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2030 Olympic Winter Games Bids

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On 9/7/2019 at 12:10 AM, Quaker2001 said:

I get that there's not much to talk about here these days since we're likely 4 years away from the next Olympic host being determined.  And that there's not that much news to be consumed.  It is what it is.  The funny thing for me is that I love the Olympics a lot more than I love Olympic bidding, but there aren't exactly a lot of forums out there like this.  If someone wants to point me to somewhere where they actually treat the Olympics as more than "2 ceremonies and some filler in between" or "let's spend a week analyzing their choice of a color palette for their logo", please let me know!

www.reddit.com/r/olympics/

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7 hours ago, Tulsa said:

 

I imagine Geneva/Chamonix/Annecy :lol: but impossible. .

France is capable of hosting a WOGs on its own but there'd have to be an anchor city like Lyon, Marseille, or Nice. Switzerland is in the same boat, but much like Austria, it would have to be a country-wide bid. In terms of joint bids, the new rules could finally open up a Helsinki bid with maybe Are in Sweden for the alpine events (anyone remember their 2006 joint bid with Lillehammer?) While a joint bid might be viable, it's hard to see it winning in 2030 against a compact and moderately cost bid from Salt Lake or Sapporo.

While we're on the subject, while Calgary crashed out of the 2026 race and the sliding track in WinSport at risk of closure, maybe Vancouver gives it another go the next time Canada wants a WOGs though I doubt for 2030.

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3 hours ago, stryker said:

France is capable of hosting a WOGs on its own but there'd have to be an anchor city like Lyon, Marseille, or Nice. Switzerland is in the same boat, but much like Austria, it would have to be a country-wide bid. In terms of joint bids, the new rules could finally open up a Helsinki bid with maybe Are in Sweden for the alpine events (anyone remember their 2006 joint bid with Lillehammer?) While a joint bid might be viable, it's hard to see it winning in 2030 against a compact and moderately cost bid from Salt Lake or Sapporo.

While we're on the subject, while Calgary crashed out of the 2026 race and the sliding track in WinSport at risk of closure, maybe Vancouver gives it another go the next time Canada wants a WOGs though I doubt for 2030.

They have to know they have virtually no shot up against SLC.  Probably not worth the fight.  Hold off and then maybe try again a few years down the line.

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2030 is SLC to lose, with Sapporo looking like the a strong favorite for 2034.  Theyll have their fancy little train thats so important done by then.  Maybe 2038 we can have our fun little Almaty dream; they might be more economically (and hopefully democratically) ready by then.......maybe.

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On 9/6/2019 at 6:51 PM, Olympianfan said:

I wonder if Thomas Bach is in talks with the Mayor of Munich in getting a bid from Munich Germany to host the 2030 Winter Games as a nice legacy from his years of being the IOC President to Germany, The 2032 Summer Games is very likely to go to Asia either Shanghai China or Jakarta Indonesia.

With Milan Italy having the 2026 Winter Games could bod well for a Munich Germany 2030 bid Things could cool down and could go down well if they have venues in Garmish-Partenkirchen and in Innsbruck Austria if they want to save the cost in building venues and let's hope in a few years time the anti Olympic movement cools down in Europe let's hope for a great outcome from the Tokyo Japan 2020 Summer Games.

Milan - Cortina Italy 2026

Munich Germany - Innsbruck 2030

Dieter Reiter, Munich‘s mayor, has a tough local election to fight next year. He wouldn‘t touch an Olympic bid with a bargepole now.

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On 9/6/2019 at 10:10 AM, Quaker2001 said:

There was a certain "other" poster here that was rooting hard for that, if nothing else just to rub it in my face that I said it wouldn't happen.  Thus is the craptasticness of this website.  It was one thing when once upon a time you had American posters and Canadians posters fighting with each other, but at least there was some substance behind it.  In contrast with "I'm going to make an argument to oppose you for the sake of being a contrarian because me.. like.. trolling!"

I get that there's not much to talk about here these days since we're likely 4 years away from the next Olympic host being determined.  And that there's not that much news to be consumed.  It is what it is.  The funny thing for me is that I love the Olympics a lot more than I love Olympic bidding, but there aren't exactly a lot of forums out there like this.  If someone wants to point me to somewhere where they actually treat the Olympics as more than "2 ceremonies and some filler in between" or "let's spend a week analyzing their choice of a color palette for their logo", please let me know!

https://totallympics.com/

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I think those people saying that 2030 is SLCs to lose are being over confident. 

After all, it will be only 2years since LA2028, and I cannot ever recall two games (Summer & Winter) being held in the same country in such close proximity of time. With Sapporo it will be 10years since Tokyo2020 though the appetite for these games might diminish if the costs of Tokyo are to be believed.

The romantic attachment (if this is to be believed) that the IOC have for Lillehammer will make them a very strong contender maybe without some of the issues that SLC and Sapporo might have. Sapporo will have a lot of work to do to build some of the venues required or expand the footprint of the games to include some of Nagano's facilities such as the bobsleigh run.

SLC vs Lillehammer makes an interesting comparison. Unless there is a plan to replace the Vivint Smart Home Arena, the Committee would need to significantly increase the size of the Peaks Ice Arena (2,300 seats) and/or the Ice Sheet at Ogden (2,000 seats) to get to the minimum arena capacity standards though a temporary option could be built. Otherwise, SLC is good to go. For Lillehammer, a similar situation exists with a single larger arena required to meet the IOC's standard if the Hamar Olympic Arena cannot be expanded, and Pyeonchang has already shown the way with a large temporary solution for the ceremonies.

I would also not rule out a bid from a central European country like Austria with a combined Salzburg-Innsbruck being offered. Again, whilst the more challenging to justify facilities exist - jumping hills, bobsleigh run - the lack of suitably sized arenas is a problem, though two largish cities could justify a conference facility (speed skating) and a larger sized arena, if not creatively using one of their football stadiums as a temporary solution

 

 

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Sapporo arent bidding until their new beloved High speed rail is done, and that got delayed past 2030.  2034 looks nice for them.  

Austria had a nice bid (in theory) with Graz.  If it was gonna happen for Austria, that was it.  

Lillehammer is a possibility, sure.  But even then, I have a hard time believing the IOC passes up the red meat that SLC throws at them.  

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Having been there now, I would’ve thought that if a bid with Milan & Cortina together is ok for the IOC, then Austria could actually have a bid with indoor events in Vienna & skiing in the main alpine areas around Salzburg & Innsbruck. Before the 2026 process, it probably wouldn’t have been plausible but now that they seem fine with Winter Games held at opposite ends of a country, stuff like that could be possible - & I can’t imagine they’d struggle to find a market for a new arena or 2, plus a few thousand flats in Vienna. 

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On 9/21/2019 at 8:54 AM, Booville said:

I think those people saying that 2030 is SLCs to lose are being over confident. 

After all, it will be only 2years since LA2028, and I cannot ever recall two games (Summer & Winter) being held in the same country in such close proximity of time. With Sapporo it will be 10years since Tokyo2020 though the appetite for these games might diminish if the costs of Tokyo are to be believed.

The romantic attachment (if this is to be believed) that the IOC have for Lillehammer will make them a very strong contender maybe without some of the issues that SLC and Sapporo might have. Sapporo will have a lot of work to do to build some of the venues required or expand the footprint of the games to include some of Nagano's facilities such as the bobsleigh run.

SLC vs Lillehammer makes an interesting comparison. Unless there is a plan to replace the Vivint Smart Home Arena, the Committee would need to significantly increase the size of the Peaks Ice Arena (2,300 seats) and/or the Ice Sheet at Ogden (2,000 seats) to get to the minimum arena capacity standards though a temporary option could be built. Otherwise, SLC is good to go. For Lillehammer, a similar situation exists with a single larger arena required to meet the IOC's standard if the Hamar Olympic Arena cannot be expanded, and Pyeonchang has already shown the way with a large temporary solution for the ceremonies.

I would also not rule out a bid from a central European country like Austria with a combined Salzburg-Innsbruck being offered. Again, whilst the more challenging to justify facilities exist - jumping hills, bobsleigh run - the lack of suitably sized arenas is a problem, though two largish cities could justify a conference facility (speed skating) and a larger sized arena, if not creatively using one of their football stadiums as a temporary solution

When Nagano won the 1998 Olympics, Salt Lake was 2nd in the voting behind them and only lost by a handful of votes.  All it would have taken was 3 voters to flip and Salt Lake would have hosted less than 2 years after Atlanta.  So it almost happened once.  No reason to think it couldn't happen again.

I don't think it's over-confidence to say 2030 is SLC's to lose.  If they bid, there's a pretty good chance they'd win.  Who would beat them?  The IOC isn't in a position to be romantic.  If they were, they would have taken a chance on Stockholm.

SLC versus Lillehammer is no contest.  Lillehammer hosted an Olympics without women's hockey, without curling, and without freestyle skiing or snowboarding.  SLC in 2002 had all of those things.  So if it's those 2 against each other, SLC will likely win that contest easily.

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On 9/21/2019 at 6:54 PM, yoshi said:

Having been there now, I would’ve thought that if a bid with Milan & Cortina together is ok for the IOC, then Austria could actually have a bid with indoor events in Vienna & skiing in the main alpine areas around Salzburg & Innsbruck. Before the 2026 process, it probably wouldn’t have been plausible but now that they seem fine with Winter Games held at opposite ends of a country, stuff like that could be possible - & I can’t imagine they’d struggle to find a market for a new arena or 2, plus a few thousand flats in Vienna. 

The question still needs to be less "is it possible" and more "is it practical."  We'll see if any other European cities/countries take a page from Milan/Cortina and suggest something more spread out.  That we have this once doesn't mean the IOC is suddenly fine with these things.  It's all a matter of comparison.  To say nothing of the fact they would need to propose it first and they might not do that in the first place unless there's a sensible plan behind it.

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Quote

Pyrenees-Barcelona 2030 Builds Public Support
Reported by Miguel Hernandez
23/09/19

lnmadcw1.uqr.jpg

Camp Nou, home of FC Barcelona could be the 2030 ceremonies venue. (FCB)

(ATR) A bid for the 2030 Winter Olympics and Paralympics depends on political unity say Spanish Olympic leaders.


Without that concord the Pyrenees-Barcelona 2030 candidacy for the Winter Olympics will “freeze” say IOC vice president Juan Antonio Samaranch and Spanish Olympic Committee Alejandro Blanco.

The two men delivered similar messages last week at an event aimed at building support in the private and civil sectors for the Olympic project started three years ago.

The event in the main auditorium of FC Barcelona, was organized by Sport Cultura Barcelona, an institution for the promotion of culture and sports. The meeting brought together representatives of the main sports, cultural and economic associations of Barcelona that have issued their support.

No high-ranking political figures were invited to the meeting.

"It was a powerful act," Gerard Figueras, spokesman for the new Olympic initiative told Around the Rings. "We wanted to show that Catalan civil society provided its support without any politician from any institution or party," he says.

"It was a very thoughtful decision," says Figueras.

In his appearance Blanco said "civil society has made an approach to the political powers to organize a Games based on understanding, respect, dialogue and integration."

"It is what society asks for and what the Spanish Olympic Committee wants, in order to make this dream, which is the winter Olympic Games, come true," he said.

reufrflg.tbn.jpg

Samaranch said that there are real possibilities to organize the Games because the project "has everything and only the
political unity is missing. Politicians must agree to want these Games."

Samaranch also referred to the new approach of the IOC in the process for choosing future Olympic venues, one of the items on the agenda of the IOC Executive Board Oct. 3 in Lausanne.

With the new rules, there might not even be a choice.

"The IOC no longer grants a franchise to make a Games, as before, but seeks a constant dialogue," Samaranch said.

In this regard, he says designation of the 2030 Winter Games should take place in 2023 “but if the IOC sees that there is an organized force, it will not wait to grant them”.

Pyrenees-Barcelona 2030 is one of three locales with serious plans in the works to bid for a 2030 Olympics. Salt Lake City, aiming for an encore from 2002 is one of them. Sapporo, 1972 host, is the other.

Backers of the Catalan initiative say the political climate over the separatist movement from Spain does not affect the Olympic project.

According to Figueras, who is the general secretary of sports of the Government of Catalonia, the formalization of the candidacy will be made to the IOC after the new general elections in Spain Nov. 10.

In Figueras' opinion, the Olympic project "surpasses political ideology" and therefore can be defended by any president without distinction of political color.

Figueras said that on the basis of the IOC 2020 Agenda, the candidacy is “sustainable” and that “technically, it is ready”.

Josep Maria Bartomeu, president of FC Barcelona, opened the conference with a generous offer from the football club. He declared that Camp Nou stadium, with room for 100,000 spectators, is available as the venue for opening or closing ceremonies.

ATR

 

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On 9/21/2019 at 4:54 PM, Booville said:

I think those people saying that 2030 is SLCs to lose are being over confident. 

After all, it will be only 2years since LA2028, and I cannot ever recall two games (Summer & Winter) being held in the same country in such close proximity of time. With Sapporo it will be 10years since Tokyo2020 though the appetite for these games might diminish if the costs of Tokyo are to be believed.

The romantic attachment (if this is to be believed) that the IOC have for Lillehammer will make them a very strong contender maybe without some of the issues that SLC and Sapporo might have. Sapporo will have a lot of work to do to build some of the venues required or expand the footprint of the games to include some of Nagano's facilities such as the bobsleigh run.

SLC vs Lillehammer makes an interesting comparison. Unless there is a plan to replace the Vivint Smart Home Arena, the Committee would need to significantly increase the size of the Peaks Ice Arena (2,300 seats) and/or the Ice Sheet at Ogden (2,000 seats) to get to the minimum arena capacity standards though a temporary option could be built. Otherwise, SLC is good to go. For Lillehammer, a similar situation exists with a single larger arena required to meet the IOC's standard if the Hamar Olympic Arena cannot be expanded, and Pyeonchang has already shown the way with a large temporary solution for the ceremonies.

I would also not rule out a bid from a central European country like Austria with a combined Salzburg-Innsbruck being offered. Again, whilst the more challenging to justify facilities exist - jumping hills, bobsleigh run - the lack of suitably sized arenas is a problem, though two largish cities could justify a conference facility (speed skating) and a larger sized arena, if not creatively using one of their football stadiums as a temporary solution

 

 

I wouldn't say it's overconfidence as it is as much as a lack of options and the need for a stable bid with little in the way of infrastructure spending to try and  restore confidence in bidding for the WOGs. Salt Lake mirrors L.A.'s bid for the SOGs. SLC has almost everything in place. Vivint Smart Home Arena is getting a renovation. The commuter and light rail lines are being expanded as is the airport. The oval and ski jump stadium would need only minor touch ups. The only outstanding venues needed are a secondary ice hockey arena, curling arena (I think the Ice Sheet at Ogden or Peaks could host curling with their capacities) and an Olympic Village as I don't know if either the University of Utah or Brigham Young University would need additional on-campus housing.

Lillehammer is a no go by itself. It's too small to host on its own. The city would have to partner with Oslo, but I have doubts that you will see a Norway bid anytime soon after the fallout when Oslo withdrew from the 2022 race and the IOC's scathing reaction. Austria with Vienna would be credible. The whole Barcelona-Pyrenees idea seems to crop up every year or so (as it has again) but it never seems to gain any traction and would require a huge amount of investment  for the ski and sliding events.

Salt Lake City has most of what is already needed for a WOGs and it is a compact bid. It's a win-win.

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Ah Barcelona again.

I don't know.  I much rather another summer Games from them or Madrid.  Maybe Lisbon?  I just can't equate Spain with winter sports.  I know they have mountains but... eh.  It's a stretch.

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12 hours ago, thatsnotmypuppy said:

Ah Barcelona again.

I don't know.  I much rather another summer Games from them or Madrid.  Maybe Lisbon?  I just can't equate Spain with winter sports.  I know they have mountains but... eh.  It's a stretch.

This is why I'd question the long term legacy of a Barcelona WOGs. IMO, it's an interesting idea in theory, but long term, given that Spain is not a winter sports power, would a ski jumping complex, speed skating oval, or a sliding track really get that much use. I'm sure you'd see a small uptick in winter sports participation but I doubt it would be enough to justify the cost and upkeep. I can remember where I saw it last, might have been insidethegames but I remember an article from earlier this year that discussed a tri-nations winter bid between Spain, Andorra, and France. Not many details but I would've assumed that Barcelona would have been the ice cluster, skiing in Andorra, with the sliding and ski jumping events in France. Great way of making use of existing infrastructure, as I mentioned earlier, why go to all that trouble logistically when France could host the entire event on its own. Definitely think long term a SOGs is the way to go for Spain.

 

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7 hours ago, stryker said:

I can remember where I saw it last, might have been insidethegames but I remember an article from earlier this year that discussed a tri-nations winter bid between Spain, Andorra, and France. Not many details but I would've assumed that Barcelona would have been the ice cluster, skiing in Andorra, with the sliding and ski jumping events in France. Great way of making use of existing infrastructure, as I mentioned earlier, why go to all that trouble logistically when France could host the entire event on its own. Definitely think long term a SOGs is the way to go for Spain.

 

I think we touched on this in one of the long gone fantasy bid competitions.  I think the general concensus was the distance was prohibitive (700+km from Barcelona to Albertville, 800+ km from Andorra la Vella to Albertville) however that doesn't seem to be a huge issue these days.  Yes - Milan to Cortina is half of these distances - however the IOC may be open to this plan to show they are serious about legacy.

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8 hours ago, thatsnotmypuppy said:

I think we touched on this in one of the long gone fantasy bid competitions.  I think the general concensus was the distance was prohibitive (700+km from Barcelona to Albertville, 800+ km from Andorra la Vella to Albertville) however that doesn't seem to be a huge issue these days.  Yes - Milan to Cortina is half of these distances - however the IOC may be open to this plan to show they are serious about legacy.

 

I suppose it's a possibility given today's bidding environment and perhaps CNOSF might see co-hosting as a way of keeping costs down rather than a solo French bid with let's say Lyon, Grenoble, and Albertville.

 

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On 9/23/2019 at 3:45 AM, Quaker2001 said:

When Nagano won the 1998 Olympics, Salt Lake was 2nd in the voting behind them and only lost by a handful of votes.  All it would have taken was 3 voters to flip and Salt Lake would have hosted less than 2 years after Atlanta.  So it almost happened once.  No reason to think it couldn't happen again.

I don't think it's over-confidence to say 2030 is SLC's to lose.  If they bid, there's a pretty good chance they'd win.  Who would beat them?  The IOC isn't in a position to be romantic.  If they were, they would have taken a chance on Stockholm.

SLC versus Lillehammer is no contest.  Lillehammer hosted an Olympics without women's hockey, without curling, and without freestyle skiing or snowboarding.  SLC in 2002 had all of those things.  So if it's those 2 against each other, SLC will likely win that contest easily.

For Lillehammer to add those additional sports would be minimal ... Kanthaugen hosted freestyle skiing and half-pipe, and Hafjell the slopestyle in 2016, the curling already has a purpose built arena and there is likely to be enough capacity to host additional women's hockey games

A games encompassing the true spirit of the games vs a games forever tainted by bribery ... clearly an easy call

 

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On 9/23/2019 at 3:45 AM, Quaker2001 said:

When Nagano won the 1998 Olympics, Salt Lake was 2nd in the voting behind them and only lost by a handful of votes.  All it would have taken was 3 voters to flip and Salt Lake would have hosted less than 2 years after Atlanta.  So it almost happened once.  No reason to think it couldn't happen again.

I don't think it's over-confidence to say 2030 is SLC's to lose.  If they bid, there's a pretty good chance they'd win.  Who would beat them?  The IOC isn't in a position to be romantic.  If they were, they would have taken a chance on Stockholm.

SLC versus Lillehammer is no contest.  Lillehammer hosted an Olympics without women's hockey, without curling, and without freestyle skiing or snowboarding.  SLC in 2002 had all of those things.  So if it's those 2 against each other, SLC will likely win that contest easily.

and of course in 1998, SLC almost went out in R1 and had to win a run off with Aosta

After that, the assistance of a few brown envelopes aided the closeness with Nagano

They learnt their lesson in 2002 ... bigger brown envelopes from the start

 

 

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On 10/12/2019 at 12:01 AM, Booville said:

For Lillehammer to add those additional sports would be minimal ... Kanthaugen hosted freestyle skiing and half-pipe, and Hafjell the slopestyle in 2016, the curling already has a purpose built arena and there is likely to be enough capacity to host additional women's hockey games

A games encompassing the true spirit of the games vs a games forever tainted by bribery ... clearly an easy call

 

Lillehammer does not have a second 10.000+ arena needed for an Olympics and it would be ridiculous for them to build one. Hakons Hall and the Olympic Amphitheatre could host ice hockey at capacities of 10,500 and 7,000 respectively.  Gjovik at a smaller capacity of 5,000 could host curling. Oslo already has an indoor arena, a much newer one at that, in Telenor Arena for figure skating and short track (this was the proposed venue for the respective sports in Oslo's aborted 2022 bid). The WOGs have grown in massive size since 1994. Beyond just venues, Lillehammer does not have the transportation infrastructure that Oslo has to handle a WOGs on its own. Then there's the matter of an Olympic Village. I'd imagine Oslo would be much more in need of public housing in a post-Olympics than Lillehammer would.

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Now that you mention it, I kind of like the idea of Lyon as well. It was a great host city for the 2019 WWC Semi Finals and Final, so it would be great to see the city host the ceremonies and indoor events, with the alpine events further out from the city. But I'm gonna have to go with SLC or even Denver for 2030 - least problematic, could rake in loads of money, and the IOC may not want to lean Central Europe after immediately doing that.

 

Wonder if at any point someone will step up and say that a 2026 World Cup, 2028 Summer Olympics, and 2030 Winter Olympics is too much for the USA. I feel like it won't happen, because the USA hasn't played host to a major world tournament since the 2003 Women's World Cup, so an entire generation hasn't been able to cheer on Team USA at home, but 2028/30 are far from now - who knows what the political and social situation of the USA will be.

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On 10/11/2019 at 4:01 PM, Booville said:

For Lillehammer to add those additional sports would be minimal ... Kanthaugen hosted freestyle skiing and half-pipe, and Hafjell the slopestyle in 2016, the curling already has a purpose built arena and there is likely to be enough capacity to host additional women's hockey games

A games encompassing the true spirit of the games vs a games forever tainted by bribery ... clearly an easy call

On 10/11/2019 at 4:14 PM, Booville said:

and of course in 1998, SLC almost went out in R1 and had to win a run off with Aosta

After that, the assistance of a few brown envelopes aided the closeness with Nagano

They learnt their lesson in 2002 ... bigger brown envelopes from the start

Ahh yes, this old tired narrative again.

No.. the 2002 Olympics were not tainted by bribery.  The bid was.  But I was there in Salt Lake the entire month of February.  The Games went off without a hitch and the IOC would be overjoyed to head back there with all the American sponsorship dollars that came along with it.  No one cared at that point how Salt Lake got the Olympics because they were a more than deserving and worthy candidate.  That Salt Lake struggled for votes for 1998.. again, perhaps that had something to do with the fact that vote came less than a year after Atlanta had won for 1996 and the IOC wasn't chomping at the bit to return there.  And when they won 2002, is it maybe just possible that they won because they actually had the best bid?  Regardless of what steps they went to in order to ensure a win.

As for Lillehammer.. yes, they hosted an extraordinarily memorable Olympics back in 1994.  But this is 2030 we're talking about.  There could be close to double the number of athletes and double the number of events there were last time.  1994 didn't have 3 disciplines of curling and 2 full hockey tournaments to manage.  That's why it was Oslo's bid in 2022, with Lillehammer as the secondary city.  It needs to be that way again.  And I feel very confident that if the IOC has to choose between Salt Lake and Lillehammer, then Salt Lake is going to win that one.

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