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baron-pierreIV

Which one will win and what is the vote difference?

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I'd actually like to see an Amsterdam-Oslo-Lillehammer winter bid in the future.  I think that combo would be beautiful and unbeatable!! 

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57 minutes ago, Quaker2001 said:

Are has hosted a World Alpine Championships before.  Pretty sure they could figure out hosting the Alpine events from an Olympics without busing everyone from Stockholm

The Olympics have way more VIP's, NOC officials, media personnel, corporate sponsors, fans, etc. It's not taking care of the athletes and the competition that is the problem, it is the various hangers-on that are problematic.

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29 minutes ago, Nacre said:

The Olympics have way more VIP's, NOC officials, media personnel, corporate sponsors, fans, etc. It's not taking care of the athletes and the competition that is the problem, it is the various hangers-on that are problematic.

Östersund is a 1-hour train journey away from Åre by train; with that Åre probably had enough accommodation for spectators and workforce. (Östersund also has a perfectly functional ski stadium for biathlon, which arguably should have been used in this bid and was the backup in case the Stockholm proposal did not come through.) They tried to put as much in Stockholm as possible when they arguably should have embraced the four cluster concept more. They also should have done more detail on the transport plan between clusters -- where were the Stockholm-Åre sleeper trains for spectators?

In the end this bid failed mostly because the Swedes were not ruthless enough. The Milanese elite have wanted an Olympics for decades, to step out of Rome's shadow; in Sweden the Swedish Olympic Committee (SOK) wants a games but the politicians were lukewarm. Some here are right--they should have stayed the course for 2022, and once the politicians got cold feet then SOK should have done a campaign once the politicians got cold feet to build public support. It's strange at how "old school" Milan Cortina's successful bid was in the end. The poor report from the evaluation commission did not help, particularly with the financial holes. The IOC is an international elite that wants to know that it's franchise is in safe hands, and Sweden failed to provide that. I think they should have another go, but they need to learn from their seven failures and actually sell themselves, not say "trust us", New Norm or not.

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Normally I wouldn't want to say the press conference will be dealbreaker, but damn, Stockholm didn't ever try. I wonder if some of the dubious voters watched that conference and said: "Hell no". 

That reminds me 2012 race when Paris was the favourite but London won. Paris had the best bid (Best technical qualification, narrative), but the lobbying was just messy (And then Chirac's comments on Finnish food). On the other hand, you have London, creating a proper exciting bid around the youth and olympic movement with Blair on board. The difference was, Paris learnt that lesson and went to create a different bid for 2024, now with Macron and Hidalgo on board. Using the same mastermind behind that campaign. In Tokyo, you had a normally serious Abe in a humanistic face related to a bid which can work as catarsis of a catastrophe. Or Rio and Pyeongchang as the cinderellas. 

Beyond the technical aspects, as was mentioned before, is about "selling themselves" and Italy lived for that. Milan was always expecting to shine alone over Rome and created an opportunity with an old seawolf like Magallo. Sure, the Swedish government was in negotiations; but the lack of confidence per government came before the elections and let's not forget Milan is currently a bright spot of the mainstream PD in antagonism over the current italian government with La Lega and M5S on coalition (That bid made possible three opposite parties working together). 

Also, I believe the Swedes looked like "amateurs" while promoting the event? The dilligence over the SOK was there, but between the government's lack of response, relative low approval by audiences and relevant holes related to financing and logistics were enough obstacles. Comparing Magallo, Richard Brisius failed so bad in that aspect (Off topic: he looked so regal in that conference).

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14 minutes ago, Roger87 said:

Normally I wouldn't want to say the press conference will be dealbreaker, but damn, Stockholm didn't ever try. I wonder if some of the dubious voters watched that conference and said: "Hell no". 

That reminds me 2012 race when Paris was the favourite but London won. Paris had the best bid (Best technical qualification, narrative), but the lobbying was just messy (And then Chirac's comments on Finnish food). On the other hand, you have London, creating a proper exciting bid around the youth and olympic movement with Blair on board.

Yeah, that’s a very interesting analysis, Roger. And you’re probably right on the money with that in the end.

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1 minute ago, FYI said:

Yeah, that’s a very interesting analysis, Roger. And you’re probably right on the money with that in the end.

That's why Paris learnt that lesson with the 2024 bid.

Also, I remember Chirac and Delanoë (The French mayor at that time) despised each other, even if Alain Juppé (Chirac's right hand) admired Delanoë (Had Juppé became President instead Sarkozy, he would invite Delanoë as part of the government, but that's another story). That's not the way happened with Macron and Hidalgo (Even with their own differences, both worked together for the bid. Even Valerie Plescesse -The governor of Ile-de-France- worked with them). Ironically that's the same thing Sala (Milan's mayor and PD politician) worked with Giuseppe Conte and (gasp) Matteo Salvini for that bid (That bid was capable to unite 3 antagonic parties). That aspect is key for the city-nation relations and gave the image of political unity for the bid.

 

Löfven (The Swedish Prime Minister) did a good job  considering the circumstances, but the "rebel mayor" of Anna Könin Jermyr was really damaging for that image of unity.

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8 hours ago, Roger87 said:

, but the "rebel mayor" of Anna Könin Jermyr was really damaging for that image of unity.

Especially in (my) and the IOC voter's mind -- comparing her to the other "Anne" mayor -- Hidalgo of Paris; who was heaping praise and adulation on the IOC voters' egos, this Anne (with a bad hair tint job no less (the roots were showing), didn't even correct her fatal faux pas of the non-signing of the all-important Host City contract.  

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Milan-Cortina was an interesting bid with the Ceremonies held in different venues.

Cortina hosted the 1956 Winter Olympics and Milan has never hosted and Olympics yet  

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54 minutes ago, BigVic said:

Milan-Cortina was an interesting bid with the Ceremonies held in different venues.

Cortina hosted the 1956 Winter Olympics and Milan has never hosted and Olympics yet  

I hope they dump that plan and have all 4 ceremonies at San Siro Stadium they can have another 235,000 more ticket sales for the ceremonies if they have it all at San Siro Stadium.  

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Odd day yesterday:

First thing: AC and Inter announce they'll be in a new stadium for 2022 and San Siro will be demolished
Later on: the Mayor says no to any new stadium before 2026
Then: Milan wins the bid

Sounds like there's going to be a bit of a battle of wills about what happens and when.

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39 minutes ago, Rob. said:

Odd day yesterday:

First thing: AC and Inter announce they'll be in a new stadium for 2022 and San Siro will be demolished
Later on: the Mayor says no to any new stadium before 2026
Then: Milan wins the bid

Sounds like there's going to be a bit of a battle of wills about what happens and when.

They might do what BC Place in Vancouver did the last ever events at the old BC Place Stadium were the Vancouver 2010 ceremonies before changing it all up after the 2010 Winter Games. 

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Doing the closing ceremony in Verona sounds like a cool idea but it could also be a logistical mess (also it would make more sense if the closing is done in Cortina, which is the actual co-host of these games). I have a feel they might dump these ideas in the end and make the ceremonies at either the old San Siro or whichever new stadium they decide to build.

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1 hour ago, Ikarus360 said:

Doing the closing ceremony in Verona sounds like a cool idea but it could also be a logistical mess (also it would make more sense if the closing is done in Cortina, which is the actual co-host of these games). I have a feel they might dump these ideas in the end and make the ceremonies at either the old San Siro or whichever new stadium they decide to build.

Doing Closing in Verona is insane.  They will think this through and Verona's not going to happen.  

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Yeah I thought that was pretty nuts. Verona is nothing to do with these games - it’s hosting nothing else. Opening in Milan, closing in Cortina would surely be most sensible. 

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11 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Especially in (my) and the IOC voter's mind -- comparing her to the other "Anne" mayor -- Hidalgo of Paris; who was heaping praise and adulation on the IOC voters' egos, this Anne (with a bad hair tint job no less (the roots were showing), didn't even correct her fatal faux pas of the non-signing of the all-important Host City contract.  

Also Karin Wanngard (Stockholm mayor between 2014-2018) who actually was the first one who said "Nope, Stockholm is out" even with the SOK begging and showing interest :D 

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1 hour ago, mountainboarder_530@yahoo. said:

Hellas Verona will be building a new stadium.

So what?  There is NO ATHLETES' VILLAGE in Verona.  The main villages are in Milano and Cortina.  

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Rumor has it, Italy is also preparing a Euro UEFA bid. Verona would be part of the host cities (It was part of the 1990 FIFA World Cup plan).

"Surprising" ("" for irony) the M5S agrees on these events lol.

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Well, it's been quite a while since they had their last major tournament and their stadium infrastructure could actually need an upgrade. With England or Spain probably going for the World Cup, the next Euro is up for grabs.

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I wrote this elsewhere but it make sense posting this here as well:

Quote

I'm surprised that Gothenburg was not considered instead of Stockholm: it has three ice arenas, a speed skating oval, a nearby world cup cross-country course, and is about the same distance from Lillehammer as from Falun. If they tried not to build anything new except the Olympic Village they may have a concept. The IOC after these reforms has a choice about becoming more like FIFA or continuing the openness begun after the Salt Lake City scandal. I don't think Salt Lake is a sure thing for 2030, and this might just work if the Swedes were willing.

Sweden lost because it mishandled the politics, failing to realise that the IOC knew Winter Games were fragile and wanted reassurance, not to be treated as if the IOC "needed" them more than the other way round. There was also no story to Stockholm other than the "never hosted" one--which Rio 2016 pretty much ended as a playable card. (Gothenburg is 400 years old in 2021 and is staging a multi-year celebration, which could have been a story.) I hope that they pick themselves up and try and try again until they win, just like Pyeongchang.

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