Moved 2022 before its to late.

[Quaker2001]

13 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

A lot of politicians are very concerned by the Uyghurs and Hong Kong so not hard for them to publicly pushing for boycotts. I can comfortably say many more than 1% will have a view as it gets nearer and further up the agenda.

There's a pretty massive jump from "have a view" to "publicly pushing for boycotts."  Don't make the assumption that those handful of politicians with a negative view of China will choose to use their political capital to outspokenly try to persuade the IOC to boycott.  Let alone that they'll be listened to by the authorities that actually matter and can influence the actual decision rather than just make noise about it

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

4 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

There's a pretty massive jump from "have a view" to "publicly pushing for boycotts."  Don't make the assumption that those handful of politicians with a negative view of China will choose to use their political capital to outspokenly try to persuade the IOC to boycott.  Let alone that they'll be listened to by the authorities that actually matter and can influence the actual decision rather than just make noise about it

Handful? Must be very big hands.

[Rob2012]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:24 PM, StefanMUC said:

The latest headache for the IOC will be Iran, after the wrestler got executed today.

I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger talking point. They can't explain this away as being a big political issue that's above their paygrade, as they will with Hong Kong or the Uyghers. The Iranians have targetted a man whose profile is such because he's an Olympian, tortured and murdered him.

Iran needs to be chucked out for this, the IOC can't ignore this one.

[Quaker2001]

5 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Handful? Must be very big hands.

Again, it is a major jump to take for a politician to express their views on China and to actively campaign against them.  The former is easy.  The latter is not.

[StefanMUC]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:59 PM, Rob. said:

I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger talking point. They can't explain this away as being a big political issue that's above their paygrade, as they will with Hong Kong or the Uyghers. The Iranians have targetted a man whose profile is such because he's an Olympian, tortured and murdered him.

Iran needs to be chucked out for this, the IOC can't ignore this one.

The IOC apparently says that it was unrelated to a sports event and Iran‘s NOC had asked not to execute him. That absolves them apparently as the IOC „does not want to punish athletes for coming from a certain political system“.

Absolutely ridiculous as they had rightfully suspended South Africa for Apartheid and let Russians start as neutral athletes only. But if anyone hoped they would take issue with China‘s Uyghur or HK policies, that illusion is really gone. Iran is far less important for the IOC and yet they do not want to take even the faintest action.

Thomas Bach - the man with no backbone.

[Karenina]

I don't post here often but I've skimmed through this thread and just have to say...  All of you Anti-Trumpers are idiots and really don't understand him at all if you think, for one hot second, that he's going to go down the "boycott the Beijing 2022 Olympics" road during a second term.  His whole mantra is MAGA.  It's about America WINNING.  He's going to want our athletes going into Beijing and kicking some Chinese ass and beating them in the medal count.  Furthermore, while 2028 is after he is out of office, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will absolutely be present and ready during the Paris 2024 Closing Ceremonies to accept the handoff of the Olympic Flag on behalf of the USA.  He's not going to piss on the IOC.  They're not the UN or NATO.  He's all about the show and the extravagance and won't pass up an opportunity to rub shoulders with the various royals and jet-setters who run the IOC.  

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

7 hours ago, Karenina said:

I don't post here often but I've skimmed through this thread and just have to say...  All of you Anti-Trumpers are idiots and really don't understand him at all if you think, for one hot second, that he's going to go down the "boycott the Beijing 2022 Olympics" road during a second term.  His whole mantra is MAGA.  It's about America WINNING.  He's going to want our athletes going into Beijing and kicking some Chinese ass and beating them in the medal count.  Furthermore, while 2028 is after he is out of office, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will absolutely be present and ready during the Paris 2024 Closing Ceremonies to accept the handoff of the Olympic Flag on behalf of the USA.  He's not going to piss on the IOC.  They're not the UN or NATO.  He's all about the show and the extravagance and won't pass up an opportunity to rub shoulders with the various royals and jet-setters who run the IOC.  

The Main USA advocates for a boycott atm are Trump supporters through.

[Quaker2001]

7 hours ago, Karenina said:

I don't post here often but I've skimmed through this thread and just have to say...  All of you Anti-Trumpers are idiots and really don't understand him at all if you think, for one hot second, that he's going to go down the "boycott the Beijing 2022 Olympics" road during a second term.  His whole mantra is MAGA.  It's about America WINNING.  He's going to want our athletes going into Beijing and kicking some Chinese ass and beating them in the medal count.  Furthermore, while 2028 is after he is out of office, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will absolutely be present and ready during the Paris 2024 Closing Ceremonies to accept the handoff of the Olympic Flag on behalf of the USA.  He's not going to piss on the IOC.  They're not the UN or NATO.  He's all about the show and the extravagance and won't pass up an opportunity to rub shoulders with the various royals and jet-setters who run the IOC.  

This isn't 1936 where we're hoping Jesse Owens will stick it to Hitler and the Nazis and ruin his vision of Aryan supremacy.  No athlete or team at the Olympics could resonate in that manner or what the 1980 U.S. hockey team did.  

Also.. Trump wouldn't accept the hand-off.  That honor belongs to the mayor of LA to do that.  Trump might want to be in France so he can get some attention, but that doesn't mean he'll play a part in that ceremony, especially since he won't be in office come 2028.

Sure, Trump is all about showmanship, but Trump is also about Trump.  So how's that going to look if he's very publicly calling out China and their leadership and then warms up to them in Beijing with the eyes of the world on him?  That would send some interesting mixed political messages if one day he's starting some sort of trade war with China and the next he's travelling there because he's butthurt they're getting too much attention.

I have no idea what Trump will do with regard to the Olympics when they're held in China.  He's unpredictable in that regard.  The only thing you can count on is that he'll do whatever is in his best political interests.  If that means showing up there in February of 2022 because he wants the photo op, could totally see that happening.  But I wouldn't put it past him to use the Olympics as a political to drum up anti-Chinese sentiment and see who gets on board with him.  There are politicians already pushing to boycott 2022 because of China's human rights record, so Trump would certainly have some support if he want that route.

You think Trump wouldn't piss on the IOC if he thought it would help his cause?  He'd do it in a heartbeat if he thought there was something to gain from it.  Again though, hopefully there's someone in his ear if he does that, less he torpedoes some of the business interests of the LA 2028 games.

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

Remember Fair chance of trump winning the nobel peace prize for the Abraham Accords.

[StefanMUC]

1 hour ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Remember Fair chance of trump winning the nobel peace prize for the Abraham Accords.

Who is he up against? Michael Cohen for the Stormy Daniels Treaty? Yeah right....are people really so dumb in the Trump cult?

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

I think it's quite likely Trump will commit to a boycott before election day.

[Quaker2001]

2 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

I think it's quite likely Trump will commit to a boycott before election day.

And now you're just trolling.  There's zero chance of that happening and you know it.  On what planet could you possibly think that Trump will spend more than 4 seconds thinking and the 2022 Olympics before Election Day?

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

Just now, Quaker2001 said:

And now you're just trolling.  There's zero chance of that happening and you know it.  On what planet could you possibly think that Trump will spend more than 4 seconds thinking and the 2022 Olympics before Election Day?

China is the main theme of his campaign - it could easily be mentioned.

[Quaker2001]

5 minutes ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

China is the main theme of his campaign - it could easily be mentioned.

I love these Grand Canyon-sized disconnects with you.  "It could easily be mentioned" is miles and miles away from "I think it's quite likely Trump will commit to a boycott before election day."

Again, I agree that it's far from the realm of impossible that Trump could get it in his head to offer a giant "**** you" to China and making a stand to not send athletes there.  But you are outside of your mind if you think that has any chance of gaining traction in the 6 1/2 weeks we have until election day

[StefanMUC]

1 hour ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

China is the main theme of his campaign - it could easily be mentioned.

Not since last night anymore. The next six weeks will surely all be about the Supreme Court, and nobody will care about China for a while.

 

[Nacre]

On 9/15/2020 at 10:35 AM, StefanMUC said:

Absolutely ridiculous as they had rightfully suspended South Africa for Apartheid and let Russians start as neutral athletes only.

South African social segregation also affected black athletes and fans. Similarly Russia has been punished for state-sponsored doping, and not its anti-gay legislation or sending weapons and "little green men" into Ukraine.

The problem with punishing countries for human rights violations and political malfeasance is that every country violates human rights to some degree or other. Capital punishment is legal in the USA and the country has its own problems with mass imprisonment and racism. So should the USOC be banned from the Olympics? Should Japan be banned from the Olympics for its refusal to accept multiculturalism and its harsh immigration rules? Should India be banned for its Hindu nationalist policies and occupation of Srinigar? Who decides which human rights violations are worthy of banning and which are not?

There is no way to sustain a functioning "Olympic Movement" in which countries are banned for political reasons. In a sane and sober world it would be the United Nations which punished political misconduct, not NGO's. Unfortunately we do not live in a sane and sober world.

[StefanMUC]

20 minutes ago, Nacre said:

South African social segregation also affected black athletes and fans. Similarly Russia has been punished for state-sponsored doping, and not its anti-gay legislation or sending weapons and "little green men" into Ukraine.

The problem with punishing countries for human rights violations and political malfeasance is that every country violates human rights to some degree or other. Capital punishment is legal in the USA and the country has its own problems with mass imprisonment and racism. So should the USOC be banned from the Olympics? Should Japan be banned from the Olympics for its refusal to accept multiculturalism and its harsh immigration rules? Should India be banned for its Hindu nationalist policies and occupation of Srinigar? Who decides which human rights violations are worthy of banning and which are not?

There is no way to sustain a functioning "Olympic Movement" in which countries are banned for political reasons. In a sane and sober world it would be the United Nations which punished political misconduct, not NGO's. Unfortunately we do not live in a sane and sober world.

While I agree in principle, it‘s the IOC position that angers me most. They throw their arms in the air declaring they can‘t do anything, while in the past they did take action when they saw fit. And Iran already gave them concrete reason for a ban before the execution when their athletes boycotted (had to boycot) Israeli opponents. That was very much within IOC area of influence and yet nothing happened.

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/global-push-to-strip-beijing-of-winter-olympics-20200920-p55xen.html

Boycot movement growing.

Led by Ian Duncan Smith who is a former leader of the opposition here in the UK and influential.

Meanwhile leader of the Norwegian libreal party is opposed to a boycott.

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/asia/china-dismisses-concerns-over-human-rights-abuses-tarnishing-winter-olympics-20200923-p55yei.html?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed

https://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/6937705/tasmanian-senator-urges-boycott-of-winter-olympics-in-china/

 

Further developments have occurred.

 

[Quaker2001]

1 hour ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/asia/china-dismisses-concerns-over-human-rights-abuses-tarnishing-winter-olympics-20200923-p55yei.html?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed

https://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/6937705/tasmanian-senator-urges-boycott-of-winter-olympics-in-china/

 

Further developments have occurred.

 

Wow, what a huge development.  That's a real game changer that a Tasmanian liberal senator is asking Australia to "seriously consider" a boycott of the Winter Olympics.

With all due respect to Australia, which has been increasing its medal count at recent Olympics, this is just more politicking and is hardly a serious movement.  Yet again, it needs to be said.. it's a big leap from talking about boycotting and actually boycotting.

[Ikarus360]

The fact China has been punishing Australia in the last months due to the later getting tired of their growing aggressive diplomacy by suspending imports from Australian products and forbidding their tourists to visit Australia (which in turn has been causing economic damage to the country) has only added more fuel to the fire. While I admire Australia for taking a stand against their ever growing influence in Oceania, its sad that still many countries prefer to remain silent and haven't grown a pair yet to make actual changing choices. The american politicians, for example, talk too much about helping Taiwan but no one of them is bold to put forward plans to recognize them and end the lie that is the One China Policy which screws up a land which, after more than half a century of self rule and a population which knows less about the Mainland, has earned its right to be considered a nation. 

People are naive if they expect capitalistic, greedy corporations such as the IOC, Apple, Samsung, Sony, etc, to do something about China human rights record. At the end of the day they just care for money. Its the only reason they live for and its tiresome that they keep playing the "Don't politicize it" card whenever they are cornered. Beijing 2022 became politicized the day they got elected in 2015 to host the edition. Too late for that. 

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

22 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Wow, what a huge development.  That's a real game changer that a Tasmanian liberal senator is asking Australia to "seriously consider" a boycott of the Winter Olympics.

With all due respect to Australia, which has been increasing its medal count at recent Olympics, this is just more politicking and is hardly a serious movement.  Yet again, it needs to be said.. it's a big leap from talking about boycotting and actually boycotting.

Not as big a leap as a lot of people think.

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

Through as it stands most athletes and NOC officials are anti boycott.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/hobart/programs/mornings/matt-carroll-olympics-2022/12697876

[REDWHITEBLUE24]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-09-25/should-america-boycott-china-s-2022-winter-olympics

Could we see a rival games if a large boycott happens. Feels very unlikely.

[Quaker2001]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:10 AM, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Not as big a leap as a lot of people think.

No.. a pretty big leap.  Because as you illustrated...

On 9/24/2020 at 11:13 AM, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

Through as it stands most athletes and NOC officials are anti boycott.

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/hobart/programs/mornings/matt-carroll-olympics-2022/12697876

Is that really a surprise to you that athletes and NOCs want no part of a boycott?  I'm sure if they had their choice, they'd like to go somewhere other than China.  But how many want to wait another 4 years for the next Olympics?  As history tells us, the state of the world didn't really improve because Western nations largely stayed away from Moscow.  In the end, it was only the athletes that got hurt.

Calls for boycotts are coming from politicians who are looking to make a name for themselves.  They care about the cause more than the people they'll affect because they can be seen as having tried to strong-arm China.  In the end, nothing is going to change, and it's just the athletes that suffer.