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6 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

He last week called for Team Canada to withdraw from the games. So how do people think Canada will compete if it’s Prime Minster has said it’s not safe for the team to go to China. 

Trudeau never said this. O'Toole did. Last I checked Trudeau is the PM and he's not going anywhere. O'Toole calling for a boycott is no different than what Rick Scott said in Congress. It means nothing. Team Canada will be at the Olympics in full force. Trudeau will not call for a boycott just because of some outlandish politician in Nova Scotia.

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15 minutes ago, stryker said:

Trudeau never said this. O'Toole did. Last I checked Trudeau is the PM and he's not going anywhere. O'Toole calling for a boycott is no different than what Rick Scott said in Congress. It means nothing. Team Canada will be at the Olympics in full force. Trudeau will not call for a boycott just because of some outlandish politician in Nova Scotia.

Except there is an election in September and on current polls it’s basically 50/50 as to who will form the new Govenment.

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10 minutes ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Except there is an election in September and on current polls it’s basically 50/50 as to who will form the new Govenment.

Trudeau would not have called a snap election if he thought his party would lose control of Parliament. If anything, he's called it because the Liberals are only a few seats away from a majority. Right now, they have power due to a power sharing agreement. None of the polls are indicating the Liberals would suffer enough of a loss to lose power. Trudeau isn't going anywhere.

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52 minutes ago, stryker said:

Trudeau would not have called a snap election if he thought his party would lose control of Parliament. If anything, he's called it because the Liberals are only a few seats away from a majority. Right now, they have power due to a power sharing agreement. None of the polls are indicating the Liberals would suffer enough of a loss to lose power. Trudeau isn't going anywhere.

That was what Theresa May thought in 2017 and she ended up with a hung Parliament and her authority never recovererd. 

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15 minutes ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

That was what Theresa May thought in 2017 and she ended up with a hung Parliament and her authority never recovererd. 

a) she never had much authority right from the start thanks to the Brexitaliban

b) from a distance, Trudeau seems quite the smart guy unlike Theresa "walking through wheat fields" May
 

Anyway, this thread is about Beijing 2022, not Canadian politics. Sadly, even if whoever is Canadian PM by that time had the power to keep Canadian athletes away, the shitshow would still go ahead as neither Xi nor Bach would be the slightest impressed. For that, it would really take a united front of all winter superpowers (bar Russia, obviously), but I doubt that would ever happen.

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2 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

a) she never had much authority right from the start thanks to the Brexitaliban

b) from a distance, Trudeau seems quite the smart guy unlike Theresa "walking through wheat fields" May
 

Anyway, this thread is about Beijing 2022, not Canadian politics. Sadly, even if whoever is Canadian PM by that time had the power to keep Canadian athletes away, the shitshow would still go ahead as neither Xi nor Bach would be the slightest impressed. For that, it would really take a united front of all winter superpowers (bar Russia, obviously), but I doubt that would ever happen.

Not to mention a boycott by one or two countries can have repercussions in terms of hosting future sporting events. Case in point, the Soviet Union was an early favorite to host the 1990 World Cup which would be awarded to Italy. The host selection in 1984 coincided with Soviet decision to boycott the 1984 SOGs in Los Angeles. Joao Havelange has denied the boycott influenced FIFA but I think it's a peculiar coincidence. 

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On 8/18/2021 at 6:29 PM, StefanMUC said:

a) she never had much authority right from the start thanks to the Brexitaliban

b) from a distance, Trudeau seems quite the smart guy unlike Theresa "walking through wheat fields" May

Maybe, maybe not!

 

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On 8/18/2021 at 9:03 PM, stryker said:

Not to mention a boycott by one or two countries can have repercussions in terms of hosting future sporting events. Case in point, the Soviet Union was an early favorite to host the 1990 World Cup which would be awarded to Italy. The host selection in 1984 coincided with Soviet decision to boycott the 1984 SOGs in Los Angeles. Joao Havelange has denied the boycott influenced FIFA but I think it's a peculiar coincidence. 

I wonder if that was also because he feared that some western countries might boycott a soviet hosted world cup.

 

https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/270788872/chinese-british-fms-hold-phone-talks-over-afghanistan-bilateral-ties

 

The BOA will decide independently if to compete or not. 
 

 

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I'm not saying a lot of RWB's posts haven't been crazy wishful thinking, but this situation might be one to keep an eye on.

The Conservative leader has been outspoken on this and is leading the polls.

Caveats: I believe Canada uses the same stupid FPTP electoral system as us, so I have no idea if that lead would actually translate into a victory. And would O'Toole be as outspoken on this if he were PM? And more importantly, would he actually be willing to act on his words and take on China in this way?

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On 8/29/2021 at 2:14 AM, Rob. said:

I'm not saying a lot of RWB's posts haven't been crazy wishful thinking, but this situation might be one to keep an eye on.

The Conservative leader has been outspoken on this and is leading the polls.

Caveats: I believe Canada uses the same stupid FPTP electoral system as us, so I have no idea if that lead would actually translate into a victory. And would O'Toole be as outspoken on this if he were PM? And more importantly, would he actually be willing to act on his words and take on China in this way?

Yes, Canada does use FPTP like the US however the major difference is that the PM is the one whose party wins the most seats in Parliament.  If the US had a parliamentary system it would mean the Speaker of the House is the equivalent to Trudeau.  I'm not familiar enough with Canadian politics to know what a 6% point lead in the general polls translates to when it comes to winning enough individual MP races to take over as PM.

I suspect O'Toole would act on implementing a boycott if other leading G7 and Commonwealth nations joined alongside him.  Hard to say where the US administration will land on the subject in the end.  A "diplomatic boycott" is a joke.  I mean - what does that look like exactly?  Do we really think IOC Members who are also heads of state or members of their countries' royal families will skip the Olympics?  Please.  That's a non-starter and we all know it.  Beyond that, it is, to the world at large, a mostly invisible boycott.  We get a few camera shots of the various heads of state or their spouses, etc in the luxury boxes during the opening and closing ceremonies and, if Beijing winds up spectator-less like Tokyo did, that will be it.  This isn't going to be like 2018 with shots of the Dutch royal family in the stands madly cheering for their speed skaters, or even like this summer's Euro FC with the Danish, Belgian, and British royals in the stands at various matches as the tournament wore on.  But, the thing is, while those pics and camera shots are always fun, lively, and nice, they are not what provides the real drama and story of the Olympics.  Missing all those people didn't make Tokyo any less memorable or exciting for the general public watching from the comfort of their living room.  And do we really think that a "diplomatic boycott" means that we won't get all of those heads of state and royal families tweeting and IGing in support of their nation's athletes?  Hardly.  It just means they won't make the flight to Beijing and gladhand with the IOC or CCP.  From a face-saving perspective, a "diplomatic boycott" hardly hurts China.  It's an empty gesture, IMO.

And, knowing that it's an empty gesture leaves me torn because I love the Olympics but I hated Beijing when they were elected over Almaty and nothing that has transpired in the years since has improved my opinion of the Chinese government and how completely undeserving they are of hosting ANY Olympics, but not especially these ones coming up in a few months.  I wish the IOC had had the spine to move the Games a year ago and told the CCP to sod off.  As it is, I'll probably continue on my merry little way and disregard all of the obnoxious advertising from NBC's corporate sponsors while soaking up as much of the Olympics as I can live and take my planned PTO next winter to ensure that figure skating has my sole focus during the wee hours or whenever it winds up being scheduled to satisfy the whims of the major broadcasters (NBC is angling for the men's and ice dance free programs to be live in ET primetime, and it looks like Russia wants the women's free program live for their evening broadcast, and China plans on the pairs free program being live to their evening viewers so there's going to be a whole lot of annoying time-shifting going on and one out of whack sleep schedule for this diehard FS fan, lol).

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3 hours ago, Karenina said:

And, knowing that it's an empty gesture leaves me torn because I love the Olympics but I hated Beijing when they were elected over Almaty and nothing that has transpired in the years since has improved my opinion of the Chinese government and how completely undeserving they are of hosting ANY Olympics, but not especially these ones coming up in a few months.  I wish the IOC had had the spine to move the Games a year ago and told the CCP to sod off.  As it is, I'll probably continue on my merry little way and disregard all of the obnoxious advertising from NBC's corporate sponsors while soaking up as much of the Olympics as I can live and take my planned PTO next winter to ensure that figure skating has my sole focus during the wee hours or whenever it winds up being scheduled to satisfy the whims of the major broadcasters (NBC is angling for the men's and ice dance free programs to be live in ET primetime, and it looks like Russia wants the women's free program live for their evening broadcast, and China plans on the pairs free program being live to their evening viewers so there's going to be a whole lot of annoying time-shifting going on and one out of whack sleep schedule for this diehard FS fan, lol).

From what I've read, the figure skating schedule is a compromise.  Half the sessions in the morning for American television.  The other half in the evening to be better for European television.  Yes, it'll be tough for figure skating fans to manage, particularly that middle weekend.  Blame NBC for that one since they got the ice dancing moved so it can be the lead-out program for the Super Bowl.

There was never the slightest chance the IOC would change their mind about holding the Olympics in China, similar to how FIFA could never backtrack on Qatar.  But if we learned anything from Tokyo, it's that in the lead up to the Winter Olympics, there will be no shortage of media outrage about all the things that might go wrong.  But once the Games themselves start, it will very much be all about the athletes and the competition.  It's going to be a rough road to get there.  All you can do is tune it all out until the good stuff starts.  It's an almost impossible task NBC will have in order to separate the politics from the sports and it's all but a given that both sides will be unhappy because it'll either be too much politics and not enough sports.  Or too much sports and not enough politics.

Sure, a diplomatic boycott is a largely empty gesture, but so what.  COVID almost helps that cause a little as it gives whoever doesn't want to be there a built-in excuse not to do.  In which case, Chinese companies will miss out on a chance to hobnob with the rest of the world.  I'd take that as a small victory.  What I don't want to have happen is for people to start screaming how anyone watching the Olympics is in support of China or how NBC is a partner to genocide.  We'll hear a lot of that in the next 5 months.  In the sense that these may be a somewhat soulless games (Tokyo could have wound up that way, but thankfully they didn't), there's a part of me that just wants to get it over with and move on to the next Olympics.  I fully expect though that for 18 days in February, all the histrionics of this absurdly long thread will be a distant memory and we can still celebrate the spirit of the Olympics, even if the backdrop is one we will likely do our best to ignore.

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5 hours ago, Karenina said:

Yes, Canada does use FPTP like the US however the major difference is that the PM is the one whose party wins the most seats in Parliament.  If the US had a parliamentary system it would mean the Speaker of the House is the equivalent to Trudeau.  I'm not familiar enough with Canadian politics to know what a 6% point lead in the general polls translates to when it comes to winning enough individual MP races to take over as PM.

I said us, not the US. i.e. the UK. I think Canada's system is very similar to ours.

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20 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

From what I've read, the figure skating schedule is a compromise.  Half the sessions in the morning for American television.  The other half in the evening to be better for European television.  Yes, it'll be tough for figure skating fans to manage, particularly that middle weekend.  Blame NBC for that one since they got the ice dancing moved so it can be the lead-out program for the Super Bowl.

There was never the slightest chance the IOC would change their mind about holding the Olympics in China, similar to how FIFA could never backtrack on Qatar.  But if we learned anything from Tokyo, it's that in the lead up to the Winter Olympics, there will be no shortage of media outrage about all the things that might go wrong.  But once the Games themselves start, it will very much be all about the athletes and the competition.  It's going to be a rough road to get there.  All you can do is tune it all out until the good stuff starts.  It's an almost impossible task NBC will have in order to separate the politics from the sports and it's all but a given that both sides will be unhappy because it'll either be too much politics and not enough sports.  Or too much sports and not enough politics.

Sure, a diplomatic boycott is a largely empty gesture, but so what.  COVID almost helps that cause a little as it gives whoever doesn't want to be there a built-in excuse not to do.  In which case, Chinese companies will miss out on a chance to hobnob with the rest of the world.  I'd take that as a small victory.  What I don't want to have happen is for people to start screaming how anyone watching the Olympics is in support of China or how NBC is a partner to genocide.  We'll hear a lot of that in the next 5 months.  In the sense that these may be a somewhat soulless games (Tokyo could have wound up that way, but thankfully they didn't), there's a part of me that just wants to get it over with and move on to the next Olympics.  I fully expect though that for 18 days in February, all the histrionics of this absurdly long thread will be a distant memory and we can still celebrate the spirit of the Olympics, even if the backdrop is one we will likely do our best to ignore.

The figure skating schedule is a compromise in so many ways.  Not only is there the time shifting to put the men's and ice dance events in North American primetime since those are the disciplines the US has the best gold medal hopes (and Canada's only realistic medal hope is in dance, for that matter) in while women's and pairs are timed to European primetime but BOCOG has also changed the traditional order of events - usually it's been Team, Pairs, Men, Ice Dance, Women but this time it's Team, Men, Ice Dance, Women, Pairs because China is hoping to finish on the high note of a Pairs gold (provided that Sui/Han are healthy and can withstand the immense pressure they'll be under to deliver the gold that eluded them in Pyeongchang).  And now, since Beijing has been allowed to mess with the traditional order of events, I'd bet hard cash that Milan will also change the order of events so that the discipline where they have the best medal hope is also last.  

I don't know that there will be outrage over all the possible things that could go wrong - not coming so soon in the wake of a successful Summer Olympics where things went right for the most part.  What I do expect is that we will see a far greater outcry and criticism over the Chinese government's growing human rights atrocities among other things - Hong Kong, Taiwan, the South China Sea basin territorial disputes with all of their neighbors, and the list could go on for days.  I'm sure NBC will do its level best to avoid all of that - and it makes me long for the Bob Costas to come back as anchor if only because he would insist on at least one hard-hitting editorial segment and that is something that should be discussed.  

I think Covid hurts the idea of a diplomatic boycott.  Leaders and countries can just say "oh, we can't come because of your Covid restrictions" and sidestep the entire issue of whether or not they support Canada or any other countries that do publicly announce that they will engage in a diplomatic boycott.  I do suppose that it is some small victory if all those Chinese multinationals aren't given an opportunity to hobnob with the global elite - but it's not really enough. 

And your last sentence sums up exactly WHY there is ZERO chance these Olympics will be postponed by one year.  The IOC, at this point, has got to want to put the past several years of criticism into its rearview mirror and move full-speed ahead.  The sooner they can take the focus off of the terrible choices that led them to selecting Beijing as host for these Winter Games and the fact that they're a glad, willing partner with a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship that is not above genocide, the better.  Eighteen days of Olympic glory in six months and then the world moves on toward Paris and Milan and they can figure out who will host the 2030 and 2034 Winter editions.

18 hours ago, Rob. said:

I said us, not the US. i.e. the UK. I think Canada's system is very similar to ours.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were based in the UK.  :D  Yes, Canada's system is very similar to yours.  

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23 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

It does feel like a lot of athletes are in denial as to how likely it is some governments will ban them from going. 

Well, The National Hockey League players are going to Beijing.  Canada is NOT a dictatorship.

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