  A lesser known Central Asian nation that doesn't exactly have the best political track record of their own.  It's not like Beijing beat out an Oslo or a Stockholm or a Munich in an effort to chase the big bucks.

2) The final vote tally was 44-40.  That's how close we were to having an Almaty Olympics.  All it would have taken was 3 IOC members to change their minds and we're not having this discussion.  It was never the case that China was the clear choice with little opposition.  It was very close.  History shouldn't lose sight of that fact

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On 8/17/2020 at 4:48 PM, Quaker2001 said:

It's getting increasingly hard to take anything you're saying serious anymore.  You need to stop jumping ahead to where you're presuming a boycott is a done deal and treating the situation like it already has happened.  A few points..

The United States can't pull out of the IOC, they have a signed contract to host the 2028 Olympics.  So that is a complete and total non-starter right there for them to even try.  Do you really think the USOPC wants to be responsible for the death of the Olympics?  I think a few folks in Los Angeles and at Comcast might have a few things to say about that.

Americans are not mentally preparing for a 2022 boycott and it's absurd to think they are.  I'm sure they have major concerns about the state of the world right now and possibly some opinions about travelling to China.  But I doubt they're assuming there will be a boycott.  Just because you think that is not reason to project your opinions on others.

Bach will be forced out by a boycott?  Who will force him out?  Don't think you really thought that one through.

I think we all realize there will be calls for a boycott.  As if that hasn't happened before.  Yes, these will undoubtedly be louder.  But your article from the Nation makes an excellent point.. "We should carefully scrutinize who is making the calls to boycott and the demands being put forward. This is a time for solidarity, not jingoism."

If you haven't already, read through that whole story.  It makes a lot of good points, including that if certain Chinese policies go against the principles of the Olympic charter, they might find a few things that the United States might not look so good on as well.  Be careful if you're opening that can of worms right there.

You Think Trump and his supporters will be stopped by a contract?

I just can't see a lot of IOC Members being happy if the 2020's becomes  the new 1980's with the games part of a new cold war.

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3 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Even that article says the notion is remote and a long shot.

But it does raise another possibility which is far more likely (maybe even probable), and that's a political/dignitary boycott.

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10 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

You Think Trump and his supporters will be stopped by a contract?

I just can't see a lot of IOC Members being happy if the 2020's becomes  the new 1980's with the games part of a new cold war.

Trump thinks about Trump and not much else.  No.. he's gonna do whatever he wants, no matter what the reprecussions are (unless of course they affect Trump).  But he is first and foremost a businessman, so you can be darn sure someone will be in his ear telling him what might happen with 2028.  And if he has any business interests there, he's not necessarily going to be so dumb as to hurt his own bottom line.

So yea, the IOC doesn't want another cold war.  Don't exactly have much recourse now that they handed another Olympics to China.  Not sure what they can do at this point since - and you're 100% right - their human rights profile is a lot worse now than when they were already not so good in the lead-up to 2008.

You and Rob bring up a good point though.  Maybe it's not the athletes that skip the games, but rather the international dignitaries.  Could absolutely see them skipping these Olympics as a political statement that they refuse to set foot in China.  However, think about the flipside of that with regards to Trump.  He warmed up to North Korea in hopes of repairing relations so he could be seen as having solved that conflict.  So perhaps it would be his strategy not to boycott China, but to fully support their Olympics, show up in Beijing, and then be able to claim that he changed China for the better.

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21 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

 But he is first and foremost a businessman,

Failed businessman, mostly.

And I hope we won‘t need to discuss any Trump travel plans for February 2022 after 3 November 2020.

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On 8/19/2020 at 8:00 AM, Rob. said:

Even that article says the notion is remote and a long shot.

But it does raise another possibility which is far more likely (maybe even probable), and that's a political/dignitary boycott.

Perhaps, but that would not accomplish anything either. It's not as if Russia reversed its anti-gay legislation after Obama declined to attend the Sochi games.

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21 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Failed businessman, mostly.

And I hope we won‘t need to discuss any Trump travel plans for February 2022 after 3 November 2020.

I said businessman.. would never imply he was good at it.

15 hours ago, Nacre said:

Perhaps, but that would not accomplish anything either. It's not as if Russia reversed its anti-gay legislation after Obama declined to attend the Sochi games.

That goes back to my whole point through this.. if the United States is making a political stand, what exactly is that stand?  If they're not clear about that, it'll be an empty gesture

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On 8/16/2020 at 5:39 PM, paul said:

Almaty looked like the right choice all along to me.......but I guess international organizations and the IOC have a very difficult time passing up $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Additionally; it may be a display of privileged and power that we are forced to wedge winter sports at this level into places that it is not a tradition or norm.

It was a sincere joke around here, but hindsight being 20/20.......in 2020, Almaty is unquestionably the safer choice of the two. China was obviously perceived to be the safer bet with a treasure trove of cash.  I also was always a bigger fan of the Almaty bid frankly speaking.  While no darling angels, their bid was compact and had those "mountain" things that are pretty critical to hosting Olympic events  (that and an actual winter sports culture).  It was a vintage "project 2020" bid that checked off a lot of boxes.  Instead we give it to the country that is literally running concentration camps in the 21st century.  Watching the IOC attempt to cozy up to that and say that "we dont do politics at the olympics" is going to be nauseating deflection.  

Beijing is going to be a nightmare.  A boycotted nightmare and an embarrassment.  It always should have been Almaty.  

Finally, the cost overruns are going to scare off even more nations.  Even Sapporo, who is now apparently in pole position for 2030, is getting a little skittish at the prospect because of Beijing and Tokyo, and that would be a shame because they would host an excellent Olympics IMO.

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12 hours ago, mountainboarder_530@yahoo. said:

It was a sincere joke around here, but hindsight being 20/20.......in 2020, Almaty is unquestionably the safer choice of the two. China was obviously perceived to be the safer bet with a treasure trove of cash.  I also was always a bigger fan of the Almaty bid frankly speaking.  While no darling angels, their bid was compact and had those "mountain" things that are pretty critical to hosting Olympic events  (that and an actual winter sports culture).  It was a vintage "project 2020" bid that checked off a lot of boxes.  Instead we give it to the country that is literally running concentration camps in the 21st century.  Watching the IOC attempt to cozy up to that and say that "we dont do politics at the olympics" is going to be nauseating deflection.  

Beijing is going to be a nightmare.  A boycotted nightmare and an embarrassment.  It always should have been Almaty.  

Finally, the cost overruns are going to scare off even more nations.  Even Sapporo, who is now apparently in pole position for 2030, is getting a little skittish at the prospect because of Beijing and Tokyo, and that would be a shame because they would host an excellent Olympics IMO.

Hosting an Olympics is expensive.  Hosting an excellent Olympics is even more expensive.  So you can't fault cities for being less than enthausiastic at the prospect of spending billions of dollars on an Olympics, particularly given the state of the world right now.  And that is much more apparent in Japan where they're spending a ton of money to keep the Tokyo Olympics alive, and it seems like less than a given at this point those Olympics will go forward next summer.

Let's also throw 1 thought out the window here.  No one cares what China and Russia spent on the Olympics as a barometer for how much it will cost them.  That's irrelevant to any conversation a potential future Olympics host might have.  No city is looking back at Sochi or Beijing `08 thinking "oh crap, we need to spend that to host an Olympics?"  They're looking more at Rio and PyeongChang and Vancouver and London to get a more proper assessment there.

As for Almaty vs. Beijing.. this is still the IOC we're talking about and Kazakhstan is still a very much unknown Central Asian republic that has political issues of their own.  There was nothing "safe" about that choice for them to host an event on the scale of the Winter Olympics.  Let's not go too overboard that somehow they were an ideal fit for Agenda 2020 (which doesn't have boxes to be checked.. it's about doing what is best for a city, not to fit a template).  Yes, Beijing only won because any other worth city decided they didn't want to cozy up to the IOC and they wanted the glitz and glamour of an actual city, not a mountain venue tucked away in a country a lot of people probably couldn't find on a map (yes, that's very much an "Americans are terrible at geography" comment)

So yea, will be interesting to see what happens in February of 2022 given the state of the world right now.  The lead up is going to be pretty messy.  I don't know if there will be mass athlete boycotts.  This isn't like the NBA or the NHL or MLB where they can walk off the court one day and play 3 days later.  Doesn't work like that for Olympic athletes.  As we've been discussing, I can see a bunch of political dignitaries and heads of state declining to travel to China.  I don't think it's going to happen as much with athletes, particularly in the form of a formal boycott.

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On 8/28/2020 at 11:22 AM, Quaker2001 said:

As for Almaty vs. Beijing.. this is still the IOC we're talking about and Kazakhstan is still a very much unknown Central Asian republic that has political issues of their own.

This. Kazakhstan gets less press than China, but it is a dictatorship and has the same low support for human rights as China. The IOC's choice between Almaty and Beijing was a small economy with snow and a big economy far from the mountains. There was no choice between human rights and authoritarianism. 

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I think the authoritarian thing was well known for both countries, but if comparing, one has literal......actual concentration camps with numbers in the hundreds of thousands detained within them. And then tries to justify themselves once more as fighting terrorism.  They are both authoritarian, and lord knows Kazakhstan prison cells probably have actual torture going on with them.  So yes, there is an actual heirarchy to which is worse in that regard.  Kazakhstan also doesnt have a hong kong situation either.  Furthermore, I think the Olympics could have done great things to develop Almaty and the infrastructure within;  building new hotels, new roads, trams, stuff like that.  

So, my question is, could almaty have pulled it off??  

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3 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Ask that question next February when hopefully he's no longer president.  But if he is, despite the fact the very large headline on this article is "Conspiracy theorists alert!," it offers a mention of Trump at the bottom how it could happen.  Again though, if Trump has any business interests tied to the USOPC or to LA2028, tread carefully if he uses 2022 as some sort of forum to make a stand against China.  100% I could see him doing that without the foresight of how that would affect things down the line.

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Boycott or not, these are going to be very controversial games, and the Pandemic just magnified it. I would like to know how Japan will react in case the Tokyo 2020 games are definitely axed (and yes i know they recently said they want to keep doing them with or without the pandemic, but good luck having no spectators and athletes lol. They will backpedal from that decision very soon).

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6 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

Boycott or not, these are going to be very controversial games, and the Pandemic just magnified it. I would like to know how Japan will react in case the Tokyo 2020 games are definitely axed (and yes i know they recently said they want to keep doing them with or without the pandemic, but good luck having no spectators and athletes lol. They will backpedal from that decision very soon).

Probally withdraw from 2022 in protest.

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