2030 Olympic Winter Games Bids

[Nacre]

On 3/6/2020 at 3:07 AM, stryker said:

Interesting you mentioned Bakke Hill Ski Jump. I had a student about a year ago create a mock Seattle WOGs bid for a class project and one of his proposals was to rebuild Bakke Hill. His plan also included the sliding track at Whistler and a speed skating oval that would become a community ice skating rink.

The problem for Seattle is transportation more than venues. Raising taxes to cut down parts of a national forest to expand the highway to Crystal Mountain is politically radioactive in left-libertarian Washington State. 

Seattle/Washington State is a good example of a place that is better suited to host individual sports championships than the Olympics. 

On 3/6/2020 at 3:07 AM, stryker said:

Turning a speed skating oval into a public ice skating venue worked for Vancouver and I agree it's not a an exorbitant amount of taxpayer money to spend but I'd argue Vancouver is a winter sports city, way more than Milan. I could see Milan trying the same thing but how much use would it actually get? 

Potentially a lot. Milan hosts a lot of major annual events like its fashion week (one of the big four along with Paris, New York and London) and l'Artigiano in Fiera which is supposedly the largest annual artisan exhibition in the world. A new exhibition space should get a fair amount of use in one of the fashion and arts capitals of the world.

But I think an ice skating venue would likely be able to survive in Milan as a permanent ice rink with modest government subsidy. Keep in mind that Milan is a larger city than Athens or Amsterdam.

[Zhou Jiaming]

Pyrenees - Barcelona Spain 2030

[Shadowriver]

On 6/25/2019 at 5:58 AM, Roger87 said:

I would say in inverse order and let's see if Norway wants to do it now (Or even Poland  )

After Kraków 2024 debacle and current spicy political situation (which shifted drastically from back then) i would not expect any Olympic bid from Poland anytime soon. Government won't risk giving free fuel for current opposition which would use that in instance, they already attack any big investments made by current government. Also on this note European Games bid news gone without much noise for people to even notice, Olympics are way different beast.

[Booville]

How about Vancouver 2030?

Unlike Calgary, there appears to be a little more support in BC, with maybe 60% in favour of making a bid - 2010 did make money despite what people think with the ex-VANOC CEO pushing the idea ... and a new Olympic village could assist in dealing with the No1 issue of housing affordability and homelessness.

BC Place has been modernised into a world class venue since 2010 and a number of the venues such as GM Place (Ice Hockey1), the Pacific Coliseum (Figure Skating) and the Thunderbird Sports Centre (Hockey2) could be easily used again. Whilst the use of the Hillcrest Cenre and the Richmond Skating Oval would be far more problematic due to the success of their post 2010 legacy, a new speeding skating type venue in Surrey and a curling arena in Newton would create a future 'legacy; - this would spread out the venues a little more than in 2010 but in the scale of some bids this would be minimal in terms of distances. Of course, all outdoor events would be held in Whistler.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-2030-olympics-bid-plan-legacies-ideas

It will only be 20years since the previous Vancouver games but St Moritz held in 1928/1948

 

 

 

 

[Quaker2001]

11 minutes ago, Booville said:

How about Vancouver 2030?

Unlike Calgary, there appears to be a little more support in BC, with maybe 60% in favour of making a bid - 2010 did make money despite what people think with the ex-VANOC CEO pushing the idea ... and a new Olympic village could assist in dealing with the No1 issue of housing affordability and homelessness.

BC Place has been modernised into a world class venue since 2010 and a number of the venues such as GM Place (Ice Hockey1), the Pacific Coliseum (Figure Skating) and the Thunderbird Sports Centre (Hockey2) could be easily used again. Whilst the use of the Hillcrest Cenre and the Richmond Skating Oval would be far more problematic due to the success of their post 2010 legacy, a new speeding skating type venue in Surrey and a curling arena in Newton would create a future 'legacy; - this would spread out the venues a little more than in 2010 but in the scale of some bids this would be minimal in terms of distances. Of course, all outdoor events would be held in Whistler.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-2030-olympics-bid-plan-legacies-ideas

It will only be 20years since the previous Vancouver games but St Moritz held in 1928/1948

Canada is still probably licking their wounds from how the Calgary 2026 bid fell apart.  Not a smart idea going up against Salt Lake and a United State bid.  Somewhere down the line, Vancouver will probably be a good bet for another Olympics in Canada.  But not 2030.  And using St. Mortiz 1948 isn't a great example.  That was the first post-WW2 Olympics and it was awarded to Switzerland on the basis of them being a neutral country through the war.

[Booville]

13 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

Canada is still probably licking their wounds from how the Calgary 2026 bid fell apart.  Not a smart idea going up against Salt Lake and a United State bid.  Somewhere down the line, Vancouver will probably be a good bet for another Olympics in Canada.  But not 2030.  And using St. Mortiz 1948 isn't a great example.  That was the first post-WW2 Olympics and it was awarded to Switzerland on the basis of them being a neutral country through the war.

A United States bid where they are holding the Summer Games two years earlier ... apparently SLC don't think they match up against the likes of Sapporo

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/salt-lake-city-eyes-2034-olympics-after-sapporo-bid-for-2030

 

[Booville]

4 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Canada is still probably licking their wounds from how the Calgary 2026 bid fell apart.  Not a smart idea going up against Salt Lake and a United State bid.  Somewhere down the line, Vancouver will probably be a good bet for another Olympics in Canada.  But not 2030.  And using St. Mortiz 1948 isn't a great example.  That was the first post-WW2 Olympics and it was awarded to Switzerland on the basis of them being a neutral country through the war.

and the 1948 Summer Olympics went to London which was not exactly a neutral country in WW2

[Nacre]

7 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

Canada is still probably licking their wounds from how the Calgary 2026 bid fell apart.  Not a smart idea going up against Salt Lake and a United State bid.  Somewhere down the line, Vancouver will probably be a good bet for another Olympics in Canada.  But not 2030.  And using St. Mortiz 1948 isn't a great example.  That was the first post-WW2 Olympics and it was awarded to Switzerland on the basis of them being a neutral country through the war.

The problem wasn't the Canadian government's support, but rather the local government support in Calgary.

Unfortunately the Canadian economy has taken a beating recently, so the national government may not be as supportive of a bid in the near future.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Nacre

[Quaker2001]

11 hours ago, Booville said:

A United States bid where they are holding the Summer Games two years earlier ... apparently SLC don't think they match up against the likes of Sapporo

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/salt-lake-city-eyes-2034-olympics-after-sapporo-bid-for-2030

7 hours ago, Booville said:

and the 1948 Summer Olympics went to London which was not exactly a neutral country in WW2

It's less about matching up against Sapporo and more about better timing for the USOPC (not to mention 2034 will be the first Olympics of the new TV contracts, so that could be better for the IOC as well).  That said.. let's see what the appetite is for a Winter Olympics in Japan after what it's going to cost them for 2020 2021.  Either way, hard to envision the next Winter Olympics in North American anywhere other than Salt Lake.  Is Vancouver really in a rush to get themselves another Olympics so soon?

4 hours ago, Nacre said:

The problem wasn't the Canadian government's support, but rather the local government support in Calgary.

Unfortunately the Canadian economy has taken a beating recently, so the national government may not be as supportive of a bid in the near future.

That's everyone's economy at this point.  At some point, Vancouver will likely put up another bid.  Don't see that being so soon as 2030

[Booville]

2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said:

It's less about matching up against Sapporo and more about better timing for the USOPC (not to mention 2034 will be the first Olympics of the new TV contracts, so that could be better for the IOC as well).  That said.. let's see what the appetite is for a Winter Olympics in Japan after what it's going to cost them for 2020 2021.  Either way, hard to envision the next Winter Olympics in North American anywhere other than Salt Lake.  Is Vancouver really in a rush to get themselves another Olympics so soon?

That's everyone's economy at this point.  At some point, Vancouver will likely put up another bid.  Don't see that being so soon as 2030

The argument for Vancouver would be like this - IMO

1. Most of the facilities used previously that would be reused again would in 2030 need only minor upgrades - add another 12-30 years and we are talking major upgrades or new builds

2. Money has already been set aside for some of the community centres that could be used - they are likely to be built whether a bid happened or not, but a Games could allow for better facilities that might otherwise be built (hence public support?)

3. The big social issue in Vancouver is affordable housing/social housing - building a village for 3000+ athletes/coaches etc - convertible after the games would be a step towards alleviating this

4. and of course, the cost of hosting the games, like for Salt Lake City, will be much reduced because some of the more expensive facilities are already in place

As a comparison and correct me if there are new plans I don't know of

Ceremonies:   Vancouver - BC Place (updated since 2010) Ceremonies 54,500                     SLC - Rice Eccles 45,807

Hockey 1:        Vancouver - GM Place 18,630                                                                                  SLC - Maverick Center 10,100

Hockey 2:        Vancouver - UBC Arena 7,200 (currently 5,000?) so slight upgrade needed    SLC - Peaks Area 8,400 (currently 2,300) (i)

Figure:             Vancouver - Pacific Coliseum 14,239 (upgrade required)                                    SLC - Vivint Smart Arena 17,500

Curling:            Vancouver - Hillcrest Centre 6,000 (a)                                                                     SLC - Ice Sheet at Ogden 2,000 (ii)

Speed:             Vancouver - Richmond Oval 8,000 (b)                                                                      SLC - Olympic Oval 6,500 (currently 3,000) (iii)

From a pure infrastructure perspective both candidates would need to upgrade some of their facilities. For Vancouver, a couple of main arenas need some upgrade but the main issues would be (a) which could be replaced by a new arena in Newton or the existing Langley Events Centre (5,276) whilst (b) could be replaced by the proposed Surrey Community Centre. For SLC, (i) would need a very large capacity increase whilst (ii) and (iii) would require significant capacity increases. All other venues appear in good working order

If Vancouver enter v SLC, from a technical perspective it is really 50-50

 

 

 

 

[Quaker2001]

The argument for Salt Lake would be like this..

That is all.

This is not a competition won on technical merit.  You're right that it's pretty even on that basis.  And I don't think Vancouver can play the "most of our facilities will get old in another 10 years" card saying that 2030 is their time.  Plus, as you noted, one of the big hurdles for Vancouver would be the matter of the Olympic Village, and their 2010 efforts on that one weren't exactly a highlight of the organizing committee.

[TorchbearerSydney]

The US Govt is spending over $2,000,000,000,000 (thats 2 trillion) in stimulus spending. Other countries (by proportion) even more.

A Winter Olympics at a couple of billion is a cheap and effective economic stimulus for a region. (Just another way to frame the cost as an opportunity)

[Nacre]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:50 PM, Booville said:

3. The big social issue in Vancouver is affordable housing/social housing - building a village for 3000+ athletes/coaches etc - convertible after the games would be a step towards alleviating this

Warning: rant ahead.

The problem is that the very act of building lots of nice condos leads to gentrification and higher prices. This is what happened in London after the 2012 Olympics, for example.

https://www.huckmag.com/perspectives/reportage-2/the-battle-to-save-east-london-is-this-finally-the-end/

Vancouver is expensive because it has a thriving economy and is a place where people want to live. Price = Demand / Supply. Housing isn't exactly cheap in Paris or Tokyo either. People who want cheap housing should consider moving to Detroit. I have a cousin who bought a mansion in Detroit for $50,000.

On 4/5/2020 at 9:21 PM, Quaker2001 said:

That's everyone's economy at this point.  At some point, Vancouver will likely put up another bid.  Don't see that being so soon as 2030

The Canadian economy is more dependent on commodities exports than the economies of the USA or EU, and thus have less ability to stimulate demand for their own products. (Australia is similar, but their exports are a bit less volatile.) So I think it will be harder for Canada to recover than the US or EU. I could be wrong, though.

[Quaker2001]

On 4/7/2020 at 5:35 PM, Nacre said:

Warning: rant ahead.

The problem is that the very act of building lots of nice condos leads to gentrification and higher prices. This is what happened in London after the 2012 Olympics, for example.

https://www.huckmag.com/perspectives/reportage-2/the-battle-to-save-east-london-is-this-finally-the-end/

Vancouver is expensive because it has a thriving economy and is a place where people want to live. Price = Demand / Supply. Housing isn't exactly cheap in Paris or Tokyo either. People who want cheap housing should consider moving to Detroit. I have a cousin who bought a mansion in Detroit for $50,000.

Barcelona experienced something similar.  As much as it is the golden standard for an Olympics meshing with economic revival, a lot of long-time locals were never happy because it turned the city into something of a tourist trap after a wave of gentrification, which as always is a double-edged sword.

Dropping a ton of housing onto a city can have its benefits, but also its drawbacks as well.

[Nacre]

My personal idea for solving this is to create "volunteer housing". Build housing with low rent that is contingent upon the resident volunteering in the community. (Coaching youth sports, tending to city gardens, litter cleanup teams, etc.) That solves the problems of social housing stigma, free riders, people subletting or renting on airbnb, and speculative housing investment.

[stryker]

I'm not so sure Sapporo is a sure thing anymore. With the billions of dollars having to be shelled out by Tokyo along with a recession, I have doubts whether there will be the finances or political will to go through with a bid from Sapporo. 

As for Vancouver, it's a matter of when, not if, they host again. Given the skepticism still surrounding the IOC and its reforms, I could see the IOC going back-to-back WOGs in North America. A good selling point for Vancouver could be making the city the permanent training home for winter sports in Canada (I suspect in the near future the sliding track in Calgary will be shut down just as WinSport's Ski Jump was). Vancouver's venues would need some touch up but outside of an Olympic Village there's no need for any new venues. Langley Events Centre could host curling and with the IOC's flexibility on venues, it would be far cheaper for a Vancouver bid to propose using the Olympic Oval in Calgary (if Calgary's bid could propose using Vancouver's ski jumps then Vancouver can do the same with the speed skating oval). 

[Quaker2001]

10 hours ago, stryker said:

I'm not so sure Sapporo is a sure thing anymore. With the billions of dollars having to be shelled out by Tokyo along with a recession, I have doubts whether there will be the finances or political will to go through with a bid from Sapporo. 

As for Vancouver, it's a matter of when, not if, they host again. Given the skepticism still surrounding the IOC and its reforms, I could see the IOC going back-to-back WOGs in North America. A good selling point for Vancouver could be making the city the permanent training home for winter sports in Canada (I suspect in the near future the sliding track in Calgary will be shut down just as WinSport's Ski Jump was). Vancouver's venues would need some touch up but outside of an Olympic Village there's no need for any new venues. Langley Events Centre could host curling and with the IOC's flexibility on venues, it would be far cheaper for a Vancouver bid to propose using the Olympic Oval in Calgary (if Calgary's bid could propose using Vancouver's ski jumps then Vancouver can do the same with the speed skating oval). 

We won't know what's up with Sapporo until late next year, and yes, it's very possible they won't want to bid for 2030, especially if things go less than swimmingly for Tokyo.

I agree on Vancouver.. they'll likely be the next city in Canada to host another Olympics.  I'm still skeptical they'll go after 2030, but it's certainly possible they'll throw their hat in the ring, particularly if Salt Lake is targeting 2034.  Still, don't minimize the Olympic Village factor.  That's the kind of major urban planning initiative that may determine whether or not there's an appetite to bid in the first place.

[stryker]

On 4/18/2020 at 8:01 PM, Quaker2001 said:

We won't know what's up with Sapporo until late next year, and yes, it's very possible they won't want to bid for 2030, especially if things go less than swimmingly for Tokyo.

I agree on Vancouver.. they'll likely be the next city in Canada to host another Olympics.  I'm still skeptical they'll go after 2030, but it's certainly possible they'll throw their hat in the ring, particularly if Salt Lake is targeting 2034.  Still, don't minimize the Olympic Village factor.  That's the kind of major urban planning initiative that may determine whether or not there's an appetite to bid in the first place.

If the Tokyo Olympics get cancelled because COVID19 is still an issue in the summer of next year that will be an unprecedented financial loss with all the construction and logistics for Japan. IMO that would be more than enough for a Sapporo bid to be dead on arrival. Suddenly 2030 is wide open. 

[Quaker2001]

8 hours ago, stryker said:

If the Tokyo Olympics get cancelled because COVID19 is still an issue in the summer of next year that will be an unprecedented financial loss with all the construction and logistics for Japan. IMO that would be more than enough for a Sapporo bid to be dead on arrival. Suddenly 2030 is wide open. 

Potentially, but I don't know if that's an invitation for Vancouver to waltz in knowing Salt Lake is still out there.  They'll need to start getting ready for that sooner rather than later.  I don't think they are well served to just drop into the race in mid to late 2021 following a cancelled Olympics.  The bigger question is how will the IOC handle that massive slice of humble pie, particularly with an Olympics in China to follow

[AjayLopez25List]

On 9/3/2019 at 11:35 AM, Quaker2001 said:

Might also have had a little something to do with the fact that Japan is already hosting an Olympics and bidding for another one (especially when that other one is having budget issues) probably wouldn't be the smartest idea.

I think Sapporo will bid for 2030.  SLC is the obviously front-runner, but I have a feeling the IOC will encourage Sapporo to give the appearance of a competition and then if nothing else, it gives them a leg up for 2034.

It is official Sapporo is in the game of bidding with Salt Lake for 2030 olympics (winter games) and Barcelona is rumored they to compete in the bid and Ukraine but no city selected as thier representative host for bidding for winter olympics

[Quaker2001]

2 minutes ago, AjayLopez25List said:

It is official Sapporo is in the game of bidding with Salt Lake for 2030 olympics (winter games) and Barcelona is rumored they to compete in the bid and Ukraine but no city selected as thier representative host for bidding for winter olympics

You're replying to a post from September.  A couple of things have happened with the world since then that perhaps might affect whether or not Sapporo is in the game for 2030.

[AjayLopez25List]

Salt Lake 2030 and Sapporo 2030 are officially competiyors for the bid to host the winter olympics, also Barcelone would like to bid too and Ukraine would like to compete the bid too but they no representative city yet..

But I like to see to bid are the loser cities like Almaty or Stockholm another shot for bidding to host the winter olympic games in thier respective cities

[AjayLopez25List]

6 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

You're replying to a post from September.  A couple of things have happened with the world since then that perhaps might affect whether or not Sapporo is in the game for 2030.

So.. it doesn't matter.. this is a forum website, we all can reply even the comment will be like 2 years ago.. 2030 it is long time from this recent year that time Covid-2019 will be no more

[Quaker2001]

25 minutes ago, AjayLopez25List said:

So.. it doesn't matter.. this is a forum website, we all can reply even the comment will be like 2 years ago.. 2030 it is long time from this recent year that time Covid-2019 will be no more

I don't care you're replying to an old comment, but it's missing the point completely to lose the point of reference when that comment is made.  Yes, Sapporo said they're interested in bidding.  That was before the 2020 Olympics got postponed by a year and will cost Japan a huge sum of money.  And it's far from a guarantee that next summer will go off so smoothly.

So add all that up together and are we confident Sapporo is going to bid for the 2030 Olympics?  Because now it's going to be a year later that they are done with Tokyo and a lot more money spent, so they may have reservations about spending billions more on another Olympics when a lot of Japanese citizens aren't so sure they want the first one to happen.

[George_D]

is there any chance for Munich or Olso to try again?