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We’ve tried Germany 36 already, no wonder even the DOSB would like to avoid this.

Which is part of their anger about the premature 2032 decision: they know 36 is up for Europe, but a Hitler centennenial is really not sth they like (or even the slightest assumption that way). And if 36 goes elsewhere in Europe, we will probably look at 48 for the next opportunity. Catch 22.

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Then again, DOSB have not have acted accordingly in the slightest way. 

You can't expect the IOC to just roll out the red carpet for you if you reject any form of dialogue in the first place, which, apparently has happened.

So, a Munich centred winter games (no earlier than 2034, though) does seem to be the only viable option now. Then again, Beijing will not help in any way to turn around public opinion. The 2022 EC and Milano Cortina 2026 might be more helpful, but having a bid referendum even eight years in advance seems like a major risk at a time when the IOC give out the price over a decade in advance, if someone gives them a reasonable option to do so.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, munichfan said:

Then again, DOSB have not have acted accordingly in the slightest way. 

You can't expect the IOC to just roll out the red carpet for you if you reject any form of dialogue in the first place, which, apparently has happened.

 

 

Yes, as I said before, they're all fools, in DOSB and NRW.  That's why also another Winter bid would be totally doomed. In theory, they could go for 2030 even if right after Milan-Cortina and facing SLC, Sapporo or Vancouver, but 2034 would be more realistic timewise and still as long as the DOSB is such a bunch of amateurs and the IOC is (rightfully) having this super bad image in the German public, that'll be another lost battle.

There's really no local opposition to the Euro Champs 2022 at all, so it's not anti-sports mood in the city, just an anti-IOC one. I also expect that if the Gay Games 2026 bid is successful, that will also not face any criticism. But as soon as the DOSB and IOC get into the boat, it'll turn into the Titanic.

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Is this strength of anti IOC feeling in Germany really a deep national hatred of Bach personally, or does it go back to the Sochi decision? Were there bad budget overruns in the Munich games? I know there's a lot of anti IOC feeling in Europe in general, because of corruption perceptions etc but it seems particularly strong in Germany, despite how the country seems ok with just about every other sporting body, even FIFA. 

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Meant to include this as a question but I can't edit my post - is the IOC perceived as being biased against Germany? Maybe going back even to turning down Berlin for 2000, but particularly the turning down of Munich 2018?

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Now...where to start. Maybe with the FIFA thing: What was sold as "summer fairytale" akak FIFA WC 2006 turned out to be the product of corruption with heavy involvement by super icon Beckenbauer. In hindsight, this would not have sailed through so easily, but football is stil by far the no.1 sport with the biggest lobby, so there'll always be significant enough public support.

As for the IOC: The Berlin 2000 bid was already ridiculed a lot at home if I remember well, because it had this air of entitlement after the reunification and totaly clueless about the geopolitics Beijing and Sydney played, apart from its own inherit weaknesses. Then came the Leipzig bid which was even more ridiculous and came about in a very dubious way. And as a cherry on the top, the Munich 2018 bid which suffered from the argument that it would be twice in a row in Europe after Sochi and that of course it would be necessary to finally award PC. That rejection did hurt a lot. When the 2022 bid was rolled out, including some improvements on the 2018 bid, it was certainly technically really good and I really think if it had survived the referendum, the IOC would have chosen it also over Oslo. But the referendum failed: Thomas Bach, while not exactly "hated" personally, has ever since these failed bids been seen as a dubious figure, also because of business connections and an air of arrogance that is not well liked. There was also no national pride when he became IOC boss. So, the referendum shortly after his election also rode on that, but it was already known in autumn 2013 that Sochi would be hugely expensive and environmentally destructive. Pro-Olympics arguments that in Germany far less investment and environmental damage would be necessary could not get through. On top of that, there was a lot of discussion about the host city contracts with the IOC - also in part result of the WC 2006 where there was quite some upset about FIFA regulations on local breweries etc. Probably the most crucial failure the local politicians made was not to hold the referendum alongside the Federal or Bavarian elections in September 2013 - the referendum was the 3rd poll in 3 months and had less turnout. The opponents were more vocal and turned up, the supporters didn't expect failure because all major parties were for it. If the referendum had been held with either of the elections, the result might have been different, but that's of course a lot of speculation and hindsight.

But the cherry on the top has always been the complete communication disaster - over several decades and changing people involved - by the NOC/later DOSB. They are completel unable to build a clear case other than empty slogans and cute little models and studies that complete leave out the global view.

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Add to that a media landscape which seems to have limited understanding of the goings at the IOC. Usually, articles after another loss read "well, it should have been clear before that there was no chance to win against these lavish, expensive bids by the dictatorships. But it's actually good we lost, so we don't have to burn [add either a Sochi or a Beijing budget here] on that stuff". Rather than acknowledging these bids had mainly been destroyed internally. And yes, they do bring the dictatorship argument every single time. Even this time I've read several articles by leading journals stating that "there's absolutely no sense to bid for 2036, anyway" because "an Olympics on the Gulf are already a done deal and they will without a doubt head for Doha in 2036, maybe even 2032. Because the evil IOC only likes dictatorships."

I agree with StefanMUC on the referendum issue - these things usually don't receive too high a turnout when not coupled with main elections. Needless to say, most folks know better things to do on a sunday morning then care about some sports event a decade out. As far as I remember both Hamburg and Munich turned out around 50/50, but had no more than 50% turnout. It is always easier for the naysayers and the NIMBYs to bring the people on the street.

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5 minutes ago, munichfan said:

Add to that a media landscape which seems to have limited understanding of the goings at the IOC. Usually, articles after another loss read "well, it should have been clear before that there was no chance to win against these lavish, expensive bids by the dictatorships. But it's actually good we lost, so we don't have to burn [add either a Sochi or a Beijing budget here] on that stuff". Rather than acknowledging these bids had mainly been destroyed internally. And yes, they do bring the dictatorship argument every single time. Even this time I've read several articles by leading journals stating that "there's absolutely no sense to bid for 2036, anyway" because "an Olympics on the Gulf are already a done deal and they will without a doubt head for Doha in 2036, maybe even 2032. Because the evil IOC only likes dictatorships."

I agree with StefanMUC on the referendum issue - these things usually don't receive too high a turnout when not coupled with main elections. Needless to say, most folks know better things to do on a sunday morning then care about some sports event a decade out. As far as I remember both Hamburg and Munich turned out around 50/50, but had no more than 50% turnout. It is always easier for the naysayers and the NIMBYs to bring the people on the street.

My go to source for good reporting is Jens Weinreich - he's equally critical of the IOC and the DOSB, not shying away from exposing all the weaknesses which others gladly overlook for "patriotic" reasons.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

The New Norm Olympic Bidding Rules changed 3 years ago and were announced to the world.

The biggest bidding changes in the history of the Olympic movement.

Rhine-Ruhr, India, Hungary and Qatar, were you listening?

All four of you have been asleep for 3 years, while Brisbane has been heading to the finish line. 

The world’s media has been reporting on Brisbane’s steady progress this whole time.

Don’t complain now because you’re so far behind, seriously.

Don’t blame the IOC, the new rules, John Coates, or the tooth fairy or your Mum. 

Just read the damn rules and do better next time.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

IOC critical of DOSB for "incorrect statements" over 2032 Olympic bid process

Credit: Inside The Games

By Michael Pavitt

 Friday, 2 April 2021

 

Future Host Commission chair Kristin Kloster Aasen has reportedly accused the German Olympic and Sports Confederation (DOSB) of making "incorrect public statements" after the organisation criticised the transparency of the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic bid process.

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) announced in February that it would open exclusive negotiations with Australian officials as part of a targeted dialogue phase, with Brisbane approved as their preferred bidder for the Games.

This followed the IOC Executive Board's decision to approve a recommendation from the Future Host Summer Commission.

Kloster Aasen had said that the DOSB had opted against entering into the continuous dialogue phase with the Future Host Commission group in February.

The outcome prompted criticism of several parties.

DOSB President Alfons Hörmann reportedly expressed surprise at the early announcement, with the official himself coming under fire from North Rhine-Westphalia Prime Minister Armin Laschet, who has supported the privately funded Rhine-Ruhr bid.

Laschet claimed it was amazing that the DOSB had "no sense of what is going on at the IOC."

The ARD doping editorial team had reported that Kloster Aasen had sent a letter to the DOSB, following the organisation’s public statements.

"In view of the increasing number of incorrect public statements, I feel compelled to write to you today," Kloster Aasen reportedly wrote, according to ARD.

"On the one hand to express my surprise and disappointment and on the other hand to ask for a correction in view of our very clear and unambiguous discussions."

The Norwegian official reportedly claimed the DOSB had been made aware of theoretical changes to the award procedure on November 1.

It is claimed that the DOSB had opted to wait for official support for the Rhine-Ruhr bid, including the outcome of a public survey.

The letter claims that the DOSB were given updates in two video conferences in January, while Hörmann reportedly spoke to Bach about the bid process in February last year.

The DOSB has reportedly declined to comment on Kloster Aasen's letter.

Brisbane is expected to be the first city to be awarded a Summer Olympic Games under the IOC's new process for selecting the host of its flagship event.

In 2019 the IOC established Future Host Commissions, which identify and recommend venues for the Games and enter into dialogue with prospective countries and cities over staging them.

This has led to the previous approach of pitting competing cities against one another to host the Olympics for a given year, and then announcing the winner seven years in advance, being abandoned.

Bach has claimed that bidding races create "too many losers" which then do not bid again.

The Brisbane City Council voted in favour of the 2032 Summer Olympic and Paralympic bid on March 24 and despite officials claiming it is not a "done deal", the Games could be officially awarded at the IOC Session in Tokyo on July 20 and 21.

The advancement of Brisbane to exclusive negotiations has not deterred potential bidders.

Seoul's Metropolitan Government described the IOC decision as a "surprise move", as the South Korean city announced a joint bid with Pyongyang in North Korea yesterday.

Officials in Budapest, Germany and Qatar have all indicated they will continue their plans to bid for the 2032 event over recent weeks.

 

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^That reminds me of this:

IOC ATTACKS OSLO FOR DROPPING OLYMPIC BID

https://planetski.eu/2014/10/02/ioc-attacks-oslo-for-dropping-olympic-bid/

IOC hits out as Norway withdraws Winter Olympic bid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d8938ffc-4a04-11e4-8de3-00144feab7de

Seems like a pattern there, no? And the irony of it all, as that the latest criticism to a NOC (because they’re calling out the IOC) is coming from the Norwegian IOC member!  The IOC should really look into soap-opera scripting lol.

 

 

 

 

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On 4/9/2021 at 6:58 PM, FYI said:

^That reminds me of this:

IOC ATTACKS OSLO FOR DROPPING OLYMPIC BID

https://planetski.eu/2014/10/02/ioc-attacks-oslo-for-dropping-olympic-bid/

IOC hits out as Norway withdraws Winter Olympic bid

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d8938ffc-4a04-11e4-8de3-00144feab7de

Seems like a pattern there, no? And the irony of it all, as that the latest criticism to a NOC (because they’re calling out the IOC) is coming from the Norwegian IOC member!  The IOC should really look into soap-opera scripting lol.

The same comparison crossed my mind when I first read about the dustup between the IOC and the DOSB. When the IOC is struggling to attract quality bids that won't break the bank, this kind of PR doesn't help. After the IOC burned Oslo publicly, I speculated that it would be decades before the Norwegians gave it another shot. Not sure I'd go as far to say the same with Germany, but I'd clearly rule out 2036 and even 2040, or at least until Coates and Bach are gone. Those two are part of the reason the IOC is in the mess it's in.

 

 

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
50 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

German Olympic Bid Embraces Flexibility

 

 

as they should. It gives them time to refine and work the bid. The thing that worked in Brisbane's favour - the advanced state of the bid could work for Rhine-Ruhr

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The DOSB is currently facing huge accusations against its President and his inner circle about a climate of fear they created internally. 
 

A little distraction with another bid discussion cannot harm there.

German sports officials are at an all-time low. Basically the entire top ranks of DFB (football) have imploded this week as well.

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